The Truth about Mormons

[JoLouis]

Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jo, you are mistaking religious institutions (organized churches) as supposedly authoritative in God's word. They are not, merely help sakes. Many make this mistake in Christianity, but that does not invalidate their belief in the Christ.

Why are you concerned with nonessentials?

 

[JoLouis]

Jake, so the pope, the dalai lama, muslims, the bible and the book of mormons et al are all full of shit and don't really represent god?

 

[Liability]

I have studied the Bible intensely for more than five decades. I love it, its stories, its timeliness and its "timelessness". The story of the Prodigal Son has always been my favorite. So, quietly and gently, LANMaster, I suggest you apply your talents and your humility in studying the Book of Mormon carefully as well. You will find truth in it that is timeless and timely. God reveals as He will to those He desires in His own ways.

It is not every day I agree with old Jake here. But if I can paraphrase my understanding of what he's just said: it is possible that God tolerates (or encourages) the creation of different religions to provide people with different opportunities to "come to God" via words and thinking they can grasp and to which they might be able to relate.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have studied the Bible intensely for more than five decades. I love it, its stories, its timeliness and its "timelessness". The story of the Prodigal Son has always been my favorite. So, quietly and gently, LANMaster, I suggest you apply your talents and your humility in studying the Book of Mormon carefully as well. You will find truth in it that is timeless and timely. God reveals as He will to those He desires in His own ways.

It is not every day I agree with old Jake here. But if I can paraphrase my understanding of what he's just said: it is possible that God tolerates (or encourages) the creation of different religions to provide people with different opportunities to "come to God" via words and thinking they can grasp and to which they might be able to relate.

I have no problem with that at all. All man made churches are, well, run by man and man is fallible. We are bound to get things wrong, especially the longer we are at it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever?

First because forever and ever is not over with. Second, It was not promised that the house itself would stand forever and ever. That is a misinterpretation of the promise. It applies to the ressurection and the next life in which all things are renewed again.

 

[LANMaster]

I have studied the Bible intensely for more than five decades. I love it, its stories, its timeliness and its "timelessness". The story of the Prodigal Son has always been my favorite. So, quietly and gently, LANMaster, I suggest you apply your talents and your humility in studying the Book of Mormon carefully as well. You will find truth in it that is timeless and timely. God reveals as He will to those He desires in His own ways.

I can appreciate that view. In your position, I would expect nothing less.
Your faith wouldn't be much to talk about if you didn't believe it were the truth...and the whole truth.



God does reveal Himself to people as He desires.

I have also been asked to study the Pilars of Islam ... sorry ... not interested.
I know it is not an accurate comparisson, as we both believe in Christ, but you get the picture. When God does reach a person, while intellect is not stifled, one doesn't continue searching for the truth once they truly believe that they have already found it, as I believe that I have, you believe that you have, and perhaps JoLouis also believes that he has.

The best we can do is to follow the truth that we know and try to share Christ's love to those who are lost.

Cheers ... and Coke is better than rootbeer. PC's are better than Mac

 

[JoLouis]

LAN, you have just exposed yourself as a know nothing troll: "PC's are better than MAC". No half way intelligent person could ever come to that conclusion. Cheaper? Sure. More widely used, sure. Better? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, not in a million fucking years pal.

 

[JoLouis]

Truth, you're 0 for 2.

Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven? Do they not belong with man? Would not their existence prove once for all that Mormonism is truth? God allowed the Jews to carry the 10 commandments for several centuries in their original physical form, written by the finger of God Himself!

 

[LANMaster]

LAN, you have just exposed yourself as a know nothing troll: "PC's are better than MAC". No half way intelligent person could ever come to that conclusion. Cheaper? Sure. More widely used, sure. Better? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, not in a million fucking years pal.

I cannot think of a better way to prove both of my points ... thanks

 

[Truthspeaker]

Truth, you're 0 for 2.

Jo how am I o for 2? Which hanging slider or fastball down the middle did I miss? Description please?

Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven?

Several reasons:
1. The plates were in danger and Josephs family was being constantly mobbed by thieves trying to steal the plates.
2. Once the plates were finished their true purpose was fulfilled. The purpose was not to broadcast the existence but to bring about the Book of Mormon and test the faith of those who actually read it.
3. To help prove that at the last day, the book was true, not in the first few moments. God doesn't show people physical proof on spiritual matters. He shows spiritual proof for spiritual matters. When the plates are brought forth again it will be much to the chagrin of all the naysayers who refused to not only excercise faith but to even listen or read the book.

Do they not belong with man?

Not right now. The Book of Mormon belongs with man. The information on the plates is far more important than the plates themselves.

Would not their existence prove once for all that Mormonism is truth?

Absolutely not. Proof is not in viewing the plates. Proof is in the information on the plates. Science could prove that the plates existed til they were blue in the face but it wouldn't prove Joseph Smith a prophet. They could always explain it away calling Joseph a treasure seeker or something like that.

God allowed the Jews to carry the 10 commandments for several centuries in their original physical form, written by the finger of God Himself!

This is rich. How little you know about the 10 commandments. Sure they were in possession of the High Priest, but no one was allowed to view or touch them except the prophet or Highest Priesthood leader, least of all the public. Sound familar. Similar restriction of viewing with the Book of Mormon.

btw even if one of the jews snuck in to the temple to see the commandments, all he would have seen was the ark of the covenant. The tablets were inside. And if he touched the ark, it wouldn't have ended well with him. Didn't you see Indiana Jones?

 

[LANMaster]

Ever get in an argument with a bowl of mashed potatoes that thinks that it is sliced carrots?
Oh ... sure .... they're both vegetables, but who is to say the bowl of carrots is wrong?
.... or was it mashed potatoes. Maybe I'm being converted!

