The Truth about Mormons

[Liability]

4000

BRAVO!

Now we're into the five thousands.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Delusional is thinking that some invisible god you've never seen tells you to spread some bogus message. ... Oh wait, that's you!

And what is bogus about it? Why is it you have to resort to ridicule instead of actual intelligent arguments?

And what is wrong with being honest, humble, faithful, patient, full of love, kindness, etc?

I have know Christians, Muslims, Jews, and other faiths and no faiths that are like this.

And no question exists that Atheism requires more Faith than a believer.

 

[JoLouis]

Delusional is thinking that some invisible god you've never seen tells you to spread some bogus message. ... Oh wait, that's you!

And what is bogus about it? Why is it you have to resort to ridicule instead of actual intelligent arguments?

And what is wrong with being honest, humble, faithful, patient, full of love, kindness, etc?

What's bogus about my comments? Your god is invisible and no one has ever seen it. And, sorry to say, but the mormon message is one of the most whacked out theories out there. Golden plates, mythical planets like kolob, Joseph Smith seemed to be a complete donkey...

Nothing wrong with honesty... What's your point? Non-mormons can't be nice?

I'm agnostic, atheists are just as bad a religioners, they're convinced of something that they have no hope of proving.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Delusional is thinking that some invisible god you've never seen tells you to spread some bogus message. ... Oh wait, that's you!

And what is bogus about it? Why is it you have to resort to ridicule instead of actual intelligent arguments?

And what is wrong with being honest, humble, faithful, patient, full of love, kindness, etc?

What's bogus about my comments? Your god is invisible and no one has ever seen it. And, sorry to say, but the mormon message is one of the most whacked out theories out there. Golden plates, mythical planets like kolob, Joseph Smith seemed to be a complete donkey...

Nothing wrong with honesty... What's your point? Non-mormons can't be nice?

I'm agnostic, atheists are just as bad a religioners, they're convinced of something that they have no hope of proving.

Simply not true as I recall God has shown himself several times to mortal men. Further when one prays in honesty one gets an answer. It may not be the answer they were looking for but they will get an answer.

People of faith know God exists. They know it because he answers their prayers. They know it because they have felt his presence. They know it because they have been shown the way. Further everyone knows it because Jesus WAS seen by many people. His resurrection witnessed by many. His word listened to and accepted by billions over the years.

One need only honestly seek to accept Jesus as their savior and believe in God and they will know as well. People convert because they do these things and get the answer from God himself.

I am a convert. I prayed for guidance and was shown the way to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I know that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and that he restored the true Church on Earth.

I seldom attend services and am probably a "jack" Mormon but I still know to this day 31 years later that these things are true. I know because God let me know. I know because Jesus let me know. I know because I prayed and was answered.

All one need be is honest and pray for an answer.

Having said all that, I do not believe that what man run church you belong to matters. God requires that you accept Jesus as your savior and be baptized in his name. That is the requirement to be saved. We are all sinners and will always be beset by sin and temptation. The key is to not PRACTICE sin. So long as one does not practice sin one can be forgiven. Ones works matter as well.

 

[JakeStarkey]

RGS, that is a great testimony. I believe you don't understand the relation of election, sanctification, and justification, but you don't have to because you have taken Jesus as your savior. I believe you don't understand the relation of the atonement, crucifixion, and the resurrection, but you don't have to because you have taken Jesus as your savior. Truthspeaker and Avatar row in the same boat with you, and it's a good place to be.

 

[JoLouis]

God has shown himself to mortal men? Like who?
Thinking that god answers your prayers and talks to you is delusional. I mean, like, you're not (hopefully) hurting anyone, so everything is still good, but you live in a fantasy world. And as long as you all stay pretty much in Utah, nobody is really going to give a fuck about what you think or how many beehive women you marry anyways.
I could probably POSSIBLY agree that a guy named Jesus existed and was all preachy in everyone face, but the earliest accounts from the bible were written around 300 year or so after the facts, so who really knows what happened? Maybe he was even gay?

