This is how you deal with a DUI checkpoint

[bianco]

Sadly, this is much more typical of what happens when a driver attempts to assert his rights and defies the commands of the police. You have to remember, the vast majority of police officers are aggressive, antagonistic, authoritarian bullies, i.e., assholes. The last thing they want is to have their authority questioned.

That's not the impression I have formed, having watched 'COPS' program on my tv nearly every day for many years.
And from watching the 'JAIL' program nearly every day.
And watching the Ci channel.

I've found American cops, male and female, to be very reasonable, and well-mannered, treating motorists and other people with respect.
However, they don't like being lied to, treated with contempt, and/or like fools.
They just stop trying to do the best for you then.

No one's suggesting that one should lie to them. That's a crime, by the way. Nor should one treat them with contempt or like fools. Like anyone else, they deserve as much respect as they give, and they do have a tough job to do. Comparatively few cops are fools, really, certainly detectives aren't. That's why, beyond the principle of defending one's rights, you keep your mouth shut as much as possible. You will lose. No cop is out to help you in any investigative encounter. His job is to incriminate you or get you to incriminate yourself. You're making baby talk.

And, finally, any cop who doesn't obey the law, doesn't stay within the boundaries of his authority relative to the imperatives of our rights, is an armed punk with a badge, a menace to society.

Sometimes they knock on your door to ask you questions about a murder that happened in the street the night before...ask you if you saw or heard anything.
If they seemed to be hinting that I might be connected to it in some way...and they mentioned the magic word...'alibi', my mouth would be shut watertight and my lawyer phoned.

The uniformed cops in patrol cars on COPS try to do the best for people who are honest and reasonable with them from the outset...in traffic stops and other situations.
Give them lifestyle advice a lot of the time...there are some sad cases.
Even sadder cases are seen brought into the Portland and Vegas jails.

 

[Sunshine]

That's not the impression I have formed, having watched 'COPS' program on my tv nearly every day for many years.
And from watching the 'JAIL' program nearly every day.
And watching the Ci channel.

I've found American cops, male and female, to be very reasonable, and well-mannered, treating motorists and other people with respect.
However, they don't like being lied to, treated with contempt, and/or like fools.
They just stop trying to do the best for you then.

No one's suggesting that one should lie to them. That's a crime, by the way. Nor should one treat them with contempt or like fools. Like anyone else, they deserve as much respect as they give, and they do have a tough job to do. Comparatively few cops are fools, really, certainly detectives aren't. That's why, beyond the principle of defending one's rights, you keep your mouth shut as much as possible. You will lose. No cop is out to help you in any investigative encounter. His job is to incriminate you or get you to incriminate yourself. You're making baby talk.

And, finally, any cop who doesn't obey the law, doesn't stay within the boundaries of his authority relative to the imperatives of our rights, is an armed punk with a badge, a menace to society.

Sometimes they knock on your door to ask you questions about a murder that happened in the street the night before...ask you if you saw or heard anything.
If they seemed to be hinting that I might be connected to it in some way...and they mentioned the magic word...'alibi', my mouth would be shut watertight and my lawyer phoned.

The uniformed cops in patrol cars on COPS try to do the best for people who are honest and reasonable with them from the outset...in traffic stops and other situations.
Give them lifestyle advice a lot of the time...there are some sad cases.
Even sadder cases are seen brought into the Portland and Vegas jails.

No one has EVER knocked on my door about a murder.

 

[bianco]

Under the NSW RBT system the drunk TN footballer would've immediately been removed from the roads.
He would've been given an alcohol test, made talk into or blow into the machine....he would've failed, and been arrested.
No chance of killing anyone on the roads that day.

Gotta love RBT!

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Now, in San Diego, I ran into a real arrogant cop, young and arrogant, bad combination.

