The Way it Was (Pre-Roe v Wade)

[jwoodie]

Fear of unwanted pregnancy used to be the most effective contraceptive. Now it is a minor inconvenience to be erased by a ghoulish abortionist. Some people consider that progress.

 

[Staidhup]

Regardless of politics, the right to have an abortion is etched in stone. The moral and emotional decision is one the female must shoulder and remains between her and God. The government should not be forced or coerced to provide financial assistance nor support for birth control, this is for the women to shoulder and accept the full consequences for their actions. If those that support abortions wish to finance clinics and birth control so be it, but do not ask American Tax payers to shoulder the financial burden. I know of many families that would love to have the gift of a child and would make great parents if given the opportunity.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Remember the fact that Griswold/Roe/Casey isn’t solely about ‘abortion,’ it’s about the right to privacy, it’s about government restriction where the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects is paramount, as guaranteed by the 4th Amendment. Consequently, a woman has a right to privacy, and in the context of that right to privacy any undue burden manifested by the state to interfere with that right – whatever she elects to do, with regard to any type of contraception – is invalid and un-Constitutional.

Everyone is pro-life, everyone is anti-abortion, there’s no dispute in that; the conflict arises with regard to how to actually end the practice.

 

[Delia]

Fear of unwanted pregnancy used to be the most effective contraceptive. Now it is a minor inconvenience to be erased by a ghoulish abortionist. Some people consider that progress.

"Fear of unwanted pregnancy" needs to be as big a deal for the male as it is the female, and that is rarely the case.

 

[Delia]

It feels like all the usual talking points are being bandied about, without actually discussing the experiences of the author of the article.

 

[Staidhup]

Remember the fact that Griswold/Roe/Casey isn’t solely about ‘abortion,’ it’s about the right to privacy, it’s about government restriction where the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects is paramount, as guaranteed by the 4th Amendment. Consequently, a woman has a right to privacy, and in the context of that right to privacy any undue burden manifested by the state to interfere with that right – whatever she elects to do, with regard to any type of contraception – is invalid and un-Constitutional.

Everyone is pro-life, everyone is anti-abortion, there’s no dispute in that; the conflict arises with regard to how to actually end the practice.

And thus you have the "Supreme Court Creating Law" not the interpretation of law. Employing the 4th amendment is a weak stretch at best. In retrospect congress did not have the balls to pass a law it knew would never pass muster.

 

[arKangel]

"Fear of unwanted pregnancy" needs to be as big a deal for the male as it is the female, and that is rarely the case.

Fear of pregnancy is the cultural issue.
Baby-haters have spent a lot of money to paint babies as a "punishment".

Perhaps that is a topic that should be discussed more,
Why should people hate babies?

 

[Delia]

"Fear of unwanted pregnancy" needs to be as big a deal for the male as it is the female, and that is rarely the case.

Fear of pregnancy is the cultural issue.
Baby-haters have spent a lot of money to paint babies as a "punishment".

Perhaps that is a topic that should be discussed more,
Why should people hate babies?

You should start a thread on that subject.

 

[MHunterB]

IMHO, at birth a DNA sample should be taken from male infants and the results recorded in a nationwide bank.

Good thing you're in the clean zone.

Are you unable to voice your objections to seeking to hold males responsible for
accidental' pregnancies without resorting to obscenity or insults?

I can't understand why anyone would object to being able to identify the other parent: would you make the effort to explain your views, please?

 

[Delia]

Misreading of graph led to embarrassing post.

 

[MHunterB]

"Fear of unwanted pregnancy" needs to be as big a deal for the male as it is the female, and that is rarely the case.

Fear of pregnancy is the cultural issue.
Baby-haters have spent a lot of money to paint babies as a "punishment".

Perhaps that is a topic that should be discussed more,
Why should people hate babies?

Actually a very good question: Why do the politicians who rushed to outlaw a legitimate medical procedure, refuse to allocate money for all the orphanages, schools and clinics that will be necessary if abortion is nearly completely outlawed?

I figure those are the real 'baby-haters', since they want those million or so babies to be born every single year - but have never once attached any funding to care for those 'unborn' children who will be born???

"What gets rewarded gets done" is a rule of thumb which holds true in politics as well as business. And so far, nobody has chosen to reward pregnant women with child support.

 

[Dr Grump]

The Way It Was | Mother Jones

This is a very hard article to read, and will be for both sides of the discussion. I'm pro-choice, though that is not a choice I would ever make for myself. The first page is quite graphic, giving specifics of abortion. The rest is graphic as to what happens when it's not a legal option.

It's a long article, but I believe it to be worth the time it takes to read it.

I really wouldn't want to see Roe v Wade repealed.

