The Truth about Mormons

[ABikerSailor]

Interesting.........Moronism is a cult based on racist beliefs..........

And people say they are such nice folks........

 

[Truthspeaker]

What?

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, preached ending slavery??? He sure did. The book of mormon denounces slavery.

In the Book of Mormon is 2 Nephi 5:21. It is said that God cursed the Lamanites with black skin so they would not be enticing unto the Nephites.Not sure what your point is but in 3 Nephi 2:14-18 That curse was removed forever.

Even though Alma 17:14 describes the Lamanites as being a wild, ferocious, plundering, robbing, and murdering people, God felt the need to change their skin color to make them not enticing to the Nephites ... as if their immoral acts were not sufficient enough to deter the Nephites into wanting to become like themWe all know good girls have a thing for bad guys. It is also stated in 2 Nephi 5:23 that the Nephites would also be cursed with the dark skin if they married with the Lamanites.True, but like I said the curse was taken away.

The Lamanite babies that were born to the dark-skinned Lamanaties also had the sign of this curse.

Funny that you should be trying to hammer me David. Of all people, the Jews have never had better friends than us. It seems like we are the only ones that like you.

Glad your church caught up with the 20th-21st century and gave equality to people of the Negroid race. Oh really, why don't you tell us all of the benevolence of white southern churches to blacks even up to this day, let alone before 1978.

Paul said 2,000 years ago that with Christ their is no distinction between nationalities, races, Jew or Gentile........All our one in Christ.The same thing is said in the Book of Mormon 2 Nephi chapter 28

Though your priesthoods are unbiblicalMelchizedek and Aaron are two pretty well known Biblical names., and create a type of heirarchy amongst Mormon believers, it's nice to know that Africa Americans finally were allowed equal access to your priesthood.Not just african americans but all blacks.

It amazes me that any African Americans would have anything to do with your church.Maybe they know something you don't. Why don't you ask them.Black LDS Mormons

How convenient that when the LDS church came under fire for this violation of human rights Priesthood is not a right.that your presiding president/prophet had an epiphany/vision/revelation that the banning of black members from the priesthood no longer was in effect?Yes I would say it was extremely convenient. Thank God. What I find inconvenient is that we had to suffer criticism for so long from a bunch of people who don't understand context and the wisdom of God like you.

To call the American Indian part of the tribes of Isael, is both insulting to the Jews as well as the indigenous American Indians.Why would either of them be insulted? Maybe some but not all. When they find out some of them are related they will not be.

DNA studiesThere are no conclusive studies and you can't show them to me because they all are in the end speculative. positively prove that the pure American Indian, is of AsianWe have been saying that all along. The Jaredites were of Asiatic origins. ancestry that does not connect in anyway with the 13, yes, 13 tribes of Israel(Check it out in the O.T..book of Numbers.....13 tribes not 12).I am sure there are more tribes too.

Why sure you can take DNA lineage of every man and woman back to Adam and Eve, by just saying that we are all of human species DNA-wise.But you are wrong in your assumption. I am clarifying misunderstandings as usual.
******
Truthspeaker......Though you overtly present an "innocent" image of just imforming us infidelsWe don't use the term infadel. It's an arabic term. of who the real church is, you have been taught from day one in your church to use covert methods to evangelize, yet disguise it as "inform" people..But you are wrong in your assumption. I am clarifying misunderstandings as usual.


Jehovah's Witnesses use the same methodology as your missionarys do at the door. We are way nicer than those guys.
******
The number one trait of the occult and of Christian cults is how they change the nature of Christ from how the Holy bible reveals His identity, and nature.Whatever
*****
The Celestial sexual intercourse after death for the most righteous of Mormon males, hints so closely of the fleshly, humanistic, manmade religion of Islam that promises beautiful virgins in heaven for all good Muslim men.Way different. Because you aren't required to be a martyr.

The gall, that a belief system would give the male species the power to ressurrect their wives, is blasphemous.Christ gives the power.

