The Truth about Mormons

[Skeptik]

I not only disbelieve in God, I find the notion offensive. that there is so much misery in the world, and a being can change these things, and doesn't? He lets the good suffer and the evil prosper, and that's all soooo cool with him. Your God is an offensive myth, and I happily reject it.

Did you ever stop to think what kind of world we'd really have if God had made everything perfect? Mankind would still be happily living in huts and living by hunting/gathering. Adversity has been the mother of all of the inventions we've come up with over the centuries. A wise parent doesn't take all adversity from his/her children, and god won't make a perfect world for us.

If things go bad, it's our fault. God put us in charge.

Now, for this Phelps character... Sorry, I kind of put this kind of up there with Gotti forgiving Sammy the Bull... A couple of crooks playing each other.

From Wiki-

"Phelps was excommunicated from the church on March 10, 1838 when he was accused of profiting from Far West land deals and reneging on a USD$2,000 subscription to "the house of the Lord" that was not paid. In June 1838, Phelps, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, and Lyman E. Johnson were warned out of Far West "or a more fatal calamity shall befall you."[3]

In Nauvoo, Phelps spoke out in favor of the destruction of an opposition newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor. He believed that the city charter gave the church leaders power to declare the newspaper a nuisance. Shortly afterwards, the press and type were carried into the street and destroyed. Phelps was summoned to be tried for treason with Joseph Smith at Carthage, Illinois."

Yeah, swell guy.

Nice twist, trying to make Phelps into an early days Mormon. It took a lot of spin to do that, of course, kind of like trying to make black appear white.

We'll hear quite a lot of nonsense about Mormonism and Mormon beliefs until after the primary. If Romney wins, we'll hear even more as the election approaches. I can recall having heard that Mormons were sun worshippers during the last election, for example. That sort of nonsense stopped when the Republicans foolishly nominated the geezer and the airhead as their candidates, thus losing the election to a freshman senator from Illinois.

 

[JoeB131]

I not only disbelieve in God, I find the notion offensive. that there is so much misery in the world, and a being can change these things, and doesn't? He lets the good suffer and the evil prosper, and that's all soooo cool with him. Your God is an offensive myth, and I happily reject it.

Did you ever stop to think what kind of world we'd really have if God had made everything perfect? Mankind would still be happily living in huts and living by hunting/gathering. Adversity has been the mother of all of the inventions we've come up with over the centuries. A wise parent doesn't take all adversity from his/her children, and god won't make a perfect world for us.

If things go bad, it's our fault. God put us in charge.

Yes, a very good rationalization that most religionists use to validate God's apparent impotence after plane crashes and hurricanes.

Considering we are in danger of destroying the world with our technologies, I don't think God was doing us any favors, exactly.

If real parents acted like God did, someone would call DCFS.

Now, for this Phelps character... Sorry, I kind of put this kind of up there with Gotti forgiving Sammy the Bull... A couple of crooks playing each other.

From Wiki-

"Phelps was excommunicated from the church on March 10, 1838 when he was accused of profiting from Far West land deals and reneging on a USD$2,000 subscription to "the house of the Lord" that was not paid. In June 1838, Phelps, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, and Lyman E. Johnson were warned out of Far West "or a more fatal calamity shall befall you."[3]

In Nauvoo, Phelps spoke out in favor of the destruction of an opposition newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor. He believed that the city charter gave the church leaders power to declare the newspaper a nuisance. Shortly afterwards, the press and type were carried into the street and destroyed. Phelps was summoned to be tried for treason with Joseph Smith at Carthage, Illinois."

Yeah, swell guy.

Nice twist, trying to make Phelps into an early days Mormon. It took a lot of spin to do that, of course, kind of like trying to make black appear white.

Phelps was an Early Days Latter Day Saint. Please read the article I linked. He was in the Church, got thrown out for committing fraud (which was usually a qualifier in early Mormonism. Guess Joey didn't get his cut) testified against Smith and then was welcomed back into the church after doing a Winston Smith and confessing all his sins.

