Time to declare War on Islam

[Montrovant]

"In a country where nationals favor a racially unique and homogenous society, the foreign population accounted for only 1.7 percent of the total population in 2010, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Japan's strict immigration—or, rather, anti-immigration—policies have drawn heavy criticism."

Immigration Policies Around the World

So the National Geographic, Japan Times, and Dr. Modecai Kedar ( (Ph.D. Bar-Ilan U.) Served for 25 years in IDF Military Intelligence specializing in Arab political discourse, Arab mass media, Islamic groups and the Syrian domestic arena. A lecturer in Arabic at Bar-Ilan U., he is also an expert on Israeli Arabs.) all agree..Japan's strict immigration and anti-Muslim policies have protected them from the terror known as "globalism"...i.e., "sitting ducks for Mohommed" movement.

Mordecai Kedar is the same person who wrote that initial article (and he's associated with Pam Gellar) - you are simply repeating the same source here, nothing new.

That's one thing. And secondly - did you even READ the article you quoted? Here's the relevant portion:

Japan


In a country where nationals favor a racially unique and homogenous society, the foreign population accounted for only 1.7 percent of the total population in 2010, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Japan's strict immigration—or, rather, anti-immigration—policies have drawn heavy criticism.


Like Canada, Japan is facing a rapidly declining population in which the low birthrate can barely match the death rate of the country's senior citizens. The population now sits at 128 million, but analysts estimate the number will have shrunk by a third in 2060, forcing the country to embrace more open policies.


Following the examples of Canada and the United Kingdom, Japan rolled out a new point-based system last spring to rate immigrants. Immigrants earn points based on their academic background and research or business experience, among other factors. Those who score higher—mainly professionals like professors, doctors, and corporate managers—will be given preferential treatment.​

No where in it, or in the articles it links to does it say anything about Muslims - nada. What it says is what is already widely known, Japan is very anti-foreigner, and always has been and that applies all foreigners.

It was a nice try, but you should read your sources first before making youself look any more like an idiot then you are.

Hey but Coyote and snopes are on the same page...

Snopes.com CEO Arrested on Charges of Fraud and Corruption - Dr. Rich Swier

"Having established their website as a reputable resource for validating and debunking stories in American popular culture since 1995, the Mikkelson couple soon found themselves in a position to influence public discourse by punishing or rewarding certain cultural and political biases. Before long they were accepting money to promote some rumors and downplay or completely ignore some others, which over the years have brought them millions of dollars, according to the source.

"Especially scandalous may be the website’s possible collaboration with left-leaning national media organizations, which started with payments to Snopes.com to overlook or validate their inaccurate and biased reporting, and eventually evolved into a full-scale coordinated effort with left-leaning groups and public relation firms to construct a media narrative that gave legitimacy to certain opinions, political causes and public figures, while discrediting other opinions, causes, and public figures.

"The list of groups and individuals paying to use the website’s clout ranged from local politicians to transnational entities to foreign governments, including Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the Palestinian Authority."

Snopes CEO Arrested on Fraud, Corruption Charges-Fiction!

The Truth:


Barbara and David Mikkelson have not been arrested on fraud and corruption charges.


A fake news website called The People’s Cube started that rumor with a story that appeared under the headline, “Snopes.com CEO arrested on charges of fraud and corruption.” According to the report:

...The story goes that police followed a paper trail to Barbara and David Mikkelson after a Snopes editor lashed out a flea market vendor in Los Angeles for playing the song “Dixie’s Land” because of its ties to the Confederacy and Old South.


The story was shared thousands of times, but it’s a work of fiction.​

The People’s Cube describes itself as a People’s Political Humor and Satire Collective, among other things.​

Actually...at this point...I don't think it's possible for you to look any more like an idiot. Kudos on an unprecedented accomplishment.

