Time to declare War on Islam

[Coyote]

women are systematically oppressed in fundamental religions. i understand that a white christian religions zealot is incapable of seeing that.

i don't hate christians. you hate everyone who isn't christian. i just want y'all to leave the rest of us alone.

The hypocrisy is rich. Fundamentalist Christian women are not oppressed. Not more so than Orthodox Jewish women are. I thought you'd recognize that. Just because they might sit in different sections of the hall does not mean they can't be citizens with equal rights or that their religious responsibilities are limited. Thought you'd know that Ortho Jew women pretty much run the religious practice in the home. And that they are encouraged to study and learn..

There's "leftist" oppression -- and then there's clit removal, denial of education, subservience and approved spousal abuse.

That DOES occur among Christians and the more fundamentalist the faith, the more the woman is likely to be subservient. How often do you suppose verses like these are used to justify wife beating?

"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Ephesians 5:22-23

11 Countries with the hightest rates of domestic violence:
Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Somalia, Mali, Guatamalia, Sudan, Congo, Afghanistan and topping the list - Chad.

Progressive countries have laws against domestic abuse and ways to help women report it and get out of it and an overall culture that condemns it, regardless of religion. In any of the fundamentalist sects of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism women are scriptually subordinate and the potential for abuse is much higher because of religious beliefs.

FGM also crosses religious boundaries because it's a cultural thing more than it's a religious thing. In those parts of the world where it is still practiced - it is practiced by all faiths as part of their culture.

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

The point I was making is this - each of those religions scriptually places women on a lower order than men. That leaves open the door to abuse and abuse is much more likely to occur in fundamentalist sects where scripture is taken much more literally and women MORE likely to be isolated from the general community - that occurs in Islam, but also in Christianity and Judaism. Abuse is more likely to be hidden, shameful, and handled "within" the community rather than by law enforcement.

Now I agree with what you are saying with successful WESTERN religious practices by and large, but wife beating does go on, and it shouldn't be ignored in any religion or culture.

.... I think isolated religious sects based on Judaism or Christianity, that has female abuse that is "more likely to be hidden, shameful, and handled "within" the community" --- is as much a figment of your imagination as the Japanese question that folks have proposed.

Brother admits murdering model sister over "honor" lost to Facebook pics - CBS News

MULTAN, Pakistan - The brother of slain Pakistani model Qandeel Baloch on Sunday confessed to strangling her to death for "family honor" because she posted "shameful" pictures on Facebook.

Baloch, who had become a social media celebrity in recent months, stirred controversy by posting pictures online taken with a prominent Muslim cleric. She was found dead on Saturday at her family home in the central city of Multan.

Police arrested her brother, Waseem Azeem, and presented him before the media in Multan, where he confessed to killing her. He said people had taunted him over the photos and that he found the social embarrassment unbearable.

Nearly 1,000 women are murdered in Pakistan each year for violating conservative norms on love and marriage. The so-called "honor killings" are often carried out by family members.

Such killings are considered murder. But Islamic law in Pakistan allows a murder victim's family to pardon the killer, which often allows those convicted of honor killings to escape punishment.

This year alone, a schoolteacher, Maria Bibi, was set on fire for refusing to marry a man twice her age. The prime suspect in the case -- the father of the man she refused to marry -- and the other four are in custody.

A month earlier, police arrested 13 members of a local tribal council who allegedly strangled a girl and set her on fire for helping a friend elope. The charred body of17-year-old Ambreen Riasat was found in a burned van.

In June, a different 17-year-old girl was burned alive by her own family for eloping with the man she loved quietly. Her mom said she had no regrets.

Just happened last week. Quandeel fashioned herself as a symbol of empowerment for women. Got caught in a Hotel with a high Cleric during Ramadan.

Guess I need about 2000 American Jew/Christian cultists "abusing women" every year to this extent. The Paki Model was only doing the "Miley Cyrus" tolerance test. And she got killed for it..



I needed to add the vid -- because I haven't objectified any women yet today..

You're also comparing Pakistan to the US...which is a bit of apples and oranges.

If you look at domestic abuse worldwide - violence towards women by men - do you know which country has one of (if not the most) highest rates of women disfigured by acid? Columbia, as well as Guatamala. Also breast ironing (WTF!), bride burning, etc. Both those countries are almost entirely Christian. AND THIS NEVER MAKES IT in the mainstream media.

 

[flacaltenn]

Ummm jCoyote -- saw an article for a Christian guy doing an honor killing.. You INTERESTED?

Christian man kills own sister in name of 'honour' in Sialkot - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Anum Ishaq Masih, in her late teens and from a Christian family, was murdered while she slept in the city of Sialkot southwest of Lahore in the early hours of Sunday.

“Saqib Ishaq Masih, 23, killed his sister by smashing her head with a wooden log while she was sleeping,” Rana Zulfiqar, the officer in-charge of the police station in Sialkot, told AFP.

“The girl, named Anum Ishaq Masih, was in her late teens and wanted to marry a Christian neighbour but the family was against the marriage,” he said.

Rana said the girl was insisting on Saturday that she would marry the man, infuriating her sibling.

The brother has since been arrested and charged with murder after the girl's father filed a case against him.

Shamoon Gill, a Christian activist, told AFP that 'honour' killings were very rare among the Christian community in Pakistan.

“It has nothing to do with religion but is part of a social issue that is deeply rooted in eastern societies,” he said.

Well damn.. Pretty much IS what I've telling you --- huh? THERE's your fundamentalist Christian abuse of women. And EVEN in Paki -- it's not hidden or just imagined.

Could ONLY be predicted to happen to a Christian family in those perverted cultures.

 

[koshergrl]

No, Im not speaking to alleged difficulties.of.muslims.

What I am saying is what I've said all along...Japan isn't dealing with muslim terrorism because they discourage islam as a faith, they wont hire muslims, and the fact that muslims can't get hired means they are excluded from gaining citizenship because japanese don't allow ppl without a proven work history and good citizenship record to become citizens.

Additionally, it is illegal to seek converts in Japan, and they make it extremely difficult to import literature written in ARABIC.

That was my point. Coyote the moron has been spinning like crazy but she's on an unrelated and ridiculous tangent that has nothing to do with me. Though her attempts to marginalize multiple, engaged experts and to replace them with snopes is good for a mild chuckle.

Can you seriously get any more stupid? Seriously?

Japan does NOT discourage Islam as a faith.
It is NOT illegal to seek converts. Hell, the Imam (the sole Japanese Imam) of a Tokyo Mosque is a CONVERT.
And no, it is not at all difficult to import literature written in ARABIC.

And you're a liar.

The pro-terror left pretends that in observing that Japan has no muslim terror and the reasons for it, that the people who actually care about such issues have said (via some "email" that the left pretends everybody received. I didn't receive one...) that there are no muslim immigrants, that muslims cannot obtain citizenship. Nobody said that. I certainly didn't.

