The truth on being saved.

[Chuckt]

See this video of St. Theresa of Avila's vision of hell - even her spirit as it entered hell and see what she saw and felt the torments and tortures of hell in her own body - notice that her testimony is quite precise and in alignment with the visions of Mary K. Baxter who also went there during prayer - in the spirit and then do yourself a favor and look up John Bunyans book, Divine Revelation of Hell and read it and you shall see all of these people - yes, even Bill Weise - speak of the same experiences - the very same experiences - how is that possible, Chuck? How is that possible when Avila lives centuries ago! She has been in heaven for centuries now! Watch the video, turn up the speakers and read her words..

Theresa of Avila's testimony on her vision Hell:

Saint Teresa of Avila had a vision of hell: - YouTube

I could care less because it isn't as important as my creator God:

Isaiah 40:25 "To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One.

You are posting a video on a person's words which aren't a prophet or God's words. You are comparing a mere mortal's words and elevating it to that of scripture and that is idolatry.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

See this video of St. Theresa of Avila's vision of hell - even her spirit as it entered hell and see what she saw and felt the torments and tortures of hell in her own body - notice that her testimony is quite precise and in alignment with the visions of Mary K. Baxter who also went there during prayer - in the spirit and then do yourself a favor and look up John Bunyans book, Divine Revelation of Hell and read it and you shall see all of these people - yes, even Bill Weise - speak of the same experiences - the very same experiences - how is that possible, Chuck? How is that possible when Avila lives centuries ago! She has been in heaven for centuries now! Watch the video, turn up the speakers and read her words..

Theresa of Avila's testimony on her vision Hell:

Saint Teresa of Avila had a vision of hell: - YouTube

I could care less because it isn't as important as my creator God:

Isaiah 40:25 "To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One.

You are posting a video on a person's words which aren't a prophet or God's words. You are comparing a mere mortal's words and elevating it to that of scripture and that is idolatry.

I am quoting a woman who lived a far holier life than you have demonstrated by your own words and actions on this board, Chuck. I am quoting a woman who had inner locutions and heard the audible voice of the Lord and was a great spiritual director to a great many people and the larger of which was her audience "after her death" not before. You have no idea who Avila was apparently so perhaps it is better for me to give you someone you should be a bit more familiar with? How about John Bunyan, author of over 40 Christian books and the author of the famous classic, "Pilgrims Progress".. or would you prefer to accuse him of being a liar also in order to justify yourself?

Watch the video first. A wise man considers the evidence by examining it first - before he condemns it! A novel idea for some I admit but for a bible scholar? I believe you should first have a look at these testimonies. It certainly cannot harm you and it might even save your soul!

[ame=http://youtu.be/gLsHSL-2_h0]Vision of Heaven and Hell - John Bunyan - YouTube[/ame]

I must apologise in that I am mistaken about the title of Bunyans' book - it has been over a decade since I read his account - the correct title of his book is Visions of heaven and hell. I believe there are two books with the title Divine Revelation of Hell and cannot recall who the other one was written by. I will have to look that up. I believe Julian of Norwich had visions of hell too but her book was called Divine Revelation of Love. Perhaps she mentioned it also. I cannot recall.
( another catholic )

 

[Chuckt]

I am quoting a woman who lived a far holier life than you have demonstrated by your own words and actions on this board, Chuck. I am quoting a woman who had inner locutions and heard the audible voice of the Lord and was a great spiritual director to a great many people and the larger of which was her audience "after her death" not before. You have no idea who Avila was apparently so perhaps it is better for me to give you someone you should be a bit more familiar with? How about John Bunyan, author of over 40 Christian books and the author of the famous classic, "Pilgrims Progress".. or would you prefer to accuse him of being a liar also in order to justify yourself?

It is counter to the Reformation:

Sola Scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the doctrine that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness. Consequently, Sola Scriptura demands only those doctrines are to be admitted or confessed that are found directly within or indirectly by using valid logical deduction or valid deductive reasoning from Scripture. However, Sola Scriptura is not a denial of other authorities governing Christian life and devotion. Rather, it simply demands that all other authorities are subordinate to, and are to be corrected by, the written word of God. Sola Scriptura was a foundational doctrinal principle of the Protestant Reformation held by the Reformers and is a formal principle of Protestantism today (see Five solas).

Sola scriptura - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It goes beyond scripture and is another doctrine.

1 Timothy 1:3 ¶ As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1 Timothy 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a fo

 

[theword]

Gods word teaches this( bottom line) --Those who endure till the end will be saved.---
Not one of us has reached the end.
There would be 1 of 2 requirements by a mortal man to know if another is saved--
1) He would have had to see ones name written in the book of life.-- he has not.
2) He would have to be able to read anothers true heart---he cannot

Thus no mortal alive knows if one is saved-- here is a prime example.