My brother-in-law, a university professor in Canada spent a number of years working in Japan until recently.
Part of his work was to sit on a board of Japanese immigration gov. officials tasked with administering the 'point system' and accepting or rejecting applications from potential immigrants.
He was on the board as a Canadian adviser.
I phoned him when this thread got into Japanese/muslim immigration.
To paraphrase when asked about whether the Japanese immigration officials were allowing muslims to immigrate: "There are a number a factors which 100% guaranteed the applicant would never be considered.
Criminal records in country of origin obviously is one. If the applicant lists their religion as 'muslim' the application is literally shredded on the spot. There are also certain countries that the Japanese gov. will never accept immigrants from no matter how highly qualified the applicant is.
The Japanese gov. never gives any reason for denying an application.
In the case of being a muslim there are always hundreds of applicants with as high or higher qualifications to choose from. Muslims and negroes are considered by the Japanese to be 'dirty' and 'violent'. (Those Japanese know their stuff when it comes to judging people.)
If the gov. decides it needs specific science and technological expertise and say a muslim has it the gov. MAY issue a 'guest worker visa' for a specific amount of time (until the expert has basically taught the japanese scientists all he knows.) The day the visa expires the 'guest worker' is on a plane or rounded up and put on a plane. Either way they leave Japan".
This from someone with firsthand experience.

There is no place on the application for religion to be listed.

You are correct.
Funny thing is when the applicant lists where he is currently living and for how long and it happens to be a majority muslim country and the applicant's name starts with 'Muhammad' and the jobs and scientific/technical training he has were in majority muslim countries those smart Japanese have a way of putting two and two together.
Bottom line is dear the Japanese people detest muslims and negroes equally.
Consequently there are no drug infested violent negro or muslim or negro ghettos in Japan.
The Japanese look at what's happening wherever these groups of people live and smile to themselves.
Japanese people to the rest of the world: "You all can have our share of the sub-humans".

Coyote historically believes that members of different races are more stupid than she is. So she can't conceive of any Japanese official noticing Mohammad's religion if it isn't put on a piece of paper and pushed under his nose. And probably not even then.

Her entire belief system is based entirely on what people tell her she should believe. No facts can penetrate her bubble, because she truly doesn't believe anything unless it's fed to her by sources that she has been told are inviolate. She could see (and undoubtedly has watched) a guy get his head sawed off by a muslim screaming he's doing it for Islam and Allah, and she will maintain the guy's religion has nothing to do with it. She can see a thousand of those, and still insist that we should welcome muslims into our country because they don't pose a threat.

Because that is what her handlers tell her to believe. And her handlers are the ones who want heads sawn off and children butchered.

You are going to discuss Coyote's supposed bigotry with someone who describes Muslims as 'sand-monkeys'?

 

[dannyboys]

Mordecai Kedar is the same person who wrote that initial article (and he's associated with Pam Gellar) - you are simply repeating the same source here, nothing new.

That's one thing. And secondly - did you even READ the article you quoted? Here's the relevant portion:

Japan


In a country where nationals favor a racially unique and homogenous society, the foreign population accounted for only 1.7 percent of the total population in 2010, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Japan's strict immigration—or, rather, anti-immigration—policies have drawn heavy criticism.


Like Canada, Japan is facing a rapidly declining population in which the low birthrate can barely match the death rate of the country's senior citizens. The population now sits at 128 million, but analysts estimate the number will have shrunk by a third in 2060, forcing the country to embrace more open policies.


Following the examples of Canada and the United Kingdom, Japan rolled out a new point-based system last spring to rate immigrants. Immigrants earn points based on their academic background and research or business experience, among other factors. Those who score higher—mainly professionals like professors, doctors, and corporate managers—will be given preferential treatment.​

No where in it, or in the articles it links to does it say anything about Muslims - nada. What it says is what is already widely known, Japan is very anti-foreigner, and always has been and that applies all foreigners.

It was a nice try, but you should read your sources first before making youself look any more like an idiot then you are.

Snopes CEO Arrested on Fraud, Corruption Charges-Fiction!