He eventually went to Utah with the rest of them and they buried him there.

We'll hear quite a lot of nonsense about Mormonism and Mormon beliefs until after the primary. If Romney wins, we'll hear even more as the election approaches. I can recall having heard that Mormons were sun worshippers during the last election, for example. That sort of nonsense stopped when the Republicans foolishly nominated the geezer and the airhead as their candidates, thus losing the election to a freshman senator from Illinois.

I think it's unfair to blame McCain and Palin for the 2008 loss. What really killed them, besides a sucky economy and an unpopular war (neither of which was their fault) was that the GOP has spent most of the last half century alienating non-whites. McCain WON the white vote, 55-45%, and if the electorate had voted at the same racial percentages as 1976, he'd have won the election. Where McCain lost it was with blacks (95-5) Hispanics (61-39) and Asians (56-44).

The GOP needs to make inroads with minorties. They aren't going to make them with (and here are some more of those beliefs you claim are nonsense but never actually refute) with a church that has in it's bible that dark skin is a curse from God, and didn't allow minorities membership until 1978.

 

[Skeptik]

I not only disbelieve in God, I find the notion offensive. that there is so much misery in the world, and a being can change these things, and doesn't? He lets the good suffer and the evil prosper, and that's all soooo cool with him. Your God is an offensive myth, and I happily reject it.

Did you ever stop to think what kind of world we'd really have if God had made everything perfect? Mankind would still be happily living in huts and living by hunting/gathering. Adversity has been the mother of all of the inventions we've come up with over the centuries. A wise parent doesn't take all adversity from his/her children, and god won't make a perfect world for us.

If things go bad, it's our fault. God put us in charge.

Yes, a very good rationalization that most religionists use to validate God's apparent impotence after plane crashes and hurricanes.

Considering we are in danger of destroying the world with our technologies, I don't think God was doing us any favors, exactly.

If real parents acted like God did, someone would call DCFS.

Nice twist, trying to make Phelps into an early days Mormon. It took a lot of spin to do that, of course, kind of like trying to make black appear white.

Phelps was an Early Days Latter Day Saint. Please read the article I linked. He was in the Church, got thrown out for committing fraud (which was usually a qualifier in early Mormonism. Guess Joey didn't get his cut) testified against Smith and then was welcomed back into the church after doing a Winston Smith and confessing all his sins.

He eventually went to Utah with the rest of them and they buried him there.

We'll hear quite a lot of nonsense about Mormonism and Mormon beliefs until after the primary. If Romney wins, we'll hear even more as the election approaches. I can recall having heard that Mormons were sun worshippers during the last election, for example. That sort of nonsense stopped when the Republicans foolishly nominated the geezer and the airhead as their candidates, thus losing the election to a freshman senator from Illinois.

I think it's unfair to blame McCain and Palin for the 2008 loss. What really killed them, besides a sucky economy and an unpopular war (neither of which was their fault) was that the GOP has spent most of the last half century alienating non-whites. McCain WON the white vote, 55-45%, and if the electorate had voted at the same racial percentages as 1976, he'd have won the election. Where McCain lost it was with blacks (95-5) Hispanics (61-39) and Asians (56-44).

The GOP needs to make inroads with minorties. They aren't going to make them with (and here are some more of those beliefs you claim are nonsense but never actually refute) with a church that has in it's bible that dark skin is a curse from God, and didn't allow minorities membership until 1978.

God is not in charge. I realize that there are "religionists" (what does that term really mean, anyway?) who think that he is. No, god is not in charge of this world. For better or worse, human beings are in charge. That doesn't mean that there is no god, just that he/she doesn't micromanage creation. Even the Christian Bible says that man was given "dominion".

If things go bad, it's our fault.

If Phelps was really an early days Latter Day Saint, then he has to be at least 200 years old. Maybe he really is an immortal, and we should listen to him. Is that really your point?

