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Look, Sky, I can't make you believe something you refuse to believe. I did prove it. You won't accept it, and you haven't even referenced it. I've asked you repeatedly how you manage to ignore the founders' own words about what they were building the country on, and you haven't answered. Because that's what you've done. Ignore. The founders (the FOUNDERS. They FOUNDED the country). said a free country could not take place without the guidance of God. They say in the Declaration of Independence, where they give their REASONS for breaking from England, that GOD gives men rights, and they are going to build a new country to see to it that those rights are provided to men. They discussed it among themselves, and with their families, with the churches of the day. Those documents remain, and provide the proof that they were intent on building a country on Christian values.
And you ignore it and continue to parrot that the founding fathers weren't Christian and our country wasn't founded on Christian principles.
I can't do much with that. Nobody can. It's willfull ignorance, and you seem to be proud of it.
Except we weren't arguing whether or not the constitution was a secular document.
The argument was whether or not our country was built upon Christian values, and whether it remains Christian.
It was, and it does.
Except we weren't arguing whether or not the constitution was a secular document.
The argument was whether or not our country was built upon Christian values, and whether it remains Christian.
It was, and it does.
No, your story has changed. It was our nation was founded on Christian principles.
And it wasn't and you know it so now your thesis is "built".
Big difference.
But they both are wrong. This nation was built by HARD WORK, freedom and free thought.
Not religion.
Allie, let me appeal to your reason and common sense:
1. No where in the Constitution does it appeal to God, Jesus, Christianity or ANY supreme being. Why is that?
2. The US Constitution clearly states in the preamble "We the people". The omission of God did not come out of them forgetting to include God. That was out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intention to keep government SEPERATE from religion.
3. You keep posting about the Declaration of Independence. It clearly states that "all men are created equal" and "to secure those rights, governments are instituted amongst MEN" The Declaration of Independence SAYS NOTHING about our rights or any rights secured by Christianity. The Declaration of Independence makes no mention of a personal God of Christianity. Jefferson describes it as "the laws of nature and of Nature's God". Allie, that is clearly deist speak of the day. Everyone knows that.
4. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly states by many of the Founders that we are not a nation founded on Christianity. John Adams signed it in 1790 and you claim we were founded when he stated we were not. Respectfully Allie, I believe John Adams and not you.
If you better understood the concept of seperation of church and state you would see that this PROTECTS your, and all, religion. The free expression of those that are religous and those that are not is allowed by a secular government. A religous government never tolerates that.
In today's America, religion flourishes. We have more churches than fast food restaurants.
No one that I know that is an atheist or non believer wants to ban or eliminate religion from society. That is a myth. Keeping church and state allows any religion or atheist, no matter how ridiculous their beliefs, to practice their beliefs freely WITHOUT government intervention.
Allie, let me appeal to your reason and common sense:
1. No where in the Constitution does it appeal to God, Jesus, Christianity or ANY supreme being. Why is that?
2. The US Constitution clearly states in the preamble "We the people". The omission of God did not come out of them forgetting to include God. That was out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intention to keep government SEPERATE from religion.
3. You keep posting about the Declaration of Independence. It clearly states that "all men are created equal" and "to secure those rights, governments are instituted amongst MEN" The Declaration of Independence SAYS NOTHING about our rights or any rights secured by Christianity. The Declaration of Independence makes no mention of a personal God of Christianity. Jefferson describes it as "the laws of nature and of Nature's God". Allie, that is clearly deist speak of the day. Everyone knows that.
4. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly states by many of the Founders that we are not a nation founded on Christianity. John Adams signed it in 1790 and you claim we were founded when he stated we were not. Respectfully Allie, I believe John Adams and not you.
If you better understood the concept of seperation of church and state you would see that this PROTECTS your, and all, religion. The free expression of those that are religous and those that are not is allowed by a secular government. A religous government never tolerates that.
In today's America, religion flourishes. We have more churches than fast food restaurants.
No one that I know that is an atheist or non believer wants to ban or eliminate religion from society. That is a myth. Keeping church and state allows any religion or atheist, no matter how ridiculous their beliefs, to practice their beliefs freely WITHOUT government intervention.
Allie, let me appeal to your reason and common sense:
1. No where in the Constitution does it appeal to God, Jesus, Christianity or ANY supreme being. Why is that?
2. The US Constitution clearly states in the preamble "We the people". The omission of God did not come out of them forgetting to include God. That was out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intention to keep government SEPERATE from religion.
3. You keep posting about the Declaration of Independence. It clearly states that "all men are created equal" and "to secure those rights, governments are instituted amongst MEN" The Declaration of Independence SAYS NOTHING about our rights or any rights secured by Christianity. The Declaration of Independence makes no mention of a personal God of Christianity. Jefferson describes it as "the laws of nature and of Nature's God". Allie, that is clearly deist speak of the day. Everyone knows that.
4. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly states by many of the Founders that we are not a nation founded on Christianity. John Adams signed it in 1790 and you claim we were founded when he stated we were not. Respectfully Allie, I believe John Adams and not you.
If you better understood the concept of seperation of church and state you would see that this PROTECTS your, and all, religion. The free expression of those that are religous and those that are not is allowed by a secular government. A religous government never tolerates that.
In today's America, religion flourishes. We have more churches than fast food restaurants.
No one that I know that is an atheist or non believer wants to ban or eliminate religion from society. That is a myth. Keeping church and state allows any religion or atheist, no matter how ridiculous their beliefs, to practice their beliefs freely WITHOUT government intervention.
Separation of church and state does protect religion. I'm the one who continually carps on that here, stating that said separation exists to protect religion. Hence it is a disservice to freedom of religion and liberty to insist that separation of church and state means we are PREVENTED from incorporating our religion into all aspects of our lives if we so desire.
That is NOT to say we should legislate religion, I have never said that and never will. But the idea that we can't refer to our religion in any meaningful manner outside of our homes and church goes diametrically against everything our founders meant to protect.
The founding fathers SAID they were basing the concept of a free country upon the concept of a heavenly father who provides us with human rights which no man has the right to remove from us.
That means we're based on Christian principles.
I'm not saying we should be a theocracy. I'm not saying we should or ever have legislated religion, of course we haven't. But the concepts of a free republic as our founders saw it is based on Christian tenets. According to them. And confirmed in the declaration.
And deists of the 18th century were still Christians, btw.
That has nothing to do with the founding of this country.
This country was founded on Christian principles, first and foremost, that all men are created equal and certain rights come from God.
You can say it all you like, and I'm sure it makes you feel better, but there is no proof that the US was founded on Christian principles. The evidence is not in the legal documents in which we found our government.
Sky, I suggest you go do some serious reading then, because if you had read letters and other associated documents written by the founders themselves while the country was being established, you would see how very wrong you are. It's a shame that our history is not being taught but is being covered up and buried to the point that you feel you can make this statement and feel that you are right.
[
The whole idea of being free to worship as one pleases is a CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE.
But continue to make an idiot of yourself, by all means.
Except we weren't arguing whether or not the constitution was a secular document.
The argument was whether or not our country was built upon Christian values, and whether it remains Christian.
It was, and it does.
-so long as they were neoxitans, too51. A Letter Concerning Toleration, John Locke (1689) Classic statement of the case for toleration of those holding different views.
52. Second Treatise on Government, John Locke (1690) Principal proponent of the social contract theory which forms the basis for modern constitutional republican government.
