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DUI checkpoints are illegal in the sense that they are clearly violative of the 4th Amendment's prohibition against illegal search and seizure. The U.S. Supreme court conceded that they are violative of the 4th, but authoriezed them nonetheless as an exception justified by public safety. The "minor intrusion" on the traveler's journey along a public highway is outweighed by the benefit to society as a whole in curtailing drunk drivers.
I disagree with the U.S. Supremes.
I particularly liked one statement uttered several times by this driver: "Am I free to go or am I being detained?" Whenever a police officer confronts someone, whether it is at a DUI checkpoint, on the street or wherever, the officer will refer to it as a "consensual encounter," engage the person in general conversation and then ask more direct questions "do you have anything illegal on you?," etc.
As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", you should say, "Pretty good, officer. Am I being detained here, or am I free to go on my way?" If he says you are being detained, you are then entitled to a Miranda warning and are not obligated to answer any questions. (You're not obligated to answer any questions anyway, assuming there was no probable cause for the encounter.) If he says you are free to go - go.
Before I left TN, they made it mandatory for you to give the officer your name if he asks.
American cops need some new powers.
Cops in Sydney have no such trouble with smart-ass motorists.
If the cops stop you for a roadside alcohol and drug test, and you refuse to take them, they simply arrest you and charge you with high range drink driving...as is the law.
Easy.
btw, the random drug and alcohol test sites the cops set up...are compulsory to stop at if the cops step out with their STOP POLICE sign.
Don't stop, stop short and try to avoid them...the cops have patrol cars ready to chase you.
Don't stop then...it's likely bye bye for you, off to jail.
Wanna drug and alcohol yourself stoopid?
No worries...just don't drive...catch the bus, train, tram, or walk, catch a ride with family or friends instead.
American cops need more power?! Smartass motorists?!
So standing on and defending one's rights is the stuff of being a smartass? You're a menace to yourself and others. Only a fool surrenders his rights in a police encounter, but you wouldn't understand why.
DUI checkpoints are illegal in the sense that they are clearly violative of the 4th Amendment's prohibition against illegal search and seizure. The U.S. Supreme court conceded that they are violative of the 4th, but authoriezed them nonetheless as an exception justified by public safety. The "minor intrusion" on the traveler's journey along a public highway is outweighed by the benefit to society as a whole in curtailing drunk drivers.
I disagree with the U.S. Supremes.
I particularly liked one statement uttered several times by this driver: "Am I free to go or am I being detained?" Whenever a police officer confronts someone, whether it is at a DUI checkpoint, on the street or wherever, the officer will refer to it as a "consensual encounter," engage the person in general conversation and then ask more direct questions "do you have anything illegal on you?," etc.
As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", you should say, "Pretty good, officer. Am I being detained here, or am I free to go on my way?" If he says you are being detained, you are then entitled to a Miranda warning and are not obligated to answer any questions. (You're not obligated to answer any questions anyway, assuming there was no probable cause for the encounter.) If he says you are free to go - go.
Sadly, this is much more typical of what happens when a driver attempts to assert his rights and defies the commands of the police. You have to remember, the vast majority of police officers are aggressive, antagonistic, authoritarian bullies, i.e., assholes. The last thing they want is to have their authority questioned.
Now, in San Diego, I ran into a real arrogant cop, young and arrogant, bad combination.
I was walking my dog in Balboa Park outside the designated area. I didn't know that at the time being an out-of-towner unfamiliar with local ordinances. Where I live there's no such thing as designated areas to walk one's dog, though there are enclosed designated areas to let one's dog off the leash in parks.
Anyway, dude's really aggressive about it. "Hey, dumbass, what do you think you're doing?"
I turn around. A badge is walking toward me. I look at the leash, my dog and back at him.
"Get your dog out of here now."
I start to walk away toward my car. I surmise what the problem must be. Why talk about it? He told me to leave. What do I care? The dog already peed.
"Where the hell you going?"
I point at my car, the only one around at that end of the lot.
He's walking toward me again. I can tell he's pissed because I won't speak.