The point I made was that the fact that a Mormon is running for president is going to once again bring up nonsense about Mormonism. That is exactly what happened last time around. It is happening again with the "Mormons aren't christian" nonsense. Bringing up the race issue is just a red herring that has nothing to do with what I said to begin with.

Oh, and saying that Phelps was a church founder is one of the most absurd pieces of misinformation I've read anywhere, right up there with the Mormons are sun worshippers that I heard the last time around. I think I'll use it as a second example.

 

[JoeB131]

Not even sure where you are going with the Phelps nonsense. I suggest you read up on him and then get back to me.

God is not in charge. I realize that there are "religionists" (what does that term really mean, anyway?) who think that he is. No, god is not in charge of this world. For better or worse, human beings are in charge. That doesn't mean that there is no god, just that he/she doesn't micromanage creation. Even the Christian Bible says that man was given "dominion".

If things go bad, it's our fault.

if that's the case, why bother worshipping the Sky Pixie at all? I mean, he's all about that. First four commandments are about worshipping God. Maybe he just needs a hug, he sounds awfully insecure. (DRIPPING MOCKERY)

Sorry, don't buy that nonsense. Haven't for years. God was created by Bronze age savages to explain the nature they didn't understand. He's been perpetuated by modern people, because, hey, we are scared of death. So we go along with a Joseph Smith or any other con artist who promises us Puppies and sunshine in the afterlife. Religion is just a testament to human fear and weakness, and there is nothing admirable about any of it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JoeB, the only one to feel sorry for here is you.

Wish you best.

 

[Skeptik]

Not even sure where you are going with the Phelps nonsense. I suggest you read up on him and then get back to me.

God is not in charge. I realize that there are "religionists" (what does that term really mean, anyway?) who think that he is. No, god is not in charge of this world. For better or worse, human beings are in charge. That doesn't mean that there is no god, just that he/she doesn't micromanage creation. Even the Christian Bible says that man was given "dominion".

If things go bad, it's our fault.

if that's the case, why bother worshipping the Sky Pixie at all? I mean, he's all about that. First four commandments are about worshipping God. Maybe he just needs a hug, he sounds awfully insecure. (DRIPPING MOCKERY)

Sorry, don't buy that nonsense. Haven't for years. God was created by Bronze age savages to explain the nature they didn't understand. He's been perpetuated by modern people, because, hey, we are scared of death. So we go along with a Joseph Smith or any other con artist who promises us Puppies and sunshine in the afterlife. Religion is just a testament to human fear and weakness, and there is nothing admirable about any of it.

God created humans. Humans have created many gods over the centuries, mostly for the reasons you suggest, but also so the kings could control the masses.

If we don't understand god, if the gods we have created fall short, that doesn't mean that there is no god.

 

[BIGJIM321]

Is it true that they believe satan is the brother of jesus

 

[JoeB131]

God created humans. Humans have created many gods over the centuries, mostly for the reasons you suggest, but also so the kings could control the masses.

If we don't understand god, if the gods we have created fall short, that doesn't mean that there is no god.

No, God didn't 'create' humans. We evolved from apes. Learn to deal with it.

The difference between us is that you reject all those "other" Gods men have created, but insist your God is true. I reject all Gods, and Jehovah is as unreal to me as Zeus.

 

[Skeptik]

God created humans. Humans have created many gods over the centuries, mostly for the reasons you suggest, but also so the kings could control the masses.

If we don't understand god, if the gods we have created fall short, that doesn't mean that there is no god.

No, God didn't 'create' humans. We evolved from apes. Learn to deal with it.

The difference between us is that you reject all those "other" Gods men have created, but insist your God is true. I reject all Gods, and Jehovah is as unreal to me as Zeus.

If you want to believe that humans evolved into intelligent beings with no one starting the process of evolution and/or guiding it along the way, OK.

While there is plenty of proof of evolution, there is none that it all happened by itself.

