This is how you deal with a DUI checkpoint

[M.D. Rawlings]

M.D.....The first video in the above post was the one I was referring to. It was conducted by the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department in Tennessee. I agree, the deputy took the situation waaaaaaay to far. But my question still stands.....what is the effective alternative to reducing injuries and death caused by drunk drivers if DUI roadblocks are discontinued?

I addressed that.

In other words, what would be the alternative without these checkpoints? What did cops used to do?

They used to pull one over based on real probable cause, obvious violations or unsteady driving.

I don't believe that suspicionless or warrantless stops, checkpoints, Nazi, "Show-me-your-papers" fishing expeditions are valid given the imperatives of natural and constitutional law regardless of what the Supreme Court has allowed in case law. I'm not willing to trade liberty for the inherent and increasingly obnoxious abuses of government "security," particularly given the increase in official criminality as a result of these impositions on our rights and our dignity. Too many cops act like our lords and masters nowadays, and much of it goes to these impositions.

That's why I invited you to carefully read my posts on the other threads and begin to consider the consequences through some other lens than the supposed security lens.

Most cops don't like us videoing them either. I wonder why.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZynmHyXFwU]Record the police! It's your right. Watch John Stossel's story! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've seen these types of videos before....one occurred in a neighboring county to mine and made it to youtube with hundreds of thousands of hits. It didn't end so well for the driver.

My question to the OP.....what is the alternative (to the DUI checkpoint) for removing alcohol-impaired drivers from the road? I've been stopped numerous times at DUI checkpoints, and have been treated with utmost courtesy (I'm not a consumer of alcohol).

How about actually driving around and pulling people over who are driving erratically? The amount of money and manpower resources that goes into a DUI checkpoint can be better spent by having those police available for calls where people are in actual danger.

Unless, of course, you have videos of DUI checkpoints actually saving lives by stopping an armed robbery, or something equally useful.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Piowqmm7fZ0]Stopped at a DUI Checkpoint? What to do. - YouTube[/ame]

Now this video features advice from a lawyer. Actually, aside from the advice to be polite, I don't recommend telling a cop what your lawyer has told you to do in these situations. Too much talk. The best lawyers will tell you to keep it simple, as close to absolute silence as possible.

"I don't answer questions. Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

Why should you let the officer know that you're not a lawyer? For reasons that should be obvious, let him think or suspect that you are.

By all means remain calm and be polite.

Of course, if you have been drinking, take the edge off your stance.

"I respectfully decline to answer questions, officer, but thank you for your service. Let me know when I'm free to go, please."

What's important about this video is the per se violation of the Fourth Amendment. Jones needs to pay attention to this most of all because his understanding of things is the academics of a child.

What this lawyer is getting at goes to the manner in which the stop is conducted. DUI checkpoints must be clearly marked in advance that one may avoid being unreasonably detained out of nowhere and just because, and cops cannot arbitrarily stop vehicles in them because such a pattern is open to charges of malicious bias, once again, suspicionless and unreasonable instances of harassment. Cops must either stop all the vehicles that go through them and ask the same initial question, or consistently stop every third or fourth vehicle, for example, and present the same initial question.

Now, of course, if someone comes through driving unsafely, the cops may legally stop that vehicle out of turn, for that establishes probable cause beyond all doubt. That wouldn’t be a suspicionless stop or per se violation of the Fourth in any way.

Which brings us to the reason why interior checkpoints, in my opinion, push the boundaries of legitimate police conduct to the breaking point in the first place. Consistently enforced or not, they remain suspicionless and warrantless stops. The Court’s legal maneuver around the principle of unreasonable stops or searches to accommodate the latest fad in public outrage or the respective government’s wont to line its coffers are as murky as the waters of the Danube and as open to abuse as a baby with a mitt full of candy.

 

[Sunshine]

I've seen these types of videos before....one occurred in a neighboring county to mine and made it to youtube with hundreds of thousands of hits. It didn't end so well for the driver.