What I said, and what is the truth, is that Japan famously discourages muslims from obtaining citizenship ship. Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them. Yet to obtain citizenship in Japan, an immigrant has to have a substantial work history inside Japan. Bingo bango, very few muslim citizens.

There is a law that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting. It might apply to all religion, I don't know. But the result is there is only one imam in TOKYO who is allowed to address the masses...and if you have ever read his stuff, you will note that he is constantly affirming that he doesn't SEEK converts. Because for him to do so would buy him some trouble.

And the import laws make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan.

Now what Coyote does is she pretends that I've said something else entirely, and then claims I haven't proved what I didn't say. It's schizophrenic, but it's simple. She does it all the time. She makes an ass of herself, then will spend days trying to change the narrative to make herself look less ass like. IT DOESN'T WORK, coyote.

OK, but I haven't seen this supposed law that makes it illegal to try and convert someone to Islam. I haven't seen the supposed import laws that make it difficult to import text written in Arabic. I haven't seen any evidence that Muslims cannot get employment.

I have read that the Japanese have a history of distrust or dislike of Islam, but also that there are both foreign and Japanese Muslims, that there is nothing to make importing Arabic text particularly difficult, and I've seen nothing to indicate attempting to convert someone to Islam is against the law other than what I've seen in this thread. Perhaps, rather than employers not hiring Muslims, it is more an issue of employers in Japan not being willing to allow things like breaks for prayer or particular forms of Muslim dress? That is the kind of things discussed in the anecdotes in this article : Islam in Japan . You can find the examples in the section "The Realities of Muslim Life in Japan".

Again, I wonder if you are taking a true cultural intolerance or dislike of Islam in Japan and exaggerating it. Some evidence of the laws you've talked about would help.

What LAWS? The laws that maintain that they have to hold a job for a certain block of time before they can be considered for citizenship?

You doubt that the law exists?

How about a law "that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting."?

How about the import laws that "make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan."?

Those are your words I'm quoting and the laws I asked about.

When it comes to employment, I asked for evidence that Muslims cannot get employment in Japan because of their religion. I've already brought up the possibility that certain things like 5 times daily prayer could be unacceptable in Japanese workplaces, but that isn't the same as an employer refusing to hire someone because they are Muslim.

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

 

[flacaltenn]

The hypocrisy is rich. Fundamentalist Christian women are not oppressed. Not more so than Orthodox Jewish women are. I thought you'd recognize that. Just because they might sit in different sections of the hall does not mean they can't be citizens with equal rights or that their religious responsibilities are limited. Thought you'd know that Ortho Jew women pretty much run the religious practice in the home. And that they are encouraged to study and learn..

There's "leftist" oppression -- and then there's clit removal, denial of education, subservience and approved spousal abuse.

That DOES occur among Christians and the more fundamentalist the faith, the more the woman is likely to be subservient. How often do you suppose verses like these are used to justify wife beating?

"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Ephesians 5:22-23

11 Countries with the hightest rates of domestic violence:
Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Somalia, Mali, Guatamalia, Sudan, Congo, Afghanistan and topping the list - Chad.

Progressive countries have laws against domestic abuse and ways to help women report it and get out of it and an overall culture that condemns it, regardless of religion. In any of the fundamentalist sects of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism women are scriptually subordinate and the potential for abuse is much higher because of religious beliefs.

FGM also crosses religious boundaries because it's a cultural thing more than it's a religious thing. In those parts of the world where it is still practiced - it is practiced by all faiths as part of their culture.

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

The point I was making is this - each of those religions scriptually places women on a lower order than men. That leaves open the door to abuse and abuse is much more likely to occur in fundamentalist sects where scripture is taken much more literally and women MORE likely to be isolated from the general community - that occurs in Islam, but also in Christianity and Judaism. Abuse is more likely to be hidden, shameful, and handled "within" the community rather than by law enforcement.

Now I agree with what you are saying with successful WESTERN religious practices by and large, but wife beating does go on, and it shouldn't be ignored in any religion or culture.

.... I think isolated religious sects based on Judaism or Christianity, that has female abuse that is "more likely to be hidden, shameful, and handled "within" the community" --- is as much a figment of your imagination as the Japanese question that folks have proposed.

Brother admits murdering model sister over "honor" lost to Facebook pics - CBS News

MULTAN, Pakistan - The brother of slain Pakistani model Qandeel Baloch on Sunday confessed to strangling her to death for "family honor" because she posted "shameful" pictures on Facebook.

Baloch, who had become a social media celebrity in recent months, stirred controversy by posting pictures online taken with a prominent Muslim cleric. She was found dead on Saturday at her family home in the central city of Multan.

Police arrested her brother, Waseem Azeem, and presented him before the media in Multan, where he confessed to killing her. He said people had taunted him over the photos and that he found the social embarrassment unbearable.

Nearly 1,000 women are murdered in Pakistan each year for violating conservative norms on love and marriage. The so-called "honor killings" are often carried out by family members.

Such killings are considered murder. But Islamic law in Pakistan allows a murder victim's family to pardon the killer, which often allows those convicted of honor killings to escape punishment.

This year alone, a schoolteacher, Maria Bibi, was set on fire for refusing to marry a man twice her age. The prime suspect in the case -- the father of the man she refused to marry -- and the other four are in custody.

A month earlier, police arrested 13 members of a local tribal council who allegedly strangled a girl and set her on fire for helping a friend elope. The charred body of17-year-old Ambreen Riasat was found in a burned van.

In June, a different 17-year-old girl was burned alive by her own family for eloping with the man she loved quietly. Her mom said she had no regrets.

Just happened last week. Quandeel fashioned herself as a symbol of empowerment for women. Got caught in a Hotel with a high Cleric during Ramadan.

Guess I need about 2000 American Jew/Christian cultists "abusing women" every year to this extent. The Paki Model was only doing the "Miley Cyrus" tolerance test. And she got killed for it..



I needed to add the vid -- because I haven't objectified any women yet today..

You're also comparing Pakistan to the US...which is a bit of apples and oranges.

If you look at domestic abuse worldwide - violence towards women by men - do you know which country has one of (if not the most) highest rates of women disfigured by acid? Columbia, as well as Guatamala. Also breast ironing (WTF!), bride burning, etc. Both those countries are almost entirely Christian. AND THIS NEVER MAKES IT in the mainstream media.

And you're making generalities out of context. I've conceded that there is no CURRENT Muslim issue in America.. All these threads are REALLY ABOUT keeping that shit in Pakistan and the other Hell Holes..

And OUT of Western nations..