 

[JoeB131]

God created humans. Humans have created many gods over the centuries, mostly for the reasons you suggest, but also so the kings could control the masses.

If we don't understand god, if the gods we have created fall short, that doesn't mean that there is no god.

No, God didn't 'create' humans. We evolved from apes. Learn to deal with it.

The difference between us is that you reject all those "other" Gods men have created, but insist your God is true. I reject all Gods, and Jehovah is as unreal to me as Zeus.

If you want to believe that humans evolved into intelligent beings with no one starting the process of evolution and/or guiding it along the way, OK.

While there is plenty of proof of evolution, there is none that it all happened by itself.

There's plenty of proof now that it happens by itself. It happens every year around us, when they have to devise new anti-biotics because the germs evolve immunities against the old ones.

 

[Skeptik]

No, God didn't 'create' humans. We evolved from apes. Learn to deal with it.

The difference between us is that you reject all those "other" Gods men have created, but insist your God is true. I reject all Gods, and Jehovah is as unreal to me as Zeus.

If you want to believe that humans evolved into intelligent beings with no one starting the process of evolution and/or guiding it along the way, OK.

While there is plenty of proof of evolution, there is none that it all happened by itself.

There's plenty of proof now that it happens by itself. It happens every year around us, when they have to devise new anti-biotics because the germs evolve immunities against the old ones.

Satan's work.

(no, that wasn't meant to be taken seriously, in case anyone is wondering)

When those viruses evolve intelligence, then I'll change my mind.

 

[Poli_Sigh]

Romney's Mormonism in focus at political meeting - Yahoo! News

This is why I do not believe Romney will ever get the nomination. I was born and raised in South Central Texas; never met a Mormon until I moved to LA. Conservative Christians in Texas do not believe Mormons are even Christians.

It is indeed unfortunate that our country has acquiesced on the subject of mixing church with state. Freedom of individual religious choice is one of our fundamental rights under the Constitution. Just because these Bible-Thumping-Jesus-Freaks cannot separate their religion from their politics isn't an indicator that everyone else cannot.

 

[JoeB131]

Romney's Mormonism in focus at political meeting - Yahoo! News

This is why I do not believe Romney will ever get the nomination. I was born and raised in South Central Texas; never met a Mormon until I moved to LA. Conservative Christians in Texas do not believe Mormons are even Christians.

It is indeed unfortunate that our country has acquiesced on the subject of mixing church with state. Freedom of individual religious choice is one of our fundamental rights under the Constitution. Just because these Bible-Thumping-Jesus-Freaks cannot separate their religion from their politics isn't an indicator that everyone else cannot.

I'm an atheist, and I wouldn't vote for a Mormon. I find the whole thing just a little too freaky.

I think you can make the argument that Mormons aren't Christians. They had to make up a whole new bible (the Book of Mormon) to repaint Jesus as a completely different character than he is in the bible.

 

[Avatar4321]

Joseph Smith would not approve of Avatar4321's economic theories and would threaten him with being cut off from the church h espoused them publically.

So what exactly do you think He would have against working hard, and blessing your neighbor through choice rather than compulsion?

Who exactly do you think taught me the principle of charity a willing heart? Who do you think taught me the danger of Robbers infultrating the government? Who do you think taught me that if we keep the commandments we shall prosper in the land?

The Holy Spirit, through the revelations that were given to Joseph Smith.

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;

44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.

45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever. (D&C 121:41-46)

So again, which principles that I espouse do you think he would oppose?

 

[Avatar4321]

Joseph Smith would not approve of Avatar4321's economic theories and would threaten him with being cut off from the church h espoused them publically.

Well, MOrmons by and large hide Joseph Smith in the closet like a crazy uncle when most people ask about him...

Which, of course, is why the first thing we teach potential investigators, after the fact that God the Father and Jesus Christ live is the concept of Joseph Smith as a modern prophet.

You know, I know you think you're very knowledgible about Mormons and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but you keep saying ridiculous things like this.