On TV Mr Joel Osteen says--say these 3 lines of prayer and you are born again( saved). about 1000 in audience, 10,000 plus on tv--He doesn't know 1/10th of them--now they all say these 3 lines and go through life thinking they are saved--yet some are workers of iniquities who walk the broad and spacious path. and I believe that as much as he had no clue about the workers of iniquity he told were saved, he has no clue about any just as no mortal does. He is elevating himself into Gods [position by teaching those are saved as any teacher who does I believe is a teacher of darkness( 2 Corinthians 11:12-15)

ALL God's created people in spirit have been saved according to His eternal plan. Religious people have no patience to wait until their flesh perishes so they can wake up in the new age.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.

I Corinthians 3:

13: each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
14: If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
15: If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Isaiah 45:
20: "Assemble yourselves and come, draw near together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save.
21: Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
22: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
23: By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: `To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'
24: "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed, all who were incensed against him.
25: In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall triumph and glory."

Titus 2:11
11: For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,

Isaiah 25: 6-9
6: On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wine on the lees well refined.
7: And he will destroy on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations.
8: He will swallow up death for ever, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth; for the LORD has spoken.
9: It will be said on that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I do not endorse or follow the teachings of Copeland or Hagin. I merely stated both men had told their stories of having seen hell. Obviously something that disturbs you greatly, Chuck. One must wonder why. I have provided the video for the testimony of the great Christian, John Bunyan. You can hear him tell his testimony of his visions of hell and heaven. Surely you will not accuse John Bunyan, author of Pilgrim's Progress, of being a liar. Not without listening to his story first. I hope.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am quoting a woman who lived a far holier life than you have demonstrated by your own words and actions on this board, Chuck. I am quoting a woman who had inner locutions and heard the audible voice of the Lord and was a great spiritual director to a great many people and the larger of which was her audience "after her death" not before. You have no idea who Avila was apparently so perhaps it is better for me to give you someone you should be a bit more familiar with? How about John Bunyan, author of over 40 Christian books and the author of the famous classic, "Pilgrims Progress".. or would you prefer to accuse him of being a liar also in order to justify yourself?

It is counter to the Reformation:

Sola Scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the doctrine that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness. Consequently, Sola Scriptura demands only those doctrines are to be admitted or confessed that are found directly within or indirectly by using valid logical deduction or valid deductive reasoning from Scripture. However, Sola Scriptura is not a denial of other authorities governing Christian life and devotion. Rather, it simply demands that all other authorities are subordinate to, and are to be corrected by, the written word of God. Sola Scriptura was a foundational doctrinal principle of the Protestant Reformation held by the Reformers and is a formal principle of Protestantism today (see Five solas).

Sola scriptura - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It goes beyond scripture and is another doctrine.

1 Timothy 1:3 ¶ As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1 Timothy 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a fo

How preposterous coming from a man who claims he believes the Apostle Paul was married! Without a single shred of evidence in scripture to back it up with! Nevertheless, I shall provide you scripture!

It is written:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up into the third heaven. Whether it was out of body or in body I do not know - but God knows.

- 2 Corinthians 12: 3

I believe Paul was speaking of his own experience but he didn't want others to know he had been taken in the spirit to heaven to see it as he was a very humble man. Isaiah saw visions of heaven. Ezekiel saw visions of heaven. Do I have to provide you with those scriptures as well or can you find them on your own?

 

[theword]

I do not endorse or follow the teachings of Copeland or Hagin. I merely stated both men had told their stories of having seen hell. Obviously something that disturbs you greatly, Chuck. One must wonder why. I have provided the video for the testimony of the great Christian, John Bunyan. You can hear him tell his testimony of his visions of hell and heaven. Surely you will not accuse John Bunyan, author of Pilgrim's Progress, of being a liar. Not without listening to his story first. I hope.

John Bunyan is a sinner who lies with every word he speaks because he's not obeying the commandments of God. If he was obeying God, he would know that there is no hell. All us saints know there is no hell but we do know that all flesh will perish during this age and go back to the dust of the earth, even our flesh that was used to speak for our Creator.

1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

All sinners are liars. We saints were forgiven of ALL our sins and born again into His invisible Kingdom where all His hidden knowledge exists. From this hidden knowledge, we learn about God's delusion that's in the minds of all His people and the delusion that kept us saints from knowing Him when we were born into the flesh of this world.

 

[Chuckt]

I do not endorse or follow the teachings of Copeland or Hagin. I merely stated both men had told their stories of having seen hell. Obviously something that disturbs you greatly, Chuck. One must wonder why. I have provided the video for the testimony of the great Christian, John Bunyan. You can hear him tell his testimony of his visions of hell and heaven. Surely you will not accuse John Bunyan, author of Pilgrim's Progress, of being a liar. Not without listening to his story first. I hope.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Mediator means:

2. a medium of communication, arbitrator
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Jesus is the medium of communication and John Bunyan is not God's prophet and anyone who stands in the place of Jesus or the Apostles communicating is on shaky ground.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Satan shows things too. Just because someone claims a vision, a dream, etc., doesn't mean it is from God because Satan is a source of revelation:

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Chuckt]

How preposterous coming from a man who claims he believes the Apostle Paul was married! Without a single shred of evidence in scripture to back it up with! Nevertheless, I shall provide you scripture!