Oh, friend of the Jews.........Your religion is most, male biased and based in your favor. Women must be subservientThe Bible is a lot harder on women than we are. At least it would seem that way without prophetic interpretation. How about Paul telling women they are to be silent and if they will learn anything they must ask their husbands in the home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church., though Jesus said in heaven, that their is no marriage,No it doesn't yet the relationship between saved believers will trump any and all earthly relationships beyond belief. No where in the bible is sexual intercourse after death indicatedThere is not much at all that is told about what happens on the other side. So we should just assume nothing happens then right?, nor did Paul teach that we could somehow baptize those who have diedYes he did in 1st Corinthians15:29. Jesus gave a very direct parable/story of a rich man(not his friend who had sisters Mary and Martha), but a fictitional man who lived a life of selfish greed, and ignored the pleadings of a suffering man(Lazarus) at his doorstep. Jesus said that the vast "gulf" would separate this rich man from the poor man/Lazarus in heaven who would be mercifully loved, and nourished by God. The rich man pleaded for just a drop of water that the poor man/Lazarus was receiving, and Jesus said........."Nope!". "What the rich man did while on planet earth, sealed his fate.". "The unloving, unmerciful rich man wasn't even given permission to warn his still-living relatives of what fate trully lie ahead for the unrighteous.". No, baptising the rich man in the name of Jesus after his departing earthly bounds would not change his fate......Author Jesus Christ.I agree with you. Are you trying to argue with me?

Mormonism just exudes of manmade, fleshly, ideas, and directions of living, that do not enhance or help one to see the humility, nor the humbleness that exemplifies the true biblical, Christian life while on earth.

J.S. jr. and Brigham Young both preached sermons that diametrically opposed God's very clear and emphatic teachings both by Jesus Himself and His disciples who wrote numerous epistles.Only according to your interpretation.

Polygamy was not approved of by God,Where is it denounced in the Bible?The only scripture you will find that denounces it is in the Book of Mormon Jacob chapter 2. The mind of God is explained on the matter. though some of the well known folks of the O.T. did it anyway. Interestingly, they all seemed to fall into polygamy at times when they were straying from God's commandmentsThat is speculation at best., were making decisions without including God's help, and started to worship pagan dietys. Solomon was a monogamous man, until he fell into temptation and married the Non-Jewish Queen of ShebaShe assimilated, he didn't. Polygamy was endorsed at this time among God's people.. From thence onward he allowed her polytheistic beliefs to be observed in Israel. Outcome: Solomon's life became hellish, and you just have to read the book of Ecclesiastes to understand how he so much regretted his back-slide of faith from Jehovah.
*****
Joseph and Brigham lived lives that were not even close to the exemplary lives of the prophets of the O.T.. They taught fleshly humanistic teachings that fed the fleshly side of humanity, rather than the Spiritual. It of course was popularIt was decidedly unpopular, even among the leaders of the Church who were only doing as the Lord instructed. Joseph and Brigham both were reluctant to do their duties in this case., as the human race likes validation for sin, and fleshly, and unGodly living.
*******

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know....I really like wikipedia......

Joseph Smith never went to church as a child, but did study "folk religion".....

Early years

Main article: Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr.

Joseph Smith, Jr. was born on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont to Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith, a poor farm family. After Joseph's birth, they moved to western New York—a region of intense religious activity during the Second Great Awakening—where they continued to farm just outside the town of Palmyra. Although Smith never joined a church during his youth, he did read the Bible and was also influenced by the folk religion of that time and place.[1]

He couldn't keep his stories straight concerning his "first vision", which incidentally, I think was one of his first cons.........

First Vision

Main article: First Vision

In 1832 (when he first recorded the experience), Smith said that as a fourteen-year-old in 1820, he had received a theophany, an appearance of God to man, an event that Latter Day Saints commonly call the First Vision. Smith recorded several accounts of this experience,[2] and the version later canonized by the LDS Church was first publicly revealed in 1838.[3]

Smith said that he had been concerned about what denomination to join and prayed in a nearby woods (now called the Sacred Grove). There he had a vision in which he saw God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ as two separate, glorious, resurrected beings of flesh and bone. They told him that no contemporary church was correct in its teachings, and that he should join none of them.[4]

And.....if he was a mostly unsuccessful seer, then how in the fuck did he all of a sudden get it right?

Golden Plates

Main article: Golden plates

Meanwhile Smith participated in a "craze for treasure hunting."[5]Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was paid to act as a "seer", using seer stones in mostly unsuccessful attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure. [6] Smith's contemporaries describe his process for finding treasure as placing the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.[7] His preferred stone, which some said he also used later to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,[8] found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.[9]

During this period Smith said he experienced a visitation from an angel named Moroni[10] who directed him to a long-buried book, inscribed on golden plates, which contained a record of God's dealings with ancient Israelite inhabitants of the Americas. This record, along with other artifacts (including a breastplate and what Smith referred to as the Urim and Thummim), was buried in a hill near his home. On September 22, 1827, Smith said that after four years of waiting and preparation, the angel allowed him to take possession of the plates and other artifacts. Almost immediately thereafter local people tried to discover where the plates were hidden.[11]

Smith left his family farm in October 1825 and was hired by Josiah Stowall, of nearby Chenango county, to search for a Spanish silver mine by gazing at seer stones.[12] In March 1826, Smith was charged with being a "disorderly person and an impostor" by a court in nearby Bainbridge.[13]

Smith also met Emma Hale during this period and married her on January 18, 1827. Emma eventually gave birth to seven children, three of whom died shortly after birth. The Smiths also adopted twins.[14](See Children of Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So.........with just this little bit of information, how in the hell can (what I would presume is a reasonably intelligent person), fall for such a fraud?