My question to the OP.....what is the alternative (to the DUI checkpoint) for removing alcohol-impaired drivers from the road? I've been stopped numerous times at DUI checkpoints, and have been treated with utmost courtesy (I'm not a consumer of alcohol).

I would encourage you to carefully consider the matter in light of the inherent threats and degradations of our Fourth- and Fifth-Amendment rights as a result of certain Court allowances relative to this and related circumstances. Read my posts, as few of the posters don't have a clue.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...he-rise-of-the-poilice-state.html#post8764001

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ng-his-fifth-amendment-right.html#post8746174

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ng-his-fifth-amendment-right.html#post8748018

Also, see my rebuttal of Jones' idiocy in the above.

I would argue that allowing suspicionless and warrantless stops are harassment that condition us to think and act like cattle in the presence of badges, condition cops to look upon us as servants and encourage police brutality. They are not worth the price that's paid in terms of our liberties in the name of security.


Cops are often much more aggressive in DUI stops. . . . The cops in the above saw the camera. This cop didn't. Get the drift?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-WMn_zHCVo]4th of July DUI Checkpoint - Drug Dogs, Searched without Consent, while Innocent - YouTube[/ame]

Two problems here: (1) the cop is a bully and obviously doesn’t know the law and (2) the driver fails to assert his rights in an unmistakably direct manner at the beginning.

The right way: “I don’t answer questions. Am I being detained or am I free to go?” Period. Don't ask questions or make statements that weaken your position.

Also, he let the cop bully him into the secondary. Don’t put up with that! The officer is required by law to truthfully answer all questions pertinent to your rights, and he may not lie. You run into a cop who refuses to answer your questions or answer them accurately, ask for his name and badge number, and demand to speak with his supervisor at the DUI stop, and don’t move that vehicle until he complies. Keep the doors locked, the engine running. Keep it in park with your hands clearly visible on the wheel.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7kby0saK80]DUI checkpoint refusal - YouTube[/ame]

BTW, that's why you keep the window up as far as you reasonably can and keep your eyes front. Cops are merely looking for an avenue into your vehicle or get you out of it--a probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

"Hmm. I smell alcohol on your breath. I smell weed. Your eyes are glossy."

"I think you're lying, officer."

Don't even give them that opening. It's not illegal for a cop to use investigatory deception in order to gain evidence that might incriminate you. As you can see in the above, the driver held his ground and bluntly communicated that he understands the tactic of investigatory deception. The driver demonstrated his knowledge of the law, had a camera, and the cop relented.

Did I hear that officer at the end of the second one say, 'fucking kids'??????????? It was faint, but I think that is what he said.

 

[Sunshine]

M.D.....The first video in the above post was the one I was referring to. It was conducted by the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department in Tennessee. I agree, the deputy took the situation waaaaaaay to far. But my question still stands.....what is the effective alternative to reducing injuries and death caused by drunk drivers if DUI roadblocks are discontinued?

The problem with that was that he made it about WAY more than DUI. He made it about bombs, federal law, etc.

And FWIW, I went to law school in TN. They set up those checkpoints all the time, and stopping at them is voluntary. We had a case about a guy who pulled into one with a trunk full of marijuana, and he didn't even have to stop.

I do think they take it to far when they quiz you about where you are going. That IS none of their business. Also, if you are detained without reasonable suspicion, you can sue them.

 

[Sunshine]

These videos are disturbing. Beyond that, the police here roughed up my frail little 75 year old sister in law one night when she was on her way home from her Eastern Star Meeting.

But more, the police in Atlanta use traffic tickets to fund their pensions:

Police retirement fund, county programs benefit from traffic ticket fines | The Augusta Chronicle

That is a clear conflict of interest and were I to EVER get a ticket there I would try to get it thrown out just based on the fact that they have every reason to lie.