 

[koshergrl]

This is interesting, too:

"On May 31, the court dismissed an appeal from 17 Japanese Muslims who sued the government when leaked police files showed that they – along with Tokyo-based Islamic worship centers, Muslim restaurants, and Islam-related organizations – were under national surveillance.

"The court awarded the plaintiffs nearly $1 million in damages, but the judges declined to make any judgement against the profiling tactics themselves. By dismissing this part of the case, the court essentially upheld a lower court ruling that deemed this surveillance “necessary and inevitable” in the fight against terrorism."

That's why there's no problem with infestation in Japan.

http://www.fixthisnation.com/conser...japan-high-court-upholds-muslim-surveillance/

 

[Montrovant]

Can you seriously get any more stupid? Seriously?

Japan does NOT discourage Islam as a faith.
It is NOT illegal to seek converts. Hell, the Imam (the sole Japanese Imam) of a Tokyo Mosque is a CONVERT.
And no, it is not at all difficult to import literature written in ARABIC.

And you're a liar.

The pro-terror left pretends that in observing that Japan has no muslim terror and the reasons for it, that the people who actually care about such issues have said (via some "email" that the left pretends everybody received. I didn't receive one...) that there are no muslim immigrants, that muslims cannot obtain citizenship. Nobody said that. I certainly didn't.

What I said, and what is the truth, is that Japan famously discourages muslims from obtaining citizenship ship. Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them. Yet to obtain citizenship in Japan, an immigrant has to have a substantial work history inside Japan. Bingo bango, very few muslim citizens.

There is a law that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting. It might apply to all religion, I don't know. But the result is there is only one imam in TOKYO who is allowed to address the masses...and if you have ever read his stuff, you will note that he is constantly affirming that he doesn't SEEK converts. Because for him to do so would buy him some trouble.

And the import laws make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan.

Now what Coyote does is she pretends that I've said something else entirely, and then claims I haven't proved what I didn't say. It's schizophrenic, but it's simple. She does it all the time. She makes an ass of herself, then will spend days trying to change the narrative to make herself look less ass like. IT DOESN'T WORK, coyote.

OK, but I haven't seen this supposed law that makes it illegal to try and convert someone to Islam. I haven't seen the supposed import laws that make it difficult to import text written in Arabic. I haven't seen any evidence that Muslims cannot get employment.

I have read that the Japanese have a history of distrust or dislike of Islam, but also that there are both foreign and Japanese Muslims, that there is nothing to make importing Arabic text particularly difficult, and I've seen nothing to indicate attempting to convert someone to Islam is against the law other than what I've seen in this thread. Perhaps, rather than employers not hiring Muslims, it is more an issue of employers in Japan not being willing to allow things like breaks for prayer or particular forms of Muslim dress? That is the kind of things discussed in the anecdotes in this article : Islam in Japan . You can find the examples in the section "The Realities of Muslim Life in Japan".

Again, I wonder if you are taking a true cultural intolerance or dislike of Islam in Japan and exaggerating it. Some evidence of the laws you've talked about would help.

What LAWS? The laws that maintain that they have to hold a job for a certain block of time before they can be considered for citizenship?

You doubt that the law exists?

How about a law "that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting."?

How about the import laws that "make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan."?

Those are your words I'm quoting and the laws I asked about.

When it comes to employment, I asked for evidence that Muslims cannot get employment in Japan because of their religion. I've already brought up the possibility that certain things like 5 times daily prayer could be unacceptable in Japanese workplaces, but that isn't the same as an employer refusing to hire someone because they are Muslim.

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

You said this :

Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them.

and this :

Japan isn't dealing with muslim terrorism because they discourage islam as a faith, they wont hire muslims, and the fact that muslims can't get hired means they are excluded from gaining citizenship

and this :

All state unequivocally that Muslim extremism isn't a problem in Japan because the Japanese don't welcome them and won't hire them.

All of those state that Japanese won't hire Muslims, not that they are "reluctant" to do so. Is 3 quotes enough, or do I need to look for more?

I didn't say that I "maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials". I asked for evidence that such a law exists. I also provided at least one link to an article which claims that idea is completely false. Asking for evidence of your claims doesn't seem particularly onerous to me.

I didn't say it is a lie that citizenship hinges on employability. I have questioned whether or not Muslims are turned away from employment just for being Muslim, but I have also said that I've read about the Japanese being distrusting towards or holding bad stereotypes of Muslims.

You have posted some links which talk about the difficulty in obtaining Japanese citizenship or residency for ALL foreigners, not just Muslims. In none of those did it mention anything about Muslims being particularly targeted to prevent their immigrating to Japan. In fact, I don't think those articles mentioned Muslims at all. You also posted that Japan: The Land Without Muslims article. That claims it is official policy of Japan not to give citizenship to Muslims, that it is illegal to proselytize Islam in Japan, that is official policy of Japanese authorities not to allow entry to the country by Muslims, but provides no evidence of those claims. Further, I have provided countering articles, so why should I accept that as fact and ignore those which tell a different story? The only reason I can see is that the article you linked to fits your own biases.

It's possible that Japan tries to keep Muslims out. Japan is not the United States and isn't bound by the same laws, nor does it have the same cultural ideals. I've even provided some examples of where Muslim religious requirements might clash with Japanese culture. I'm not willing to just accept that as truth based on the claims of a single article which contains no evidence, however. That's why I've asked you for evidence of the laws you claim exist, and to clarify, I'd like to see it somewhere other than this single article. If you had a link to an official Japanese government site which shows such laws, that would be outstanding. I realize that might be problematic since I do not speak or read Japanese, of course.

 

[koshergrl]

And you're a liar.

The pro-terror left pretends that in observing that Japan has no muslim terror and the reasons for it, that the people who actually care about such issues have said (via some "email" that the left pretends everybody received. I didn't receive one...) that there are no muslim immigrants, that muslims cannot obtain citizenship. Nobody said that. I certainly didn't.

What I said, and what is the truth, is that Japan famously discourages muslims from obtaining citizenship ship. Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them. Yet to obtain citizenship in Japan, an immigrant has to have a substantial work history inside Japan. Bingo bango, very few muslim citizens.

There is a law that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting. It might apply to all religion, I don't know. But the result is there is only one imam in TOKYO who is allowed to address the masses...and if you have ever read his stuff, you will note that he is constantly affirming that he doesn't SEEK converts. Because for him to do so would buy him some trouble.

And the import laws make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan.

Now what Coyote does is she pretends that I've said something else entirely, and then claims I haven't proved what I didn't say. It's schizophrenic, but it's simple. She does it all the time. She makes an ass of herself, then will spend days trying to change the narrative to make herself look less ass like. IT DOESN'T WORK, coyote.

OK, but I haven't seen this supposed law that makes it illegal to try and convert someone to Islam. I haven't seen the supposed import laws that make it difficult to import text written in Arabic. I haven't seen any evidence that Muslims cannot get employment.