I was walking my dog in Balboa Park outside the designated area. I didn't know that at the time being an out-of-towner unfamiliar with local ordinances. Where I live there's no such thing as designated areas to walk one's dog, though there are enclosed designated areas to let one's dog off the leash in parks.

Anyway, dude's really aggressive about it. "Hey, dumbass, what do you think you're doing?"

I turn around. A badge is walking toward me. I look at the leash, my dog and back at him.

"Get your dog out of here now."

I start to walk away toward my car. I surmise what the problem must be. Why talk about it? He told me to leave. What do I care? The dog already peed.

"Where the hell you going?"

I point at my car, the only one around at that end of the lot.

He's walking toward me again. I can tell he's pissed because I won't speak.

"What's your name?"

"Am I being detained or Am I free to go?"

Now he's really pissed.

"Give me your ID."

"Why?"

[My wife has the camera out now and is filming from behind the windshield. He doesn't see that. Never go anywhere without it!]

"Okay, smartass, I was going to let you go, now I'm going to cite you."

"Your name and badge number will be on the citation?" [I'm audio recording on my phone, by the way, a handy little feature.]

Don't recall what he said to that, but it wasn't nice. More verbal abuse.

"You're out of state? This is your real name and current address?"

"That's right."

[Now he notices my wife and the camera.]

"Tell her to turn that off."

"Not a chance in hell, and I'm audio recording. There's no wiretap law in California prohibiting it. You have no more expectation of privacy in public than I do."

That's when his tone changes. No citation after all. I wouldn't have paid it anyway, just sent a copy of the recordings to the respective courthouse . . . from another state.

True story.

I imagine this clown has gotten a lot of complaints, and that's the main reason he backed off.

One bad apple does not a rotten barrel make.
Ah yes, the language of the young...they call people 'dumbass', 'ape', 'idiot', and worse just in normal conversation.

The cop should not have been speaking to you like that.
He told you to get your dog out of there, so you did.

Best to speak to the cops, they don't like being given the silent treatment...best to save that for the workplace, where it usually works wonders.

I would've volunteered that I was from out of state, shown him my ID at the same time, told him I was obeying his instruction to leave, and apologised for unknowingly having my dog in the wrong place.
If he still gave me a citation I would not have paid it either, and written a letter of complaint about him when I got back home.
I never go anywhere without my non-video camera.

I must investigate that audio recording phone feature.

Ah, see, you don't know the law. I didn't willingly volunteer anything. I already told you guys to never, ever give your ID unless you have to. Never, ever give your name unless you have to. Don't give up anything about yourself, unless you have to.

The cop had my ID because he had probable cause to cite me, a clear violation of the law. My ignorance of the law was no excuse. When probable cause is established, moreover, when you are informed that you have violated the law, the officer has the option to warn you, cite you or arrest you, depending on the nature of the offense.

Obviously, he intended to cite me until he realized that there was a digital record of his embarrassingly unprofessional, vulgar and abusive behavior toward an undeniably cool, calm and collected citizen. Then he weighed the consequences of the exposure of his stupid behavior against the satisfaction of putting this "smartass" in his place.

BTW, the ID I gave him was not my driver's license. I carry both, a standard state-issued ID and a driver's license. The latter divulges more information. Notwithstanding, the former has my address on it, which are the two things an officer requires when he cites you, i.e., name and address. I didn't speak another word, just handed him the ID in response to a lawful command.

He noted that it was not my driver's license and asked for that. I refused as the offense did not pertain to any traffic violation. He didn't press it.

BTW, I stated my refusal as follows: "I don't consent to any searches or seizures of my person or my property beyond that which is required by law in this circumstance."

Between that and the recordings, he realized he had screwed up badly.