No offense, Delia, but I found the article just another endless excuse for why women should be allowed to murder their unborn children. Especially disgusting is that she's trying to rationalize partial birth abortions, we all know that if they weren't illegal, it wouldn't be '12 year olds raped by their uncle' that would be getting them. Just like it isn't '12 year olds raped by their uncles' that are responsible for the millions of babies killed every year in this country, and the millions of dollars in literal blood money the abortion industry makes off of these 'poor women who are just victims'. Just so tired of hearing it.

They are not children if they are unborn. They are a foetus. Words have meanings.

 

[Delia]

Approximately 1.2 million abortions a year in the U.S. Why isn't education and easy access to birth control making that number significantly drop every year? No one would ever personally have an abortion, it's only needed for those women who are victims of crimes, etc... yet we're at 1.2 million a year.

No. Citation. I want to see documentation to back up what you're saying.

For instance:

Abortion rates plummet with free birth control | e! Science News

Yeah, wouldn't that be nice if the government forced abortion clinics to keep accurate records and report how many they do each an every year. Yet they don't, and the reason they don't is just so people like you can refute the numbers put up. So is your stance that they're going down? There aren't 1.2 million abortions per year. Put up your statistics to show what the actual number is then.

Participation is completely voluntary, and they have no data past 2008, isn't that convenient?

Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2008

Description of System: Each year, CDC requests abortion data from the central health agencies of 52 reporting areas (the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and New York City). This information is provided voluntarily. For 2008, data were received from 49 reporting areas. For the purpose of trend analysis, data were evaluated from the 45 areas that reported data every year during 1999--2008. Abortion rates (number of abortions per 1,000 women) and ratios (number of abortions per 1,000 live births) were calculated using census and natality data, respectively.

Results: A total of 825,564 abortions were reported to CDC for 2008. Of these, 808,528 abortions (97.9% of the total) were from the 45 reporting areas that provided data every year during 1999--2008. Among these same 45 reporting areas, the abortion rate for 2008 was 16.0 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15--44 years, and the abortion ratio was 234 abortions per 1,000 live births. Compared with 2007, the total number and rate of reported abortions for these 45 reporting areas essentially were unchanged, although the abortion ratio was 1% higher. Reported abortion numbers, rates, and ratios remained 3%, 4%, and 10% lower, respectively, in 2008 than they had been in 1999.

Abortion Statistics for the United States

Doesn't look like they've changed, other than they have significantly gone up since 1973, and then went down slightly, and haven't changed much within the last 10 years or so.

Incorrect.

http://www.nrlc.org/Factsheets/FS03_AbortionInTheUS.pdf

I was looking at the right column in my earlier post, which led to my deleted post. However, 1.2 million is way down from over 1.6 million.

 

[arKangel]

Fear of pregnancy is the cultural issue.
Baby-haters have spent a lot of money to paint babies as a "punishment".

Perhaps that is a topic that should be discussed more,
Why should people hate babies?

You should start a thread on that subject.

Well, considering the topic has already been raised in this thread,
Why not discuss?

 

[PixieStix]

The Way It Was | Mother Jones

This is a very hard article to read, and will be for both sides of the discussion. I'm pro-choice, though that is not a choice I would ever make for myself. The first page is quite graphic, giving specifics of abortion. The rest is graphic as to what happens when it's not a legal option.

It's a long article, but I believe it to be worth the time it takes to read it.

I really wouldn't want to see Roe v Wade repealed.

No offense, Delia, but I found the article just another endless excuse for why women should be allowed to murder their unborn children. Especially disgusting is that she's trying to rationalize partial birth abortions, we all know that if they weren't illegal, it wouldn't be '12 year olds raped by their uncle' that would be getting them. Just like it isn't '12 year olds raped by their uncles' that are responsible for the millions of babies killed every year in this country, and the millions of dollars in literal blood money the abortion industry makes off of these 'poor women who are just victims'. Just so tired of hearing it.

They are not children if they are unborn. They are a foetus. Words have meanings.

Words do have meaning but a fetus does not have any meaning whatsoever to some. Sad

 

[Noomi]

The Way It Was | Mother Jones

This is a very hard article to read, and will be for both sides of the discussion. I'm pro-choice, though that is not a choice I would ever make for myself. The first page is quite graphic, giving specifics of abortion. The rest is graphic as to what happens when it's not a legal option.

It's a long article, but I believe it to be worth the time it takes to read it.

I really wouldn't want to see Roe v Wade repealed.