 

[Avatar4321]

I not only disbelieve in God, I find the notion offensive. that there is so much misery in the world, and a being can change these things, and doesn't? He lets the good suffer and the evil prosper, and that's all soooo cool with him. Your God is an offensive myth, and I happily reject it.

Now, for this Phelps character... Sorry, I kind of put this kind of up there with Gotti forgiving Sammy the Bull... A couple of crooks playing each other.

From Wiki-

"Phelps was excommunicated from the church on March 10, 1838 when he was accused of profiting from Far West land deals and reneging on a USD$2,000 subscription to "the house of the Lord" that was not paid. In June 1838, Phelps, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, John Whitmer, and Lyman E. Johnson were warned out of Far West "or a more fatal calamity shall befall you."[3]

In Nauvoo, Phelps spoke out in favor of the destruction of an opposition newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor. He believed that the city charter gave the church leaders power to declare the newspaper a nuisance. Shortly afterwards, the press and type were carried into the street and destroyed. Phelps was summoned to be tried for treason with Joseph Smith at Carthage, Illinois."

Yeah, swell guy.

Well, he doesn't reject you. He still loves you and is continually reaching out to you. And when you reach your moment of despair, which you will, if you all for Him in the name of Jesus Christ, He will heal you.

And btw the city charger did give the city council power to shut down the press as a nuise.

And the Treason charges were bogus, as those familiar with history and the law realize.

Accusing someone of a crime doesn't make them guilty. This nation may be losing it's standing but thankfully that's always been true.

 

[Avatar4321]

Is it true that they believe satan is the brother of jesus

Jim, we all existed as Spirits together before the world was created and before we were born. We are the sons and daughters of God. And before Satan fell, he was among us. In fact, Job 2:1 specifically mentions him being among the sons of God when they ame to present themselves before Father.

Yet, sadly he rebelled against Father. And he was cast out of heaven and became Satan the father of lies.

 

[Avatar4321]

Romney's Mormonism in focus at political meeting - Yahoo! News

This is why I do not believe Romney will ever get the nomination. I was born and raised in South Central Texas; never met a Mormon until I moved to LA. Conservative Christians in Texas do not believe Mormons are even Christians.

It is indeed unfortunate that our country has acquiesced on the subject of mixing church with state. Freedom of individual religious choice is one of our fundamental rights under the Constitution. Just because these Bible-Thumping-Jesus-Freaks cannot separate their religion from their politics isn't an indicator that everyone else cannot.

I'm an atheist, and I wouldn't vote for a Mormon. I find the whole thing just a little too freaky.

I think you can make the argument that Mormons aren't Christians. They had to make up a whole new bible (the Book of Mormon) to repaint Jesus as a completely different character than he is in the bible.

The Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That He was born of the virgin Mary. That was born in Palestine and called 12 disciples to follow Him. That He was baptized by John the Baptist. That He preached to the people in Judea and the surounding lands. That He bled from every poor. That He was killed for the sins of the world. That He rose from the dead on the third day and ascended to Heaven. And that He visited the lost sheep of the House of Israel. And they know this because they saw Him. They felt the nail prints in His hands, His wrists, and His feet. They felt the spear wound in His side. They bear record of the reality of the Resurrection and that we will all rise from the dead.

The Bible teaches the same.

And I can tell you by the power of the Holy Ghost that I have learned for myself that Jesus is the Son of God. That His Atonement is real and truly has power to change human nature and save lives. I know that the resurrection is real and that we will all rise from the dead. I know this because of the mercies of God.

The Book of Mormon is not another Bible. It's an independent witness that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World. It is the testimony of a second nation that the Testimony of the Apostles in the Bible is true. And by the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

You can hate, defame, revile, and ignore all you want. But the Book of Mormon is true. And Jesus is the promised Messiah. And it will always remain true. And all are invited to read the Book of Mormon for themselves and come before God in Humble prayer to inquire whether it's true. Because God will reveal the Truth of it to the honest in heart who seek to know whether it is of God.