I have read that the Japanese have a history of distrust or dislike of Islam, but also that there are both foreign and Japanese Muslims, that there is nothing to make importing Arabic text particularly difficult, and I've seen nothing to indicate attempting to convert someone to Islam is against the law other than what I've seen in this thread. Perhaps, rather than employers not hiring Muslims, it is more an issue of employers in Japan not being willing to allow things like breaks for prayer or particular forms of Muslim dress? That is the kind of things discussed in the anecdotes in this article : Islam in Japan . You can find the examples in the section "The Realities of Muslim Life in Japan".

Again, I wonder if you are taking a true cultural intolerance or dislike of Islam in Japan and exaggerating it. Some evidence of the laws you've talked about would help.

What LAWS? The laws that maintain that they have to hold a job for a certain block of time before they can be considered for citizenship?

You doubt that the law exists?

How about a law "that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting."?

How about the import laws that "make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan."?

Those are your words I'm quoting and the laws I asked about.

When it comes to employment, I asked for evidence that Muslims cannot get employment in Japan because of their religion. I've already brought up the possibility that certain things like 5 times daily prayer could be unacceptable in Japanese workplaces, but that isn't the same as an employer refusing to hire someone because they are Muslim.

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

You said this :

Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them.

and this :

Japan isn't dealing with muslim terrorism because they discourage islam as a faith, they wont hire muslims, and the fact that muslims can't get hired means they are excluded from gaining citizenship

and this :

All state unequivocally that Muslim extremism isn't a problem in Japan because the Japanese don't welcome them and won't hire them.

All of those state that Japanese won't hire Muslims, not that they are "reluctant" to do so. Is 3 quotes enough, or do I need to look for more?

I didn't say that I "maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials". I asked for evidence that such a law exists. I also provided at least one link to an article which claims that idea is completely false. Asking for evidence of your claims doesn't seem particularly onerous to me.

I didn't say it is a lie that citizenship hinges on employability. I have questioned whether or not Muslims are turned away from employment just for being Muslim, but I have also said that I've read about the Japanese being distrusting towards or holding bad stereotypes of Muslims.

You have posted some links which talk about the difficulty in obtaining Japanese citizenship or residency for ALL foreigners, not just Muslims. In none of those did it mention anything about Muslims being particularly targeted to prevent their immigrating to Japan. In fact, I don't think those articles mentioned Muslims at all. You also posted that Japan: The Land Without Muslims article. That claims it is official policy of Japan not to give citizenship to Muslims, that it is illegal to proselytize Islam in Japan, that is official policy of Japanese authorities not to allow entry to the country by Muslims, but provides no evidence of those claims. Further, I have provided countering articles, so why should I accept that as fact and ignore those which tell a different story? The only reason I can see is that the article you linked to fits your own biases.

It's possible that Japan tries to keep Muslims out. Japan is not the United States and isn't bound by the same laws, nor does it have the same cultural ideals. I've even provided some examples of where Muslim religious requirements might clash with Japanese culture. I'm not willing to just accept that as truth based on the claims of a single article which contains no evidence, however. That's why I've asked you for evidence of the laws you claim exist, and to clarify, I'd like to see it somewhere other than this single article. If you had a link to an official Japanese government site which shows such laws, that would be outstanding. I realize that might be problematic since I do not speak or read Japanese, of course.

It's not possible. Japan DOES keep muslims out. The policies that make it difficult for other people to infect Japan is the reason why they have not been infected by Islam. I made my points. You can blather "you should have said this" and "you should have said that" all you like, but the point is...Japan isn't welcoming to muslims. They are proud of their heritage and they want to protect their culture, which is estimable of them.

And we are talking about MUSLIMS in Japan..not about ALL the people who want to immigrate. The discussion is about why Muslims haven't established themselves in Japan and why they aren't blowing up ppl in Japan or mowing people down in Japan like they are here and elsewhere. It's because Japan isn't interested in bringing that garbage into their country. And if they suspect you want to alter the makeup of their country, they are going to deny you citizenship. The typical Japanese employer isn't going to hire a muslim from another country over a Japanese citizen. They don't do it, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[koshergrl]

"Japan manages to remain a country almost without a Muslim presence because Japan’s negative attitude toward Islam and Muslims pervades every level of the population, from the man in the street to organizations and companies to senior officialdom. In Japan, contrary to the situation in other countries, there are no “human rights” organizations to offer support to Muslims’ claims against the government’s position. In Japan no one illegally smuggles Muslims into the country to earn a few yen, and almost no one gives them the legal support they would need in order to get permits for temporary or permanent residency or citizenship.

"Another thing that helps the Japanese keep Muslim immigration to their shores to a minimum is the Japanese attitude toward the employee and employment. Migrant workers are perceived negatively in Japan, because they take the place of Japanese workers. A Japanese employer feels obligated to employ Japanese workers even if it costs much more than it would to employ foreign workers. "

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah! Me! And anybody else who's knowledgeable on the topic.

Japan: The Land Without Muslims

 

[koshergrl]

 

[Montrovant]

OK, but I haven't seen this supposed law that makes it illegal to try and convert someone to Islam. I haven't seen the supposed import laws that make it difficult to import text written in Arabic. I haven't seen any evidence that Muslims cannot get employment.

I have read that the Japanese have a history of distrust or dislike of Islam, but also that there are both foreign and Japanese Muslims, that there is nothing to make importing Arabic text particularly difficult, and I've seen nothing to indicate attempting to convert someone to Islam is against the law other than what I've seen in this thread. Perhaps, rather than employers not hiring Muslims, it is more an issue of employers in Japan not being willing to allow things like breaks for prayer or particular forms of Muslim dress? That is the kind of things discussed in the anecdotes in this article : Islam in Japan . You can find the examples in the section "The Realities of Muslim Life in Japan".

Again, I wonder if you are taking a true cultural intolerance or dislike of Islam in Japan and exaggerating it. Some evidence of the laws you've talked about would help.

What LAWS? The laws that maintain that they have to hold a job for a certain block of time before they can be considered for citizenship?

You doubt that the law exists?

How about a law "that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting."?

How about the import laws that "make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan."?

Those are your words I'm quoting and the laws I asked about.

When it comes to employment, I asked for evidence that Muslims cannot get employment in Japan because of their religion. I've already brought up the possibility that certain things like 5 times daily prayer could be unacceptable in Japanese workplaces, but that isn't the same as an employer refusing to hire someone because they are Muslim.

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

You said this :

Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them.

and this :

Japan isn't dealing with muslim terrorism because they discourage islam as a faith, they wont hire muslims, and the fact that muslims can't get hired means they are excluded from gaining citizenship

and this :

All state unequivocally that Muslim extremism isn't a problem in Japan because the Japanese don't welcome them and won't hire them.