It is written:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up into the third heaven. Whether it was out of body or in body I do not know - but God knows.

- 2 Corinthians 12: 3

I believe Paul was speaking of his own experience but he didn't want others to know he had been taken in the spirit to heaven to see it as he was a very humble man. Isaiah saw visions of heaven. Ezekiel saw visions of heaven. Do I have to provide you with those scriptures as well or can you find them on your own?

You're sources are not apostles or prophets whom that gift was given to.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Your video sources are lawless because they aren't listening to the prohibition to utter so either they got it from satan or it wasn't from God because God gave the prohibition to not utter it.

 

[theword]

I do not endorse or follow the teachings of Copeland or Hagin. I merely stated both men had told their stories of having seen hell. Obviously something that disturbs you greatly, Chuck. One must wonder why. I have provided the video for the testimony of the great Christian, John Bunyan. You can hear him tell his testimony of his visions of hell and heaven. Surely you will not accuse John Bunyan, author of Pilgrim's Progress, of being a liar. Not without listening to his story first. I hope.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Mediator means:

2. a medium of communication, arbitrator
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Jesus is the medium of communication and John Bunyan is not God's prophet and anyone who stands in the place of Jesus or the Apostles communicating is on shaky ground.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Satan shows things too. Just because someone claims a vision, a dream, etc., doesn't mean it is from God because Satan is a source of revelation:

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The flesh of Jesus was NOT the mediator between man and God. The invisible "messiah" is where All God's creation exists and this is where us saints speak from. Jesus happened to be the first saint with this hidden knowledge of God and knew that his flesh was not important beyond this age.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Jesus and all us saints speak from the Heavenly Kingdom of God, also known as Christ. That's because we're the created Word of God used by God to speak His creation into existence.

John 1
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities – all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
19: For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,

"He" is the invisible Word of God that all us saints and prophets were created as. Everything else, including man, (male and female) was created within the invisible Word of God, or the Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Christ, Eternal Life, Light, Breath of Life, Book of Life, Tree of Life, Holy Spirit, Counselor, Zion, Jacob, etc.

 

[Chuckt]

How preposterous coming from a man who claims he believes the Apostle Paul was married! Without a single shred of evidence in scripture to back it up with! Nevertheless, I shall provide you scripture!

I think it is time for you to take a test. Have it back by Friday, Ok?

See how you are arriving at fulfilling II Timothy 2:15.

Answer each of the following in not less than 500 words and not more than 1000 words.

1. Why I believe in the divine inspiration of Scripture.
2. Why I believe in the deity of Jesus Christ.
3. Why I believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
4. Describe the Substitutionary Atonement of Jesus Christ.
5. Describe the Person and work of the Holy Spirit.
6. Eschatology: What I believe about the future (give special attention to the return of Jesus Christ).
7. What I believe about the nature and purpose of the church.

Write out three Old Testament prophecies which were fulfilled in the life and death of Jesus along with the corresponding New Testament verses that show the fulfillment.

Approximately how many authors wrote the Bible.
Approximately how many years did it take to write the Bible?
What is the meaning of the word Pentateuch?
What is commonly considered the oldest book in the Bible?

Name the books of the Old Testament which make up the following:

Books of the Law
Books of History
Poetical Books
Major Prophets
Minor Prophets

Name the books of the New Testament which make up the following:

The Gospels
The Historical Book
Pauline Epistles
General Epistles
The Book of Prophecy

In What languages was the Bible written?

Name two important manuscripts of the New Testament.

Give the date of the translation of the King James Version.

There are five women named in St. Matthew’s genealogy of Jesus; give their names.

Where were the disciples first called Christians?

Approximately how many years elapsed between the Old and New Testament?

What is the meaning of “I am the Alpha and the Omega?”

Sermons fall in several different categories. Name at least two of them. Describe them.

 

[theword]

How preposterous coming from a man who claims he believes the Apostle Paul was married! Without a single shred of evidence in scripture to back it up with! Nevertheless, I shall provide you scripture!

I think it is time for you to take a test. Have it back by Friday, Ok?

See how you are arriving at fulfilling II Timothy 2:15.

Answer each of the following in not less than 500 words and not more than 1000 words.

1. Why I believe in the divine inspiration of Scripture.
2. Why I believe in the deity of Jesus Christ.
3. Why I believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
4. Describe the Substitutionary Atonement of Jesus Christ.
5. Describe the Person and work of the Holy Spirit.
6. Eschatology: What I believe about the future (give special attention to the return of Jesus Christ).
7. What I believe about the nature and purpose of the church.

Write out three Old Testament prophecies which were fulfilled in the life and death of Jesus along with the corresponding New Testament verses that show the fulfillment.

Approximately how many authors wrote the Bible.
Approximately how many years did it take to write the Bible?
What is the meaning of the word Pentateuch?
What is commonly considered the oldest book in the Bible?

Name the books of the Old Testament which make up the following:

Books of the Law
Books of History
Poetical Books
Major Prophets
Minor Prophets

Name the books of the New Testament which make up the following:

The Gospels
The Historical Book
Pauline Epistles
General Epistles
The Book of Prophecy

In What languages was the Bible written?

