The Wages Of Ordinary American Workers Has Increased 9% in Forty Years

[NightFox]

If it is such a "deal" businesses wouldn't move but apparently you didn't get the memo to the effect that for profit businesses are in business to make money NOT fulfill some esoteric patriotic "duty", businesses make money by providing an attractive value proposition to consumers which not only benefits the businesses but also benefits consumers and enriches society as a whole.

Make the business climate more business friendly (lower taxes and less regulatory costs) and you'll attract business and thus benefit domestic society, make the climate business hostile and you'll drive businesses away and thus damage domestic society.

It's called a cost-benefit analysis and it's pretty simple to understand once you get past all the idiotic anti-capitalism, anti-business rhetoric spouted by asshole politicians trying to sucker the public into voting for them.

I understand how business works. My beef is with the model they've chosen.
Everybody pays, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked. Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so?

Err..um... probably something to do with the fact that businesses derive profit by making society richer, take a look around you, would you be poorer or richer without private enterprise? If you take away more money from private enterprise and hand it over to politicians and bureaucrats do you think that is going to make society richer than say leaving that money in the hands of entrepreneurs to produce goods and services that society wants and needs? Do you think government is more efficient and less prone to waste, fraud and abuse than private enterprise?

The fact of the matter is that more the money that is extracted from the productive economy by government the less efficient our economy becomes and thus we get more unemployment, less wage growth and higher prices at reduced quality.

At what point do we consider these as no longer American enterprises?

At what point does it matter? Personally I don't care if a business is considered or considers itself an "American" enterprise, what I'm concerned with as a consumer is the value proposition that it offers and whether or not that value proposition offers me the consumer a profitable exchange (i.e. that business is offering me a good or service that is worth more to ME than the price asked).

They want the benefits of the availability of capital, infrastructure, markets, security, etc without paying the dues to be in the club.

How did you come to that conclusion? Businesses pay all sorts of taxes to local, state and federal government ABOVE AND BEYOND just federal income taxes not to mention that they have to bear an enormous cost due to regulations. If you want to increase the cost of doing business in the United States you're going to have to resign yourself to the fact that business are going to continue to seek greener pastures overseas because in today's hyper-competitive global economy that's what they need to do to survive and prosper.

Err..um... probably something to do with the fact that businesses derive profit by making society richer, take a look around you, would you be poorer or richer without private enterprise?

So full of shit. That makes no sense at all. Pfizer enriches no one but themselves.

Pfizer's CEO Faces The Drug Pricing Firestorm

So your theory is that Pfizer produces nothing that consumers willingly buy at the price Pfizer offers it at?

That's not what I said or responded to.

That's why there's a question mark there, it was a request for clarification to make sure that I understood the point you were trying to express correctly.

" willingly buy"
Yes because people have unlimited choices when a lifesaving drug is required from the only manufacturer of that drug.

So nobody is forced to buy what Pfizer is offering thus consumers are demonstrating that what Pfizer is offering is worth the price they are asking for in exchange for it, which indicates that those consumers feel that the Pfizer's products are worth more to them than the price asked, thus the consumers of Pfizers products end up being RICHER due to their voluntary exchange with Pfizer.

The other point that you seem to be missing is that nobody is stopping competitors from offering alternatives to Pfizer's products, well except for government bureaucrats and politicians engaging in typical gub'mint sponsored cronyism that is.

 

[gipper]

What I really like about the free market is that when I find something made out of the country, I don't buy that product.

If trump or Hillary came out proposing that American consumers just say no to foreign made goods, that would change the attitudes of many companies.

Lose the American markets and see how much those low.tax and low wage countries really cost companies.

Do companies still make money when their product doesn't sell?

If that had happened, we would still be driving the shitty cars Detroit produced in the 1970s, but paying a lot more for them.

 

[NightFox]

Good luck with your crusade though, let me know how that works out for ya.

Not a crusade. However I have followed my own advice to buy domestically for a long long time.

Bully for you, how's that crusade working out so far?

Btw your Bullshit about American product being inferior.

That isn't what I said or implied . go back and read it again and this time put the trailer trash voices in your head on mute.

 

[hadit]

That's dumb. All employees do not represent equal value to the company. Why should a slacker get the same raise and bonus as a superstar?

That's dumb. All employees do not represent equal value to the company. Why should a slacker get the same raise and bonus as a superstar?

Why would you hire or keep a slacker?

Apparently, you're not supposed to notice differences in the value of work employees produce.