All of those state that Japanese won't hire Muslims, not that they are "reluctant" to do so. Is 3 quotes enough, or do I need to look for more?

I didn't say that I "maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials". I asked for evidence that such a law exists. I also provided at least one link to an article which claims that idea is completely false. Asking for evidence of your claims doesn't seem particularly onerous to me.

I didn't say it is a lie that citizenship hinges on employability. I have questioned whether or not Muslims are turned away from employment just for being Muslim, but I have also said that I've read about the Japanese being distrusting towards or holding bad stereotypes of Muslims.

You have posted some links which talk about the difficulty in obtaining Japanese citizenship or residency for ALL foreigners, not just Muslims. In none of those did it mention anything about Muslims being particularly targeted to prevent their immigrating to Japan. In fact, I don't think those articles mentioned Muslims at all. You also posted that Japan: The Land Without Muslims article. That claims it is official policy of Japan not to give citizenship to Muslims, that it is illegal to proselytize Islam in Japan, that is official policy of Japanese authorities not to allow entry to the country by Muslims, but provides no evidence of those claims. Further, I have provided countering articles, so why should I accept that as fact and ignore those which tell a different story? The only reason I can see is that the article you linked to fits your own biases.

It's possible that Japan tries to keep Muslims out. Japan is not the United States and isn't bound by the same laws, nor does it have the same cultural ideals. I've even provided some examples of where Muslim religious requirements might clash with Japanese culture. I'm not willing to just accept that as truth based on the claims of a single article which contains no evidence, however. That's why I've asked you for evidence of the laws you claim exist, and to clarify, I'd like to see it somewhere other than this single article. If you had a link to an official Japanese government site which shows such laws, that would be outstanding. I realize that might be problematic since I do not speak or read Japanese, of course.

It's not possible. Japan DOES keep muslims out. The policies that make it difficult for other people to infect Japan is the reason why they have not been infected by Islam. I made my points. You can blather "you should have said this" and "you should have said that" all you like, but the point is...Japan isn't welcoming to muslims. They are proud of their heritage and they want to protect their culture, which is estimable of them.

And we are talking about MUSLIMS in Japan..not about ALL the people who want to immigrate. The discussion is about why Muslims haven't established themselves in Japan and why they aren't blowing up ppl in Japan or mowing people down in Japan like they are here and elsewhere. It's because Japan isn't interested in bringing that garbage into their country. And if they suspect you want to alter the makeup of their country, they are going to deny you citizenship. The typical Japanese employer isn't going to hire a muslim from another country over a Japanese citizen. They don't do it, the proof is in the pudding.

Where did I say "you should have said" anything?

Again, is Japan not welcoming to Muslims particularly, or to foreigners? The discussion may be about Muslims, but the question is relevant if you are going to say that Japan keeps Muslims out particularly. Even if the Japanese are unwelcoming to Muslims in particular, is that official policy or simply a cultural bigotry?

I still haven't seen the laws you've said exist. Is that pudding missing?

 

[koshergrl]

What LAWS? The laws that maintain that they have to hold a job for a certain block of time before they can be considered for citizenship?

You doubt that the law exists?

How about a law "that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting."?

How about the import laws that "make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan."?

Those are your words I'm quoting and the laws I asked about.

When it comes to employment, I asked for evidence that Muslims cannot get employment in Japan because of their religion. I've already brought up the possibility that certain things like 5 times daily prayer could be unacceptable in Japanese workplaces, but that isn't the same as an employer refusing to hire someone because they are Muslim.

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

You said this :

Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them.

and this :

Japan isn't dealing with muslim terrorism because they discourage islam as a faith, they wont hire muslims, and the fact that muslims can't get hired means they are excluded from gaining citizenship

and this :

All state unequivocally that Muslim extremism isn't a problem in Japan because the Japanese don't welcome them and won't hire them.

All of those state that Japanese won't hire Muslims, not that they are "reluctant" to do so. Is 3 quotes enough, or do I need to look for more?

I didn't say that I "maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials". I asked for evidence that such a law exists. I also provided at least one link to an article which claims that idea is completely false. Asking for evidence of your claims doesn't seem particularly onerous to me.

I didn't say it is a lie that citizenship hinges on employability. I have questioned whether or not Muslims are turned away from employment just for being Muslim, but I have also said that I've read about the Japanese being distrusting towards or holding bad stereotypes of Muslims.

You have posted some links which talk about the difficulty in obtaining Japanese citizenship or residency for ALL foreigners, not just Muslims. In none of those did it mention anything about Muslims being particularly targeted to prevent their immigrating to Japan. In fact, I don't think those articles mentioned Muslims at all. You also posted that Japan: The Land Without Muslims article. That claims it is official policy of Japan not to give citizenship to Muslims, that it is illegal to proselytize Islam in Japan, that is official policy of Japanese authorities not to allow entry to the country by Muslims, but provides no evidence of those claims. Further, I have provided countering articles, so why should I accept that as fact and ignore those which tell a different story? The only reason I can see is that the article you linked to fits your own biases.

It's possible that Japan tries to keep Muslims out. Japan is not the United States and isn't bound by the same laws, nor does it have the same cultural ideals. I've even provided some examples of where Muslim religious requirements might clash with Japanese culture. I'm not willing to just accept that as truth based on the claims of a single article which contains no evidence, however. That's why I've asked you for evidence of the laws you claim exist, and to clarify, I'd like to see it somewhere other than this single article. If you had a link to an official Japanese government site which shows such laws, that would be outstanding. I realize that might be problematic since I do not speak or read Japanese, of course.

It's not possible. Japan DOES keep muslims out. The policies that make it difficult for other people to infect Japan is the reason why they have not been infected by Islam. I made my points. You can blather "you should have said this" and "you should have said that" all you like, but the point is...Japan isn't welcoming to muslims. They are proud of their heritage and they want to protect their culture, which is estimable of them.

And we are talking about MUSLIMS in Japan..not about ALL the people who want to immigrate. The discussion is about why Muslims haven't established themselves in Japan and why they aren't blowing up ppl in Japan or mowing people down in Japan like they are here and elsewhere. It's because Japan isn't interested in bringing that garbage into their country. And if they suspect you want to alter the makeup of their country, they are going to deny you citizenship. The typical Japanese employer isn't going to hire a muslim from another country over a Japanese citizen. They don't do it, the proof is in the pudding.

Where did I say "you should have said" anything?

Again, is Japan not welcoming to Muslims particularly, or to foreigners? The discussion may be about Muslims, but the question is relevant if you are going to say that Japan keeps Muslims out particularly. Even if the Japanese are unwelcoming to Muslims in particular, is that official policy or simply a cultural bigotry?

I still haven't seen the laws you've said exist. Is that pudding missing?

The only law I stated existed was the one that forbids muslim evangelism.