Name two important manuscripts of the New Testament.

Give the date of the translation of the King James Version.

There are five women named in St. Matthew’s genealogy of Jesus; give their names.

Where were the disciples first called Christians?

Approximately how many years elapsed between the Old and New Testament?

What is the meaning of “I am the Alpha and the Omega?”

Sermons fall in several different categories. Name at least two of them. Describe them.

Your questions are for religious men who have no idea who God is.

Here's some questions from the spirit of God;

How is a man able to see things of this world?

How did God create His invisible Kingdom?

Why did God use religion and religious ideas to teach men how to build things?

What is the beast and why did God create it?

What is the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"?

What is the "tree of Life"?

What is a saint?

How does a saint know he's a saint?

How long does it take God to change the energy in the flesh to stop the Old Covenant "veil" that blocks a saint from His hidden knowledge?

Is the Word of God visible or invisible?

Is God using science to help His last saint understand His invisible Kingdom of Heaven?

Is an atomic element an illusion or something real?

What is the symbolic "Lake of Fire" from the writings in Revelation?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

How preposterous coming from a man who claims he believes the Apostle Paul was married! Without a single shred of evidence in scripture to back it up with! Nevertheless, I shall provide you scripture!

It is written:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up into the third heaven. Whether it was out of body or in body I do not know - but God knows.

- 2 Corinthians 12: 3

I believe Paul was speaking of his own experience but he didn't want others to know he had been taken in the spirit to heaven to see it as he was a very humble man. Isaiah saw visions of heaven. Ezekiel saw visions of heaven. Do I have to provide you with those scriptures as well or can you find them on your own?

You're sources are not apostles or prophets whom that gift was given to.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Your video sources are lawless because they aren't listening to the prohibition to utter so either they got it from satan or it wasn't from God because God gave the prohibition to not utter it.

Wrong again, Chuck. They were told to tell the world of these things - to warn people such as yourself that hell is real and that without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Why do you think God had Avila commissioned to write a book of what he had shown her and told her?

Why do you think John Bunyan wrote the book Visions of heaven and hell? He was commissioned to do it.

Why do you think that Mary K. Baxter wrote her book? She was ordered by Lord himself to write the book!

Why do you think Bill Weise quit his $500,000.00 dollar a year job to write a book and make a CD and do tours all over the country warning people about hell? Because the Lord commissioned him to do it!

Why do you think Isaiah recorded his visions of heaven and hell in the book of Isaiah? He was led of the Lord to do it!

Why do you think Ezekiel told of his visions of heaven in the book of Ezekiel? God commissioned him to do it.

Did either Prophet leave anything out? Were they told not to utter a word of it? No! You have not rightly divided the word and the reason you are incapable of rightly dividing it is because you have not the baptism of the Holy Spirit!

Isaiah did speak of what he saw and so did Ezekiel. Neither was told not to utter what they had seen. These men were not the only ones to have such visions. How did Job know of the bars of Sheol?

Job 17:16 Will it go down to the bars of Sheol? Shall we descend together into the dust?”

How did Samuel know of the goings on in hell? There are other scriptures that show evidence Samuel saw hell - he was a prophet! Would you like to try and disqualify him now so that you can claim you are still "right"?

1 Samuel 2:6 The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up.

Furthermore:
Why did Jesus select this story and do you realize it was not a parable but rather an event that took place in reality? Yes, it did. Know this, Chuck, knowledge puffeth up. God resists the proud but giveth grace unto the humble. You need to humble yourself. You do not know what you think you know and what you think you know you do not know at all.

Luke 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Another vision of hell: From Jesus himself. Will you now accuse Him to justify yourself?

To wrap this up, Chuck, examine this scripture and realize that without holiness no one will see the Lord.

It is written:

2 Thessalonians 1:5-9 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.


Break it down now... This is the evidence of the righteous judgment of God, "THAT YOU MAY BE CONSIDERED WORTHY OF THE KINGDOM - ( speaking to believers here, Chuck) for which you are also suffering ( many are the afflictions of the righteous ) - now skip forward to this verse...............When the Lord Jesus is revealed in heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those "WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD "AND" ON THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. <--( TWO GROUPS, CHUCK. THE UNSAVED AND THE SAVED WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS) - Now look at the very next verse: THEY WILL SUFFER THE PUNISHMENT OF ETERNAL DESTRUCTION, AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD AND FROM THE GLORY OF HIS MIGHT.

You need to stop perverting the scriptures of God and promoting a wide road false gospel, Chuck, and start obeying his Word or you are going to suffer the same exact judgment as the unbeliever. I'm not going to warn you again. This is it. Good bye. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I apologise to Kjw for not yet posting the scriptures on evidence of paradise and heaven being two different places / locations. I have to look them up and then organize it properly for you to see it presented properly. Our resident bible scholar has taken up all of my time tonight.

Tomorrow I will do it, God willing. Good night. - Jeri

 

[Chuckt]

How preposterous coming from a man who claims he believes the Apostle Paul was married! Without a single shred of evidence in scripture to back it up with! Nevertheless, I shall provide you scripture!