 

[Truthspeaker]

You know....I really like wikipedia......

Joseph Smith never went to church as a child, but did study "folk religion".....

Early years

Main article: Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr.

Joseph Smith, Jr. was born on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont to Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith, a poor farm family. After Joseph's birth, they moved to western New York—a region of intense religious activity during the Second Great Awakening—where they continued to farm just outside the town of Palmyra. Although Smith never joined a church during his youth, he did read the Bible and was also influenced by the folk religion of that time and place.[1]

He couldn't keep his stories straight concerning his "first vision", which incidentally, I think was one of his first cons.........When you tell stories more than once to a friend, there are bound to be a few differences in the words used. You usually get better at expaining the story over time as you get a better grip on your vocabulary. Just because different accounts were written doesn't mean there was contradiction in the subject matter. If there was show me the contradictions

First Vision

Main article: First Vision

In 1832 (when he first recorded the experience), Smith said that as a fourteen-year-old in 1820, he had received a theophany, an appearance of God to man, an event that Latter Day Saints commonly call the First Vision. Smith recorded several accounts of this experience,[2] and the version later canonized by the LDS Church was first publicly revealed in 1838.[3]Show me the contradictory statements

Smith said that he had been concerned about what denomination to join and prayed in a nearby woods (now called the Sacred Grove). There he had a vision in which he saw God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ as two separate, glorious, resurrected beings of flesh and bone. They told him that no contemporary church was correct in its teachings, and that he should join none of them.[4]

And.....if he was a mostly unsuccessful seer, then how in the fuck did he all of a sudden get it right?He never got it wrong.

Golden Plates

Main article: Golden plates

Meanwhile Smith participated in a "craze for treasure hunting."[5]Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was paid to act as a "seer", using seer stones in mostly unsuccessful attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure. [6] Smith's contemporaries describe his process for finding treasure as placing the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.[7] His preferred stone, which some said he also used later to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,[8] found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.[9]

During this period Smith said he experienced a visitation from an angel named Moroni[10] who directed him to a long-buried book, inscribed on golden plates, which contained a record of God's dealings with ancient Israelite inhabitants of the Americas. This record, along with other artifacts (including a breastplate and what Smith referred to as the Urim and Thummim), was buried in a hill near his home. On September 22, 1827, Smith said that after four years of waiting and preparation, the angel allowed him to take possession of the plates and other artifacts. Almost immediately thereafter local people tried to discover where the plates were hidden.[11]

Smith left his family farm in October 1825 and was hired by Josiah Stowall, of nearby Chenango county, to search for a Spanish silver mine by gazing at seer stones.[12] In March 1826, Smith was charged with being a "disorderly person and an impostor" by a court in nearby Bainbridge.[13]

Smith also met Emma Hale during this period and married her on January 18, 1827. Emma eventually gave birth to seven children, three of whom died shortly after birth. The Smiths also adopted twins.[14](See Children of Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So.........with just this little bit of information, how in the hell can (what I would presume is a reasonably intelligent person), fall for such a fraud?

I answered the question of the seer stones in Bible vs Book of Mormon thread.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You are blinded from reading by the myopic stupidity that you keep between your ears.

Listed dude......I just pulled it off of Wiki, because you were sounding like you were pretty full up on shit, and I wanted to see what was REALLY going on.

But.....if you can't accept wiki as a good reference site, just your Moronisim beliefs, hey.....

Be happy in your ignorance.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You are blinded from reading by the myopic stupidity that you keep between your ears.

Listed dude......I just pulled it off of Wiki, because you were sounding like you were pretty full up on shit, and I wanted to see what was REALLY going on.

But.....if you can't accept wiki as a good reference site, just your Moronisim beliefs, hey.....

Be happy in your ignorance.

 

[Truthspeaker]

You are blinded from reading by the myopic stupidity that you keep between your ears.

Listed dude......I just pulled it off of Wiki, because you were sounding like you were pretty full up on shit, and I wanted to see what was REALLY going on.

But.....if you can't accept wiki as a good reference site, just your Moronisim beliefs, hey.....

Be happy in your ignorance.