"What's your name?"
"Am I being detained or Am I free to go?"
Now he's really pissed.
"Give me your ID."
"Why?"
[My wife has the camera out now and is filming from behind the windshield. He doesn't see that. Never go anywhere without it!]
"Okay, smartass, I was going to let you go, now I'm going to cite you."
"Your name and badge number will be on the citation?" [I'm audio recording on my phone, by the way, a handy little feature.]
Don't recall what he said to that, but it wasn't nice. More verbal abuse.
"You're out of state? This is your real name and current address?"
"That's right."
[Now he notices my wife and the camera.]
"Tell her to turn that off."
"Not a chance in hell, and I'm audio recording. There's no wiretap law in California prohibiting it. You have no more expectation of privacy in public than I do."
That's when his tone changes. No citation after all. I wouldn't have paid it anyway, just sent a copy of the recordings to the respective courthouse . . . from another state.
True story.
I imagine this clown has gotten a lot of complaints, and that's the main reason he backed off.
As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", I say "well thank you" in my best polite voice[I don't say 'officer' as I don't want to give the impression of being a doormat].
Then I let him do the asking of questions, after all it's he who has stopped me for some reason.
Normally he would then ask me to see my drivers licence..."sure" I say and hand it to him.
Then I would obey any instructions he [or she] gave me, submit to a drug or alcohol test or the like.
If stopped for a traffic violation, I would listen to what the cop had to say, plead innocence and see what happened.
Sadly, this is much more typical of what happens when a driver attempts to assert his rights and defies the commands of the police. You have to remember, the vast majority of police officers are aggressive, antagonistic, authoritarian bullies, i.e., assholes. The last thing they want is to have their authority questioned.
That's not the impression I have formed, having watched 'COPS' program on my tv nearly every day for many years.
And from watching the 'JAIL' program nearly every day.
And watching the Ci channel.
I've found American cops, male and female, to be very reasonable, and well-mannered, treating motorists and other people with respect.
However, they don't like being lied to, treated with contempt, and/or like fools.
They just stop trying to do the best for you then.
American cops need some new powers.
Cops in Sydney have no such trouble with smart-ass motorists.
If the cops stop you for a roadside alcohol and drug test, and you refuse to take them, they simply arrest you and charge you with high range drink driving...as is the law.
Easy.
btw, the random drug and alcohol test sites the cops set up...are compulsory to stop at if the cops step out with their STOP POLICE sign.
Don't stop, stop short and try to avoid them...the cops have patrol cars ready to chase you.
Don't stop then...it's likely bye bye for you, off to jail.
Wanna drug and alcohol yourself stoopid?
No worries...just don't drive...catch the bus, train, tram, or walk, catch a ride with family or friends instead.
American cops need more power?! Smartass motorists?!
So standing on and defending one's rights is the stuff of being a smartass? You're a menace to yourself and others. Only a fool surrenders his rights in a police encounter, but you wouldn't understand why.
When the DUI checkpoints are legal;
The U.S. Supreme court conceded that they are violative of the 4th, but authoriezed them nonetheless as an exception justified by public safety.
A wise man surrenders to them even if he doesn't believe in them...as it's the law.
Anyway, all people believing that drunk and drugged drivers are a menace to society and should not be on the roads, should happily submit to a drug and alcohol test at a DUI checkpoint.
American cops should be able to stop any motorist at any time [only with a camera rolling] and have them take a drug and alcohol test...in the interests of reducing the 43,000 annual death toll on America's roads.
If the DUI checkpoints are legal, decreed so by the Supreme Court, then you have no rights to stand on and defend.
As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", I say "well thank you" in my best polite voice[I don't say 'officer' as I don't want to give the impression of being a doormat].
Then I let him do the asking of questions, after all it's he who has stopped me for some reason.
Normally he would then ask me to see my drivers licence..."sure" I say and hand it to him.
Then I would obey any instructions he [or she] gave me, submit to a drug or alcohol test or the like.
If stopped for a traffic violation, I would listen to what the cop had to say, plead innocence and see what happened.