The Truth:


Barbara and David Mikkelson have not been arrested on fraud and corruption charges.


A fake news website called The People’s Cube started that rumor with a story that appeared under the headline, “Snopes.com CEO arrested on charges of fraud and corruption.” According to the report:

...The story goes that police followed a paper trail to Barbara and David Mikkelson after a Snopes editor lashed out a flea market vendor in Los Angeles for playing the song “Dixie’s Land” because of its ties to the Confederacy and Old South.


The story was shared thousands of times, but it’s a work of fiction.​

The People’s Cube describes itself as a People’s Political Humor and Satire Collective, among other things.​

Actually...at this point...I don't think it's possible for you to look any more like an idiot. Kudos on an unprecedented accomplishment.

My brother-in-law, a university professor in Canada spent a number of years working in Japan until recently.
Part of his work was to sit on a board of Japanese immigration gov. officials tasked with administering the 'point system' and accepting or rejecting applications from potential immigrants.
He was on the board as a Canadian adviser.
I phoned him when this thread got into Japanese/muslim immigration.
To paraphrase when asked about whether the Japanese immigration officials were allowing muslims to immigrate: "There are a number a factors which 100% guaranteed the applicant would never be considered.
Criminal records in country of origin obviously is one. If the applicant lists their religion as 'muslim' the application is literally shredded on the spot. There are also certain countries that the Japanese gov. will never accept immigrants from no matter how highly qualified the applicant is.
The Japanese gov. never gives any reason for denying an application.
In the case of being a muslim there are always hundreds of applicants with as high or higher qualifications to choose from. Muslims and negroes are considered by the Japanese to be 'dirty' and 'violent'. (Those Japanese know their stuff when it comes to judging people.)
If the gov. decides it needs specific science and technological expertise and say a muslim has it the gov. MAY issue a 'guest worker visa' for a specific amount of time (until the expert has basically taught the japanese scientists all he knows.) The day the visa expires the 'guest worker' is on a plane or rounded up and put on a plane. Either way they leave Japan".
This from someone with firsthand experience.

There is no place on the application for religion to be listed.

You are correct.
Funny thing is when the applicant lists where he is currently living and for how long and it happens to be a majority muslim country and the applicant's name starts with 'Muhammad' and the jobs and scientific/technical training he has were in majority muslim countries those smart Japanese have a way of putting two and two together.
Bottom line is dear the Japanese people detest muslims and negroes equally.
Consequently there are no drug infested violent negro or muslim or negro ghettos in Japan.
The Japanese look at what's happening wherever these groups of people live and smile to themselves.
Japanese people to the rest of the world: "You all can have our share of the sub-humans".

Coyote historically believes that members of different races are more stupid than she is. So she can't conceive of any Japanese official noticing Mohammad's religion if it isn't put on a piece of paper and pushed under his nose. And probably not even then.

Her entire belief system is based entirely on what people tell her she should believe. No facts can penetrate her bubble, because she truly doesn't believe anything unless it's fed to her by sources that she has been told are inviolate. She could see (and undoubtedly has watched) a guy get his head sawed off by a muslim screaming he's doing it for Islam and Allah, and she will maintain the guy's religion has nothing to do with it. She can see a thousand of those, and still insist that we should welcome muslims into our country because they don't pose a threat.

Because that is what her handlers tell her to believe. And her handlers are the ones who want heads sawn off and children butchered.

You are going to discuss Coyote's supposed bigotry with someone who describes Muslims as 'sand-monkeys'?

Make sure to invite a couple of muslims to your next Christmas party.

 

[koshergrl]

Coyote will employ ad hom as she always does with the facts and good sources.

What "facts" and "good sources"? One article by Kedar, who's claims have been debunked? Oh...how about your fake news article about Snopes? Complaints about ad hom....coming from YOU?

You didn't debunk anything, liar.