Apparently, you're not supposed to notice differences in the value of work employees produce.

You brought it up. Why would you hire or keep a slacker?

Slacker is a relative term. Even if all of your employees are above average, there will still be weaker and stronger performers. Again, why should he/she get the same rewards as the superstar?

A slacker is someone who puts off doing things to the last minute. If you have a correctly written policy and procedure, you don't have slackers.

That's just one definition. Another is someone who doesn't do as much work as the rest, and there will always be a best and a poorest performer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It makes it harder and more expensive to operate a business in this country so businesses leave therefore wages are supressed

It makes it harder and more expensive to operate a business in this country so businesses leave therefore wages are supressed

I own five businesses and Angel Invest two others, I haven't seen 'harder and more expensive.' Businesses leave for two reasons; 1) To walk away from taxes owed. 2) Do to investor/share holder demand.

uh huh that's why Pfizer moved it's HQ to walk away from taxes owed

Business move when the profit margin increase outweighs the expense and inconvenience of moving

Their effective tax rate was reasonable last year. Certainly not a profit killer. They're just getting on board the douchey, anti American business train.

Pfizer Inc. (PFE) | Income Taxes

Pfizer Inc., effective income tax rate (EITR) reconciliation

Effective tax rate for income from continuing operations 22.20%

And businesses move when the expected profit increase outweighs the cost and inconvenience of moving

So they move because they would make MORE somewhere else.

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

No business has any allegiance to a country never has never will
The thinking that is killing us is that businesses should just stay here simply because this is America. The new reality is we have to make businesses want to stay here.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well now, instead of flap yapping, why don't you post those numbers? You know, what a Congressman makes, a Senator, and compare it to what industry pays people to influence those politicians? And use that influence to hold down wages.

compare it to what industry pays people to influence those politicians? And use that influence to hold down wages.

What does the government do to hold down wages?

It makes it harder and more expensive to operate a business in this country so businesses leave therefore wages are supressed

It makes it harder and more expensive to operate a business in this country so businesses leave therefore wages are supressed

I own five businesses and Angel Invest two others, I haven't seen 'harder and more expensive.' Businesses leave for two reasons; 1) To walk away from taxes owed. 2) Do to investor/share holder demand.

Businesses leave for two reasons; 1) To walk away from taxes owed.

How does walking away reduce tax they already owe.

Businesses leave for two reasons; 1) To walk away from taxes owed.

How does walking away reduce tax they already owe.

You defer income multiple years and walk. There isn't anyone for the IRS to collect from.

You defer income multiple years

You defer what income? Where?

That sounds like reducing future taxes, not taxes already owed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It makes it harder and more expensive to operate a business in this country so businesses leave therefore wages are supressed

I own five businesses and Angel Invest two others, I haven't seen 'harder and more expensive.' Businesses leave for two reasons; 1) To walk away from taxes owed. 2) Do to investor/share holder demand.

uh huh that's why Pfizer moved it's HQ to walk away from taxes owed

Business move when the profit margin increase outweighs the expense and inconvenience of moving

Their effective tax rate was reasonable last year. Certainly not a profit killer. They're just getting on board the douchey, anti American business train.

Pfizer Inc. (PFE) | Income Taxes

Pfizer Inc., effective income tax rate (EITR) reconciliation

Effective tax rate for income from continuing operations 22.20%

Their effective tax rate was reasonable last year. Certainly not a profit killer. They're just getting on board the douchey, anti American business train.

Pfizer Inc. (PFE) | Income Taxes

Pfizer Inc., effective income tax rate (EITR) reconciliation

Effective tax rate for income from continuing operations 22.20%

So they paid what, 3% of total revenue in federal tax?

So they paid what, 3% of total revenue in federal tax?

Businesses are taxed on profit, not revenue.

Businesses are taxed on profit, not revenue.

And again, how much did they pay vs. you?

And again, more.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It makes it harder and more expensive to operate a business in this country so businesses leave therefore wages are supressed

I own five businesses and Angel Invest two others, I haven't seen 'harder and more expensive.' Businesses leave for two reasons; 1) To walk away from taxes owed. 2) Do to investor/share holder demand.

uh huh that's why Pfizer moved it's HQ to walk away from taxes owed

Business move when the profit margin increase outweighs the expense and inconvenience of moving

Their effective tax rate was reasonable last year. Certainly not a profit killer. They're just getting on board the douchey, anti American business train.