It is written:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up into the third heaven. Whether it was out of body or in body I do not know - but God knows.

- 2 Corinthians 12: 3

I believe Paul was speaking of his own experience but he didn't want others to know he had been taken in the spirit to heaven to see it as he was a very humble man. Isaiah saw visions of heaven. Ezekiel saw visions of heaven. Do I have to provide you with those scriptures as well or can you find them on your own?

You're sources are not apostles or prophets whom that gift was given to.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Your video sources are lawless because they aren't listening to the prohibition to utter so either they got it from satan or it wasn't from God because God gave the prohibition to not utter it.

Wrong again, Chuck. They were told to tell the world of these things - to warn people such as yourself that hell is real and that without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Why do you think God had Avila commissioned to write a book of what he had shown her and told her?

Why do you think John Bunyan wrote the book Visions of heaven and hell? He was commissioned to do it.

Why do you think that Mary K. Baxter wrote her book? She was ordered by Lord himself to write the book!

Jeri,

You're taking a text and turning it into a pretext. You are going over verses too fast without having comprehension and passing over verses without understanding some of the meaning in them.

Did God tell Mary K. Baxter or Avila to write a book? That is what you say. Maybe I'll ask God in Heaven and He will tell me something different. You glossed over the links I posted and didn't reply to them but the church sees problems with some of these teachers because they contradict the Bible. I follow the Bible and I read the Bible so I don't go astray with these counterfeits because I study the real thing. I don't follow Mary K. Baxter or Avila. I follow Christ.

The cults come into my church and they use language like "Glory to God. Glory to God. Glory to God" and my pastor says, "out".

They are parasites because they aren't endorsed by many churches and if the test for truth is saying a little truth here and there then all false teachers pass because if false teachers said everything false all of the time, most people would say, "that is ridiculous".

What you are doing is spending time with them instead of in the word or in a Church that would teach you discipline and it takes away from time you can spend with the Lord or doing something productive for the Lord. That is the error.

The Error of Ascetic Piety

Sociologist James Davison Hunter, in his recent book on evangelicalism, characterized historic evangelicalism as "world-denying." In order to draw more sharply the social borders that distinguish the orthodox from all others, evangelical believers tend to draft creeds of right belief and codes of right conduct that oblige them to abstain from certain foods (such as alcohol) and practices (such as dancing or extravagant dress) that mainstream believers consider spiritually harmless. Ascetic and austere expressions of one's devotion to Christ are thought by evangelicals to be useful in bearing witness to Christianity as an alternative to the values and convictions of the surrounding secular order. And to a certain extent this is a correct perception. Paul has already stressed in his opening thanksgiving prayer (1:3-12) that the gospel produces the fruit of transformed character, a changed people who know what is true and live according to it. Faith should expect moral results.

The problem Paul addresses in this passage, however, is the legalistic submission to such regulations, such that observing them can even replace a congregation's devotion to Christ. What results is often called "self-righteousness": one's devotion is measured by how drab and dreary one's Christianity is! The arrogant sloganeering that asserts that the simpler the lifestyle, the greater the holiness, does not wash with Paul. For him, the mark of true religion is not a rigorous compliance to rules of self-denial, but faith in Christ and a life in his Spirit (see Rom 14:13-18). What finally defines the borders of true Christianity is "being in Christ," where God's grace transforms a people into an alternative faith community. Any definition of Christianity that substitutes regulations of self-denial for self-transformation by the grace of God is spiritually impoverished and finally useless.

Colossians 2 Commentary - The Error of Ascetic Piety - BibleGateway.com

 

[theword]

I apologise to Kjw for not yet posting the scriptures on evidence of paradise and heaven being two different places / locations. I have to look them up and then organize it properly for you to see it presented properly. Our resident bible scholar has taken up all of my time tonight.

Tomorrow I will do it, God willing. Good night. - Jeri

The invisible world called Heaven is where we were created as spirits in the spirit of God, which is invisible wavelengths of energy that were spoken into existence by God's first creation called the Word, also known as His voice.

The visible world that we see is only illusions that come from processed wavelengths of energy through the brain ( processor ) of each of God's beings. This processed information ( energy ) gives us defined worlds to experience life in.

It's obvious that God hasn't taught you these things since you're only a sinner and not a true saint.

 

[Chuckt]

Wrong again, Chuck. They were told to tell the world of these things - to warn people such as yourself that hell is real and that without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely (freely. g1432 &#948;&#969;&#961;&#949;&#8049;&#957; d&#333;rean).

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely (freely. g1432 &#948;&#969;&#961;&#949;&#8049;&#957; d&#333;rean).

1) freely, undeservedly
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

God says you can come drink of the live undeservedly but because of pride, people say they deserve it which is caused by pride.
It is by pride that people contend and say they deserve it. Are you contending with God by believing in works instead of grace?

Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised [is] wisdom.

So what happens if we sin? If we confess it, is God faithful to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness? Circle the word "all" in the next verse. So if a person sins and asks forgiveness, are they holy? Does it mean they won't see the Lord? No.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[daws101]

With all the nonsense Christians think and speak how do you mofo's decide who is crazy?

