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Deism was the prevailing philosophy of our founding fathers. It is well documented. Deism is a belief in God based on reason and nature.
Jefferson, Franklin, and the men who framed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were anticlerical Deists.... They created America as an experiment in democracy, freedom and humanism.
They called themselves Christians. No one else, except God, has any right to question their claims about their beliefs. Are you now claiming to speak for Him? If so, I will lump you in with Neubarth and scoff at everything you say.
Shocking tho it may seem to you....but Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLIDAY...bodecea said:Shocking tho it may seem to you....not everyone celebrates Christian Christmas in December...there are other holidays too. So, explain to us how being more inclusive of ALL celebrating in December is such a horrible thing to Christians? Or is this just MORE evidence that if you guys had political control of our government, the rest of us would be up shit creek without a paddle?
Federal holidays in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Deism was the prevailing philosophy of our founding fathers. It is well documented. Deism is a belief in God based on reason and nature.
Jefferson, Franklin, and the men who framed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were anticlerical Deists.... They created America as an experiment in democracy, freedom and humanism.
They called themselves Christians. No one else, except God, has any right to question their claims about their beliefs. Are you now claiming to speak for Him? If so, I will lump you in with Neubarth and scoff at everything you say.
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, James Madision were deists.
Washington is quoted in the Treaty of Tripoli as claiming American is NOT a Christian nation.
Scroll back. I've provided plenty of evidence.
Christian nationalists believe in a revisionist history, which holds that the founders were devout Christians who never intended to create a secular republic; separation of church and state, according to this history, is a fraud perpetrated by God-hating subversives. One of the foremost Christian revisionist historians is David Barton, who , in addition to running an organization called Wallbuilders that disseminates Christian nationalist books, tracts and videos, is also the vice-chairman of the Texas Republican Party. The goal of Christian nationalist politics is the restoration of the imagined Christian nation. As George Grant, former executive director of D. James Kennedy's influential Coral Ridge Ministries, wrote in his book "The Changing of the Guard:"
"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish."
In the Christian nationalist vision of America, non-believers would be free to worship as they choose, as long as they know their place. When Venkatachalapathi Samuldrala became the first Hindu priest to offer an invocation before Congress, the Family Research Council issued a furious statement that reveals much about the America they'd like to create:
"While it is true that the United States of America was founded on the sacred principle of religious freedom for all, that liberty was never intended to exalt other religions to the level that Christianity holds in our country's heritage...Our founders expected that Christianity -- and no other religion -- would receive support from the government as long as that support did not violate peoples' consciences and their right to worship. They would have found utterly incredible the idea that all religions, including paganism, be treated with equal deference."
Talk To Action | What is Christian nationalism?
BTW...not everyone gets Christmas off...and Christmas comes from two words...Christ and Mass.....do you go to Mass to celebrate the day?Christmas controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
But that's not a ban. Surely you're not suggesting it should be mandatory to use the term Christmas. If people prefer "holidays" for whatever reason, why is that a problem? Does it offend you?
Yes it offends me....once again....Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLDIDAY...is that a problem for YOU?
The "Christian victim mentality" is a direct product of the anti-Christian agenda growing within our country
Name me one law that is designed to punish Christians?
....led by the communist et al statist lefties....banning stupid things like saying Merry Christmas
Show me where saying Merry Christmas is banned by law.
When it comes to the Christian faith, the spokesmen, policy-makers, and attorneys for the ACLU have made their position painfully clear: they're against it. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Although they have fought for the free speech and expression "rights" of pornographers, witches, abortionists, homosexuals, convicted criminals, child molesters, occultists, Communists, lesbians, Nazis, illegal aliens, AIDS patients, and Satanists, they have resolutely attempted to deny those same privileges to Christians. As a result, according to Richard and Susan Vigilante, they have effectively reduced "the place of religion in American life" and have restricted religious speech "in a way they would never allow other forms of speech to be restricted." [1]
Their discriminatory intolerance is a matter of record. [2] Recently, they have sought to:
As Patrick Buchanan has all too obviously pointed out, "That is not a record of tolerance." [3]
- Halt the singing of Christmas carols like "Silent Night" and "Away in a Manger" in public facilities;
- Deny the tax-exempt status of all churches--yet maintaining it for themselves as well as for various occult groups;
- Disallow prayer--not just in the public school classrooms, but in locker rooms, sports arenas, graduation exercises, and legislative assemblies;
- Terminate all military and prison chaplains;
- Deny Christian school children access to publicly funded services;
- Eliminate nativity scenes, crosses, and other Christian symbols from public property;
- Repeal all blue law statutes;
- Prohibit voluntary Bible reading in public schools--even during free time or after classes;
- Remove the words In God We Trust from our coins;
- Deny accreditation to science departments at Bible-believing Christian Universities;
- Prevent the posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms;
- Terminate all voucher programs and tuition tax credits;
- Prohibit census questions about religious affiliation;
- Purge the words under God from the Pledge of Allegiance.