Yes, Kedar (not debunked) National Geographic and the Japan Times.

Pretty good sources. None debunked.

What did you have? Oh yeah...SNOPES.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a tard.

You just hate Kedar because he's Jewish, but he's a stellar source:

"Kedar is an academic on the Israeli Arab population. He served for twenty-five years in IDF Military Intelligence, where he specialized in Islamic groups, the political discourse of Arab countries, the Arabic press and mass media, and the Syrian domestic arena."

Mordechai Kedar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Japan Times:

"The Japan Times was launched by Motosada Zumoto on March 22, 1897, with the goal of giving Japanese an opportunity to read and discuss news and current events in English in order to help Japan to participate more fully in the international community."

Also an excellent source.

The Japan Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then the National Geographic...lol...

"Occasionally an entire month's issue would be devoted to a single country, past civilization, a natural resource whose future is endangered, or other theme."

National Geographic (magazine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What information from which of those sources do you claim has been "debunked"?

Neither the Japan Times article nor the National Geographic article say anything about Muslims. They talk about Japan's tendency to make it difficult for any foreigner to immigrate. Has Coyote disagreed that Japan makes it difficult for all foreigners to immigrate?

I'm sorry, we've been over this before. The discussion is about why Japan doesn't have a muslim problem, and that is why. I'm sorry your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

And, as we've been over before, no one seems to disagree that Japan doesn't allow a lot of immigration from anyone. The points of contention are the assertions, some of which you have made, that Japan specifically targets Muslims to keep them out. Those are the kinds of assertions made in the Kedar article, which is what Coyote said has been debunked, not the National Geographic or Japan Times articles.

I'm sorry if your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

The proof that they find muslims less desirable than, say, Americans, is in the MINISCULE number of muslims that they allow into the country.
Again, it's silly that you are making me point this out. This is basic stuff.

 

[koshergrl]

Mordecai Kedar is the same person who wrote that initial article (and he's associated with Pam Gellar) - you are simply repeating the same source here, nothing new.

That's one thing. And secondly - did you even READ the article you quoted? Here's the relevant portion:

Japan


In a country where nationals favor a racially unique and homogenous society, the foreign population accounted for only 1.7 percent of the total population in 2010, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Japan's strict immigration—or, rather, anti-immigration—policies have drawn heavy criticism.


Like Canada, Japan is facing a rapidly declining population in which the low birthrate can barely match the death rate of the country's senior citizens. The population now sits at 128 million, but analysts estimate the number will have shrunk by a third in 2060, forcing the country to embrace more open policies.


Following the examples of Canada and the United Kingdom, Japan rolled out a new point-based system last spring to rate immigrants. Immigrants earn points based on their academic background and research or business experience, among other factors. Those who score higher—mainly professionals like professors, doctors, and corporate managers—will be given preferential treatment.​

No where in it, or in the articles it links to does it say anything about Muslims - nada. What it says is what is already widely known, Japan is very anti-foreigner, and always has been and that applies all foreigners.

It was a nice try, but you should read your sources first before making youself look any more like an idiot then you are.

Snopes CEO Arrested on Fraud, Corruption Charges-Fiction!

The Truth:


Barbara and David Mikkelson have not been arrested on fraud and corruption charges.


A fake news website called The People’s Cube started that rumor with a story that appeared under the headline, “Snopes.com CEO arrested on charges of fraud and corruption.” According to the report:

...The story goes that police followed a paper trail to Barbara and David Mikkelson after a Snopes editor lashed out a flea market vendor in Los Angeles for playing the song “Dixie’s Land” because of its ties to the Confederacy and Old South.


The story was shared thousands of times, but it’s a work of fiction.​

The People’s Cube describes itself as a People’s Political Humor and Satire Collective, among other things.​

Actually...at this point...I don't think it's possible for you to look any more like an idiot. Kudos on an unprecedented accomplishment.