I never said Wiki wasn't a good reference. I just repeated what they repeated. They are a neutral site. They don't take sides. They reported what his "contemporaries" and "some" claimed, to use their own words.
Why don't you rev up your Honda and go drive off an aircraft carrier.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You are blinded from reading by the myopic stupidity that you keep between your ears.

Listed dude......I just pulled it off of Wiki, because you were sounding like you were pretty full up on shit, and I wanted to see what was REALLY going on.

But.....if you can't accept wiki as a good reference site, just your Moronisim beliefs, hey.....

Be happy in your ignorance.

I never said Wiki wasn't a good reference. I just repeated what they repeated. They are a neutral site. They don't take sides. They reported what his "contemporaries" and "some" claimed, to use their own words.
Why don't you rev up your Honda and go drive off an aircraft carrier.

No, you did not "just repeated what they repeated". You said that they were wrong, because you stated (in the wiki reference I might add), that Smith didn't get the stones until AFTER he found the gold tablets.

Wiki says before.

I trust them over you.

 

[Eightball]

You know....I really like wikipedia......

Joseph Smith never went to church as a child, but did study "folk religion".....

Early years

Main article: Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr.

Joseph Smith, Jr. was born on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont to Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith, a poor farm family. After Joseph's birth, they moved to western New York—a region of intense religious activity during the Second Great Awakening—where they continued to farm just outside the town of Palmyra. Although Smith never joined a church during his youth, he did read the Bible and was also influenced by the folk religion of that time and place.[1]

He couldn't keep his stories straight concerning his "first vision", which incidentally, I think was one of his first cons.........

First Vision

Main article: First Vision

In 1832 (when he first recorded the experience), Smith said that as a fourteen-year-old in 1820, he had received a theophany, an appearance of God to man, an event that Latter Day Saints commonly call the First Vision. Smith recorded several accounts of this experience,[2] and the version later canonized by the LDS Church was first publicly revealed in 1838.[3]

Smith said that he had been concerned about what denomination to join and prayed in a nearby woods (now called the Sacred Grove). There he had a vision in which he saw God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ as two separate, glorious, resurrected beings of flesh and bone. They told him that no contemporary church was correct in its teachings, and that he should join none of them.[4]

And.....if he was a mostly unsuccessful seer, then how in the fuck did he all of a sudden get it right?

Golden Plates

Main article: Golden plates

Meanwhile Smith participated in a "craze for treasure hunting."[5]Beginning as a youth in the early 1820s, Smith was paid to act as a "seer", using seer stones in mostly unsuccessful attempts to locate lost items and buried treasure. [6] Smith's contemporaries describe his process for finding treasure as placing the stone in a white stovepipe hat, putting his face over the hat to block the light, and then "seeing" the information in the reflections of the stone.[7] His preferred stone, which some said he also used later to translate the golden plates, was chocolate-colored and about the size of an egg,[8] found in a deep well he helped dig for one of his neighbors.[9]

During this period Smith said he experienced a visitation from an angel named Moroni[10] who directed him to a long-buried book, inscribed on golden plates, which contained a record of God's dealings with ancient Israelite inhabitants of the Americas. This record, along with other artifacts (including a breastplate and what Smith referred to as the Urim and Thummim), was buried in a hill near his home. On September 22, 1827, Smith said that after four years of waiting and preparation, the angel allowed him to take possession of the plates and other artifacts. Almost immediately thereafter local people tried to discover where the plates were hidden.[11]

Smith left his family farm in October 1825 and was hired by Josiah Stowall, of nearby Chenango county, to search for a Spanish silver mine by gazing at seer stones.[12] In March 1826, Smith was charged with being a "disorderly person and an impostor" by a court in nearby Bainbridge.[13]

Smith also met Emma Hale during this period and married her on January 18, 1827. Emma eventually gave birth to seven children, three of whom died shortly after birth. The Smiths also adopted twins.[14](See Children of Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So.........with just this little bit of information, how in the hell can (what I would presume is a reasonably intelligent person), fall for such a fraud?

They just do, because they often have parents, grandparents, and great grandparents that follwed, the "Principle", and they believe because their loved one's and ancestors did.

They don't want to know the real Joseph Smith Jr. nor the real Brigham Young, nor any of the sorly characters that make up the founding prophets, of the LDS church.

People are sucked into modern day Mormonism because it projects this image of "leave to beaver" family life, apple pie, and the American flag. That's all and nice, but that isn't what makes up believing in God.

Having a bonafide relationship with God, is clearly explained in the bible. It is a very clearly written, communicated book. It doesn't need additional books to make it accurate or more clear. The Book of Mormon is just loaded with plagarism from the bible with changes of names of the book titles..........It is the ramblings of a most intelligent man, Joseph Smith Jr.. It takes great intelligence to dupe thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of people into accepting what you teach as the "truth".