 

[Liability]

God has shown himself to mortal men? Like who?
Thinking that god answers your prayers and talks to you is delusional. I mean, like, you're not (hopefully) hurting anyone, so everything is still good, but you live in a fantasy world. And as long as you all stay pretty much in Utah, nobody is really going to give a fuck about what you think or how many beehive women you marry anyways.
I could probably POSSIBLY agree that a guy named Jesus existed and was all preachy in everyone face, but the earliest accounts from the bible were written around 300 year or so after the facts, so who really knows what happened? Maybe he was even gay?

YoLoser:

Your scholarship is seriously suspect. Many church accounts have the original Gospels being written by some of Jesus' disciples (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). They were contemporaries, obviously, of the Jesus. And they didn't live for hundreds of years. Ergo, they first Gospels were probably written within the first century of the life of Jesus. See, for example: Who wrote the Gospels and When are the Gospels written

 

[RetiredGySgt]

God has shown himself to mortal men? Like who?
Thinking that god answers your prayers and talks to you is delusional. I mean, like, you're not (hopefully) hurting anyone, so everything is still good, but you live in a fantasy world. And as long as you all stay pretty much in Utah, nobody is really going to give a fuck about what you think or how many beehive women you marry anyways.
I could probably POSSIBLY agree that a guy named Jesus existed and was all preachy in everyone face, but the earliest accounts from the bible were written around 300 year or so after the facts, so who really knows what happened? Maybe he was even gay?

Believing in prayer and that God answers prayers is not delusional. No where did I say God spoke to me either. Believing that the vast majority of the people on this planet are delusional is , well, delusional.

By the way? The Mormon church put an end to Polygamy in 1890. You might want to actually learn something about a group you are going to make outrageous claims about. Further more MOST Mormons do NOT live in Utah.

 

[JoLouis]

Liability: I'm talking about carbon dating the documents involved, it's been done. Not some suspect "church accounts" that deduces whatever. Stop being so gullible and open your eyes.
So Sarge, you have no examples of Himself showing Himself to mortal men? Then why say it?
Praying is relatively harmless, go for it. But to think that someone is answering you back is delusional. That most of the world thinks like that only shows what a little way we've come as a species since the caveman.
Sorry Holmes, but Utah still has polygamists who are mormons. The National Geographic did a cover story on it not long ago.

 

[Liability]

Liability: I'm talking about carbon dating the documents involved, it's been done. Not some suspect "church accounts" that deduces whatever. Stop being so gullible and open your eyes.
So Sarge, you have no examples of Himself showing Himself to mortal men? Then why say it?
Praying is relatively harmless, go for it. But to think that someone is answering you back is delusional. That most of the world thinks like that only shows what a little way we've come as a species since the caveman.
Sorry Holmes, but Utah still has polygamists who are mormons. The National Geographic did a cover story on it not long ago.

Carbon dating SOME documents is not the same as carbon dating the documents, SoLow.

Stop being such an asswipe and open your mind.

 

[JoLouis]

Your the foolish one, do you really think that if anything was written by Paul... that they wouldn't let anyone carbon date it to help prove its provenance?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Sounds good. And it is a pleasure to meet you.

\
Likewise

I expect that you know a lot more about Mormonism than I do.

I sure hope so

So perhaps you can tell me if the following are true, false, out of context or misleading about the faith; I am not disrespecting your faith. Please do not get that impression.
These are some of the things that I have read about Mormonism, and I would like to know if they are accurate, out of context, or perhaps dead wrong.

Finally someone looking for the truth instead of a bible bash

• 
  

  [*]Is it true that your faith teaches that Jesus was married?

  Yes. If you would like an explanation for any of these short answers I would be happy to oblige.
  

  Perhaps to multiple women?

  probably. Either way is fine by me.
  

  [*]Is it true that your faith proclaims that we can all become Gods?

  Yes
  

  [*]Is it true that Mormons believe that there are 4 inspired words of God, and not just the Bible?

  No. Although almost true. We believe that when a someone speaks by the power of the Holy Ghost they are as inspired as scripture. Consequently when someone writes under said authority it also becomes like scripture. The official cannon of Scripture for our church are The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pear of Great Price. But the word of God is not limited to such things alone.
  
  
  

  [*]Is it true that Mormons believe that God the Father has not always been the one supreme being in the universe, but that God attained that status through righteous living?