Repent of your sins. Come to Christ and be healed. He will not only heal you, but teach you things you never would have suspected. He will open your eyes to things that most never imagine. It's an amazing and humbling journey. And you will always be welcome to come.

 

[Avatar4321]

Romney's Mormonism in focus at political meeting - Yahoo! News

This is why I do not believe Romney will ever get the nomination. I was born and raised in South Central Texas; never met a Mormon until I moved to LA. Conservative Christians in Texas do not believe Mormons are even Christians.

It is indeed unfortunate that our country has acquiesced on the subject of mixing church with state. Freedom of individual religious choice is one of our fundamental rights under the Constitution. Just because these Bible-Thumping-Jesus-Freaks cannot separate their religion from their politics isn't an indicator that everyone else cannot.

I dont know that we should separate our religion from politics. we are who we are and hold the values we hold because of our religious faith. Should we then somehow less geniune if we wish to run for political office?

The problem is when we think should force our religion onto others. But I don't begrudge anyone voting according to their conscience simply because their values are determined by religion.

 

[Skeptik]

Romney's Mormonism in focus at political meeting - Yahoo! News

This is why I do not believe Romney will ever get the nomination. I was born and raised in South Central Texas; never met a Mormon until I moved to LA. Conservative Christians in Texas do not believe Mormons are even Christians.

It is indeed unfortunate that our country has acquiesced on the subject of mixing church with state. Freedom of individual religious choice is one of our fundamental rights under the Constitution. Just because these Bible-Thumping-Jesus-Freaks cannot separate their religion from their politics isn't an indicator that everyone else cannot.

I'm an atheist, and I wouldn't vote for a Mormon. I find the whole thing just a little too freaky.

I think you can make the argument that Mormons aren't Christians. They had to make up a whole new bible (the Book of Mormon) to repaint Jesus as a completely different character than he is in the bible.

The Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That He was born of the virgin Mary. That was born in Palestine and called 12 disciples to follow Him. That He was baptized by John the Baptist. That He preached to the people in Judea and the surounding lands. That He bled from every poor. That He was killed for the sins of the world. That He rose from the dead on the third day and ascended to Heaven. And that He visited the lost sheep of the House of Israel. And they know this because they saw Him. They felt the nail prints in His hands, His wrists, and His feet. They felt the spear wound in His side. They bear record of the reality of the Resurrection and that we will all rise from the dead.

The Bible teaches the same.

And I can tell you by the power of the Holy Ghost that I have learned for myself that Jesus is the Son of God. That His Atonement is real and truly has power to change human nature and save lives. I know that the resurrection is real and that we will all rise from the dead. I know this because of the mercies of God.

The Book of Mormon is not another Bible. It's an independent witness that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World. It is the testimony of a second nation that the Testimony of the Apostles in the Bible is true. And by the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

You can hate, defame, revile, and ignore all you want. But the Book of Mormon is true. And Jesus is the promised Messiah. And it will always remain true. And all are invited to read the Book of Mormon for themselves and come before God in Humble prayer to inquire whether it's true. Because God will reveal the Truth of it to the honest in heart who seek to know whether it is of God.

Repent of your sins. Come to Christ and be healed. He will not only heal you, but teach you things you never would have suspected. He will open your eyes to things that most never imagine. It's an amazing and humbling journey. And you will always be welcome to come.

I did that.

I read the Book of Mormon, then asked in prayer if it was true.

I didn't get an answer.

I was told I did it wrong: I should have asked God to make me believe that it was true.

I think you could make yourself believe practically anything by first wanting to believe it, then praying earnestly to god to tell you that it is true.

But, none of that makes a thing true. Wanting to believe a thing, earnestly praying for it to be true, that doesn't make a thing true. If you pray with an open mind and ask whether a thing is true, you're likely to get a different answer.

Or, no answer at all.