Guys like that don't belong on the force. They're dangerously unfit. Law enforcement is more than just a job, it's a calling. I few of my best friends are cops, and they are just as contemptuous of clowns like this one as I am.
_____________________________________

BTW, this thinking of yours--what cops do and don't like concerning what I say or don't say, for example--is just more of the same genuflecting ass-kissing that encourages cops to treat us as if they were our lords and masters. Screw that. Cops don't like the silent treatment, especially when they're talking to me as if I were a dog. What the?! Bottom line: the cop's authority ends where my rights begin. The cop who doesn’t get that needs a psychiatrist or boot up his ass. End of discussion.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Just in passing - do any of you think for one second that DUI checkpoints are about drunk drivers? They are, of course, but they are also about so much more. Cops discover all kinds of stuff they never would have found out about but for the DUI "checkpoint."

Unlicensed drivers. If the driver looks like he might be a druggie, "you have anything illegal in the car? Mind if we take a look?" Guns on back seats or under front seats. Drugs in plain sight. Several lap top computers in plain sight on the back seat. The list is endless.

And what do you think a cop is going to do if he sees something illegal in the car at a checkpoint? "I see you have a gun sticking out from under the front seat there but, golly darn, since this is just a DUI checkpoint, I can't ask you anything about that. Y'all be careful with that thing now, heah?"

Right.

Indeed, thanks, George. . . .



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCe6nQUX5c]The WRONG Way to Handle a Police Stop - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk]The RIGHT Way to Handle a Police Stop - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bianco]

No one's suggesting that one should lie to them. That's a crime, by the way. Nor should one treat them with contempt or like fools. Like anyone else, they deserve as much respect as they give, and they do have a tough job to do. Comparatively few cops are fools, really, certainly detectives aren't. That's why, beyond the principle of defending one's rights, you keep your mouth shut as much as possible. You will lose. No cop is out to help you in any investigative encounter. His job is to incriminate you or get you to incriminate yourself. You're making baby talk.

And, finally, any cop who doesn't obey the law, doesn't stay within the boundaries of his authority relative to the imperatives of our rights, is an armed punk with a badge, a menace to society.

Sometimes they knock on your door to ask you questions about a murder that happened in the street the night before...ask you if you saw or heard anything.
If they seemed to be hinting that I might be connected to it in some way...and they mentioned the magic word...'alibi', my mouth would be shut watertight and my lawyer phoned.

The uniformed cops in patrol cars on COPS try to do the best for people who are honest and reasonable with them from the outset...in traffic stops and other situations.
Give them lifestyle advice a lot of the time...there are some sad cases.
Even sadder cases are seen brought into the Portland and Vegas jails.

No one has EVER knocked on my door about a murder.

Mine either.
I live in a 'good area'.
But out in the SW suburbs, in Middle East/multicultural central, there are murders, shootings and stabbings etc every other day.
They're coming closer to my place as the population and immigration increase....so you never know.
Information from the public is usually vital in solving many crimes.

Man 'stabbed to death' near shops in Sydney's west

video

A real-estate agent whose wife is expecting their first child has been stabbed to death outside his real-estate business in Sydney's west.

Police said another man had been charged over the attack on 48-year-old Vissa Esan in Pendle Hill about 7.45am on Thursday.

Mr Esan, who owned Aussie Unity Real Estate on Pendle Way, arrived at work early on Thursday morning and was believed to be putting out the garbage in an alley that runs alongside his office when he was attacked.

Mr Esan, a Sri Lankan-born businessmen, migrated to Australia about 20 years ago and lived in Kellyville with his pregnant wife.
Police said officers patrolling in Pendle Hill arrested a 34-year-old man on Hallmark Street in Pendle Hill a short time after the stabbing.

He was taken to Merrylands police station and charged with murder on Thursday evening.
He was refused bail and will appear in Fairfield Local Court on Friday.

Acting Superintendent Ian Casha said nobody else was being sought over the attack, and would not comment on speculation the pair were business rivals.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Don't drink and drive. Problem solved.

Nobody who isn't drunk ever gets pulled over at DUI checkpoints?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Before I left TN, they made it mandatory for you to give the officer your name if he asks.