My brother-in-law, a university professor in Canada spent a number of years working in Japan until recently.
Part of his work was to sit on a board of Japanese immigration gov. officials tasked with administering the 'point system' and accepting or rejecting applications from potential immigrants.
He was on the board as a Canadian adviser.
I phoned him when this thread got into Japanese/muslim immigration.
To paraphrase when asked about whether the Japanese immigration officials were allowing muslims to immigrate: "There are a number a factors which 100% guaranteed the applicant would never be considered.
Criminal records in country of origin obviously is one. If the applicant lists their religion as 'muslim' the application is literally shredded on the spot. There are also certain countries that the Japanese gov. will never accept immigrants from no matter how highly qualified the applicant is.
The Japanese gov. never gives any reason for denying an application.
In the case of being a muslim there are always hundreds of applicants with as high or higher qualifications to choose from. Muslims and negroes are considered by the Japanese to be 'dirty' and 'violent'. (Those Japanese know their stuff when it comes to judging people.)
If the gov. decides it needs specific science and technological expertise and say a muslim has it the gov. MAY issue a 'guest worker visa' for a specific amount of time (until the expert has basically taught the japanese scientists all he knows.) The day the visa expires the 'guest worker' is on a plane or rounded up and put on a plane. Either way they leave Japan".
This from someone with firsthand experience.

There is no place on the application for religion to be listed.

You are correct.
Funny thing is when the applicant lists where he is currently living and for how long and it happens to be a majority muslim country and the applicant's name starts with 'Muhammad' and the jobs and scientific/technical training he has were in majority muslim countries those smart Japanese have a way of putting two and two together.
Bottom line is dear the Japanese people detest muslims and negroes equally.
Consequently there are no drug infested violent negro or muslim or negro ghettos in Japan.
The Japanese look at what's happening wherever these groups of people live and smile to themselves.
Japanese people to the rest of the world: "You all can have our share of the sub-humans".

Coyote historically believes that members of different races are more stupid than she is. So she can't conceive of any Japanese official noticing Mohammad's religion if it isn't put on a piece of paper and pushed under his nose. And probably not even then.

Her entire belief system is based entirely on what people tell her she should believe. No facts can penetrate her bubble, because she truly doesn't believe anything unless it's fed to her by sources that she has been told are inviolate. She could see (and undoubtedly has watched) a guy get his head sawed off by a muslim screaming he's doing it for Islam and Allah, and she will maintain the guy's religion has nothing to do with it. She can see a thousand of those, and still insist that we should welcome muslims into our country because they don't pose a threat.

Because that is what her handlers tell her to believe. And her handlers are the ones who want heads sawn off and children butchered.

You are going to discuss Coyote's supposed bigotry with someone who describes Muslims as 'sand-monkeys'?

It's a study in hypocrisy. One side openly admits their aversion, while the other side hides, lies and obfuscates but hates nonetheless.

 

[Montrovant]

My brother-in-law, a university professor in Canada spent a number of years working in Japan until recently.
Part of his work was to sit on a board of Japanese immigration gov. officials tasked with administering the 'point system' and accepting or rejecting applications from potential immigrants.
He was on the board as a Canadian adviser.
I phoned him when this thread got into Japanese/muslim immigration.
To paraphrase when asked about whether the Japanese immigration officials were allowing muslims to immigrate: "There are a number a factors which 100% guaranteed the applicant would never be considered.
Criminal records in country of origin obviously is one. If the applicant lists their religion as 'muslim' the application is literally shredded on the spot. There are also certain countries that the Japanese gov. will never accept immigrants from no matter how highly qualified the applicant is.
The Japanese gov. never gives any reason for denying an application.
In the case of being a muslim there are always hundreds of applicants with as high or higher qualifications to choose from. Muslims and negroes are considered by the Japanese to be 'dirty' and 'violent'. (Those Japanese know their stuff when it comes to judging people.)
If the gov. decides it needs specific science and technological expertise and say a muslim has it the gov. MAY issue a 'guest worker visa' for a specific amount of time (until the expert has basically taught the japanese scientists all he knows.) The day the visa expires the 'guest worker' is on a plane or rounded up and put on a plane. Either way they leave Japan".
This from someone with firsthand experience.

