The Truth about Mormons

[JoLouis]

Shitspeaker, I don't doubt that Africans are some of the most intelligent people you know!!!!

Jake, Africans are more intelligent than Americans? You bet!

Avatar, what's it like to have your whole life be an epic fail?

 

[Avatar4321]

Shitspeaker, I don't doubt that Africans are some of the most intelligent people you know!!!!

Jake, Africans are more intelligent than Americans? You bet!

Avatar, what's it like to have your whole life be an epic fail?

You and I must define Epic fail much differently.

 

[LANMaster]

I voted Christian, though I do not believe the title fits your faith.

I have several Mormon friends. All of whom are respectable and good citizens.
I voted for Mitt Romney in the '08 primary.
So please know that I consider Mormons good people of a warm and friendly faith.

But Jesus is Jehova. I am concerned that your faith is based on a guy (Joseph Smith) that could not be anything short of a total lunatic.
Of course some might say that of Jesus Christ Himself, but I believe the King James Bible account. I believe that Jesus Christ IS God, Himself. ... just as Jesus said He was..

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider you a friend.

We also consider Jesus to be JEHOVAH. That may have just rocked your world

Amen! Perhaps I am confusing your faith with another. Apologies if that is the case.

 

[LANMaster]

I voted Christian, though I do not believe the title fits your faith.

I have several Mormon friends. All of whom are respectable and good citizens.
I voted for Mitt Romney in the '08 primary.
So please know that I consider Mormons good people of a warm and friendly faith.

But Jesus is Jehova. I am concerned that your faith is based on a guy (Joseph Smith) that could not be anything short of a total lunatic.
Of course some might say that of Jesus Christ Himself, but I believe the King James Bible account. I believe that Jesus Christ IS God, Himself. ... just as Jesus said He was..

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider you a friend.

How does Joseph Smith telling people that Jesus is Jehovah and that he has seen Him make Joseph a total lunatic or deny that Jesus is who He said He was?

Okay .... you have opened up a can of worms that I had hoped would not be.
Joseph Smith's telling that Jesus is Jehova, or even seeing Jesus Christ does not make him a kook, IMHO. But there are many other actions of his that do, which bring all of his outlandish claims into question.

If you would like for me to lay them all out for you here, I will. But I do not think that is productive for either of us. I did not post here in this thread to start a religious whizzing match. Indeed, I compliment your faith, and the people in it.
I was merely responding to post #1 in this thread, as I am new. I am sure that I have missed the vast bulk of discussion in here.

Just wait till I get started on Catholicism!

 

[LANMaster]

Almost every Mormon, whether LDS or FLDS or whatever, have been neat people. That their faith is not "the one true gospel" is immaterial.

I can live with that.

 

[JoLouis]

If mormonism is the true gospel, then why do you have to go door to door trying to convince people? Seems to me that if your god is there and so great, it wouldn't need anyone to go door to door trying to convince people of its existence.

 

[LANMaster]

I think the Gospel is the true Gospel.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I voted Christian, though I do not believe the title fits your faith.

I have several Mormon friends. All of whom are respectable and good citizens.
I voted for Mitt Romney in the '08 primary.
So please know that I consider Mormons good people of a warm and friendly faith.

But Jesus is Jehova. I am concerned that your faith is based on a guy (Joseph Smith) that could not be anything short of a total lunatic.
Of course some might say that of Jesus Christ Himself, but I believe the King James Bible account. I believe that Jesus Christ IS God, Himself. ... just as Jesus said He was..

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't consider you a friend.

How does Joseph Smith telling people that Jesus is Jehovah and that he has seen Him make Joseph a total lunatic or deny that Jesus is who He said He was?

Okay .... you have opened up a can of worms that I had hoped would not be.
Joseph Smith's telling that Jesus is Jehova, or even seeing Jesus Christ does not make him a kook, IMHO. But there are many other actions of his that do, which bring all of his outlandish claims into question.

If you would like for me to lay them all out for you here, I will. But I do not think that is productive for either of us. I did not post here in this thread to start a religious whizzing match. Indeed, I compliment your faith, and the people in it.
I was merely responding to post #1 in this thread, as I am new. I am sure that I have missed the vast bulk of discussion in here.

Just wait till I get started on Catholicism!

Well this discussion has been going strong for a year and a half now. I doubt that you could bring up much about Joseph Smith that hasn't already been discussed ad nauseum. But I would welcome a friendly discussion on the matter for a change rather than the usual bozo know-it-all who comes in here thinking he knows everything about "Mormons", Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon despite not actually being a member of the church.

As you get to know me better I don't combat people on their beliefs. Only instruct as to what our ACTUAL beliefs are. You can get the difference between myth and fact from me regarding "Mormonism".

And let's not get started on Catholicism. It would be a total waste of time and useless knowledge of their faulty doctrine and traditions in my opinion.

 

[Truthspeaker]

If mormonism is the true gospel, then why do you have to go door to door trying to convince people? Seems to me that if your god is there and so great, it wouldn't need anyone to go door to door trying to convince people of its existence.