That's generally the law for walkers as well. You don't have to display an ID or even carry one, but you do have to identify yourself to an officer when asked, and be truthful about it.

Generally, you only have to answer if he can articulate a reason for asking. There are some freedom hating states that require you to respond anyway, but they are still the exception.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

4th of July DUI Checkpoint - Drug Dogs, Searched without Consent, while Innocent - YouTube

Sadly, this is much more typical of what happens when a driver attempts to assert his rights and defies the commands of the police. You have to remember, the vast majority of police officers are aggressive, antagonistic, authoritarian bullies, i.e., assholes. The last thing they want is to have their authority questioned.

That's not the impression I have formed, having watched 'COPS' program on my tv nearly every day for many years.
And from watching the 'JAIL' program nearly every day.
And watching the Ci channel.

I've found American cops, male and female, to be very reasonable, and well-mannered, treating motorists and other people with respect.
However, they don't like being lied to, treated with contempt, and/or like fools.
They just stop trying to do the best for you then.

George is an actual lawyer who represents real live criminals in court. Cops is a show where the cops know, in advance, that they are being filmed, and the producers go out of their way to make the cops look good. They still get the assholes on tape.

http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4160001.html

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Now, in San Diego, I ran into a real arrogant cop, young and arrogant, bad combination.

I was walking my dog in Balboa Park outside the designated area. I didn't know that at the time being an out-of-towner unfamiliar with local ordinances. Where I live there's no such thing as designated areas to walk one's dog, though there are enclosed designated areas to let one's dog off the leash in parks.

Anyway, dude's really aggressive about it. "Hey, dumbass, what do you think you're doing?"

I turn around. A badge is walking toward me. I look at the leash, my dog and back at him.

"Get your dog out of here now."

I start to walk away toward my car. I surmise what the problem must be. Why talk about it? He told me to leave. What do I care? The dog already peed.

"Where the hell you going?"

I point at my car, the only one around at that end of the lot.

He's walking toward me again. I can tell he's pissed because I won't speak.

"What's your name?"

"Am I being detained or Am I free to go?"

Now he's really pissed.

"Give me your ID."

"Why?"

[My wife has the camera out now and is filming from behind the windshield. He doesn't see that. Never go anywhere without it!]

"Okay, smartass, I was going to let you go, now I'm going to cite you."

"Your name and badge number will be on the citation?" [I'm audio recording on my phone, by the way, a handy little feature.]

Don't recall what he said to that, but it wasn't nice. More verbal abuse.

"You're out of state? This is your real name and current address?"

"That's right."

[Now he notices my wife and the camera.]

"Tell her to turn that off."

"Not a chance in hell, and I'm audio recording. There's no wiretap law in California prohibiting it. You have no more expectation of privacy in public than I do."

That's when his tone changes. No citation after all. I wouldn't have paid it anyway, just sent a copy of the recordings to the respective courthouse . . . from another state.

True story.

I imagine this clown has gotten a lot of complaints, and that's the main reason he backed off.

One bad apple does not a rotten barrel make.
Ah yes, the language of the young...they call people 'dumbass', 'ape', 'idiot', and worse just in normal conversation.

The cop should not have been speaking to you like that.
He told you to get your dog out of there, so you did.

Best to speak to the cops, they don't like being given the silent treatment...best to save that for the workplace, where it usually works wonders.

I would've volunteered that I was from out of state, shown him my ID at the same time, told him I was obeying his instruction to leave, and apologised for unknowingly having my dog in the wrong place.
If he still gave me a citation I would not have paid it either, and written a letter of complaint about him when I got back home.
I never go anywhere without my non-video camera.

I must investigate that audio recording phone feature.

You don't know much about apples, do you?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", I say "well thank you" in my best polite voice[I don't say 'officer' as I don't want to give the impression of being a doormat].
Then I let him do the asking of questions, after all it's he who has stopped me for some reason.
Normally he would then ask me to see my drivers licence..."sure" I say and hand it to him.
Then I would obey any instructions he [or she] gave me, submit to a drug or alcohol test or the like.