Pfizer Inc. (PFE) | Income Taxes

Pfizer Inc., effective income tax rate (EITR) reconciliation

Effective tax rate for income from continuing operations 22.20%

And businesses move when the expected profit increase outweighs the cost and inconvenience of moving

So they move because they would make MORE somewhere else.

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

No business has any allegiance to a country never has never will
The thinking that is killing us is that businesses should just stay here simply because this is America. The new reality is we have to make businesses want to stay here.

Then buh bye. Don't need ya.
Why do you all defend business so fervently while expressing contempt for workers?
I simply don't understand the thinking.
The reality is that all of the business activity in America is only at any time 10-20% of GDP. On the other hand the workers of America drive the largest part of GDP, currently 70%.
You all give a pass to anything business does even when it hinders overall growth. You all, for some unknown reason, support all of the gains going to a small share of our economy at the expense of the rest then complain about slow growth.
It's truly baffling to me.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

If it is such a "deal" businesses wouldn't move but apparently you didn't get the memo to the effect that for profit businesses are in business to make money NOT fulfill some esoteric patriotic "duty", businesses make money by providing an attractive value proposition to consumers which not only benefits the businesses but also benefits consumers and enriches society as a whole.

Make the business climate more business friendly (lower taxes and less regulatory costs) and you'll attract business and thus benefit domestic society, make the climate business hostile and you'll drive businesses away and thus damage domestic society.

It's called a cost-benefit analysis and it's pretty simple to understand once you get past all the idiotic anti-capitalism, anti-business rhetoric spouted by asshole politicians trying to sucker the public into voting for them.

I understand how business works. My beef is with the model they've chosen.
Everybody pays, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked. Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so? At what point do we consider these as no longer American enterprises? They want the benefits of the availability of capital, infrastructure, markets, security, etc without paying the dues to be in the club.

Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so?

More jobs for American workers, more profits for American shareholders. Durr.

 

[BlackSand]

" willingly buy"
Yes because people have unlimited choices when a lifesaving drug is required from the only manufacturer of that drug.

How much is your life worth to you?

.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

If it is such a "deal" businesses wouldn't move but apparently you didn't get the memo to the effect that for profit businesses are in business to make money NOT fulfill some esoteric patriotic "duty", businesses make money by providing an attractive value proposition to consumers which not only benefits the businesses but also benefits consumers and enriches society as a whole.

Make the business climate more business friendly (lower taxes and less regulatory costs) and you'll attract business and thus benefit domestic society, make the climate business hostile and you'll drive businesses away and thus damage domestic society.

It's called a cost-benefit analysis and it's pretty simple to understand once you get past all the idiotic anti-capitalism, anti-business rhetoric spouted by asshole politicians trying to sucker the public into voting for them.

I understand how business works. My beef is with the model they've chosen.
Everybody pays, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked. Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so? At what point do we consider these as no longer American enterprises? They want the benefits of the availability of capital, infrastructure, markets, security, etc without paying the dues to be in the club.

Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so?

More jobs for American workers, more profits for American shareholders. Durr.

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

" willingly buy"
Yes because people have unlimited choices when a lifesaving drug is required from the only manufacturer of that drug.

How much is your life worth to you?

.

Apparently quite a lot. Of course you find deriving profits in such a way morally ambiguous.

 

[NightFox]

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

Tax breaks and regulatory relief, unless you want businesses to continue to move overseas where taxes and regulatory burdens are lower. Are you under the impression that you can tax & regulate your way to domestic prosperity? how's that been working out so far?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If it is such a "deal" businesses wouldn't move but apparently you didn't get the memo to the effect that for profit businesses are in business to make money NOT fulfill some esoteric patriotic "duty", businesses make money by providing an attractive value proposition to consumers which not only benefits the businesses but also benefits consumers and enriches society as a whole.

Make the business climate more business friendly (lower taxes and less regulatory costs) and you'll attract business and thus benefit domestic society, make the climate business hostile and you'll drive businesses away and thus damage domestic society.

It's called a cost-benefit analysis and it's pretty simple to understand once you get past all the idiotic anti-capitalism, anti-business rhetoric spouted by asshole politicians trying to sucker the public into voting for them.

I understand how business works. My beef is with the model they've chosen.
Everybody pays, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked. Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so?

Err..um... probably something to do with the fact that businesses derive profit by making society richer, take a look around you, would you be poorer or richer without private enterprise? If you take away more money from private enterprise and hand it over to politicians and bureaucrats do you think that is going to make society richer than say leaving that money in the hands of entrepreneurs to produce goods and services that society wants and needs? Do you think government is more efficient and less prone to waste, fraud and abuse than private enterprise?