Trial and Error: The ACLU and Religious Expression
Christian nationalists believe in a revisionist history, which holds that the founders were devout Christians who never intended to create a secular republic; separation of church and state, according to this history, is a fraud perpetrated by God-hating subversives. One of the foremost Christian revisionist historians is David Barton, who , in addition to running an organization called Wallbuilders that disseminates Christian nationalist books, tracts and videos, is also the vice-chairman of the Texas Republican Party. The goal of Christian nationalist politics is the restoration of the imagined Christian nation. As George Grant, former executive director of D. James Kennedy's influential Coral Ridge Ministries, wrote in his book "The Changing of the Guard:"
"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish."
In the Christian nationalist vision of America, non-believers would be free to worship as they choose, as long as they know their place. When Venkatachalapathi Samuldrala became the first Hindu priest to offer an invocation before Congress, the Family Research Council issued a furious statement that reveals much about the America they'd like to create:
"While it is true that the United States of America was founded on the sacred principle of religious freedom for all, that liberty was never intended to exalt other religions to the level that Christianity holds in our country's heritage...Our founders expected that Christianity -- and no other religion -- would receive support from the government as long as that support did not violate peoples' consciences and their right to worship. They would have found utterly incredible the idea that all religions, including paganism, be treated with equal deference."
Talk To Action | What is Christian nationalism?
Counter their lies with truth, not lies.
Trust me on this, if you ever want to tangle a fundamentalist Christian in a knot, show him that the person he is holding up as an example did not believe the exact same thing he did. If you go around claiming that they were not Christian, all they have to do is look at the words they wrote and see that you have no idea what you are talking about. Most of them openly claimed to be Christian. Your ignorant claims only supports their position, because they can dismiss you as person with an anti-Christian agenda who resorts to lies.
Guess what, they are right, even if you don't think they are.
Deism was the prevailing philosophy of our founding fathers. It is well documented. Deism is a belief in God based on reason and nature.
Jefferson, Franklin, and the men who framed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were anticlerical Deists.... They created America as an experiment in democracy, freedom and humanism.
It is well documented that they looked to the bible as the blueprint for freedom.
Really, what part of the Bible shows freedom...the kind of freedom incorporated in our Constitution?
Please point out the chapters, verses, or books. TIA
Deism is not Judeo-Christianity. We are NOT a Christian nation. If we were we would be a theocracy.
Most of the people you call Deists called themselves Christian. Are you another of those idiots that think only their definition of Christian is appropriate?
Which Founding Fathers are you refererencing? The intent of the Consitution was to leave God out. Only one reference to not making religion a requirement for public office.
Deism is not Judeo-Christianity. We are NOT a Christian nation. If we were we would be a theocracy.
Most of the people you call Deists called themselves Christian. Are you another of those idiots that think only their definition of Christian is appropriate?
Are you one of the people that think Christianity is in the Constitution?
Most of the people you call Deists called themselves Christian. Are you another of those idiots that think only their definition of Christian is appropriate?
Are you one of the people that think Christianity is in the Constitution?
Show me anywhere I have said that and you might have a point, otherwise you are just treating me the same way you claim not to want to be treated. It is sad to see how often people do exactly what they condemn when given the chance.
Christmas controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
But that's not a ban. Surely you're not suggesting it should be mandatory to use the term Christmas. If people prefer "holidays" for whatever reason, why is that a problem? Does it offend you?
Yes it offends me....once again....Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLDIDAY...is that a problem for YOU?
Deism was the prevailing philosophy of our founding fathers. It is well documented. Deism is a belief in God based on reason and nature.
Jefferson, Franklin, and the men who framed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were anticlerical Deists.... They created America as an experiment in democracy, freedom and humanism.
They called themselves Christians. No one else, except God, has any right to question their claims about their beliefs. Are you now claiming to speak for Him? If so, I will lump you in with Neubarth and scoff at everything you say.
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, James Madision were deists.
Washington is quoted in the Treaty of Tripoli as claiming American is NOT a Christian nation.
Scroll back. I've provided plenty of evidence.