One of the many attributes of Christ was His humbleness and humility. Also His true followers or those that are trully converted by the work of the Holy Spirit, also will reveal in their behaviours more and more Christlike attitudes, outward and inward. God's sanctifying process starts on day one of any person who becomes a true Christian. One's conscience become more sensitive to sin, and the things that embarrass or bring a bad name to God. It is a life long process in a Christian's life. God is in the business of making His Children more Christlike so that they will bring glory to Him and His beloved Son, Jesus Christ.

Truthspeaker's name exudes pride..........."I have the truth". No Christian abiding in Christ, and following the leading of God's Spirit would banter that name on any forum, as it exudes big letter "P" pride in one's self.

God is in the business of removing the fleshly "self" and fleshly "pride" in His children, and replacing it with the love, patience, peace, joy, long-suffering, and passion of His Spirit or Life.

This can't be said for Truthspeaker, nor the basically tenents of LDS doctrine. It is a doctrine of selt adulation, via a type of legalism, that see's God as a "Sugar Daddy" whom they will spend a lifetime trying to please inorder to work towards their own male godhood.

God said plainly that their will and never has been any other gods before "Me". Not so with the LDS doctrine. All male Mormons who live a life in good standing can have a shot at becoming Saviours and or god's of their own earths. They also get to pro-create their own races of humans.

Also........Mormons believe that every child born was or was a little spiritual being waiting to get a body one day......i.e........get born on earth. This has all been hatched from the wildly imaginative mind of Joseph Smith Jr., Brigham Y. and other notable early Mormons.
******
You mentioned the Golden plates. Ever wonder why God would present them with a language that wasn't American english, but some alleged reformed Egyptian heiroglyphics?

Even Moses got tablets from God at Mt. Sinai that were in the Israelites language of understanding. No translation needed!

Joseph Smith Jr. stuck his head in the noose of liars when he gave the dimensions of the golden plates. When he did that, he also gave the approximate weight of these plates, at roughly 230 lbs.! Now it is recorded that Joseph Smith Jr. ran a great distance with these very heavy plates. It is also recorded that J.S. Jr. had a bad leg/knee that affected his ability to have a normal human gate or walk. So he ran a long distance carrying 1/8th of a ton of gold. This is one amazing man!

Our on forum Mormons want to defend polygamy by stating that God never spoke against it. He didn't have to! In every case of polygamy it resulted in family discord, disfunction, and usually ocurred when the husband abandoned His trust in God, and resorted to his own will to live out his life.

Don't get me wrong. Mormons project wonderful, clean living lives, but scratch the surface and find out what drives that life and you will find that Mormons have the highest per-capita rate of alcoholism of any religious group in this country! Now remember, that few Mormons drink alcohol, but per capita means those that do drink or what us non-truth bearers would call, "Jack Mormons".

Mormons are driven by their faith, not in a healthy way, but in a way, that isn't that different from many other cults, and occult groups. They must "perform" in order to maintain their position or place before their "exacting" god. They must tithe at incredible rates, regardless of their financial means/state.

Also, you will find that the Mormon church is very much involved in the monetary motive, of earthly gain, via their many secular, corporate holdings.......Last time I recalled, the Marriot chain of hotels was owned by the LDS church. Where is the Christian ministry or outreach to evangelize the world in that endeavor? It is just a corporate venture putting millions into the church's coffers.

I do admitt their are some Christian denominations that have strayed and gone into the corporate, secular realm to raise funds, and that is not right IMO.

The church stands or falls on the merit, of it's founder, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. The true "church" is the body of believers, regardless of whether they are Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, Pentacostals, or non-denominational. Christ's church is people. They are the arms, legs, hands, fingers, feet, and Jesus is the "Head". These believers have a common unity and bond. It is the Holy Spirit that was given to each of them upon their salvation. Because of the Holy Spirit, there is a bond that crosses denominations and non-denominations. It is a the Spirit of unity, in Christ, and all that He is and all that He has taught through the Word.

Living a "Leave To Beaver" family life is going to gain any Brownie Points with God. He doesn't want your actions of niceness. He wants your lives of total surrender. Afterall, "Lord" is His title. Lord means He is or should be in charge. Mormons misconstrue works of niceness and clean living as the means or way to appease or please God, and make, "Heavenly Father" happy with them.

Sadly, the scriptures say that when we became Christians, our Heavenly Father was and is most pleased with us. If we sit on our fat butts and fail to allow Him to work His sanctifying work in us, then we are the losers, as we will miss out on so much adventure of life being used by Him to further His kingdom. Never the less, every one of His children are in His fold, and can't be snatched away.