The fact of the matter is that more the money that is extracted from the productive economy by government the less efficient our economy becomes and thus we get more unemployment, less wage growth and higher prices at reduced quality.

At what point do we consider these as no longer American enterprises?

At what point does it matter? Personally I don't care if a business is considered or considers itself an "American" enterprise, what I'm concerned with as a consumer is the value proposition that it offers and whether or not that value proposition offers me the consumer a profitable exchange (i.e. that business is offering me a good or service that is worth more to ME than the price asked).

They want the benefits of the availability of capital, infrastructure, markets, security, etc without paying the dues to be in the club.

How did you come to that conclusion? Businesses pay all sorts of taxes to local, state and federal government ABOVE AND BEYOND just federal income taxes not to mention that they have to bear an enormous cost due to regulations. If you want to increase the cost of doing business in the United States you're going to have to resign yourself to the fact that business are going to continue to seek greener pastures overseas because in today's hyper-competitive global economy that's what they need to do to survive and prosper.

Err..um... probably something to do with the fact that businesses derive profit by making society richer, take a look around you, would you be poorer or richer without private enterprise?

So full of shit. That makes no sense at all. Pfizer enriches no one but themselves.

Pfizer's CEO Faces The Drug Pricing Firestorm

So your theory is that Pfizer produces nothing that consumers willingly buy at the price Pfizer offers it at?

That's not what I said or responded to.

" willingly buy"
Yes because people have unlimited choices when a lifesaving drug is required from the only manufacturer of that drug.

a lifesaving drug

Yes, they enrich the lives of those whose use their life-saving/improving products.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

uh huh that's why Pfizer moved it's HQ to walk away from taxes owed

Business move when the profit margin increase outweighs the expense and inconvenience of moving

Their effective tax rate was reasonable last year. Certainly not a profit killer. They're just getting on board the douchey, anti American business train.

Pfizer Inc. (PFE) | Income Taxes

Pfizer Inc., effective income tax rate (EITR) reconciliation

Effective tax rate for income from continuing operations 22.20%

And businesses move when the expected profit increase outweighs the cost and inconvenience of moving

So they move because they would make MORE somewhere else.

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

No business has any allegiance to a country never has never will
The thinking that is killing us is that businesses should just stay here simply because this is America. The new reality is we have to make businesses want to stay here.

Then buh bye. Don't need ya.
Why do you all defend business so fervently while expressing contempt for workers?
I simply don't understand the thinking.
The reality is that all of the business activity in America is only at any time 10-20% of GDP. On the other hand the workers of America drive the largest part of GDP, currently 70%.
You all give a pass to anything business does even when it hinders overall growth. You all, for some unknown reason, support all of the gains going to a small share of our economy at the expense of the rest then complain about slow growth.
It's truly baffling to me.

The reality is that all of the business activity in America is only at any time 10-20% of GDP

Shit you're clueless.
The government spending part of GDP is government buying goods and services produced by business.
The consumer spending part of GDP is consumers buying goods and services produced by business.
No wonder why you're a liberal, you're too dumb to be anything else.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

If it is such a "deal" businesses wouldn't move but apparently you didn't get the memo to the effect that for profit businesses are in business to make money NOT fulfill some esoteric patriotic "duty", businesses make money by providing an attractive value proposition to consumers which not only benefits the businesses but also benefits consumers and enriches society as a whole.

Make the business climate more business friendly (lower taxes and less regulatory costs) and you'll attract business and thus benefit domestic society, make the climate business hostile and you'll drive businesses away and thus damage domestic society.

It's called a cost-benefit analysis and it's pretty simple to understand once you get past all the idiotic anti-capitalism, anti-business rhetoric spouted by asshole politicians trying to sucker the public into voting for them.

I understand how business works. My beef is with the model they've chosen.
Everybody pays, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked. Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so? At what point do we consider these as no longer American enterprises? They want the benefits of the availability of capital, infrastructure, markets, security, etc without paying the dues to be in the club.

Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so?

More jobs for American workers, more profits for American shareholders. Durr.

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

View attachment 73763

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

Why don't we raise taxes and add more regulations on business.

That'll increase jobs for sure!!!

 

[Hutch Starskey]

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

Tax breaks and regulatory relief, unless you want businesses to continue to move overseas where taxes and regulatory burdens are lower. Are you under the impression that you can tax & regulate your way to domestic prosperity? how's that been working out so far?