You don't live here. Your advice is worthless, noomi.
Sadly, this is much more typical of what happens when a driver attempts to assert his rights and defies the commands of the police. You have to remember, the vast majority of police officers are aggressive, antagonistic, authoritarian bullies, i.e., assholes. The last thing they want is to have their authority questioned.
That's not the impression I have formed, having watched 'COPS' program on my tv nearly every day for many years.
And from watching the 'JAIL' program nearly every day.
And watching the Ci channel.
I've found American cops, male and female, to be very reasonable, and well-mannered, treating motorists and other people with respect.
However, they don't like being lied to, treated with contempt, and/or like fools.
They just stop trying to do the best for you then.
As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", I say "well thank you" in my best polite voice[I don't say 'officer' as I don't want to give the impression of being a doormat].
Then I let him do the asking of questions, after all it's he who has stopped me for some reason.
Normally he would then ask me to see my drivers licence..."sure" I say and hand it to him.
Then I would obey any instructions he [or she] gave me, submit to a drug or alcohol test or the like.
If stopped for a traffic violation, I would listen to what the cop had to say, plead innocence and see what happened.
American cops need more power?! Smartass motorists?!
So standing on and defending one's rights is the stuff of being a smartass? You're a menace to yourself and others. Only a fool surrenders his rights in a police encounter, but you wouldn't understand why.
When the DUI checkpoints are legal;
The U.S. Supreme court conceded that they are violative of the 4th, but authoriezed them nonetheless as an exception justified by public safety.
A wise man surrenders to them even if he doesn't believe in them...as it's the law.
Anyway, all people believing that drunk and drugged drivers are a menace to society and should not be on the roads, should happily submit to a drug and alcohol test at a DUI checkpoint.
American cops should be able to stop any motorist at any time [only with a camera rolling] and have them take a drug and alcohol test...in the interests of reducing the 43,000 annual death toll on America's roads.
If the DUI checkpoints are legal, decreed so by the Supreme Court, then you have no rights to stand on and defend.
They are per se violations of the Fourth due to the Court's legal mumbo jumbo. The wise man stops, alright, because that's the law. No one argued otherwise. But only fools surrender anything else; as I have shown beyond all doubt, there's plenty by way of rights to stand on and defend.
I don't drink and drive. I don't even drink. I don't use any recreational substance at all. I don't drive while impaired, either by lack of sleep or legal prescriptions when needed. I am a law-abiding citizen and a responsible driver.
I don't feel the least bit obliged to surrender my rights and cooperate with suspicionless or warrantless stops beyond stopping my vehicle. Period. And if the Court pushes this line any farther, lots of Americans are going to have a real problem with that too. We aren't pussy bootlicks. I won't voluntarily take any test. I won't voluntarily submit to anything. And no-refusal blood tests and breathalyzers are an abomination piled atop an abomination by fools and tyrants slap out of their minds. I'm not willingly handing my DNA over to anyone!
Sadly, this is much more typical of what happens when a driver attempts to assert his rights and defies the commands of the police. You have to remember, the vast majority of police officers are aggressive, antagonistic, authoritarian bullies, i.e., assholes. The last thing they want is to have their authority questioned.
That's not the impression I have formed, having watched 'COPS' program on my tv nearly every day for many years.
And from watching the 'JAIL' program nearly every day.
And watching the Ci channel.
I've found American cops, male and female, to be very reasonable, and well-mannered, treating motorists and other people with respect.
However, they don't like being lied to, treated with contempt, and/or like fools.
They just stop trying to do the best for you then.
Sadly, this is much more typical of what happens when a driver attempts to assert his rights and defies the commands of the police. You have to remember, the vast majority of police officers are aggressive, antagonistic, authoritarian bullies, i.e., assholes. The last thing they want is to have their authority questioned.
That's not the impression I have formed, having watched 'COPS' program on my tv nearly every day for many years.
And from watching the 'JAIL' program nearly every day.
And watching the Ci channel.