If stopped for a traffic violation, I would listen to what the cop had to say, plead innocence and see what happened.

Oh boy - good people have nothing to fear from being searched by the police. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Is that what I'm hearing here?

B.S. - good people should object strongly to police overstepping their bounds. What would you do if a cop showed up at your front door and wanted to search your house? Let him in because you have done nothing wrong and you know he is not going to find anything?

God, I hope not.

DUI stop...people in this forum and elsewhere in America seem to wanna start WW3 over being asked nicely by the police to take a drug and alcohol test....which is the law anyway.

Cops arrive at my door and want to search my home? ...now that's a different matter.
They'd only be doing that in a criminal matter.
DUI stop...criminal matter...two totally different things.
I'd be wanting to see a search warrant, I be staying in my home and watching them as best I could...wouldn't want anyone planting anything.

The law in this country is they need my permission, or a warrant.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Under the NSW RBT system the drunk TN footballer would've immediately been removed from the roads.
He would've been given an alcohol test, made talk into or blow into the machine....he would've failed, and been arrested.
No chance of killing anyone on the roads that day.

Gotta love RBT!

In Texas they arrest you for not failing the test.

Texas Police Defend DUI Arrest of Black Man Who Passed Sobriety Test - The Root

That is why I prefer to make them work for it.

 

[bianco]

If you're talking about phones...I don't have Apple anythings.
I mostly just use my Android phone for making calls and texting.

Thinking about it further, in my non-US state, recording people by video or sound without their knowledge is illegal.

 

[bianco]

Now, in San Diego, I ran into a real arrogant cop, young and arrogant, bad combination.

I was walking my dog in Balboa Park outside the designated area. I didn't know that at the time being an out-of-towner unfamiliar with local ordinances. Where I live there's no such thing as designated areas to walk one's dog, though there are enclosed designated areas to let one's dog off the leash in parks.

Anyway, dude's really aggressive about it. "Hey, dumbass, what do you think you're doing?"

I turn around. A badge is walking toward me. I look at the leash, my dog and back at him.

"Get your dog out of here now."

I start to walk away toward my car. I surmise what the problem must be. Why talk about it? He told me to leave. What do I care? The dog already peed.

"Where the hell you going?"

I point at my car, the only one around at that end of the lot.

He's walking toward me again. I can tell he's pissed because I won't speak.

"What's your name?"

"Am I being detained or Am I free to go?"

Now he's really pissed.

"Give me your ID."

"Why?"

[My wife has the camera out now and is filming from behind the windshield. He doesn't see that. Never go anywhere without it!]

"Okay, smartass, I was going to let you go, now I'm going to cite you."

"Your name and badge number will be on the citation?" [I'm audio recording on my phone, by the way, a handy little feature.]

Don't recall what he said to that, but it wasn't nice. More verbal abuse.

"You're out of state? This is your real name and current address?"

"That's right."

[Now he notices my wife and the camera.]

"Tell her to turn that off."

"Not a chance in hell, and I'm audio recording. There's no wiretap law in California prohibiting it. You have no more expectation of privacy in public than I do."

That's when his tone changes. No citation after all. I wouldn't have paid it anyway, just sent a copy of the recordings to the respective courthouse . . . from another state.

True story.

I imagine this clown has gotten a lot of complaints, and that's the main reason he backed off.

One bad apple does not a rotten barrel make.
Ah yes, the language of the young...they call people 'dumbass', 'ape', 'idiot', and worse just in normal conversation.

The cop should not have been speaking to you like that.
He told you to get your dog out of there, so you did.

Best to speak to the cops, they don't like being given the silent treatment...best to save that for the workplace, where it usually works wonders.

