The Truth about Mormons

[JoeB131]

yeah, but we've already established that your depiction of reality is questionable.

Yeah... Ummm, hey, did they find those Nephite Ruins yet?

You know, if the NEphite Civilization existed, there ought to be evidence of it, right?

And there is if you bother looking at the evidence. The problem is identifying it and the lack of research into that area.

However, the fact that an uneducated farmboy in frontier New York described an accurate route through the Arabia Penninsula in 1 Nephi through Nahom and Bountiful, and even accurately named Nahom as the evidence shows it was known at time is pretty impressive. But I suppose thats another one of those coincidence that Joseph just happened to get right that no one knew about for nearly 200 years.

Well, no, not really. And it doesn't answer my question. Besides the fact that geography of the Arabian penisula was known to him (they had maps in 1820) the theory about Nahom isn't accepted outside LDS circles.

More to the point, the Nephite civilization is reputed to have lasted over a thousand years- as long as Rome.

Yet there are no linguistic, archeological, genetic, etc. evidence to be found.

Smith talks about grains growing in the Nephite lands that existed in his time, but not in pre-Columbian America. He describes elephants and horses which didn't live here, either. Coinage, Chariots, Swords- None of which Amerindians used.

Face it guy, the Book of Mormon is bad Bible Fan-Fic.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, stop it. No one can "prove" God exists or not. This is a faith thing. You don't believe, cool. Neither do I, in the Mormon thing.

Who cares?

Don't be as silly as JoeB.

joe b has the right to not seek god. how does that make him more silly than avatar?

That isn't what makes him silly. His silliness is hating people who do.

NO, what I hate are assholes who use imaginary sky pixies to control people.

You ever notice that your sky pixie is against all the things you are against. What a co-incidence!

 

[daws101]

true ...on the other hand he cannot prove a god exists, not by belief anyway.
you need evidence for that.
faith is evidence of faith nothing more.
anyone proclaiming it's more, is lying to themselves and others.

Your lack of experience with God and His Holy Spirit doesn't mean no one else has had experience with them.

to be accurate the no ones else's believed they have experienced god. it's far more likely they are having mild hallucinations aka imagining thing.

 

[JoeB131]

nonsense. Especially considering that countless ex-mormons claim we wont leave them alone. Go to any anti-mormon forum and ask if anyone has problems with mormons who wont leave them alone. They will give you tons of stories showing the exact opposite of what your claiming. So stop lying.

That's what disgusts me about anti-mormons such as yourself. You're so freakin insecure about your positions that you have to make things up.

I think that continuing to bug them isn't the same as "not shunning them".

How about this. When someone leaves your religion, you respect that and don't try to win them back and don't shun them and actually respect their decision.

What a Fuckin' concept.

Why on earth should you expect people to respect you when you treat them like garbage?

And thank you for conceding the point.

Until some of you stabbed me in the back during a difficult time in my life, I was indifferent to your cult. I didn't start this grudge match, some of your fellow religionists did.

Defeating Romney is where I'm willing to call the score settled, but if you're feeling froggy, jump right in.

Point is, when someone leaves your religion, they aren't "treating you like garbage". They've just made a choice you don't like.

Which means you don't harrass them, you don't spy on them, and you don't tell their family members they can't talk to them anymore- all stuff your church does.

Now in 1983, after my mom died, I was done with Catholicism. At that point, it went from being something I was already starting to consider stupid to a mean-spirited lie, which all religions are.

But you know what. My family members who remained Catholic didn't stop talking to me, even though some of them actually WORK for the church. Nor do they spend time preaching to me. (But probably becuase they know they'll get spanked.) They just accept the decision I've made.

 

[HUGGY]

It's astonishing that you think just insulting people somehow proves your point. I don't think your stupid though. I just think you aren't thinking.

How convenient that no one has come back from the dead since you people came up with this nonsense to verify the rediculous claims made by Christians and Mormans.. OR should we just skip to the chase and call it fraud, which it is. If this scam wasn't being conducted under the protection of freedom of religion you would all be in prison.

Except they have.

1) Jesus Christ
2) Moroni
3) John the Baptist
4) Peter, James, and John

You can read the scriptures and find out more for yourself.