There is no place on the application for religion to be listed.

You are correct.
Funny thing is when the applicant lists where he is currently living and for how long and it happens to be a majority muslim country and the applicant's name starts with 'Muhammad' and the jobs and scientific/technical training he has were in majority muslim countries those smart Japanese have a way of putting two and two together.
Bottom line is dear the Japanese people detest muslims and negroes equally.
Consequently there are no drug infested violent negro or muslim or negro ghettos in Japan.
The Japanese look at what's happening wherever these groups of people live and smile to themselves.
Japanese people to the rest of the world: "You all can have our share of the sub-humans".

Coyote historically believes that members of different races are more stupid than she is. So she can't conceive of any Japanese official noticing Mohammad's religion if it isn't put on a piece of paper and pushed under his nose. And probably not even then.

Her entire belief system is based entirely on what people tell her she should believe. No facts can penetrate her bubble, because she truly doesn't believe anything unless it's fed to her by sources that she has been told are inviolate. She could see (and undoubtedly has watched) a guy get his head sawed off by a muslim screaming he's doing it for Islam and Allah, and she will maintain the guy's religion has nothing to do with it. She can see a thousand of those, and still insist that we should welcome muslims into our country because they don't pose a threat.

Because that is what her handlers tell her to believe. And her handlers are the ones who want heads sawn off and children butchered.

You are going to discuss Coyote's supposed bigotry with someone who describes Muslims as 'sand-monkeys'?

It's a study in hypocrisy. One side openly admits their aversion, while the other side hides, lies and obfuscates but hates nonetheless.

But everyone is a hateful bigot? Or are there other sides?

 

[Montrovant]

What "facts" and "good sources"? One article by Kedar, who's claims have been debunked? Oh...how about your fake news article about Snopes? Complaints about ad hom....coming from YOU?

You didn't debunk anything, liar.

Yes, Kedar (not debunked) National Geographic and the Japan Times.

Pretty good sources. None debunked.

What did you have? Oh yeah...SNOPES.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a tard.

You just hate Kedar because he's Jewish, but he's a stellar source:

"Kedar is an academic on the Israeli Arab population. He served for twenty-five years in IDF Military Intelligence, where he specialized in Islamic groups, the political discourse of Arab countries, the Arabic press and mass media, and the Syrian domestic arena."

Mordechai Kedar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Japan Times:

"The Japan Times was launched by Motosada Zumoto on March 22, 1897, with the goal of giving Japanese an opportunity to read and discuss news and current events in English in order to help Japan to participate more fully in the international community."

Also an excellent source.

The Japan Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then the National Geographic...lol...

"Occasionally an entire month's issue would be devoted to a single country, past civilization, a natural resource whose future is endangered, or other theme."

National Geographic (magazine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What information from which of those sources do you claim has been "debunked"?

Neither the Japan Times article nor the National Geographic article say anything about Muslims. They talk about Japan's tendency to make it difficult for any foreigner to immigrate. Has Coyote disagreed that Japan makes it difficult for all foreigners to immigrate?

I'm sorry, we've been over this before. The discussion is about why Japan doesn't have a muslim problem, and that is why. I'm sorry your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

And, as we've been over before, no one seems to disagree that Japan doesn't allow a lot of immigration from anyone. The points of contention are the assertions, some of which you have made, that Japan specifically targets Muslims to keep them out. Those are the kinds of assertions made in the Kedar article, which is what Coyote said has been debunked, not the National Geographic or Japan Times articles.

I'm sorry if your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

The proof that they find muslims less desirable than, say, Americans, is in the MINISCULE number of muslims that they allow into the country.
Again, it's silly that you are making me point this out. This is basic stuff.