Japan is welcoming enough to foreigners but yes, they do protect their national heritage. I never said otherwise. And THAT is why they don't have the problems we do with muslims.

I was pretty clear about it. The question is "why doesn't Japan have issues with Muslims to the extent everybody else does?" And the answer is "Their policies make it difficult and almost impossible for muslims to become citizens". Does that keep other nationalities and religious groups out as well?

Probably. It's supposed to.

 

[Montrovant]

How about a law "that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting."?

How about the import laws that "make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan."?

Those are your words I'm quoting and the laws I asked about.

When it comes to employment, I asked for evidence that Muslims cannot get employment in Japan because of their religion. I've already brought up the possibility that certain things like 5 times daily prayer could be unacceptable in Japanese workplaces, but that isn't the same as an employer refusing to hire someone because they are Muslim.

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

You said this :

Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them.

and this :

Japan isn't dealing with muslim terrorism because they discourage islam as a faith, they wont hire muslims, and the fact that muslims can't get hired means they are excluded from gaining citizenship

and this :

All state unequivocally that Muslim extremism isn't a problem in Japan because the Japanese don't welcome them and won't hire them.

All of those state that Japanese won't hire Muslims, not that they are "reluctant" to do so. Is 3 quotes enough, or do I need to look for more?

I didn't say that I "maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials". I asked for evidence that such a law exists. I also provided at least one link to an article which claims that idea is completely false. Asking for evidence of your claims doesn't seem particularly onerous to me.

I didn't say it is a lie that citizenship hinges on employability. I have questioned whether or not Muslims are turned away from employment just for being Muslim, but I have also said that I've read about the Japanese being distrusting towards or holding bad stereotypes of Muslims.

You have posted some links which talk about the difficulty in obtaining Japanese citizenship or residency for ALL foreigners, not just Muslims. In none of those did it mention anything about Muslims being particularly targeted to prevent their immigrating to Japan. In fact, I don't think those articles mentioned Muslims at all. You also posted that Japan: The Land Without Muslims article. That claims it is official policy of Japan not to give citizenship to Muslims, that it is illegal to proselytize Islam in Japan, that is official policy of Japanese authorities not to allow entry to the country by Muslims, but provides no evidence of those claims. Further, I have provided countering articles, so why should I accept that as fact and ignore those which tell a different story? The only reason I can see is that the article you linked to fits your own biases.

It's possible that Japan tries to keep Muslims out. Japan is not the United States and isn't bound by the same laws, nor does it have the same cultural ideals. I've even provided some examples of where Muslim religious requirements might clash with Japanese culture. I'm not willing to just accept that as truth based on the claims of a single article which contains no evidence, however. That's why I've asked you for evidence of the laws you claim exist, and to clarify, I'd like to see it somewhere other than this single article. If you had a link to an official Japanese government site which shows such laws, that would be outstanding. I realize that might be problematic since I do not speak or read Japanese, of course.

It's not possible. Japan DOES keep muslims out. The policies that make it difficult for other people to infect Japan is the reason why they have not been infected by Islam. I made my points. You can blather "you should have said this" and "you should have said that" all you like, but the point is...Japan isn't welcoming to muslims. They are proud of their heritage and they want to protect their culture, which is estimable of them.

And we are talking about MUSLIMS in Japan..not about ALL the people who want to immigrate. The discussion is about why Muslims haven't established themselves in Japan and why they aren't blowing up ppl in Japan or mowing people down in Japan like they are here and elsewhere. It's because Japan isn't interested in bringing that garbage into their country. And if they suspect you want to alter the makeup of their country, they are going to deny you citizenship. The typical Japanese employer isn't going to hire a muslim from another country over a Japanese citizen. They don't do it, the proof is in the pudding.

Where did I say "you should have said" anything?

Again, is Japan not welcoming to Muslims particularly, or to foreigners? The discussion may be about Muslims, but the question is relevant if you are going to say that Japan keeps Muslims out particularly. Even if the Japanese are unwelcoming to Muslims in particular, is that official policy or simply a cultural bigotry?

I still haven't seen the laws you've said exist. Is that pudding missing?

The only law I stated existed was the one that forbids muslim evangelism.

Japan is welcoming enough to foreigners but yes, they do protect their national heritage. I never said otherwise. And THAT is why they don't have the problems we do with muslims.

I was pretty clear about it. The question is "why doesn't Japan have issues with Muslims to the extent everybody else does?" And the answer is "Their policies make it difficult and almost impossible for muslims to become citizens". Does that keep other nationalities and religious groups out as well?

Probably. It's supposed to.

Actually, you said this, "And the import laws make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan." back in post #410.

There is a vast difference between saying that Japan's policies make it difficult for all foreigners to immigrate and saying that the Japanese don't like Muslims and make policies specifically to prevent Muslims from immigrating. The latter is what you seem to have been saying to this point. Perhaps it is even true. I'd like to see more evidence of it than the one article you linked, though.

I think we can all agree that is appears Japan makes it difficult for anyone to immigrate to the country.

 

[koshergrl]

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

You said this :

Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them.

and this :

Japan isn't dealing with muslim terrorism because they discourage islam as a faith, they wont hire muslims, and the fact that muslims can't get hired means they are excluded from gaining citizenship

and this :

All state unequivocally that Muslim extremism isn't a problem in Japan because the Japanese don't welcome them and won't hire them.

All of those state that Japanese won't hire Muslims, not that they are "reluctant" to do so. Is 3 quotes enough, or do I need to look for more?

I didn't say that I "maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials". I asked for evidence that such a law exists. I also provided at least one link to an article which claims that idea is completely false. Asking for evidence of your claims doesn't seem particularly onerous to me.

I didn't say it is a lie that citizenship hinges on employability. I have questioned whether or not Muslims are turned away from employment just for being Muslim, but I have also said that I've read about the Japanese being distrusting towards or holding bad stereotypes of Muslims.

You have posted some links which talk about the difficulty in obtaining Japanese citizenship or residency for ALL foreigners, not just Muslims. In none of those did it mention anything about Muslims being particularly targeted to prevent their immigrating to Japan. In fact, I don't think those articles mentioned Muslims at all. You also posted that Japan: The Land Without Muslims article. That claims it is official policy of Japan not to give citizenship to Muslims, that it is illegal to proselytize Islam in Japan, that is official policy of Japanese authorities not to allow entry to the country by Muslims, but provides no evidence of those claims. Further, I have provided countering articles, so why should I accept that as fact and ignore those which tell a different story? The only reason I can see is that the article you linked to fits your own biases.