#1 JC? Word of mouth by uneducated people for how long? Nonsense. Even among a society as advanced as ours there is a reason for a statute of limitations. Do you really think someone 200 years from now would take the word of any group of people that had not documented something that happened today?

Moroni? Now the Morman cult is conducting a fraud even moreso than the regular crazy Christians. There is no angel Moroni. You people made that up out of whole cloth to cover yourselves for your penchant to sexually abuse children.

#3? see #1

#4? see #1

You are all liars and deceivers that prey on the weak minded. You should all be thrown in prison.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Now the atheists are pretending they don't have faith that God does not exist?

They are the biggest believers of all.

 

[HUGGY]

Now the atheists are pretending they don't have faith that God does not exist?

They are the biggest believers of all.

A double negative. You are not making any sense.

 

[daws101]

Now the atheists are pretending they don't have faith that God does not exist?

They are the biggest believers of all.

right, that's like saying NOT COLLECTING stamps is a hobby..

 

[JoeB131]

Now the atheists are pretending they don't have faith that God does not exist?

They are the biggest believers of all.

A double negative. You are not making any sense.

He rarely does. He doesn't know if he's trolling the left or the right half the time.

 

[LittleNipper]

One needs to compare the the writing within the Bible to those of the book of Mormon. If there is confusion, and since God is not the author of confusion, and Jesus fully supported the Bible, then one must conclude that the book of Mormon is counterfeit.

I thought god created everything?

God created Joseph Smith, and Joseph Smith seems to have fabricated the book of Mormon. Therefore the book of Mormon owes its existence to God's permissive will.

 

[JoeB131]

Now the atheists are pretending they don't have faith that God does not exist?

They are the biggest believers of all.

right, that's like saying NOT COLLECTING stamps is a hobby..

Speaking of which, check out this guy's YouTube Channel.

NonStampCollector - YouTube

 

[LittleNipper]

need to ,there are no plates (never were) whatever the witnesses BELIEVE they saw or imagined they saw (the spiritual eye) is no evidence of the plates existing.
humans tend to find what they want to find even when it's not there.
I have no doubt they did believe what they imagined they saw, books on human behavior are full of accounts of misidentification.

Like I said, it's fine that you are going to ignore the eyewitnesses because it's inconvenient for your current perspective. That's your choice. But it doesn't change the fact that the eye witnesses exist and their testimony and behavior conflict with your viewpoint.

The eyewitnesses all seem to have been related or friends, and not some unbiased notary public.

 

[Avatar4321]

Until some of you stabbed me in the back during a difficult time in my life, I was indifferent to your cult. I didn't start this grudge match, some of your fellow religionists did.

Defeating Romney is where I'm willing to call the score settled, but if you're feeling froggy, jump right in.

Point is, when someone leaves your religion, they aren't "treating you like garbage". They've just made a choice you don't like.

Which means you don't harrass them, you don't spy on them, and you don't tell their family members they can't talk to them anymore- all stuff your church does.

Now in 1983, after my mom died, I was done with Catholicism. At that point, it went from being something I was already starting to consider stupid to a mean-spirited lie, which all religions are.

But you know what. My family members who remained Catholic didn't stop talking to me, even though some of them actually WORK for the church. Nor do they spend time preaching to me. (But probably becuase they know they'll get spanked.) They just accept the decision I've made.

You can't even get through a single post without some straw man attack.

No one says people who leave the Church treat anyone like garbage. I said you shouldnt expect respect when you treat people like garbage.

Mormons don't shun people who leave the Church. We try to serve them and invite them to come back. We don't want them to stay away. No matter how much you claim otherwise, you're still blatantly misrepresenting reality. Families are encouraged to reach out not shun. And when we don't reach out to them regularly it's because they specifically asked us to stop.

I understand you hate us for some unfathomable reason. But that doesnt give you a right to completely lie.

 

[Avatar4321]

sorry shit for comprehension but I did not ignore the witnesses, there is no way to validate what they say they saw.
their testimony and behavior only proves they believed Nothing more...

There is an easy way to validate what they saw:

Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. (Moroni 10:3-5)

That is ultimately the only way to know.

Their words and action support their testimony. But the only way to know for sure is to go to the Lord for yourself. There will be many more who will see and feel the plates before the end.

first your so called validation has no basis in fact, the actions, places, dialog and people therein are fiction...
I guess you're right believing totally false scripture is easy.