I would've volunteered that I was from out of state, shown him my ID at the same time, told him I was obeying his instruction to leave, and apologised for unknowingly having my dog in the wrong place.
If he still gave me a citation I would not have paid it either, and written a letter of complaint about him when I got back home.
I never go anywhere without my non-video camera.

I must investigate that audio recording phone feature.

You don't know much about apples, do you?

I know enough about them to know that what I said is true.
Most of them are not bad...or even half bad.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

One bad apple does not a rotten barrel make.
Ah yes, the language of the young...they call people 'dumbass', 'ape', 'idiot', and worse just in normal conversation.

The cop should not have been speaking to you like that.
He told you to get your dog out of there, so you did.

Best to speak to the cops, they don't like being given the silent treatment...best to save that for the workplace, where it usually works wonders.

I would've volunteered that I was from out of state, shown him my ID at the same time, told him I was obeying his instruction to leave, and apologised for unknowingly having my dog in the wrong place.
If he still gave me a citation I would not have paid it either, and written a letter of complaint about him when I got back home.
I never go anywhere without my non-video camera.

I must investigate that audio recording phone feature.

You don't know much about apples, do you?

I know enough about them to know that what I said is true.
Most of them are not bad...or even half bad.

Unless you leave the bad apple in the barrel, which is exactly what police do.

 

[MikeK]

The problem with DUI stops, even though they do serve an important and constructive purpose, is they also serve as an incremental component in the emerging American police state -- i.e., the boiling frog principle. Briefly stated, these intrusive checkpoints have the effect of subliminally conditioning the public to the experience of being stopped and questioned.

By itself the DUI checkpoint is nothing but a means of reducing drunk driving statistics. But when viewed in conjunction with the number of SWAT raids taking place in America every day (around 150 and rising), the fact that militarization of American police agencies has blurred the distinction between cops and occupying soldiers, along with the covert introduction of a system of surreptitious surveillance surpassing anything the Soviet KGB had in place, a clear impression is formed that something socially unhealthy is taking place in our Country. It appears that something politically dangerous is being quietly assembled one piece at a time.

 

[Jarlaxle]

American cops need some new powers.
Cops in Sydney have no such trouble with smart-ass motorists.
If the cops stop you for a roadside alcohol and drug test, and you refuse to take them, they simply arrest you and charge you with high range drink driving...as is the law.

Easy.

btw, the random drug and alcohol test sites the cops set up...are compulsory to stop at if the cops step out with their STOP POLICE sign.

Don't stop, stop short and try to avoid them...the cops have patrol cars ready to chase you.
Don't stop then...it's likely bye bye for you, off to jail.

Wanna drug and alcohol yourself stoopid?
No worries...just don't drive...catch the bus, train, tram, or walk, catch a ride with family or friends instead.

Yes, yes...we KNOW that Australia is degenerating into a police state! In the United States, we have things called Constitutional rights! I understand that the very THOUGHT of freedom terrifies you, but that's YOUR problem! Now tug that forelock, boy!

 

[Jarlaxle]

DUI checkpoints are illegal in the sense that they are clearly violative of the 4th Amendment's prohibition against illegal search and seizure. The U.S. Supreme court conceded that they are violative of the 4th, but authoriezed them nonetheless as an exception justified by public safety. The "minor intrusion" on the traveler's journey along a public highway is outweighed by the benefit to society as a whole in curtailing drunk drivers.

I disagree with the U.S. Supremes.

I particularly liked one statement uttered several times by this driver: "Am I free to go or am I being detained?" Whenever a police officer confronts someone, whether it is at a DUI checkpoint, on the street or wherever, the officer will refer to it as a "consensual encounter," engage the person in general conversation and then ask more direct questions "do you have anything illegal on you?," etc.

As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", you should say, "Pretty good, officer. Am I being detained here, or am I free to go on my way?" If he says you are being detained, you are then entitled to a Miranda warning and are not obligated to answer any questions. (You're not obligated to answer any questions anyway, assuming there was no probable cause for the encounter.) If he says you are free to go - go.