 

[Sunshine]

It occurs to me that I could really fuck with a smart ass cop. I could fake a heart attack and as bad as my heart is he couldn't prove I didn't have one!~ LOL

 

[bianco]

American cops need some new powers.
Cops in Sydney have no such trouble with smart-ass motorists.
If the cops stop you for a roadside alcohol and drug test, and you refuse to take them, they simply arrest you and charge you with high range drink driving...as is the law.

Easy.

btw, the random drug and alcohol test sites the cops set up...are compulsory to stop at if the cops step out with their STOP POLICE sign.

Don't stop, stop short and try to avoid them...the cops have patrol cars ready to chase you.
Don't stop then...it's likely bye bye for you, off to jail.

Wanna drug and alcohol yourself stoopid?
No worries...just don't drive...catch the bus, train, tram, or walk, catch a ride with family or friends instead.

 

[bianco]

It occurs to me that I could really fuck with a smart ass cop. I could fake a heart attack and as bad as my heart is he couldn't prove I didn't have one!~ LOL

"I fought the law, and the law won"


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtQj8O92eI [/ame]



Cops are only doing their job, and trying to rid the roads of drunk and drugged drivers, to keep us safe.
I always respect the uniform, if not always the person wearing it.

 

[Truthseeker420]

i just dont know how this would play out in nc.....

The places of real concern are all controlled by leftists politicians: New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, D.C., Detroit and parts of Los Angeles, for example.

I believe the cop that busted out the window was in Georgia.

 

[MikeK]

DUI checkpoint refusal, officer gets OWNED. - YouTube

How to Refuse a DUI Checkpoint - YouTube

The outstanding element in both videos is the politeness on the part of both the police officers and the subjects of the stops, who are confidently aware of the law. I've watched many of these DUI-checks and in several examples the driver has behaved like a real smart-ass and/or the cop behaved more like an ignorant goon.

Because the cops in these examples are polite and not assertive, and because there is a valid reason to perform these DUI checks, I would be inclined to cooperate with the cops rather than assert my rights. But if the cop who stopped me behaved as if he believed I am required to obey him I would give him as hard a time as I possibly could.

 

[bianco]

Shut down the whole freeway and test all the drivers...you might get a shock as to what you discover;

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfVkUQjDkow [/ame]




Drunk and drugged drivers kill innocent people.
They have no place on the roads.

 

[Politico]

Don't drink and drive. Problem solved.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

I've seen these types of videos before....one occurred in a neighboring county to mine and made it to youtube with hundreds of thousands of hits. It didn't end so well for the driver.

My question to the OP.....what is the alternative (to the DUI checkpoint) for removing alcohol-impaired drivers from the road? I've been stopped numerous times at DUI checkpoints, and have been treated with utmost courtesy (I'm not a consumer of alcohol).

I would encourage you to carefully consider the matter in light of the inherent threats and degradations of our Fourth- and Fifth-Amendment rights as a result of certain Court allowances relative to this and related circumstances. Read my posts, as few of the posters don't have a clue.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...he-rise-of-the-poilice-state.html#post8764001

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ng-his-fifth-amendment-right.html#post8746174

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ng-his-fifth-amendment-right.html#post8748018

Also, see my rebuttal of Jones' idiocy in the above.

I would argue that allowing suspicionless and warrantless stops are harassment that condition us to think and act like cattle in the presence of badges, condition cops to look upon us as servants and encourage police brutality. They are not worth the price that's paid in terms of our liberties in the name of security.


Cops are often much more aggressive in DUI stops. . . . The cops in the above saw the camera. This cop didn't. Get the drift?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-WMn_zHCVo]4th of July DUI Checkpoint - Drug Dogs, Searched without Consent, while Innocent - YouTube[/ame]

Two problems here: (1) the cop is a bully and obviously doesn’t know the law and (2) the driver fails to assert his rights in an unmistakably direct manner at the beginning.

The right way: “I don’t answer questions. Am I being detained or am I free to go?” Period. Don't ask questions or make statements that weaken your position.