Im pretty sure when God reveals to you: "I'm God and this stuff is true" It's a pretty safe conclusion that it's a fact despite what you want to claim.

Again, just because you havent had experiences, doesnt mean others haven't. No rational person can conclude otherwise.

 

[Avatar4321]

Well, no, not really. And it doesn't answer my question. Besides the fact that geography of the Arabian penisula was known to him (they had maps in 1820) the theory about Nahom isn't accepted outside LDS circles.

More to the point, the Nephite civilization is reputed to have lasted over a thousand years- as long as Rome.

Yet there are no linguistic, archeological, genetic, etc. evidence to be found.

Smith talks about grains growing in the Nephite lands that existed in his time, but not in pre-Columbian America. He describes elephants and horses which didn't live here, either. Coinage, Chariots, Swords- None of which Amerindians used.

Face it guy, the Book of Mormon is bad Bible Fan-Fic.

The theory of Nahom isnt accepted by sources outside the Church because anyone who believed it would recognize the Book of Mormon is true and thus join the Church. Doesnt change the fact that an unlearned frontier farm boy described an accurate path through the Arabian penninsula THAT WAS UNKNOWN until about the last decade or so.

As mentioned, the evidence is there. It's just impossible to conclusively identify it as Nephite because precolumbian American history is spotty and a relatively new endevour and because the Spanish in their conquest destroyed countless records.

And considering you are unaware or ignoring of what has been found and are being dishonest in what the Book of Mormon actually claims, your position is pretty weak. Again, if it's strong, why do you feel the need to misrepresent us?

 

[Avatar4321]

joe b has the right to not seek god. how does that make him more silly than avatar?

That isn't what makes him silly. His silliness is hating people who do.

NO, what I hate are assholes who use imaginary sky pixies to control people.

You ever notice that your sky pixie is against all the things you are against. What a co-incidence!

Nope. Because it's not true. But I live my life so that I am for what He is for to the best of my ability.

And I know you prefer Tyrants controling you.

 

[Avatar4321]

true ...on the other hand he cannot prove a god exists, not by belief anyway.
you need evidence for that.
faith is evidence of faith nothing more.
anyone proclaiming it's more, is lying to themselves and others.

Your lack of experience with God and His Holy Spirit doesn't mean no one else has had experience with them.

to be accurate the no ones else's believed they have experienced god. it's far more likely they are having mild hallucinations aka imagining thing.

Because clearly you have vast insight into someone elses life.

 

[Avatar4321]

How convenient that no one has come back from the dead since you people came up with this nonsense to verify the rediculous claims made by Christians and Mormans.. OR should we just skip to the chase and call it fraud, which it is. If this scam wasn't being conducted under the protection of freedom of religion you would all be in prison.

Except they have.

1) Jesus Christ
2) Moroni
3) John the Baptist
4) Peter, James, and John

You can read the scriptures and find out more for yourself.

#1 JC? Word of mouth by uneducated people for how long? Nonsense. Even among a society as advanced as ours there is a reason for a statute of limitations. Do you really think someone 200 years from now would take the word of any group of people that had not documented something that happened today?

Moroni? Now the Morman cult is conducting a fraud even moreso than the regular crazy Christians. There is no angel Moroni. You people made that up out of whole cloth to cover yourselves for your penchant to sexually abuse children.

#3? see #1

#4? see #1

You are all liars and deceivers that prey on the weak minded. You should all be thrown in prison.

Why? Because you cant handle the truth?

You have to falsely accuse people of lying and sexual sin because you dont have the integrity to actually do the work necessary to find out for yourself? Why? Why do you fight so much with what you know are completely shallow arguments?

Especially when we have modern witnesses.

 

[Avatar4321]

One needs to compare the the writing within the Bible to those of the book of Mormon. If there is confusion, and since God is not the author of confusion, and Jesus fully supported the Bible, then one must conclude that the book of Mormon is counterfeit.

I thought god created everything?

God created Joseph Smith, and Joseph Smith seems to have fabricated the book of Mormon. Therefore the book of Mormon owes its existence to God's permissive will.

God says differently.

 

[Avatar4321]

The eyewitnesses all seem to have been related or friends, and not some unbiased notary public.

And yet, they exist.