Damn you bowl of mashed potatoes!!! or carrots .... or whatever you are .... mocking me!



Hey .... you guys want to see something TRULY awesome?

Check out [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKMw1ndl-EY&feature=related"]this[/ame] part 1 of 4 of Louie Giglio on the size of the universe.
If you like part 1, you'll want to see parts 2, 3, and 4.


Here's some news ..... The company I work for (been here 7 years) was just sold and they want to bring in their own creative group. So I am out of a job in a shrinking market area.
Bummer, eh?
I truly have faith that My Lord has something better in store for me, even though this has been the best job that I have ever had.
His will be done in my life.

Jo may never understand what a comfort that faith brings. And I will testify to whatever his mission becomes for me is ... perhaps he wants me to pack up and leave. Mission work perhaps? I honestly do not know. I will look for new employment, but I will be listening even more carefully for His still small voice directing me to do His will in my life.



Everyone should know this kind of joy and comfort when faced with such uncertainty.

 

[Avatar4321]

You, Truthspeaker, are making erroneous statements. Let folks read what your Apostles and Seventies from the past have said. You are not authoritative, you speak your mind and nothing else. You are entitled to your opinion.

Our prophets and apostles have spoken and already said the same thing about the Journal of Discourses. Where do you think I got the idea from? The Journal of Discourses has known errors in it. Some things were taught as doctrine but then proven as nothing more than speculation after later revelations. sorry Jake,
I am brushed up on my doctrine.

You have been proven inaccurate many times on LDS doctrine and policy, Truthspeaker. The Journal of Discourses were considered in its day binding. Today it is not. Thus, logic follows, what is said to be binding today may not be in the future. Your opinion is your own, but it certainly much of the time does not reflect what the church was teaching then and at times what it is teaching now. No, you are not authorative, or very knowledgable, at all.

Could you point to the General Conference where the Journal fo Discource was adopted as binding scripture?

 

[Avatar4321]

If God was inspiring the translation process of the Book of Mormon, why were 4,000 changes necessary?

Because translations and printing involve humans and humans make mistakes.

 

[Avatar4321]

I have studied the Bible intensely for more than five decades. I love it, its stories, its timeliness and its "timelessness". The story of the Prodigal Son has always been my favorite. So, quietly and gently, LANMaster, I suggest you apply your talents and your humility in studying the Book of Mormon carefully as well. You will find truth in it that is timeless and timely. God reveals as He will to those He desires in His own ways.

I agree. The Prodigal Son is a very powerful Parable. Most people don't see all the meanings involved though. I am not sure I do yet.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever?

Last time I checked it was still standing.

Joseph Smith Historic Sites - The Nauvoo House

Course, forever isn't dont yet.

 

[Avatar4321]

Jo, you are mistaking religious institutions (organized churches) as supposedly authoritative in God's word. They are not, merely help sakes. Many make this mistake in Christianity, but that does not invalidate their belief in the Christ.

Why are you concerned with nonessentials?

Because he's never studied the doctrine and doesn't have any sort of intellectual basis to criticize the principles taught.

Shame though. I think it would benefit all people to read more, even if they don't believe it. Having knowledge about others can only benefit ourselves in life.

 

[Avatar4321]

LAN, you have just exposed yourself as a know nothing troll: "PC's are better than MAC". No half way intelligent person could ever come to that conclusion. Cheaper? Sure. More widely used, sure. Better? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, not in a million fucking years pal.

Better in that case is a matter of opinion. Apparently having an opinion different than you makes people a stupid troll. That tells me much more about you than anyone else.

 

[Avatar4321]

Truth, you're 0 for 2.

Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven? Do they not belong with man? Would not their existence prove once for all that Mormonism is truth? God allowed the Jews to carry the 10 commandments for several centuries in their original physical form, written by the finger of God Himself!

Because there were portions not translated. Mobs were a big enough problem without there being gold plates in anyones possession as it was.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Why did He ascend to heaven? Why didnt He show himself to everyone? Instead, He called 12 eye witnesses to testify to the world that He rose from the dead.

Likewise, He called 12 witnesses to see the plates and testify before the world that they did. Because the Book of Mormon is a type for Jesus Christ. The best evidence for it's veracity is the book itself.

Here we have a 500+ page book that was dictated in a process that took roughly two months. It's internally consistant with itself and with the Bible. Weaves a complex narrative. Includes ancient poetic form, along with names, phrases, and places ancient in origin and unknown in the Frontier of the United States at the time. It describes an accurate path through Arabia that was unknown to the time and contains accurate names and descriptions of the locations along the path.

Such is impressive by itself alone, but it also contains a promise that those who read and study it, then go to the Lord in Humble and Sincere prayer, will recieve knowledge from the Holy Ghost that it's true. And I've seen countless people do this very thing and recieve revelation from the Lord that it is true. I've experienced it myself. There is power in the words that change people's lives.

I recommend taking the challenge.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Our prophets and apostles have spoken and already said the same thing about the Journal of Discourses. Where do you think I got the idea from? The Journal of Discourses has known errors in it. Some things were taught as doctrine but then proven as nothing more than speculation after later revelations. sorry Jake,
I am brushed up on my doctrine.

You have been proven inaccurate many times on LDS doctrine and policy, Truthspeaker. The Journal of Discourses were considered in its day binding. Today it is not. Thus, logic follows, what is said to be binding today may not be in the future. Your opinion is your own, but it certainly much of the time does not reflect what the church was teaching then and at times what it is teaching now. No, you are not authorative, or very knowledgable, at all.

Could you point to the General Conference where the Journal fo Discource was adopted as binding scripture?

Can you point to the JD and BY and other GAs statements that it was not binding on the Saints. The membership understood it as such, and what the leadership today has to say about it means nothing at all in relation to how the leadership and membership then thought about it.