I've found American cops, male and female, to be very reasonable, and well-mannered, treating motorists and other people with respect.
However, they don't like being lied to, treated with contempt, and/or like fools.
They just stop trying to do the best for you then.
Here's the deal - your observations are probably correct. But that doesn't tell the whole story. Cops are nice and polite - to nice and polite, middle class people, who don't give them a hard time or question their authority. Those same cops, dealing with a Hispanic or black suspect late at night, are not the same people at all. They should be - but they aren't.
Cops are polite to those they know can give mess them up - credible, middle class people who will be believed if they file a formal complaint. The "scumbags" (as they like to call them) they know would never be believed, so they push them around.
If you are one of thsoe people who, upon watching police pounding the hell out of a driver at the end of a chase, says: "guy got what he deserved - shouldn't run from the police," then there is little I can say. I would hope you are not one of those types of people.
Cops wear several faces. Us "good people" rarely see an fact other than the polite one. Believe me, they wear other faces.
As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", I say "well thank you" in my best polite voice[I don't say 'officer' as I don't want to give the impression of being a doormat].
Then I let him do the asking of questions, after all it's he who has stopped me for some reason.
Normally he would then ask me to see my drivers licence..."sure" I say and hand it to him.
Then I would obey any instructions he [or she] gave me, submit to a drug or alcohol test or the like.
If stopped for a traffic violation, I would listen to what the cop had to say, plead innocence and see what happened.
Oh boy - good people have nothing to fear from being searched by the police. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Is that what I'm hearing here?
B.S. - good people should object strongly to police overstepping their bounds. What would you do if a cop showed up at your front door and wanted to search your house? Let him in because you have done nothing wrong and you know he is not going to find anything?
God, I hope not.
As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", I say "well thank you" in my best polite voice[I don't say 'officer' as I don't want to give the impression of being a doormat].
Then I let him do the asking of questions, after all it's he who has stopped me for some reason.
Normally he would then ask me to see my drivers licence..."sure" I say and hand it to him.
Then I would obey any instructions he [or she] gave me, submit to a drug or alcohol test or the like.
If stopped for a traffic violation, I would listen to what the cop had to say, plead innocence and see what happened.
Oh boy - good people have nothing to fear from being searched by the police. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Is that what I'm hearing here?
B.S. - good people should object strongly to police overstepping their bounds. What would you do if a cop showed up at your front door and wanted to search your house? Let him in because you have done nothing wrong and you know he is not going to find anything?
God, I hope not.
DUI stop...people in this forum and elsewhere in America seem to wanna start WW3 over being asked nicely by the police to take a drug and alcohol test....which is the law anyway.
Cops arrive at my door and want to search my home? ...now that's a different matter.
They'd only be doing that in a criminal matter.
DUI stop...criminal matter...two totally different things.
I'd be wanting to see a search warrant, I be staying in my home and watching them as best I could...wouldn't want anyone planting anything.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
In the United States, a "Terry stop" is a brief detention of a person by police[1] on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest.
The name derives from Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968),[2] in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that police may briefly detain a person whom they reasonably suspect is involved in criminal activity;[3] the Court also held that police may do a limited search of the suspects outer garments for weapons if they have a reasonable and articulable suspicion that the person detained may be armed and dangerous.[4] When a search for weapons is authorized, the procedure is known as a stop and frisk.
A Nashville judge this afternoon threw out the evidence collected by a Metro police officer after he stopped Tennessee Titans quarterback Steve McNair and charged him with DUI last year.
Criminal Court Judge Cheryl Blackburn ruled that a Metro police officer did not have enough ''reasonable suspicion'' to stop McNair around midnight on May 22 as he drove down Broadway in downtown Nashville.
Therefore, all the evidence obtained after the stop, including the results of a Breathalyzer test and a gun cannot be admitted into court. The Titans star had registered .18%, which was almost twice the .10 legal limit at the time. It's since been reduced to .08%.
''Since this stop is considered illegal, we can't even get to the other stuff,'' said Davidson County Assistant District Attorney Dumaka Shabazz.