What's really quite amazing is the response of some who don't care that checkpoints of any kind within the interior boundaries of the United States are in fact, as acknowledge by the Court, per se violations of the Fourth. Worse, is their attitude toward those who will not tolerate being harassed by questions.

BTW, that's my standard answer.

I've only been through one DUI checkpoint. The officer knew the law and responded professionally when I told him that I don't answer questions put to me by police officers.

"Why not?"

"Like I said, officer, I don't answer questions."

"I'm just trying to ensure your safety and that of the public." [I must say, that was a very smooth comeback.]

"I'm just wondering if I'm being detained or if I'm free to go."

To which he smiled and said, "You're free to go."
________________________________________

Now, in San Diego, I ran into a real arrogant cop, young and arrogant, bad combination.

I was walking my dog in Balboa Park outside the designated area. I didn't know that at the time being an out-of-towner unfamiliar with local ordinances. Where I live there's no such thing as designated areas to walk one's dog, though there are enclosed designated areas to let one's dog off the leash in parks.

Anyway, dude's really aggressive about it. "Hey, dumbass, what do you think you're doing?"

I turn around. A badge is walking toward me. I look at the leash, my dog and back at him.

"Get your dog out of here now."

I start to walk away toward my car. I surmise what the problem must be. Why talk about it? He told me to leave. What do I care? The dog already peed.

"Where the hell you going?"

I point at my car, the only one around at that end of the lot.

He's walking toward me again. I can tell he's pissed because I won't speak.

"What's your name?"

"Am I being detained or Am I free to go?"

Now he's really pissed.

"Give me your ID."

"Why?"

[My wife has the camera out now and is filming from behind the windshield. He doesn't see that. Never go anywhere without it!]

"Okay, smartass, I was going to let you go, now I'm going to cite you."

"Your name and badge number will be on the citation?" [I'm audio recording on my phone, by the way, a handy little feature.]

Don't recall what he said to that, but it wasn't nice. More verbal abuse.

"You're out of state? This is your real name and current address?"

"That's right."

[Now he notices my wife and the camera.]

"Tell her to turn that off."

"Not a chance in hell, and I'm audio recording. There's no wiretap law in California prohibiting it. You have no more expectation of privacy in public than I do."

That's when his tone changes. No citation after all. I wouldn't have paid it anyway, just sent a copy of the recordings to the respective courthouse . . . from another state.

True story.

I imagine this clown has gotten a lot of complaints, and that's the main reason he backed off.

You're lucky he didn't shoot you. Yes, I am dead serious.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

If you're talking about phones...I don't have Apple anythings.
I mostly just use my Android phone for making calls and texting.

Thinking about it further, in my non-US state, recording people by video or sound without their knowledge is illegal.

First, insofar as you’re arguing that these checkpoints save lives and, thus, are worth the inconvenience, I can respect your motive. It doesn’t justify suspicionless and warrantless stops and the dangers thereof, but I respect the motive. I utterly reject the notion that one should cooperate beyond stopping, however, as that unredeemably erodes the foundation of inalienable rights and exposes one to incrimination by corrupt cops and serves to corrupt the others by encouraging them to think and behave as our lords and masters.


Wiretap restrictions.

The same thing is true in the United States almost everywhere, albeit, concerning audio recordings only, which is why I informed the cop in San Diego. Now there are certain jurisdictions in about 12 states that prohibit both video or audio recordings in public relative to the concerns of knowledge, consent and/or purpose. Activists are incessantly challenging these restrictions in public and have been winning for the most part. At least two or three District Courts of Appeals have struck them down, while the Supreme Court has refused to place any more burdens on First Amendment rights for non-commercial purposes, and rightly so. Bottom line: the politicians who complicate things in those jurisdictions, supposedly in the name of protecting you, do so in fact to shield themselves and their police officers from scrutiny.