  Yes.
  

  [*]Is it true that Mormons believe there are differing levels of heaven based on how one lives his life?

  Yes
  

  [*]Is is true that Mormons think that Jesus was created by Mary having a sexual relationship with God?

  Absolutely NO
  
  

  [*]Do Mormons believe that salvation can be attained by works or deeds?

  No. Jesus chooses to save those with his grace who try their hardest.
  
  

  [*]Do Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God?

  Yes
  
  

  [*]Do Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are Brothers????

  Yes. Everyone has the same relationship with Jesus and Satan. Brothers or sisters, children of God from the premortal life.
  
  

  [*]Do Mormons believe that spiritual death can only be avoided through works?

No. Grace of Christ required.

I do not pretend to know very much about Mormonism, and I certainly expect to find that some of the things listed above are utterly ridiculous, so please pardon my ignorance on the subject.

On the contrary. You have heard much. All are incredibly valid questions and not ridiculous in the least. Thank you for having the stones to ask.

cheers.

Root Beer!

 

[Liability]

Your the foolish one, do you really think that if anything was written by Paul... that they wouldn't let anyone carbon date it to help prove its provenance?

MoLoser:

You seem to believe that your baseless assertions carry any weight.

In that, of course, you're wrong.

Other than the fact that you have a mighty high opinion of your own opinions, you seem both unwilling and/or unable to back up what you spew.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Truthspeaker has done a much better job in answering questions than usual; however, two corrections to his answers are made below.

Quote: # Is is true that Mormons think that Jesus was created by Mary having a sexual relationship with God? Absolutely NO Research this to discover the General Authorities who believed this in the 19th century. The Journal of Discourse is a good place to begin. You will find a good site on line.

Quote: # Do Mormons believe that salvation can be attained by works or deeds? No. Jesus chooses to save those with his grace who try their hardest. Understand that LDS do not understand accurately the principles of justification, sanctification, election in relationship to good works.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Delusional is thinking that some invisible god you've never seen tells you to spread some bogus message. ... Oh wait, that's you!

And what is bogus about it? Why is it you have to resort to ridicule instead of actual intelligent arguments?

And what is wrong with being honest, humble, faithful, patient, full of love, kindness, etc?

What's bogus about my comments? Your god is invisible and no one has ever seen it. And, sorry to say, but the mormon message is one of the most whacked out theories out there. Golden plates, mythical planets like kolob, Joseph Smith seemed to be a complete donkey...

Nothing wrong with honesty... What's your point? Non-mormons can't be nice?

I'm agnostic, atheists are just as bad a religioners, they're convinced of something that they have no hope of proving.

Well Jo, to each their own. You keep believing what you want to believe and I'll keep my faith. So what point are you trying to drive home? What is your purpose on this thread?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Truthspeaker has done a much better job in answering questions than usual; however, two corrections to his answers are made below.

Quote: # Is is true that Mormons think that Jesus was created by Mary having a sexual relationship with God? Absolutely NO Research this to discover the General Authorities who believed this in the 19th century. The Journal of Discourse is a good place to begin. You will find a good site on line.

Quote: # Do Mormons believe that salvation can be attained by works or deeds? No. Jesus chooses to save those with his grace who try their hardest. Understand that LDS do not understand accurately the principles of justification, sanctification, election in relationship to good works.

Sorry Jake, but I'll do the correcting of my own religion.
Just because you think that people in the Journal of Discourses said that Jesus was conceived of a sexual encounter between God and Mary doesn't mean that it is authoritative. Leaders have made erroneous statements before. Hence they are human. I don't care who said it, The Bible and the Book of Mormon are clear on the issue. Mary was a VIRGIN. Mary would not be a virgin if God impregnated her with physical sex. It is impossible. The impregnation occured by the power of the Holy Ghost descending on her womb and for lack of a better word "magically" unified the egg and the sperm to form a child. While there is no such thing as real magic, all things that would appear to be so are done by the laws of the universe with the elements of the universe, most of which we don't understand.

btw, the journal of discourses needs to be read with guidance of the spirit of God. It is not doctrine. Much of it is doctrine, much of it is speculation on issues which at the time had not been revealed.