Mormons must do their missions, they must strive, strive, strive in order to "be". Bible Christians don't strive to "be". They already have the "be" taken care of. It's called a relationship, or identity. They can call God, "daddy" "father" "Poppa"........and it is fitting because they are His children from day-one of their salvation.

Getting back to the high alcoholism rate; that is part and partial of the inherent guilt that runs through the LDS congregation, that perfections and pleasing is part and partial to have that relationship in good standing with their god. It's an impossibility, just like Paul said that no one can meet the Law, and therefore Christ fullfilled it, and we can live by "grace" and rest in that position before God, who has totally accepted us on Jesus' merit, not our own.

 

[Avatar4321]

Interesting.........Moronism is a cult based on racist beliefs..........

And people say they are such nice folks........

Which, of course, is why when we turn to the Book of Mormon we find the following clearly taught:

33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile. (2 Nephi 26:33)

 

[Avatar4321]

You are blinded from reading by the myopic stupidity that you keep between your ears.

Listed dude......I just pulled it off of Wiki, because you were sounding like you were pretty full up on shit, and I wanted to see what was REALLY going on.

But.....if you can't accept wiki as a good reference site, just your Moronisim beliefs, hey.....

Be happy in your ignorance.

Not many people do accept wiki for scholarly insight. Because it can be editted by anyone. It might be nice for an overview, but its hardly conclusive and reliable for everything said.

Most people when they want to learn facts, go to the source. That would be the Book of Mormon and the revelations revealed in the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. To a lesser extend to the recent Conference addresses.

Ive read countless books both pro and con to mormonism. Ive visited countless websites for and against it. Ive been studying it longer than my adult life. And you think you can convince me with a reference to wiki?

The only reason I even started believing it was because the critics accounts were so different from reality and because they produced such easily disputed criticisms that there had to be some reason they couldnt just be honest about the facts and put Mormonism down. It caused me to investigate and find out for myself.

So you might convince people here who havent studied. And that might satisfy yourself completely. I understand that. You think its bunk. I get that. But if you think Im just going to start agreeing with you because youve said so then you're mistaken. I dont expect people to believe something because I say so. I expect them to do research and learn. So im not going to just believe someone else because they say so.

I think thats only fair.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, you did not "just repeated what they repeated". You said that they were wrong, because you stated (in the wiki reference I might add), that Smith didn't get the stones until AFTER he found the gold tablets.

Wiki says before.

I trust them over you.

Cause of course some random website always knows more about what someone believes than that individual does. Of course.

Not that it matters, but Joseph recieved the Urim and Thumim with the plates.

 

[Truthspeaker]

You are blinded from reading by the myopic stupidity that you keep between your ears.

Listed dude......I just pulled it off of Wiki, because you were sounding like you were pretty full up on shit, and I wanted to see what was REALLY going on.

But.....if you can't accept wiki as a good reference site, just your Moronisim beliefs, hey.....

Be happy in your ignorance.

I never said Wiki wasn't a good reference. I just repeated what they repeated. They are a neutral site. They don't take sides. They reported what his "contemporaries" and "some" claimed, to use their own words.
Why don't you rev up your Honda and go drive off an aircraft carrier.

No, you did not "just repeated what they repeated". You said that they were wrong, because you stated (in the wiki reference I might add), that Smith didn't get the stones until AFTER he found the gold tablets.

Wiki says before.

I trust them over you.

You know what, I just learned something; after doing a little more research, I found that Joseph did find two seer stones aside from the ones buried with the plates. The difference between them was that they were two individual stones, one whitish and one chocolate colored.
Whereas the Urim and Thummim were clear stones set in a spectacle-like rim but bigger than normal glasses. He did use them as well I found. I see no problem with it since he was authorized of God to see such things.
Even so, I don't know why it's a big issue. Thanks for the Wiki reference; It showed me more cool stuff about the Prophet that I didn't know before

 

[Avatar4321]

You know what, I just learned something; after doing a little more research, I found that Joseph did find two seer stones aside from the ones buried with the plates. The difference between them was that they were two individual stones, one whitish and one chocolate colored.
Whereas the Urim and Thummim were clear stones set in a spectacle-like rim but bigger than normal glasses. He did use them as well I found. I see no problem with it since he was authorized of God to see such things.
Even so, I don't know why it's a big issue. Thanks for the Wiki reference; It showed me more cool stuff about the Prophet that I didn't know before

I believe the seer stone (IE not the Urim and Thumim) is actually in Salt Lake as we speak.