I linked the Treaty of Tripoli which clearly states that American is NOT a Christian nation. It is one of the first international claims by the newly formed US government.
If you think that's ignorant I'm sorry. I haven't lied about this document.
As to the Founding Fathers:
Much of the myth of Washington's alleged Christianity came from Mason Weems influential book, "Life of Washington." The story of the cherry tree comes from this book and it has no historical basis. Weems, a Christian minister portrayed Washington as a devout Christian, yet Washington's own diaries show that he rarely attended Church.
Washington revealed almost nothing to indicate his spiritual frame of mind, hardly a mark of a devout Christian. In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears. He rarely spoke about his religion, but his Freemasonry experience points to a belief in deism. Washington's initiation occurred at the Fredericksburg Lodge on 4 November 1752, later becoming a Master mason in 1799, and remained a freemason until he died.
To the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789, Washington said that every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."
After Washington's death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington's religion replied, "Sir, Washington was a Deist."
Little-Known U.S. Document Proclaims America's Government is Secular - The Early America Review, Summer 1997
They called themselves Christians. No one else, except God, has any right to question their claims about their beliefs. Are you now claiming to speak for Him? If so, I will lump you in with Neubarth and scoff at everything you say.
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, James Madision were deists.
Washington is quoted in the Treaty of Tripoli as claiming American is NOT a Christian nation.
Scroll back. I've provided plenty of evidence.
Your evidence does not matter. All of those men considered themselves to be Christians, and their's are the only opinions that matter on that subject, unless you are claiming to speak for God. Psot all the links that you want on other people's opinions, they cannot refute those men's own words on the subject of their beliefs. They did not believe in the Christianity that is orthodox today, but they were Christians by their own words.
You are engaging in the exact same thing that Dominionists do, you are attempting to rewirte history to support your own agenda. If you want to prove them wrong you can not do so by engaging in deception yourself.
You need to make a choice, are you going to stick to the truth and use it, or are you going to stick to lies and be made a fool of by everyone?
Fact: Almost all of the founding fathers considered themselves to be Christian.
Fact: They worked very hard to make sure that the United States would not be a Christian nation because they knew what would happen if it ever became one.
The United States is not a Christian nation, but it was founded by Christian men. Stick to the truth and you will be respected, even by those who disagree with you. Spout lies and you will be ignored, even by those who agree with you.
WADR, are you expecting someone to argue this point?
Has someone said that we were?
Our founders had such a jaded view of Christianity, after being subjects of the Church of England, there is no reason why they would model this country after that standard.
Are you one of the people that think Christianity is in the Constitution?
Show me anywhere I have said that and you might have a point, otherwise you are just treating me the same way you claim not to want to be treated. It is sad to see how often people do exactly what they condemn when given the chance.
I asked a question You answered. End of story.
Benjamin Franklin was a Deist:
Although Franklin received religious training, his nature forced him to rebel against the irrational tenets of his parents Christianity. His Autobiography revels his skepticism, "My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.
". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a through Deist."
In an essay on "Toleration," Franklin wrote:
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here [England] and in New England."
Little-Known U.S. Document Proclaims America's Government is Secular - The Early America Review, Summer 1997
But that's not a ban. Surely you're not suggesting it should be mandatory to use the term Christmas. If people prefer "holidays" for whatever reason, why is that a problem? Does it offend you?
Yes it offends me....once again....Christmas is a NATIONAL HOLDIDAY...is that a problem for YOU?
seems to me you FIRST stated that "THEY (evil liberals) are trying to BAN the words MERRY CHRISTMAS"
in fact
I KNOW you said it.
after which a number of us pointed out that YOU had it ASSBACKWARDS
that it was deranged lunatics like you who got OFFENDED any time someone did NOT say MERRY CHRISTMAS but, instead, said HAPPY HOLIDAYS
after which YOU (lied....you cons....you LIE....) called me a few names
questioned my sanity
and said that NOBODY (except a few FRINGE groups....like FOX news and the 20 million member christian coalition) were trying to BAN all words other than "merry xmas"
and now...
you rip off your whiskers andcreveal the evil underneath!
you ADMIT that you are one of thosecfringe lunatics who gets REALLY FKN ANGRY any time a sane and rational person says "happy holidays" instead of "merry xmas I hate liberals"
christmas is, indeed, a national HOLIDAY
which is why those of us who do not celebrate the birth of a liberal middle eastern trouble maker say "happy HOLIDAYS"
I don't believe in god
I am an atheist
I DO believe in holidays
so
happy fkn holidays to you my deranged enemy