As to your belief on salvation it is nothing but an assertion that you think your faith is better than ours. We'll see at the last day.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You, Truthspeaker, are making erroneous statements. Let folks read what your Apostles and Seventies from the past have said. You are not authoritative, you speak your mind and nothing else. You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[JoLouis]

Truthspeaker has done a much better job in answering questions than usual; however, two corrections to his answers are made below.

Quote: # Is is true that Mormons think that Jesus was created by Mary having a sexual relationship with God? Absolutely NO Research this to discover the General Authorities who believed this in the 19th century. The Journal of Discourse is a good place to begin. You will find a good site on line.

Quote: # Do Mormons believe that salvation can be attained by works or deeds? No. Jesus chooses to save those with his grace who try their hardest. Understand that LDS do not understand accurately the principles of justification, sanctification, election in relationship to good works.

Sorry Jake, but I'll do the correcting of my own religion.
Just because you think that people in the Journal of Discourses said that Jesus was conceived of a sexual encounter between God and Mary doesn't mean that it is authoritative. Leaders have made erroneous statements before. Hence they are human. I don't care who said it, The Bible and the Book of Mormon are clear on the issue. Mary was a VIRGIN. Mary would not be a virgin if God impregnated her with physical sex. It is impossible. The impregnation occured by the power of the Holy Ghost descending on her womb and for lack of a better word "magically" unified the egg and the sperm to form a child. While there is no such thing as real magic, all things that would appear to be so are done by the laws of the universe with the elements of the universe, most of which we don't understand.

btw, the journal of discourses needs to be read with guidance of the spirit of God. It is not doctrine. Much of it is doctrine, much of it is speculation on issues which at the time had not been revealed.


As to your belief on salvation it is nothing but an assertion that you think your faith is better than ours. We'll see at the last day.

Did you guys ever consider that Jesus' father might have prematurely ejaculated just before penetrating Mary and some of the semen got into her?
(And no, this is not from personal experience like some of you are dying to say, lol)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Truthspeaker has done a much better job in answering questions than usual; however, two corrections to his answers are made below.

Quote: # Is is true that Mormons think that Jesus was created by Mary having a sexual relationship with God? Absolutely NO Research this to discover the General Authorities who believed this in the 19th century. The Journal of Discourse is a good place to begin. You will find a good site on line.

Quote: # Do Mormons believe that salvation can be attained by works or deeds? No. Jesus chooses to save those with his grace who try their hardest. Understand that LDS do not understand accurately the principles of justification, sanctification, election in relationship to good works.

Sorry Jake, but I'll do the correcting of my own religion.
Just because you think that people in the Journal of Discourses said that Jesus was conceived of a sexual encounter between God and Mary doesn't mean that it is authoritative. Leaders have made erroneous statements before. Hence they are human. I don't care who said it, The Bible and the Book of Mormon are clear on the issue. Mary was a VIRGIN. Mary would not be a virgin if God impregnated her with physical sex. It is impossible. The impregnation occured by the power of the Holy Ghost descending on her womb and for lack of a better word "magically" unified the egg and the sperm to form a child. While there is no such thing as real magic, all things that would appear to be so are done by the laws of the universe with the elements of the universe, most of which we don't understand.

btw, the journal of discourses needs to be read with guidance of the spirit of God. It is not doctrine. Much of it is doctrine, much of it is speculation on issues which at the time had not been revealed.


As to your belief on salvation it is nothing but an assertion that you think your faith is better than ours. We'll see at the last day.

Did you guys ever consider that Jesus' father might have prematurely ejaculated just before penetrating Mary and some of the semen got into her?
(And no, this is not from personal experience like some of you are dying to say, lol)

Did you ever think your an idiot?

 

[Truthspeaker]

You, Truthspeaker, are making erroneous statements. Let folks read what your Apostles and Seventies from the past have said. You are not authoritative, you speak your mind and nothing else. You are entitled to your opinion.

Our prophets and apostles have spoken and already said the same thing about the Journal of Discourses. Where do you think I got the idea from? The Journal of Discourses has known errors in it. Some things were taught as doctrine but then proven as nothing more than speculation after later revelations. sorry Jake,
I am brushed up on my doctrine.