I'm not making you point that out. I'm talking about the various claims about laws and official policies which specifically target Muslims (or Arabs) and prevent them or hinder them from immigrating to Japan. Why do you continue to go back and forth with them? Is it that Japan has laws and policies specifically designed to keep out Muslims, or is it just that Japan is culturally anti-Muslim but does not have formal policies about it?

 

[flacaltenn]

The hypocrisy is rich. Fundamentalist Christian women are not oppressed. Not more so than Orthodox Jewish women are. I thought you'd recognize that. Just because they might sit in different sections of the hall does not mean they can't be citizens with equal rights or that their religious responsibilities are limited. Thought you'd know that Ortho Jew women pretty much run the religious practice in the home. And that they are encouraged to study and learn..

There's "leftist" oppression -- and then there's clit removal, denial of education, subservience and approved spousal abuse.

That DOES occur among Christians and the more fundamentalist the faith, the more the woman is likely to be subservient. How often do you suppose verses like these are used to justify wife beating?

"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Ephesians 5:22-23

11 Countries with the hightest rates of domestic violence:
Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Somalia, Mali, Guatamalia, Sudan, Congo, Afghanistan and topping the list - Chad.

Progressive countries have laws against domestic abuse and ways to help women report it and get out of it and an overall culture that condemns it, regardless of religion. In any of the fundamentalist sects of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism women are scriptually subordinate and the potential for abuse is much higher because of religious beliefs.

FGM also crosses religious boundaries because it's a cultural thing more than it's a religious thing. In those parts of the world where it is still practiced - it is practiced by all faiths as part of their culture.

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

 

[Montrovant]

My brother-in-law, a university professor in Canada spent a number of years working in Japan until recently.
Part of his work was to sit on a board of Japanese immigration gov. officials tasked with administering the 'point system' and accepting or rejecting applications from potential immigrants.
He was on the board as a Canadian adviser.
I phoned him when this thread got into Japanese/muslim immigration.
To paraphrase when asked about whether the Japanese immigration officials were allowing muslims to immigrate: "There are a number a factors which 100% guaranteed the applicant would never be considered.
Criminal records in country of origin obviously is one. If the applicant lists their religion as 'muslim' the application is literally shredded on the spot. There are also certain countries that the Japanese gov. will never accept immigrants from no matter how highly qualified the applicant is.
The Japanese gov. never gives any reason for denying an application.
In the case of being a muslim there are always hundreds of applicants with as high or higher qualifications to choose from. Muslims and negroes are considered by the Japanese to be 'dirty' and 'violent'. (Those Japanese know their stuff when it comes to judging people.)
If the gov. decides it needs specific science and technological expertise and say a muslim has it the gov. MAY issue a 'guest worker visa' for a specific amount of time (until the expert has basically taught the japanese scientists all he knows.) The day the visa expires the 'guest worker' is on a plane or rounded up and put on a plane. Either way they leave Japan".
This from someone with firsthand experience.

There is no place on the application for religion to be listed.

You are correct.
Funny thing is when the applicant lists where he is currently living and for how long and it happens to be a majority muslim country and the applicant's name starts with 'Muhammad' and the jobs and scientific/technical training he has were in majority muslim countries those smart Japanese have a way of putting two and two together.
Bottom line is dear the Japanese people detest muslims and negroes equally.
Consequently there are no drug infested violent negro or muslim or negro ghettos in Japan.
The Japanese look at what's happening wherever these groups of people live and smile to themselves.
Japanese people to the rest of the world: "You all can have our share of the sub-humans".

Coyote historically believes that members of different races are more stupid than she is. So she can't conceive of any Japanese official noticing Mohammad's religion if it isn't put on a piece of paper and pushed under his nose. And probably not even then.