Or does just any bullshit go? Is ANY hallucination too wack for you people to buy into?

A day does not go by that I don't thank my lucky stars that I don't think like you idiots.

Why are there any laws against fraud at all?

If such believers hadn't fucked up the lives of billions of people for thousands of years it would be kind of funny.

The people who claim to have such great faith as to believe that God diddled a virgin to father himself so he could be born without a human father to save mankind by being scorned ridiculed and crucified before he floated up into the sky find it too hard to believe that they might be wrong...

I believe it is you who has too hard a time believing it might be yourself that is wrong, Daws.

having trouble distinguishing posters?

 

[kjw47]

I apologise to Kjw for not yet posting the scriptures on evidence of paradise and heaven being two different places / locations. I have to look them up and then organize it properly for you to see it presented properly. Our resident bible scholar has taken up all of my time tonight.

Tomorrow I will do it, God willing. Good night. - Jeri

No need to apologize Jeremiah.
I already know--Earth will be turned into a Paradise after Gods kingdom takes control. And only 144,000 are bought from the earth by the blood of Jesus( rev 14:3)

 

[daws101]

I have no interest in writing for TBN. Let's get back to you, Daws. You say that you have gained this wisdom of life that conformists such as myself would never hope to gain, yet I have told you that King Solomon gained far more wealth, palaces, lands, gold and silver by his wisdom than any man who ever lived and this is verifiable, Daws. So tell me how your wisdom could possibly be greater than King Solomon's.

Take your time. I'll wait as I have to go answer a response I left off earlier. I'll look forward to your reply because according to your claims your wisdom would have to be greater than Solomon's. If that is true then I cannot fathom your not being able to provide a logical answer to my question. Thank you in advance for the explanation you'll provide us with. - Jeri

MY REPLY IS SIMPLE
1. KING SOLOMON was not the richest king ever
that honor goes to the first emperor of china...so again your response is based on a false premise..
2.I never claimed or inferred or hinted that MY wisdom was greater than king solomon's is reputed to be.you did... (there is no quantifiable evidence that his "wisdom was any greater than any other wisemen of that time ,again based on a false premise.)

as to this: " I gained a wisdom in life that conformists like yourselves could never hope to gain"- daws
it's self explanatory ....
if IT NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED TO YOU THEN YOU LACK THE WISDOM TO UNDERSTAND IT.

Excuse me but you are wrong. King Solomon was richer than the first emperor of China. Had you read the scriptures and studied the history of Solomon you would know that, Daws.

Furthermore, Daws, you said that you gained a wisdom in life that "Conformists" meaning one conformed to Christ as this is about my Christianity you were referring to - is a wisdom I could never hope to gain which therein implies your wisdom gained without God ( as you are a self professed atheist ) is greater than wisdom that comes from those who believe in God and are conformists to God and His ways.

I told you that King Solomon openly writes in 1 Kings 3: 8 that he asked for wisdom from God and received it. You claim your wisdom without God - as an atheist - is greater. Therein you are implying your wisdom is greater than that of Solomon's.
PROVE IT. - Jeri

arguing from a false premise An argument from false premises is a line of reasoning which can lead to wrong results.[1] A false premise is an untrue proposition that forms the basis of a logical syllogism. Since the premise (proposition, or assumption) is not correct, the conclusion drawn may be in error. However, the logical validity of an argument is a function of its internal consistency, not the truth value of its premises.
For example, consider this syllogism, which involves an obvious false premise:
If the streets are wet, it has rained recently. (premise)
The streets are wet. (premise)
Therefore it has rained recently. (conclusion)
This argument is logically valid, but quite demonstrably unsound, because its first premise is false – one could hose down the streets, a street cleaner could have passed, or the local river could have flooded, etc. A simple logical analysis will not reveal the error in this argument, since that analysis must accept the truth of the argument's premises. For this reason, an argument based on false premises can be much more difficult to refute, or even discuss, than one featuring a normal logical error, as the truth of its premises must be established to the satisfaction of all parties.
Another feature of an argument based on false premises that can bedevil critics, is that its conclusion can in fact be true. Consider the above example again. It may well be that it has recently rained, and that the streets are wet. This of course does nothing to prove the first premise, but can make its claims more difficult to refute. This underlies the basic epistemological problem of establishing causal relationships. The adage warns, "Correlated does not necessarily mean causally related".
A false premise can also be a premise that is poorly, or incompletely, defined so as to make the conclusion questionable. The following joke from Plato and a Platypus Walk Into a Bar illustrates the point:
"An old cowboy goes into a bar and orders a drink. As he sits there sipping his whiskey, a young lady sits down next to him. ... She says, 'I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women. ...' A little while later, a couple sits down next to the old cowboy and asks him, 'Are you a real cowboy?' He replies, 'I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian'." [2]
The mistake the cowboy makes is that he assumes that the definition of a lesbian is somebody who spends the "whole day thinking about women." The reason the joke works is because in a certain way that definition could apply to lesbians, but it fails to address the point that a lesbian is a homosexual female. The cowboy is neither homosexual nor female; therefore, he is not a lesbian.imple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_false_premises


it is said that king Solomon owned half of the world...a false statement as he had no idea that earth is as large as it is and filled with other cultures...