Also, he let the cop bully him into the secondary. Don’t put up with that! The officer is required by law to truthfully answer all questions pertinent to your rights, and he may not lie. You run into a cop who refuses to answer your questions or answer them accurately, ask for his name and badge number, and demand to speak with his supervisor at the DUI stop, and don’t move that vehicle until he complies. Keep the doors locked, the engine running. Keep it in park with your hands clearly visible on the wheel.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7kby0saK80]DUI checkpoint refusal - YouTube[/ame]

BTW, that's why you keep the window up as far as you reasonably can and keep your eyes front. Cops are merely looking for an avenue into your vehicle or get you out of it--a probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

"Hmm. I smell alcohol on your breath. I smell weed. Your eyes are glossy."

"I think you're lying, officer."

Don't even give them that opening. It's not illegal for a cop to use investigatory deception in order to gain evidence that might incriminate you. As you can see in the above, the driver held his ground and bluntly communicated that he understands the tactic of investigatory deception. The driver demonstrated his knowledge of the law, had a camera, and the cop relented.

Did I hear that officer at the end of the second one say, 'fucking kids'??????????? It was faint, but I think that is what he said.

Can't make it out.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

i just dont know how this would play out in nc.....

The places of real concern are all controlled by leftists politicians: New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, D.C., Detroit and parts of Los Angeles, for example.

I believe the cop that busted out the window was in Georgia.

That was a traffic violation stop, wasn't it? The driver tried to illegally evade the stop and physically resist arrest. Different circumstances altogether.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

American cops need some new powers.
Cops in Sydney have no such trouble with smart-ass motorists.
If the cops stop you for a roadside alcohol and drug test, and you refuse to take them, they simply arrest you and charge you with high range drink driving...as is the law.

Easy.

btw, the random drug and alcohol test sites the cops set up...are compulsory to stop at if the cops step out with their STOP POLICE sign.

Don't stop, stop short and try to avoid them...the cops have patrol cars ready to chase you.
Don't stop then...it's likely bye bye for you, off to jail.

Wanna drug and alcohol yourself stoopid?
No worries...just don't drive...catch the bus, train, tram, or walk, catch a ride with family or friends instead.

American cops need more power?! Smartass motorists?!

So standing on and defending one's rights is the stuff of being a smartass? You're a menace to yourself and others. Only a fool surrenders his rights in a police encounter, but you wouldn't understand why.

Another bootlick sounds off (Mooooooo), a well-fed cow suggesting Americans be reduced to cattle like Australians.

BTW, the legal requirements of such stops were thoroughly spelled out in the above.

A smartass dog walker. . . .

 

[Sunshine]

American cops need some new powers.
Cops in Sydney have no such trouble with smart-ass motorists.
If the cops stop you for a roadside alcohol and drug test, and you refuse to take them, they simply arrest you and charge you with high range drink driving...as is the law.

Easy.

btw, the random drug and alcohol test sites the cops set up...are compulsory to stop at if the cops step out with their STOP POLICE sign.

Don't stop, stop short and try to avoid them...the cops have patrol cars ready to chase you.
Don't stop then...it's likely bye bye for you, off to jail.

Wanna drug and alcohol yourself stoopid?
No worries...just don't drive...catch the bus, train, tram, or walk, catch a ride with family or friends instead.

This is not a socialist hell hole. Yet.

 

[Sunshine]

American cops need some new powers.
Cops in Sydney have no such trouble with smart-ass motorists.
If the cops stop you for a roadside alcohol and drug test, and you refuse to take them, they simply arrest you and charge you with high range drink driving...as is the law.

Easy.

btw, the random drug and alcohol test sites the cops set up...are compulsory to stop at if the cops step out with their STOP POLICE sign.

Don't stop, stop short and try to avoid them...the cops have patrol cars ready to chase you.
Don't stop then...it's likely bye bye for you, off to jail.

Wanna drug and alcohol yourself stoopid?
No worries...just don't drive...catch the bus, train, tram, or walk, catch a ride with family or friends instead.

American cops need more power?! Smartass motorists?!