It's possible that Japan tries to keep Muslims out. Japan is not the United States and isn't bound by the same laws, nor does it have the same cultural ideals. I've even provided some examples of where Muslim religious requirements might clash with Japanese culture. I'm not willing to just accept that as truth based on the claims of a single article which contains no evidence, however. That's why I've asked you for evidence of the laws you claim exist, and to clarify, I'd like to see it somewhere other than this single article. If you had a link to an official Japanese government site which shows such laws, that would be outstanding. I realize that might be problematic since I do not speak or read Japanese, of course.

It's not possible. Japan DOES keep muslims out. The policies that make it difficult for other people to infect Japan is the reason why they have not been infected by Islam. I made my points. You can blather "you should have said this" and "you should have said that" all you like, but the point is...Japan isn't welcoming to muslims. They are proud of their heritage and they want to protect their culture, which is estimable of them.

And we are talking about MUSLIMS in Japan..not about ALL the people who want to immigrate. The discussion is about why Muslims haven't established themselves in Japan and why they aren't blowing up ppl in Japan or mowing people down in Japan like they are here and elsewhere. It's because Japan isn't interested in bringing that garbage into their country. And if they suspect you want to alter the makeup of their country, they are going to deny you citizenship. The typical Japanese employer isn't going to hire a muslim from another country over a Japanese citizen. They don't do it, the proof is in the pudding.

Where did I say "you should have said" anything?

Again, is Japan not welcoming to Muslims particularly, or to foreigners? The discussion may be about Muslims, but the question is relevant if you are going to say that Japan keeps Muslims out particularly. Even if the Japanese are unwelcoming to Muslims in particular, is that official policy or simply a cultural bigotry?

I still haven't seen the laws you've said exist. Is that pudding missing?

The only law I stated existed was the one that forbids muslim evangelism.

Japan is welcoming enough to foreigners but yes, they do protect their national heritage. I never said otherwise. And THAT is why they don't have the problems we do with muslims.

I was pretty clear about it. The question is "why doesn't Japan have issues with Muslims to the extent everybody else does?" And the answer is "Their policies make it difficult and almost impossible for muslims to become citizens". Does that keep other nationalities and religious groups out as well?

Probably. It's supposed to.

Actually, you said this, "And the import laws make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan." back in post #410.

There is a vast difference between saying that Japan's policies make it difficult for all foreigners to immigrate and saying that the Japanese don't like Muslims and make policies specifically to prevent Muslims from immigrating. The latter is what you seem to have been saying to this point. Perhaps it is even true. I'd like to see more evidence of it than the one article you linked, though.

I think we can all agree that is appears Japan makes it difficult for anyone to immigrate to the country.

That, and their continuing rejection of muslim immigrants, is why they don't have the issue with muslim extremism the rest of the world is dealing with.

 

[skookerasbil]

Lets face it.......anybody against the Sharia association/felony idea is a domestic terrorist. Some of these progressive meathead limpwristers gonna take a harsh beating too along the way.........epic smackdowns. It'll be caught on video too and when the public see's it, that'll be the end of that shit!!. Will be the scarlet letter circa 2016!!!

 

[Coyote]

Ummm jCoyote -- saw an article for a Christian guy doing an honor killing.. You INTERESTED?

Christian man kills own sister in name of 'honour' in Sialkot - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Anum Ishaq Masih, in her late teens and from a Christian family, was murdered while she slept in the city of Sialkot southwest of Lahore in the early hours of Sunday.

“Saqib Ishaq Masih, 23, killed his sister by smashing her head with a wooden log while she was sleeping,” Rana Zulfiqar, the officer in-charge of the police station in Sialkot, told AFP.

“The girl, named Anum Ishaq Masih, was in her late teens and wanted to marry a Christian neighbour but the family was against the marriage,” he said.

Rana said the girl was insisting on Saturday that she would marry the man, infuriating her sibling.

The brother has since been arrested and charged with murder after the girl's father filed a case against him.

Shamoon Gill, a Christian activist, told AFP that 'honour' killings were very rare among the Christian community in Pakistan.

“It has nothing to do with religion but is part of a social issue that is deeply rooted in eastern societies,” he said.

Well damn.. Pretty much IS what I've telling you --- huh? THERE's your fundamentalist Christian abuse of women. And EVEN in Paki -- it's not hidden or just imagined.

Could ONLY be predicted to happen to a Christian family in those perverted cultures.

ok....I think we actually agree...that it's rooted in cultures and the cultures are the problem...so...I'm like so not fighting with you!

 

[Coyote]

Can you seriously get any more stupid? Seriously?

Japan does NOT discourage Islam as a faith.
It is NOT illegal to seek converts. Hell, the Imam (the sole Japanese Imam) of a Tokyo Mosque is a CONVERT.
And no, it is not at all difficult to import literature written in ARABIC.

And you're a liar.

The pro-terror left pretends that in observing that Japan has no muslim terror and the reasons for it, that the people who actually care about such issues have said (via some "email" that the left pretends everybody received. I didn't receive one...) that there are no muslim immigrants, that muslims cannot obtain citizenship. Nobody said that. I certainly didn't.

What I said, and what is the truth, is that Japan famously discourages muslims from obtaining citizenship ship. Their society views them suspiciously (as they well should) and employers don't hire them. Yet to obtain citizenship in Japan, an immigrant has to have a substantial work history inside Japan. Bingo bango, very few muslim citizens.

There is a law that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting. It might apply to all religion, I don't know. But the result is there is only one imam in TOKYO who is allowed to address the masses...and if you have ever read his stuff, you will note that he is constantly affirming that he doesn't SEEK converts. Because for him to do so would buy him some trouble.

And the import laws make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan.

Now what Coyote does is she pretends that I've said something else entirely, and then claims I haven't proved what I didn't say. It's schizophrenic, but it's simple. She does it all the time. She makes an ass of herself, then will spend days trying to change the narrative to make herself look less ass like. IT DOESN'T WORK, coyote.

OK, but I haven't seen this supposed law that makes it illegal to try and convert someone to Islam. I haven't seen the supposed import laws that make it difficult to import text written in Arabic. I haven't seen any evidence that Muslims cannot get employment.

I have read that the Japanese have a history of distrust or dislike of Islam, but also that there are both foreign and Japanese Muslims, that there is nothing to make importing Arabic text particularly difficult, and I've seen nothing to indicate attempting to convert someone to Islam is against the law other than what I've seen in this thread. Perhaps, rather than employers not hiring Muslims, it is more an issue of employers in Japan not being willing to allow things like breaks for prayer or particular forms of Muslim dress? That is the kind of things discussed in the anecdotes in this article : Islam in Japan . You can find the examples in the section "The Realities of Muslim Life in Japan".

Again, I wonder if you are taking a true cultural intolerance or dislike of Islam in Japan and exaggerating it. Some evidence of the laws you've talked about would help.

What LAWS? The laws that maintain that they have to hold a job for a certain block of time before they can be considered for citizenship?

You doubt that the law exists?

