The vaccine.

[meaner gene]

I think the fact that Johnson & Johnson pulled the vaccine is all the proof any normal thinking person needs.

That's backwards logic. That a company that pulls a product out of caution, proves the product is defective. Where a company that continues to distribute, proves it's safe.

 

[StevenC]

So it is claimed. We will never know though.

Maybe you wont. Every other educated, rational person knows for a fact that more people would have gotten ill or died, without the safety measures.

That is a supposition not fact, sorry.

A true supposition. Go ahead, try to make an argument against it. We could all use a good laugh.

We talking normal safety measures? Common sense like coving your mouth, washing your hands and not going out if sick?
Or are you talking draconian measures like quarantining health people and shutting down businesses?

 

[Concerned American]

I think the vaccine doesn't actually do shit. It is a placebo. Why else do we still have to wear masks?

because we aren't up to 70-85% fully vaccinated people.

you have heard of herd immunity.... haven't you?

So the vaccine is unnecessary unless you are high risk right? After all herd immunity happens naturally. The lockdowns actually made things worse by not allowing herd immunity to happen faster. We should've just protected those at high risk and let the rest go on with things a normal.

for natural herd immunity to be realized...

The Cost of Herd Immunity in the U.S.
— Likely involves more than a million deaths; "That cannot be our price"

by Kristina Fiore, Director of Enterprise & Investigative Reporting, MedPage Today September 1, 2020

The Cost of Herd Immunity in the U.S.

Likely involves Is all I need to see. Seems this was just a guess on her part. By the way, how many are dead already with all the lockdowns we have had?

'likely' because they are using educated guesses based on data they have + variable. that's called 'science'.


et's look at the numbers:

For herd immunity to take hold, you would need a minimum of 60% of the entire population to be infected. Antibody studies tell us that some small pockets of New York City and Mumbai, India, may have reached 50% infection rates, but cities with major outbreaks have had overall infection rates of less than 25%. Based on CDC testing nationally, we estimate 10% of the U.S. population has experienced COVID-19 coronavirus infection. Given the overall number of confirmed deaths, we can estimate that approximately 0.6% of people with COVID-19 will perish as a result. As of this writing, over 220,000 Americans have already died from COVID-19. So, what would happen if 60% of the population were infected rather than 10%? Here are our estimates for what a "herd immunity" experience in the U.S. would look like:

• 197 million cases
• 6 million people hospitalized
• 2 million deaths

This is not a solution. The loss of life would be many times more devastating than what we see now. The economic impact would be ruinous for our state and country. If you see statements that claim otherwise, keep in mind there has not been a single scientifically verified study anywhere in the world that shows unchecked herd immunity as a solution.

The scientific truth about herd immunity

2 million out of how many billion? Sorry this just doesn't justify destroying economies and robbing people of their freedom.

2 million HERE. america doesn't have a billion people... can't you read?

& you aren't free to make me sick.

Why not--you've been making people on this board sick for six years--fair is fair. If you think you are going to get sick--stay in your basement, with your mask, and social distancing and hand sanitizer. LMAO. Coward.

 

[meaner gene]

So do a lot of other things, Hell 95000 die from alcohol every year.

Only 2% of those deaths are from alcohol poisoning.

 

[gipper]

I hear 25 percent still refuse to be vaccinated

What an embarrassment

What do you think the government should do to these people.

I think employers should refuse to allow people to work until they can prove they are vaccinated

Yet you think Trump was a tyrant. Lol.

 

[meaner gene]

Covid alone killed only 6% of the deaths reported.

Alcohol alone killed only 2% of the deaths reported.

 

[Dadoalex]

My view is that it is an experimental treatment, and I am not interested in participating in the human trials.

I will observe the test subjects and results, and base my decision whether to accept the vaccine, or not, upon that and that alone.

Well said!

The "hesitant" fall into several categories.

On either side, the anti-vax people. These are the real nutjobs and nothing short of legal force will get them in line. I'd guess less than 2% of the total population.
Legitimately fearful. People living with infirmaries that lead them to legitimately fear potential side effects. not sure these should be vaccinated. Maybe 5%
Fearful but not Legitimate. Like the group above, fearful of the side effects but their fears are not reality based. Maybe 1%
Cautious. Like Billy here. Taking a cautious, intellectual approach. Probably between 5-10%.
"Own the Libs." The single driver for perhaps 15%

If we can get If we get all we can that leaves us at 76% or so. Not enough for "herd immunity" but, I've a solution that solves 2 problems at once.

At the Federal level a voter ID requirement and the only acceptable ID is a vaccination card.
Of course we'll offer "same day" vaccination voting
Killing two birds with one stone.
Republicans get their universal voter ID and Democrats get near 100% vaccination rate.
Whatcha think kids?

 

[007]

Herd immunity is the road to endless mutations.

Prove it.

It's the source of at least half a dozen more virulent mutations.

Prove it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's worth every bit as much as yours or anyone else's.

Yes. Exactly jack shit. Get it through your head.