 

[DavidS]

I see Truthspeaker is completely ignoring my posts. How interesting.

 

[Truthspeaker]

They just do, because they often have parents, grandparents, and great grandparents that follwedJust because we are exposed to it doesn't mean we should reject it. We still have to think for ourselves if we are going to live such a rigid life. I would think willingness to abstain from the things we do would be evidence of our own independant thought, since most of those substances induce loss of self control., the "Principle", and they believe because their loved one's and ancestors did.

They don't want to know the real Joseph Smith Jr.Oh believe me there isn't the dirtiest darkest secret you could bring up about Joseph that I haven't heard. I have learned to sift through what is believable and what is not. nor the real Brigham Young, nor any of the sorly charactershah, as if you really know them. I study them, you don't. You may look up negative press about them but you don't read their books cover to cover like I do so you are missing substance that I have. Anybody can read just one side of the story, but it takes true unbias to read both sides. that make up the founding prophets, of the LDS church.

People are sucked You say that like we don't have a choice or we are hoodwinked somehow.into modern day Mormonism because it projects this image of "leave to beaver" family life, apple pie, and the American flagWhat a bigoted statement. That's all and nice, but that isn't what makes up believing in God.

Having a bonafide relationship with God, is clearly explained in the bible. It is a very clearly written, communicated book. It doesn't need additional books to make it accurate or more clear. The Book of Mormon is just loaded with plagarism quoting is not plagiarism smarty pantsfrom the bible with changes of names of the book titles..........It is the ramblings of a most intelligent man, Joseph Smith Jr.. It takes great intelligence to dupe thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of people into accepting what you teach as the "truth".

One of the many attributes of Christ was His humbleness and humilityJews against him thought he was proud and arrogant too. Not to mention blasphemous. They jumped to the same conclusions about him that you do about Joseph.. Also His true followers or those that are trully converted by the work of the Holy Spirit, also will reveal in their behaviours more and more Christlike attitudes, outward and inward. God's sanctifying process starts on day one of any person who becomes a true Christian. One's conscience become more sensitive to sin, and the things that embarrass or bring a bad name to God. It is a life long process in a Christian's life. God is in the business of making His Children more Christlike so that they will bring glory to Him and His beloved Son, Jesus Christ.No arguments here.

Truthspeaker's name exudes pride..........."I have the truth". No Christian abiding in Christ, and following the leading of God's Spirit would banter that name on any forum, as it exudes big letter "P" pride in one's self. When Jesus said he was the great I AM, they thought that was pretty prideful too. So they crucified him. They would have joined the mob that murdered Joseph too.

God is in the business of removing the fleshly "self" and fleshly "pride" in His children, and replacing it with the love, patience, peace, joy, long-suffering, and passion of His Spirit or Life.

This can't be said for TruthspeakerAs if you know how I lead my life. That's rich., nor the basically tenents of LDS doctrine.The doctrine is rock solid in the faith of Christ but we've been here before, you just ignore it. It is a doctrine of selt adulation, via a type of legalism, that see's God as a "Sugar Daddy" whom they will spend a lifetime trying to please inorder to work towards their own male godhood.And female godesses too

God said plainly that their will and never has been any other gods before "Me"True there are none and we don't put any before him either.. Not so with the LDS doctrine. All male Mormons who live a life in good standing can have a shot at becoming Saviours and or god's of their own earths. They also get to pro-create their own races of humans.
So what, we still worship God, he just explained the reward to us...Don't be jealous.
Also........Mormons believe that every child born was or was a little spiritual being waiting to get a body one day......i.e........get born on earth. This has all been hatched from the wildly imaginative mind of Joseph Smith Jr., Brigham Y. and other notable early Mormons.
******
You mentioned the Golden plates. Ever wonder why God would present them with a language that wasn't American englishSure do, because God shows things as they really are and not as you want them to be. The people who lived back then didn't speak english, so God helped Joseph translate them., but some alleged reformed Egyptian heiroglyphics?

Even Moses got tablets from God at Mt. Sinai that were in the Israelites language of understanding. No translation needed!
How stupid is this comment of yours? the book of mormon wasn't written by the finger of God. It was written by inspired men in ancient days like the bible.
Joseph Smith Jr. stuck his head in the noose of liars when he gave the dimensions of the golden plates. When he did that, he also gave the approximate weight of these plates, at roughly 230 lbs.! Now it is recorded that Joseph Smith Jr. ran a great distance with these very heavy plates. It is also recorded that J.S. Jr. had a bad leg/knee that affected his ability to have a normal human gate or walk. So he ran a long distance carrying 1/8th of a ton of gold. This is one amazing man![/COLOR]I'll second that! Soldiers in times of war have gone such a distance while hauling deadweigted soldiers on their shoulders. something a little heavier and much more compact would be easier to do than that.[/COLOR]

Our on forum Mormons want to defend polygamy by stating that God never spoke against it. He didn't have to! In every case Baloney. just because one marriage doesn't work doesn't mean others haven't. It's up to the individuals involved. And like all marriages other than your own.... It's none of your business.of polygamy it resulted in family discord, disfunction, and usually ocurred when the husband abandoned His trust in God, and resorted to his own will to live out his life.