Bullshit. By your logic then our economy must down size completely to compete directly with the smallest economies of the world. Just stupid. Business isn't a mindless enterprise that simply has to follow low costs around the globe. It's unmitigated greed diving that behavior.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

If it is such a "deal" businesses wouldn't move but apparently you didn't get the memo to the effect that for profit businesses are in business to make money NOT fulfill some esoteric patriotic "duty", businesses make money by providing an attractive value proposition to consumers which not only benefits the businesses but also benefits consumers and enriches society as a whole.

Make the business climate more business friendly (lower taxes and less regulatory costs) and you'll attract business and thus benefit domestic society, make the climate business hostile and you'll drive businesses away and thus damage domestic society.

It's called a cost-benefit analysis and it's pretty simple to understand once you get past all the idiotic anti-capitalism, anti-business rhetoric spouted by asshole politicians trying to sucker the public into voting for them.

I understand how business works. My beef is with the model they've chosen.
Everybody pays, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked. Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so? At what point do we consider these as no longer American enterprises? They want the benefits of the availability of capital, infrastructure, markets, security, etc without paying the dues to be in the club.

Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so?

More jobs for American workers, more profits for American shareholders. Durr.

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

View attachment 73763

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

Why don't we raise taxes and add more regulations on business.

That'll increase jobs for sure!!!

No answer? Go figure.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Their effective tax rate was reasonable last year. Certainly not a profit killer. They're just getting on board the douchey, anti American business train.

Pfizer Inc. (PFE) | Income Taxes

Pfizer Inc., effective income tax rate (EITR) reconciliation

Effective tax rate for income from continuing operations 22.20%

And businesses move when the expected profit increase outweighs the cost and inconvenience of moving

So they move because they would make MORE somewhere else.

It's that thinking that's killing us. How many billions in after tax profits is enough to sell out your country and people?
There's the rub. 20% isn't shit in taxes, it's a deal for what they get in return.

No business has any allegiance to a country never has never will
The thinking that is killing us is that businesses should just stay here simply because this is America. The new reality is we have to make businesses want to stay here.

Then buh bye. Don't need ya.
Why do you all defend business so fervently while expressing contempt for workers?
I simply don't understand the thinking.
The reality is that all of the business activity in America is only at any time 10-20% of GDP. On the other hand the workers of America drive the largest part of GDP, currently 70%.
You all give a pass to anything business does even when it hinders overall growth. You all, for some unknown reason, support all of the gains going to a small share of our economy at the expense of the rest then complain about slow growth.
It's truly baffling to me.

The reality is that all of the business activity in America is only at any time 10-20% of GDP

Shit you're clueless.
The government spending part of GDP is government buying goods and services produced by business.
The consumer spending part of GDP is consumers buying goods and services produced by business.
No wonder why you're a liberal, you're too dumb to be anything else.

Shit you're clueless.

That you are amigo. That you are.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If it is such a "deal" businesses wouldn't move but apparently you didn't get the memo to the effect that for profit businesses are in business to make money NOT fulfill some esoteric patriotic "duty", businesses make money by providing an attractive value proposition to consumers which not only benefits the businesses but also benefits consumers and enriches society as a whole.

Make the business climate more business friendly (lower taxes and less regulatory costs) and you'll attract business and thus benefit domestic society, make the climate business hostile and you'll drive businesses away and thus damage domestic society.

It's called a cost-benefit analysis and it's pretty simple to understand once you get past all the idiotic anti-capitalism, anti-business rhetoric spouted by asshole politicians trying to sucker the public into voting for them.

I understand how business works. My beef is with the model they've chosen.
Everybody pays, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked. Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so? At what point do we consider these as no longer American enterprises? They want the benefits of the availability of capital, infrastructure, markets, security, etc without paying the dues to be in the club.

Lowering taxes to a non existant level to give a private enterprise more profit is not the answer. What's the benefit to America of doing so?

More jobs for American workers, more profits for American shareholders. Durr.

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

View attachment 73763

OK, so there's no room for jobs and wages as it stands now? A tax break is required?

Why don't we raise taxes and add more regulations on business.

That'll increase jobs for sure!!!

No answer? Go figure.

Well, if taxes and regulations cost $10 billion here and $5 billion elsewhere, there will be a tendency to move to the less expensive location.

Now you can bitch and whine when a company moves, or you can make it more attractive to remain here.
I know which of those actions will result in more American jobs.