 

[Concerned American]

2 million HERE.

That's worldwide deaths, dummy.

 

[konradv]

Well there's always the FEMA camps. I mean, if people don't want the vaccine, that's their choice, but the rest of us shouldn't be put at risk, because of their obstinance. It's just self defense and justifiable, IMO.

Now wait a minute ....How are these people putting you at risk if you have been vaccinated. That doesn't make any sense.

Vaccinations aren't 100% effective in all people, children under 16 aren't getting the vaccine and the unvaccinated become breeding grounds for variants that may be deadlier than the original and against which the vaccine isn't effective. Is that enough? I really don't think the rest of us should face an existential threat, just because of the "feels" of the anti-vaxxers. LOCK THEM UP!

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, for those of you who are saying the vaccines don't work.............consider this..................the US has done an aggressive vaccination program, and cases as well as deaths are going steadily down. I mean hell, look at the fact that a lot of places are starting to open up, and around 1/3 of the country has had at least 1 shot.

India, on the other hand, is now the place where COVID is running rampant, and there are lots of people getting the disease and dying from it (just watch the news reports). India has only had 2 percent of their population get vaccinated.

Me? I've had both shots of the MODERNA vaccine (provided to me by the VA), and am now past the 2 week mark where they said the 2nd shot takes full effect, and I've had no bad side effects from either shot. First one was a piece of cake, got the shot, and nothing happened, but they warned me that the second shot is where I could possibly experience side effects. After the second shot? My arm was sore as hell for 3 days afterwards, and I felt a bit more tired than usual for the next 4 days. But, after a week, I was back to 100 percent.

As far as the J and J vaccine causing blood clots? The only cases that showed up were women, and there was less than 10 of them, out of over 7 million vaccines given.

Get the vaccine people, help the country open back up and get back to normal.

 

[konradv]

Well there's always the FEMA camps. I mean, if people don't want the vaccine, that's their choice, but the rest of us shouldn't be put at risk, because of their obstinance. It's just self defense and justifiable, IMO.

You don't have to be, just stay at home. The world is a dangerous place and it's your choice each time you venture out.

If the majority gets vaccinated, guess who's going to have to stay home? Vaccine passports are a necessity and the anti-vaxxers can just hole up in their bunkers.

 

[John T. Ford]

That's backwards logic. That a company that pulls a product out of caution, proves the product is defective. Where a company that continues to distribute, proves it's safe.

No that's logic for normal thinking people.

Some people recieving the Johnson & Johnson vaccine developed CVST's.

Johnson & Johnson then pulls vaccine.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Vaccinations aren't 100% effective in all people, children under 16 aren't getting the vaccine and the unvaccinated become breeding grounds for variants that may be deadlier than the original and against which the vaccine isn't effective. Is that enough? I really don't think the rest of us should face an existential threat, just because of the "feels" of the anti-vaxxers. LOCK THEM UP!

I guess you haven't been watching the news as of late, because children (and in some cases infants), are being given the vaccine in trials to see how effective it is for them.

Children as young as 6 months old now in COVID-19 vaccine trials

Though children account for a very small portion of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S., experts say children can become infected and transmit to others.

abcnews.go.com

 

[konradv]

Well there's always the FEMA camps. I mean, if people don't want the vaccine, that's their choice, but the rest of us shouldn't be put at risk, because of their obstinance. It's just self defense and justifiable, IMO.

You don't have to be, just stay at home. The world is a dangerous place and it's your choice each time you venture out.

Konrad must be a neo-Nazi Ukrainian. Or related to one.

Self defense id being a Nazi? So everyone that buys a gun for that reason is a Nazi? Your lack critical thinking is mind boggling.

 

[DukeU]

Yes. Exactly jack shit. Get it through your head.

Will not comply with your dempanic. Get it through your head or not, really don't matter to me what you think. You have NO bearing on my life whatsoever.

 

[ABikerSailor]

That's backwards logic. That a company that pulls a product out of caution, proves the product is defective. Where a company that continues to distribute, proves it's safe.

No that's logic for normal thinking people.

Some people recieving the Johnson & Johnson vaccine developed CVST's.

Johnson & Johnson then pulls vaccine.

J and J didn't "pull" the vaccine like you are claiming, after the blood clot cases, they actually suspended it, but now, they are getting back on track to start distribution again.

 

[konradv]

I hear 25 percent still refuse to be vaccinated What an embarrassment

What do you think the government should do to these people.

Well there's always the FEMA camps. I mean, if people don't want the vaccine, that's their choice, but the rest of us shouldn't be put at risk, because of their obstinance. It's just self defense and justifiable, IMO.

BOO...get a life.

I want to keep my life. That's why we need to be segregated from the virus factories that the anti-vaxxers will surely become.

 

[DukeU]

If the majority gets vaccinated, guess who's going to have to stay home? Vaccine passports are a necessity and the anti-vaxxers can just hole up in their bunkers.

Wishful thinking. Why would we have to stay home? To save people who have been vaccinated?!? Makes no sense.