7 Rules for Recording Police | Flex Your Rights

Supreme Court Inaction Boosts Right To Record Police Officers

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

DUI checkpoints are illegal in the sense that they are clearly violative of the 4th Amendment's prohibition against illegal search and seizure. The U.S. Supreme court conceded that they are violative of the 4th, but authoriezed them nonetheless as an exception justified by public safety. The "minor intrusion" on the traveler's journey along a public highway is outweighed by the benefit to society as a whole in curtailing drunk drivers.

I disagree with the U.S. Supremes.

I particularly liked one statement uttered several times by this driver: "Am I free to go or am I being detained?" Whenever a police officer confronts someone, whether it is at a DUI checkpoint, on the street or wherever, the officer will refer to it as a "consensual encounter," engage the person in general conversation and then ask more direct questions "do you have anything illegal on you?," etc.

As soon as the cop says, "Hi, how ya doin'?", you should say, "Pretty good, officer. Am I being detained here, or am I free to go on my way?" If he says you are being detained, you are then entitled to a Miranda warning and are not obligated to answer any questions. (You're not obligated to answer any questions anyway, assuming there was no probable cause for the encounter.) If he says you are free to go - go.

What's really quite amazing is the response of some who don't care that checkpoints of any kind within the interior boundaries of the United States are in fact, as acknowledge by the Court, per se violations of the Fourth. Worse, is their attitude toward those who will not tolerate being harassed by questions.

BTW, that's my standard answer.

I've only been through one DUI checkpoint. The officer knew the law and responded professionally when I told him that I don't answer questions put to me by police officers.

"Why not?"

"Like I said, officer, I don't answer questions."

"I'm just trying to ensure your safety and that of the public." [I must say, that was a very smooth comeback.]

"I'm just wondering if I'm being detained or if I'm free to go."

To which he smiled and said, "You're free to go."
________________________________________

Now, in San Diego, I ran into a real arrogant cop, young and arrogant, bad combination.

I was walking my dog in Balboa Park outside the designated area. I didn't know that at the time being an out-of-towner unfamiliar with local ordinances. Where I live there's no such thing as designated areas to walk one's dog, though there are enclosed designated areas to let one's dog off the leash in parks.

Anyway, dude's really aggressive about it. "Hey, dumbass, what do you think you're doing?"

I turn around. A badge is walking toward me. I look at the leash, my dog and back at him.

"Get your dog out of here now."

I start to walk away toward my car. I surmise what the problem must be. Why talk about it? He told me to leave. What do I care? The dog already peed.

"Where the hell you going?"

I point at my car, the only one around at that end of the lot.

He's walking toward me again. I can tell he's pissed because I won't speak.

"What's your name?"

"Am I being detained or Am I free to go?"

Now he's really pissed.

"Give me your ID."

"Why?"

[My wife has the camera out now and is filming from behind the windshield. He doesn't see that. Never go anywhere without it!]

"Okay, smartass, I was going to let you go, now I'm going to cite you."

"Your name and badge number will be on the citation?" [I'm audio recording on my phone, by the way, a handy little feature.]

Don't recall what he said to that, but it wasn't nice. More verbal abuse.

"You're out of state? This is your real name and current address?"

"That's right."

[Now he notices my wife and the camera.]

"Tell her to turn that off."

"Not a chance in hell, and I'm audio recording. There's no wiretap law in California prohibiting it. You have no more expectation of privacy in public than I do."

That's when his tone changes. No citation after all. I wouldn't have paid it anyway, just sent a copy of the recordings to the respective courthouse . . . from another state.

True story.

I imagine this clown has gotten a lot of complaints, and that's the main reason he backed off.

You're lucky he didn't shoot you. Yes, I am dead serious.

Shoot me?! What in the world are you talking about? I said he was arrogant. I didn't say he was nuts. LOL!