King Solomon

In the Bible,(1) King Solomon is said to have:

Inherited a vast empire conquered by his father David that extended from the Nile in Egypt to the Euphrates River in Mesopotamia (1 Kings 4:21; Gen. 15:18; Deut. 1:7,11:24; Joshua 1:4; 2 Sam. 8:3; 1 Chron. 18:3).
Accumulated great wealth and wisdom (1 Kings 10:23).
Administered his kingdom through a system of 12 districts (1 Kings 4:7).
Possessed a large harem, which included "the daughter of Pharaoh" (1 Kings 3:1; 1 Kings 11:1,3; 1 Kings 9:16).
Honored other gods in his old age (1 Kings 11:1-2,4-5).
Devoted his reign to great building projects (1 Kings 9:15,17-19), including:


the Temple (1 Kings 6).
the Royal Palace (1 Kings 7:2-12).
the walls of Jerusalem,
the Millo (an earthen fill made to enlarge Jerusalem) (1 Kings 11:27)
the royal cities of Megiddo, Hazor, and Gezer
the store cities, the cities for his horsemen and the cities for his chariots throughout his empire.
To be consistent with the pattern of other great Bronze and Iron Age cultures in the ancient Near East (Egyptian, Babylonian, Assyrian, and Hittite), it would be expected that numerous documents, art, and inscriptions on buildings or public monuments would have been left by such a great king or by his descendants later in honor of him.(2) Yet no article of any kind bearing his name has ever been found.(3)

The cities of Hazor, Megiddo and Gezer have now been extensively excavated. A stratum containing large palaces, temples and strong fortifications was found in each of these cities. The name of Solomon was not found, but the cartouche of the 18th Dynasty Pharaoh Amenhotep III instead.(4) In Jerusalem, it has not been possible to excavate the temple mount, however, extensive excavations in the city, including the areas adjacent to the temple mount have not revealed the existence of a Solomaic palace complex.(5) Moreover, excavation of the Millo has revealed (due to pottery found in the Millo) that its original construction was also contemporary with the Egyptian 18th Dynasty of Amenhotep III.(6)

Amenhotep III, known in ancient times as the "King of Kings" and "Ruler of Ruler's,"(7) was a Pharaoh of Egypt's glorious 18th Dynasty. He, like Solomon, inherited a vast empire whose influence extended quite literally from the Nile to the Euphrates.(8) In contrast to the empire of Solomon, the empire of Amenhotep is indisputable.(9) The buildings, monuments, documents, art, and numerous other vestiges of his reign are ubiquitous and unparalleled (with the possible exception being those left by the 19th Dynasty Pharaoh, Ramses II).

The entire reign of Amenhotep III was devoted to monumental construction throughout Egypt, Canaan, and Syria.(10) In addition to the ancient world's most glorious temple at Luxor,(11) he built many other temples of similar design throughout Egypt and in the rest of his empire,(12) including the Canaanite garrison cities of Hazor, Megiddo, Gezer,(13) Lachish and Beth-shean.(14)

According to Egyptian records, Amenhotep's father Thutmose IV and grandfather Amenhotep II deported over 80,000 Canaanites. The Canaanite inhabitants of Gezer were specifically included in this deportation.(15) It was during Amenhotep III's reign that Gezer and other major Palestine cities were refortified as royal Egyptian garrisons, and endowed with fine temples and palaces.

The Bible states that in Solomon's day, the Pharaoh of Egypt captured the Canaanite city of Gezer and presented it to his daughter as a dowry upon her marriage to Solomon (1 Kings 9:16-17).(16)

It was customary and obligatory for Amenhotep III to marry "the daughter of Pharaoh" in order to secure the throne.(17) This is precisely what was done when he was married to Sitamun, the daughter of his father, Pharaoh Thutmose IV.

The network of Egyptian 18th Dynasty garrison cities also included Jerusalem. If construction by Amenhotep III at Gezer, Hazor, Megiddo and other garrison cities is any indication, then a magnificent temple undoubtedly was also built by Amenhotep on Jerusalem's venerated Temple Mount.(18) The structure adjacent to Jerusalem's Temple Mount, known traditionally as "Solomon's stables," is consistent with the architecture of Amenhotep's garrison cities.(19) Archaeology has also confirmed that chariots were kept in these cities during his reign in groups of between thirty to one hundred and fifty each.(20)

The ancient mining operations at Timna in the Negev desert, known as "Solomon's mines," "are earlier than Solomon by some three hundred years [in the conventional chronology],"(21) dating once again to the time of Amenhotep III. Copper from Timna, gold from the Sudan,(22) other precious metals, jewels and high quality stone were used in great abundance in Amenhotep's temples, just as they were in Solomon's.(23) A stela from Amenhotep's mortuary temple boasts that the temple was "embellished with gold throughout, its floor shining with silver ... with royal statues of granite, of quartzite and precious stones."(24) The list of materials used in another temple built by Amenhotep is also "staggering: 3.25 tons of electrum [an alloy of silver and gold], 2.5 tons of gold, 944 tons of copper..."(25)