How about a law "that makes it illegal to exhort islam towards the end of coverting."?

How about the import laws that "make it very difficult for arab texts to be brought into and distributed in Japan."?

Those are your words I'm quoting and the laws I asked about.

When it comes to employment, I asked for evidence that Muslims cannot get employment in Japan because of their religion. I've already brought up the possibility that certain things like 5 times daily prayer could be unacceptable in Japanese workplaces, but that isn't the same as an employer refusing to hire someone because they are Muslim.

I didn't say they couldn't get employment. I said employers were reluctant to hire them. See, there's a difference.
Do you maintain there are no import laws that make it difficult to import large shipments of Arabic materials? Do you think it's a lie that citizenship doesn't hinge on employability?

You do know I posted all that stuff. I can't help it if you don't believe anything. That's not my problem. Fuzzy thinkers seem to think that just because they are resistant to facts, that the facts don't exist. It's just not so. I outsourced Coyote's lame and pathetic nonsense pages ago. If you think my sources are lying, then prove it.

What law makes Islamic proselytizing illegal in Japan - you have yet to provide evidence of a single law. How long are you going to keep up the pathetic dance of avoidance?

 

[NCC1701]

Ummm jCoyote -- saw an article for a Christian guy doing an honor killing.. You INTERESTED?

Christian man kills own sister in name of 'honour' in Sialkot - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Anum Ishaq Masih, in her late teens and from a Christian family, was murdered while she slept in the city of Sialkot southwest of Lahore in the early hours of Sunday.

“Saqib Ishaq Masih, 23, killed his sister by smashing her head with a wooden log while she was sleeping,” Rana Zulfiqar, the officer in-charge of the police station in Sialkot, told AFP.

“The girl, named Anum Ishaq Masih, was in her late teens and wanted to marry a Christian neighbour but the family was against the marriage,” he said.

Rana said the girl was insisting on Saturday that she would marry the man, infuriating her sibling.

The brother has since been arrested and charged with murder after the girl's father filed a case against him.

Shamoon Gill, a Christian activist, told AFP that 'honour' killings were very rare among the Christian community in Pakistan.

“It has nothing to do with religion but is part of a social issue that is deeply rooted in eastern societies,” he said.

Well damn.. Pretty much IS what I've telling you --- huh? THERE's your fundamentalist Christian abuse of women. And EVEN in Paki -- it's not hidden or just imagined.

Could ONLY be predicted to happen to a Christian family in those perverted cultures.

ok....I think we actually agree...that it's rooted in cultures and the cultures are the problem...so...I'm like so not fighting with you!

are back on that crap? Islam is a culture, most muslim countries are theocracies dominated by it, how fucking hard is it.

 

[Coyote]

and still more distractions and strawmen from KG - you can't answer a direct question so you decide to throw out what ever you can and see what sticks. This surveillance is in direct response to potential terrorist threats.

It says nothing about Islamic proselytizing being illegal or the religion being discouraged, it says nothing about Japanese attitudes towards Islam, it says nothing about your claim that it's extremely difficult to import Arab language texts into Japan or your claim that there is only one Imam in Tokyo. How long are you going to keep up this pretense?

 

[jillian]

A good case can be made for removing Islam's religious status/definition. I suggest we look into doing just that.

Islam is NOT a religion by any definition.
It's no different than Bob Jones's insanity or Charles Manson or David Corish.
ALL based on a cult figure who demands their followers to commit the most sick insane acts in 'his name'.
Time soon to scrub the earth of these vermin forever.
The joyous thing is that day will happen in my lifetime........and I've GOT CABLE to watch it!

Islam is a religion, has been a world religion for over a thousand years. It's not going to suddenly become a non-religion because a bunch of jumped-up johnny-come-latelies decide thatit's not because they they hate Muslims.

I assume any 'religion' is based on acknowledging some higher power which moves the adherents in some sort of positive life affirming continuum.
Buy I guess by strict definition those who worship satan would disagree.
I don't believe any GOD would have ever signed off on the evil violent death-cult misogynist 'religion' that is islam.

that is your own personal belief. and most muslims do not practice anything remotely like a "Death cult". As to misogyny..... all fundamentalist religions...and i mean all... whether muslim, christian, hindu (which made their women settee)and judaism... are inherently misogynist.

You delusional twat! Where in any Christian nation are women deprived the right to own land, to vote, to drive, to travel about unaccompanied by a male relative, to show skin, to have standing in court, or the right to equal employment opportunities? Where in Christian nations are women routinely subject to beatings, honor killings, rape, and female circumcision?

Your hatred toward Christianity is as blinding as it is contemptible.

you're pretty disgusting for someone who claims to be a christian. but then again, you don't even know the tenets of your religion.

freak of nature... i said misogynist. misogynist does not equal rape. misogynist equals treating women as less then men.

thanks for proving my point, loser.

 

[jillian]

that is your own personal belief. and most muslims do not practice anything remotely like a "Death cult". As to misogyny..... all fundamentalist religions...and i mean all... whether muslim, christian, hindu (which made their women settee)and judaism... are inherently misogynist.

You delusional twat! Where in any Christian nation are women deprived the right to own land, to vote, to drive, to travel about unaccompanied by a male relative, to show skin, to have standing in court, or the right to equal employment opportunities? Where in Christian nations are women routinely subject to beatings, honor killings, rape, and female circumcision?

Your hatred toward Christianity is as blinding as it is contemptible.

women are systematically oppressed in fundamental religions. i understand that a white christian religions zealot is incapable of seeing that.

i don't hate christians. you hate everyone who isn't christian. i just want y'all to leave the rest of us alone.

The hypocrisy is rich. Fundamentalist Christian women are not oppressed. Not more so than Orthodox Jewish women are. I thought you'd recognize that. Just because they might sit in different sections of the hall does not mean they can't be citizens with equal rights or that their religious responsibilities are limited. Thought you'd know that Ortho Jew women pretty much run the religious practice in the home. And that they are encouraged to study and learn..

There's "leftist" oppression -- and then there's clit removal, denial of education, subservience and approved spousal abuse.

That DOES occur among Christians and the more fundamentalist the faith, the more the woman is likely to be subservient. How often do you suppose verses like these are used to justify wife beating?

"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Ephesians 5:22-23

11 Countries with the hightest rates of domestic violence:
Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Somalia, Mali, Guatamalia, Sudan, Congo, Afghanistan and topping the list - Chad.

Progressive countries have laws against domestic abuse and ways to help women report it and get out of it and an overall culture that condemns it, regardless of religion. In any of the fundamentalist sects of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism women are scriptually subordinate and the potential for abuse is much higher because of religious beliefs.

FGM also crosses religious boundaries because it's a cultural thing more than it's a religious thing. In those parts of the world where it is still practiced - it is practiced by all faiths as part of their culture.

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?