This idea of yours has been brought up before. Indeed, God can do all things for us if he felt like it. But that's the big test in life, to see if we will do and act for ourselves. What will we choose? What will we do? Will we obey the commandment to spread the gospel throughout the world.

You may think we're delusional but that is the reasoning behind preaching door to door or in any other way.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I think the Gospel is the true Gospel.

The Gospel is the good news of Christ and his redemption. People make up their own minds which version of the news to watch. Just like CNN or FOX. Certainly one station is better than the other, the key is not what somebody else tells you but what the Spirit of God tells you in your heart.

 

[LANMaster]

How does Joseph Smith telling people that Jesus is Jehovah and that he has seen Him make Joseph a total lunatic or deny that Jesus is who He said He was?

Okay .... you have opened up a can of worms that I had hoped would not be.
Joseph Smith's telling that Jesus is Jehova, or even seeing Jesus Christ does not make him a kook, IMHO. But there are many other actions of his that do, which bring all of his outlandish claims into question.

If you would like for me to lay them all out for you here, I will. But I do not think that is productive for either of us. I did not post here in this thread to start a religious whizzing match. Indeed, I compliment your faith, and the people in it.
I was merely responding to post #1 in this thread, as I am new. I am sure that I have missed the vast bulk of discussion in here.

Just wait till I get started on Catholicism!

Well this discussion has been going strong for a year and a half now. I doubt that you could bring up much about Joseph Smith that hasn't already been discussed ad nauseum. But I would welcome a friendly discussion on the matter for a change rather than the usual bozo know-it-all who comes in here thinking he knows everything about "Mormons", Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon despite not actually being a member of the church.

As you get to know me better I don't combat people on their beliefs. Only instruct as to what our ACTUAL beliefs are. You can get the difference between myth and fact from me regarding "Mormonism".

And let's not get started on Catholicism. It would be a total waste of time and useless knowledge of their faulty doctrine and traditions in my opinion.

Sounds good. And it is a pleasure to meet you.

I expect that you know a lot more about Mormonism than I do.

So perhaps you can tell me if the following are true, false, out of context or misleading about the faith; I am not disrespecting your faith. Please do not get that impression.
These are some of the things that I have read about Mormonism, and I would like to know if they are accurate, out of context, or perhaps dead wrong.

• Is it true that your faith teaches that Jesus was married? Perhaps to multiple women?
• Is it true that your faith proclaims that we can all become Gods?
• Is it true that Mormons believe that there are 4 inspired words of God, and not just the Bible?
• Is it true that Mormons believe that God the Father has not always been the one supreme being in the universe, but that God attained that status through righteous living?
• Is it true that Mormons believe there are differing levels of heaven based on how one lives his life?
• Is is true that Mormons think that Jesus was created by Mary having a sexual relationship with God?
• Do Mormons believe that salvation can be attained by works or deeds?
• Do Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God?
• Do Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are Brothers????
• Do Mormons believe that spiritual death can only be avoided through works?

I do not pretend to know very much about Mormonism, and I certainly expect to find that some of the things listed above are utterly ridiculous, so please pardon my ignorance on the subject.

cheers.

 

[Avatar4321]

Okay .... you have opened up a can of worms that I had hoped would not be.
Joseph Smith's telling that Jesus is Jehova, or even seeing Jesus Christ does not make him a kook, IMHO. But there are many other actions of his that do, which bring all of his outlandish claims into question.

If you would like for me to lay them all out for you here, I will. But I do not think that is productive for either of us. I did not post here in this thread to start a religious whizzing match. Indeed, I compliment your faith, and the people in it.
I was merely responding to post #1 in this thread, as I am new. I am sure that I have missed the vast bulk of discussion in here.

Just wait till I get started on Catholicism!

I wasn't trying to open a can of worms. Just trying to have conversation. I love it. It's a discussion I like having. And I don't blame you for not believing Joseph, He said on occasions that if hadn't lived through everything himself, he wouldn't believe himself.

I appreciate your compliments. I am not trying to make enemies.

 

[Liability]

Can of worms June bump!

 

[Avatar4321]

Sounds good. And it is a pleasure to meet you.

I expect that you know a lot more about Mormonism than I do.

I'm not TS and can't speak for him or to your knowledge base, But id be happy to answer any of your questions.

So perhaps you can tell me if the following are true, false, out of context or misleading about the faith; I am not disrespecting your faith. Please do not get that impression.
These are some of the things that I have read about Mormonism, and I would like to know if they are accurate, out of context, or perhaps dead wrong.

Ill try to help

[*]Is it true that your faith teaches that Jesus was married? Perhaps to multiple women?

The answer is, we don't know. There is and has been some speculation to that end. I don't know if Christ was married. Or to whom. But it makes sense that if Christ fullfilled all righteousness and kept all the commandments of His father, that He would have fulfilled the commandment to cleave unto one's wife and multiply and replenish the earth, which is that first commandment given to man, even before the commandment not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good or evil.

But as we have no direct revelation to the point, it's just speculation.

[*]Is it true that your faith proclaims that we can all become Gods?