Don't get me wrong. Mormons project wonderful, clean living lives, but scratch the surface and find out what drives that life and you will find that Mormons have the highest per-capita rate of alcoholism I've heard these wild claims before but have never seen any good sources.of any religious group in this country! Now remember, that few Mormons drink alcohol, but per capita means those that do drink or what us non-truth bearers would call, "Jack Mormons". Jack Mormons are not mormons. They have abandoned the religion and are no longer affiliated with us.

Mormons are driven by their faith, not in a healthy way, but in a way, that isn't that different from many other cults, and occult groups. They must "perform" in order to maintain their position or place before their "exacting" god.http://declan10.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/throw-up1.jpg They must tithe at incredible rates, regardless of their financial means/state.

Also, you will find that the Mormon church is very much involved in the monetary motive, of earthly gain, via their many secular, corporate holdings.......Last time I recalled, the Marriot chain of hotels was owned by the LDS churchNo just a Mormon guy, Marriott himself. Where is the Christian ministry or outreach to evangelize the world in that endeavor? It is just a corporate venture putting millions into the church's coffers.You do know that no individuals are paid right? The money is 100% tracked and accounted for in it's religious applications and programs.

I do admitt their are some Christian denominations that have strayed and gone into the corporate, secular realm to raise funds, and that is not right IMO.

The church stands or falls on the merit, of it's founder, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. The true "church" is the body of believers, regardless of whether they are Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, Pentacostals, or non-denominational.They all teach doctrines that conflict with the other. God is not the author of this. Christ's church is people. They are the arms, legs, hands, fingers, feet, and Jesus is the "Head". These believers have a common unity and bond. It is the Holy Spirit that was given to each of them upon their salvation. Because of the Holy Spirit, there is a bond that crosses denominations and non-denominations. It is a the Spirit of unity, in Christ, and all that He is and all that He has taught through the Word.

Living a "Leave To Beaver" family life is going to gain any Brownie Points with God. He doesn't want your actions of niceness.Yes he does. See parable of good Samaritan He wants your lives of total surrender. Afterall, "Lord" is His title. Lord means He is or should be in charge. Mormons misconstrue works of niceness and clean living as the means or way to appease or please God, and make, "Heavenly Father" happy with them.Darn skippy

Sadly, the scriptures say that when we became Christians, our Heavenly Father was and is most pleased with us. If we sit on our fat buttsyour fat butts. and fail to allow Him to work His sanctifying work in us, then we are the losers, as we will miss out on so much adventure of life being used by Him to further His kingdom. Never the less, every one of His children are in His fold, and can't be snatched away.

Mormons must do their missions, they must strive, strive, strive in order to "be". Bible Christians don't strive to "be".Well I'd rather BE somebody in Hell than a nobody in Heaven They already have the "be" taken care of. It's called a relationship, or identity. They can call God, "daddy" "father" "Poppa"........and it is fitting because they are His children from day-one of their salvation.

Getting back to the high alcoholism rate;g

getting back to those sources​

that is part and partial of the inherent guilt that runs through the LDS congregation, that perfections and pleasing is part and partial to have that relationship in good standing with their god. It's an impossibility, just like Paul said that no one can meet the Law, and therefore Christ fullfilled it, and we can live by "grace" and rest in that position before God, who has totally accepted us on Jesus' merit, not our own.[/QUOTE]


You never cease to amaze me pool ball. You would rather be the 8-ball and I would rather be the white ball smackin you into the hole you belong in.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I see Truthspeaker is completely ignoring my posts. How interesting.

Really, well maybe I should; But I didn't think I needed to repeat what others have said. What issue would you like me to address?

 

[Avatar4321]

I see Truthspeaker is completely ignoring my posts. How interesting.

*scratching my head*

how exactly do you figure that? He has been responding to your posts almost immediately after them. not that youve had tons in this thread.

 

[Truthspeaker]

 

[ABikerSailor]

I think I'm gonna read the book of Moronisim.

Let's see what kind of crap they're REALLY spewing...........