The Biblical Solomon's greatest satisfaction is said to have been the challenge of completing grand projects (Ecclesiastes 2:4-11). The same was said of Amenhotep III. A royal Egyptian text of the period reads, "Lo, His Majesty's heart was satisfied with making very great monuments, the like of which had never come into being since the primeval age of the Two Lands."(26) Only an enormously wealthy king of a long established empire could have built so splendidly and in so many widely distributed locations in the ancient world. Amenhotep III was arguably the ancient world's wealthiest king. The completion of such magnificent projects required management of a considerable and constant source of labor and revenue extending over a period of many decades.

The administration and taxation system of Amenhotep with its 12 districts(27) is identical to that of Solomon as described in the Bible (1 Kings 4:2-7,27; 5:13; 9:23). Amenhotep also dedicated himself to rediscovering the wisdom, mysteries and traditions of earlier Egyptian Dynasties.(28) A strong relationship has been established between the "Proverbs of Solomon" in the Bible and the "Maxims of Amenhotep III" found in Egypt.(29)

In addition to the projects already mentioned, Amenhotep also built a completely new palace complex in Thebes. The new royal residence included all of the elements contained in the palace complex of Solomon which are described in the Bible (1 Kings 7:2-12),(30) namely:

a house made almost entirely out of cedars of Lebanon (built for Amenhotep's Jubilee festival);(31)
a colonnade (hall of columns) fronted by a portico (porch) and surrounded by a column-lined courtyard;(32)
a throne room built with many wooden columns and whose floor was a painted lake scene (identical to the one crossed in wonder by the Queen of Sheba when she approached the throne of Solomon, as described in the Koran);(33)
a separate palace built for Sitamun, "the daughter of Pharaoh;"(34)
a royal palace (consisting of his own residence, the residence of his Great Wife, Tiye, and a residence for the royal harem).(35)
Amenhotep, like Solomon, was relentless in his pursuit of women for his harem, especially beautiful foreign women of both royal and common backgrounds alike.(36) Amenhotep's harem included two princesses from Babylon,(37) two princesses from Syria, two princesses from Mitanni, and like Solomon's harem, it included a princess from each of the seven nations listed in 1 Kings 11:1.(38) As the mightiest king of the Middle East, Amenhotep did not send any of his own daughters to other kings in exchange, nor did any other Pharaoh of this dynasty (or likely any other throughout Egypt's history).(39) He specifically denied a request by the king of Babylon for an Egyptian wife.(40) Importantly, the Bible emphasizes Solomon's Egyptian bride, but does not mention that Solomon had any Hebrew wives.(41) Rehoboam, who is said to have succeeded Solomon, was the son of an Ammonite princess.(42)

The court of Amenhotep III was an extremely liberal one, and reflected every possible excess of an affluent and secure kingdom.(43) Eroticism in art and court life reached its height during the reign of Amenhotep.(44) The famous "nude dancing girls" mural dates to Amenhotep's reign.(45) As with Solomon, Amenhotep denied himself nothing "his eyes desired" and "refused his heart no pleasure" (Ecclesiastes 2:10). However, the last years of Amenhotep's thirty-eight year reign were not pleasant ones. The long years of indulgence had taken their toll and he had many ailments. As a compassionate gesture, his Mitanni brother-in-law(46) sent him an idol of the goddess Ishtar (i.e., Asherah)(1 Kings 11:5).

The "inescapable conclusion"(47) is that the story of Solomon was patterned specifically after the life of Amenhotep III. The name Solomon itself, which literally means "peace" or "safety" points to Amenhotep III whose long and pervasive reign in the 14th Century B.C. did not include any major military campaigns, but was characterized by unprecedented stability throughout the Near East.(48) After the Egyptian 18th Dynasty, the region between the two great rivers was not controlled by a single power again until the Assyrian empire of Ashurbanipal (the grandson of Sennacherib) who invaded Egypt and pillaged Thebes in the 7th Century B.C.,(49) and the 6th Century B.C. empire of Cyrus, who also conquered Egypt and made it a Persian province.(50) There is no evidence of any empire at any time controlling this region whose capital was Jerusalem.(51)

Solomon is said to have had "a thousand and four hundred" chariots (1 Kings 1:26). This represents a prodigious army by ancient standards, and one which could only have been amassed over a long period of time by an established civilization.(52) Yet we are told that only five years after the great King Solomon's death, the Egyptian Pharaoh Shishak and his allies invaded Judah and captured its fortified cities with little or no military resistance (2 Chron. 12). The Bible adds that Jerusalem itself was spared only after delivering up the entirety of King Solomon's accumulated wealth to Shishak.

The rapidness with which Solomon's empire was established, as described by the Bible, and the ease with which it shortly thereafter submitted to a foreign power is also not consistent with the pattern set by other great ancient civilizations.
King Solomon - The Gospel According to Egypt