The lifers wouldn't care about how it was before Roe. They'd like to see more women suffer and die, or live with health problems all their lives from trying to abort a pregnancy. Not appropriate for CDZ> Newby

 

[whitehall]

The Way It Was | Mother Jones

This is a very hard article to read, and will be for both sides of the discussion. I'm pro-choice, though that is not a choice I would ever make for myself. The first page is quite graphic, giving specifics of abortion. The rest is graphic as to what happens when it's not a legal option.

It's a long article, but I believe it to be worth the time it takes to read it.

I really wouldn't want to see Roe v Wade repealed.

I didn't read the article but I know where Ma Jones stands on most issues. What happens when hiring someone to kill your unborn baby is not a legal option? Surely you jest. What happens when murder is not a legal option?

 

[Newby]

No. Citation. I want to see documentation to back up what you're saying.

For instance:

Abortion rates plummet with free birth control | e! Science News

Yeah, wouldn't that be nice if the government forced abortion clinics to keep accurate records and report how many they do each an every year. Yet they don't, and the reason they don't is just so people like you can refute the numbers put up. So is your stance that they're going down? There aren't 1.2 million abortions per year. Put up your statistics to show what the actual number is then.

Participation is completely voluntary, and they have no data past 2008, isn't that convenient?

Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2008

Description of System: Each year, CDC requests abortion data from the central health agencies of 52 reporting areas (the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and New York City). This information is provided voluntarily. For 2008, data were received from 49 reporting areas. For the purpose of trend analysis, data were evaluated from the 45 areas that reported data every year during 1999--2008. Abortion rates (number of abortions per 1,000 women) and ratios (number of abortions per 1,000 live births) were calculated using census and natality data, respectively.

Results: A total of 825,564 abortions were reported to CDC for 2008. Of these, 808,528 abortions (97.9% of the total) were from the 45 reporting areas that provided data every year during 1999--2008. Among these same 45 reporting areas, the abortion rate for 2008 was 16.0 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15--44 years, and the abortion ratio was 234 abortions per 1,000 live births. Compared with 2007, the total number and rate of reported abortions for these 45 reporting areas essentially were unchanged, although the abortion ratio was 1% higher. Reported abortion numbers, rates, and ratios remained 3%, 4%, and 10% lower, respectively, in 2008 than they had been in 1999.

Abortion Statistics for the United States

Doesn't look like they've changed, other than they have significantly gone up since 1973, and then went down slightly, and haven't changed much within the last 10 years or so.

Incorrect.

http://www.nrlc.org/Factsheets/FS03_AbortionInTheUS.pdf

I was looking at the right column in my earlier post, which led to my deleted post. However, 1.2 million is way down from over 1.6 million.

You were questioning the 1.2 million figure, how many abortions were there prior to 1973 and the passing of Roe vs Wade? A lot less, and it hasn't gone down significantly since the steep rise after it was passed, even though there has been sex education, planned parenthood, and passing out condoms to children in school. It is used as a form of birth control, not to help poor victims of rape or incest, which is the excuse pro-abortionists continue to use year after year. Why not just say it's birth control? Why can't you bring yourself to do that? Every woman I've spoken to that's pro-abortion would 'never have one herself'. Why not?

Everyone knows it's morally wrong, that's the bottom line, and most women who do have abortions suffer from mental and emotional problems for years afterwards. But that is never researched or looked into, can't have anything negative staining the 'feminist church', abortion. Yeah, we're so powerful and in control, we can kill our own children at will. It's sad what our society has turned into and has called 'progress'.

 

[Newby]

The Way It Was | Mother Jones

This is a very hard article to read, and will be for both sides of the discussion. I'm pro-choice, though that is not a choice I would ever make for myself. The first page is quite graphic, giving specifics of abortion. The rest is graphic as to what happens when it's not a legal option.

It's a long article, but I believe it to be worth the time it takes to read it.

I really wouldn't want to see Roe v Wade repealed.

The lifers wouldn't care about how it was before Roe. They'd like to see more women suffer and die, or live with health problems all their lives from trying to abort a pregnancy. Not appropriate for CDZ> Newby

I'm a woman and pro-life Noomi, so to make the comment that I'd like to see more women suffer and die is pathetic, not to mention totally false. What about the women who live with guilt and mental issues the rest of their lives after they've killed their own baby? Or are they all proud of what they've done?

 

[Underhill]

Regardless of politics, the right to have an abortion is etched in stone. The moral and emotional decision is one the female must shoulder and remains between her and God. The government should not be forced or coerced to provide financial assistance nor support for birth control, this is for the women to shoulder and accept the full consequences for their actions. If those that support abortions wish to finance clinics and birth control so be it, but do not ask American Tax payers to shoulder the financial burden. I know of many families that would love to have the gift of a child and would make great parents if given the opportunity.

Yes, much better to shoulder the cost of childbirth than the cost of contraceptives...

Makes perfect sense to me.