So standing on and defending one's rights is the stuff of being a smartass? You're a menace to yourself and others. Only a fool surrenders his rights in a police encounter, but you wouldn't understand why.

Another bootlick sounds off (Mooooooo), a well-fed cow suggesting Americans be reduced to cattle like Australians.

BTW, the legal requirements of such stops was thoroughly spelled out in the above.

A smartass dog walker. . . .

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDRHH_2owF8]Police State: Out of control Cops beat woman over Dog Poo - YouTube[/ame]

I think he is Noomi resurrected as a guy. He is equally clueless.

 

[MikeK]

I would encourage you to carefully consider the matter in light of the inherent threats and degradations of our Fourth- and Fifth-Amendment rights as a result of certain Court allowances relative to this and related circumstances. Read my posts, as few of the posters don't have a clue.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...he-rise-of-the-poilice-state.html#post8764001

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ng-his-fifth-amendment-right.html#post8746174

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ng-his-fifth-amendment-right.html#post8748018

Also, see my rebuttal of Jones' idiocy in the above.

I would argue that allowing suspicionless and warrantless stops are harassment that condition us to think and act like cattle in the presence of badges, condition cops to look upon us as servants and encourage police brutality. They are not worth the price that's paid in terms of our liberties in the name of security.


Cops are often much more aggressive in DUI stops. . . . The cops in the above saw the camera. This cop didn't. Get the drift?

4th of July DUI Checkpoint - Drug Dogs, Searched without Consent, while Innocent - YouTube

Two problems here: (1) the cop is a bully and obviously doesn’t know the law and (2) the driver fails to assert his rights in an unmistakably direct manner at the beginning.

The right way: “I don’t answer questions. Am I being detained or am I free to go?” Period. Don't ask questions or make statements that weaken your position.

Also, he let the cop bully him into the secondary. Don’t put up with that! The officer is required by law to truthfully answer all questions pertinent to your rights, and he may not lie. You run into a cop who refuses to answer your questions or answer them accurately, ask for his name and badge number, and demand to speak with his supervisor at the DUI stop, and don’t move that vehicle until he complies. Keep the doors locked, the engine running. Keep it in park with your hands clearly visible on the wheel.

DUI checkpoint refusal - YouTube

BTW, that's why you keep the window up as far as you reasonably can and keep your eyes front. Cops are merely looking for an avenue into your vehicle or get you out of it--a probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

"Hmm. I smell alcohol on your breath. I smell weed. Your eyes are glossy."

"I think you're lying, officer."

Don't even give them that opening. It's not illegal for a cop to use investigatory deception in order to gain evidence that might incriminate you. As you can see in the above, the driver held his ground and bluntly communicated that he understands the tactic of investigatory deception. The driver demonstrated his knowledge of the law, had a camera, and the cop relented.

Did I hear that officer at the end of the second one say, 'fucking kids'??????????? It was faint, but I think that is what he said.

Can't make it out.

I believe this refusal went so smoothly is the driver had the best possible witness -- a child.

 

[George Costanza]

DUI checkpoints are illegal in the sense that they are clearly violative of the 4th Amendment's prohibition against illegal search and seizure. The U.S. Supreme court conceded that they are violative of the 4th, but authoriezed them nonetheless as an exception justified by public safety. The "minor intrusion" on the traveler's journey along a public highway is outweighed by the benefit to society as a whole in curtailing drunk drivers.

I disagree with the U.S. Supremes.

I particularly liked one statement uttered several times by this driver: "Am I free to go or am I being detained?" Whenever a police officer confronts someone, whether it is at a DUI checkpoint, on the street or wherever, the officer will refer to it as a "consensual encounter," engage the person in general conversation and then ask more direct questions "do you have anything illegal on you?," etc.

As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", you should say, "Pretty good, officer. Am I being detained here, or am I free to go on my way?" If he says you are being detained, you are then entitled to a Miranda warning and are not obligated to answer any questions. (You're not obligated to answer any questions anyway, assuming there was no probable cause for the encounter.) If he says you are free to go - go.