Of course, this is what the Bible teaches. The scriptures are clear that those who recieve the word are gods. Christ himself used it to argue for His Divinity (Ps 82:6;John 10:32-39). Paul mentioned in Romans that we are Joint Heirs with Christ and will recieve all the Father has along with Christ. Peter stated that we have been called to be partakers of the Divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). John spoke in Revelation about the righteous recieving thrones and dominions. He also spoke in one of his Epistles about what we will be when Christ comes:

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3, emphasis added)

The Atonement is meant to cleanse us, to purify us, to empower us to become like Christ. and What is Christ if He is not God?

In addition to what is found in the Bible, we have other revelations that flesh a few more details out. Not much. But everything there is to understand better is good.

The Early Church Fathers, who wrote after the death of the Original Apostles, spoke of the doctrine of Deification. It's common in Christianity anciently and some modern sources mention it in passing. CS Lewis mentioned it in Mere Christianity. Orthodox and some Catholics acknowledge it. And some protestants acknowledge it too. Though I am not sure how many. I've never done a survey.

[*]Is it true that Mormons believe that there are 4 inspired words of God, and not just the Bible?

I think our 9th article of faith sums that question up nicely:

We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God

We don't believe God is done speaking with the world. We don't believe that He has changed his methods and is now silent in the world. Quite the opposite. We boldly proclaim that God speaks to man. That all men may learn for themselves from God the truth He revealed, that He lives, cares for them. Man must live off more than bread alone, but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

[*]Is it true that Mormons believe that God the Father has not always been the one supreme being in the universe, but that God attained that status through righteous living?

Honestly, we don't know enough about God the Father's mortal existance. Little has been revealed. We just know that He has a body of Flesh and blood and that Christ learned how to do the things He did by watching His Father.

Man and God aren't some foreign species. We are the same species. We just are in the early stages of our Development.

[*]Is it true that Mormons believe there are differing levels of heaven based on how one lives his life?

Christ said there were many mansions in His Father's House. Paul pointed out different we are resurrected in different levels of glory. John saw the final judgment where we were judged by our works and who we had become.

However, the limited knowledge have concerning it comes in modern revelation found here:

Doctrine and Covenants 76

[*]Is is true that Mormons think that Jesus was created by Mary having a sexual relationship with God?

No. We believe that Mary was a Virgin when she concieved and when she gave birth as the scriptures say. We also believe that God the Father literally is the Father of Jesus Christ.

There have been many who try to take obsure quotes out of context to say otherwise. But they have to infer a sexual relation and ignore all the quotes that say the exact opposite. I think there are just some who like sensationalizing things and have their own minds in the gutter.

[*]Do Mormons believe that salvation can be attained by works or deeds?

No. We can only be saved through the merits of Jesus Christ.

[*]Do Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God?

Yes. He was.

[*]Do Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are Brothers????

We believe that everyone are brothers and sisters. We lived with God before the world was and that we are literally His children in the Spirit. Christ was among us. Satan was among us before his rebellion and fall. Job mentions Satan being among the sons of God.

[*]Do Mormons believe that spiritual death can only be avoided through works?

No. Spiritual death can only be overcome with the Atonement of Jesus Christ. We enter into a covenant relationship with Him and use that gift He has freely given to become born again of the Spirit. And we grow line upon line, precept upon precept, through the mercy of the Lord.

I do not pretend to know very much about Mormonism, and I certainly expect to find that some of the things listed above are utterly ridiculous, so please pardon my ignorance on the subject.

cheers.

Some are. Others are only ridiculous outside of the true context. Context is everything. Words mean something. There is nothing to be ashamed of with ignorance. But we all must make a choice to remain in ignorance or learn. I am glad you are following the other.

 

[LANMaster]

Avatar .... I truly want to thank you for candidly and honestly answering my questions. I do not agree with many of those things that you affirmed, but I am now less ignorant about your faith since you took the time to answer point by point.

Sincere thanks. Green rep points to ya!

 

[JoLouis]

If mormonism is the true gospel, then why do you have to go door to door trying to convince people? Seems to me that if your god is there and so great, it wouldn't need anyone to go door to door trying to convince people of its existence.

This idea of yours has been brought up before. Indeed, God can do all things for us if he felt like it. But that's the big test in life, to see if we will do and act for ourselves. What will we choose? What will we do? Will we obey the commandment to spread the gospel throughout the world.

You may think we're delusional but that is the reasoning behind preaching door to door or in any other way.

Delusional is thinking that some invisible god you've never seen tells you to spread some bogus message. ... Oh wait, that's you!

 

[Liability]

The religiously biased, bigoted and narrow-minded (like JoLu) have been drawn to this thread. Funny stuff.

A nearly at 4000 bump!

 

[HUGGY]

The religiously biased, bigoted and narrow-minded (like JoLu) have been drawn to this thread. Funny stuff.

A nearly at 4000 bump!

I thought jackals only came out after dark! Isn't it 7:38 PM in NY?

 

[Avatar4321]

Delusional is thinking that some invisible god you've never seen tells you to spread some bogus message. ... Oh wait, that's you!

And what is bogus about it? Why is it you have to resort to ridicule instead of actual intelligent arguments?

And what is wrong with being honest, humble, faithful, patient, full of love, kindness, etc?

 

[Avatar4321]

4000