Her entire belief system is based entirely on what people tell her she should believe. No facts can penetrate her bubble, because she truly doesn't believe anything unless it's fed to her by sources that she has been told are inviolate. She could see (and undoubtedly has watched) a guy get his head sawed off by a muslim screaming he's doing it for Islam and Allah, and she will maintain the guy's religion has nothing to do with it. She can see a thousand of those, and still insist that we should welcome muslims into our country because they don't pose a threat.

Because that is what her handlers tell her to believe. And her handlers are the ones who want heads sawn off and children butchered.

You are going to discuss Coyote's supposed bigotry with someone who describes Muslims as 'sand-monkeys'?

Make sure to invite a couple of muslims to your next Christmas party.

I don't throw Christmas parties, and the Muslims I know don't live nearby, but if I did throw such a party and my Muslim acquaintances lived close to me, I'd be happy to invite them.

I don't know what any of that has to do with your describing Muslims as 'sand-monkeys', though.

 

[flacaltenn]

An apology should be issued by the government, and restititution should be the same as it was for the Japanese-Americans interned. It should apply for any German-American still alive, that was interned.

Then any restitution for other atrocities to other minorities should only apply if they were alive at the time the atrocity occurred.

Absolutely. Restitution should only be made to the living survivors. That's why I oppose any idea of restitution for slavery - what a can of worms that would be.

Why not? Why is no one pushing for this? Usually, these things happen because there is a group dedicated to a particular cause - for example, War Dog Memorial, and recognizing the contributions of war dogs. It took a concerted effort by primarily Vietnam era vets to finally accomplish this. So really, why aren't they pushing for some sort of recognition - that's where it starts.

I'm working on gaining that support so such a memorial can be built.

If you think it's important, then fight for it. That's how these things get done - someone fights for it. Sounds like you have a problem with recognizing the achievements of minorities in a history largely filled with the achievements of white males.

No. You appear to have a problem believing that those 'white males', as you say, are composed of many minority groupings.

Otherwise you wouldn't pointedly call them just achievements of 'white males', while doggedly fighting for the rights of white Muslims and white Hispanics which you call some sort of special minority groups instead of what they really are... Just another couple groupings of frakking white people who deserve no more consideration than any other white person if we consider them the way you consider other white people.

If minority consideration is the rule instead then all the WOPs, Spics, Poles, Brits, Argots, Germs, Franks, Ruskies, Cossacks, Scots, Limeys, Oirish, etc,... should be considered minority groups and be allowed to lobby for money for their respective minority groupings too.

Actually, I don't think you really *know* what I think. You've already assigned a label without having do do much reading - imagine that . History, as I was taught years ago in school - was primarily based on the explorations and discoveries of white males. That is what we learned. There was an itty bitty bit on black contributions - all I recall is George Washington Carver - nothing about women, despite the fact that women kept extensive diaries about their experiences and accomplished quite a lot.

*****CHUCKLE*****

IF all those other groups want to try to be considered "minority" groups - they're free to lobby for it, who said they can't? You seem rather resentful of "minorities"

I'm not sure if you realize it...but there ARE "special" interest groups and political lobbies for many of these people you think are unrepresented...in fact there are TWO for German Americans

• Albanian American Civic League (Albanians)
• American Hellenic Institute Public Affairs Committee (Greeks)
• American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Israelis)
• American Jewish Committee (American Jews)
• Ancient Order of Hibernians (Irish)
• Anti-Defamation League (American Jews)
• Armenian Assembly of America (Armenians)
• Armenian National Committee of America (Armenians)
• Cuban-American National Foundation (Cubans)
• English-Speaking Union (Anglo-Americans of British origin)
• German-American Heritage Foundation of the USA (Germans)
• German American National Congress (Germans)
• League of the South (Anglo-Americans of Southern USA origin)
• League of United Latin American Citizens (Hispanics/Latinos)
• Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (Mexicans)
• National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (African Americans)
• National Association of Arab-Americans (Arabs)
• National Congress of American Indians (Native Americans)
• National Italian American Foundation (Italians)
• Serbian Unity Congress (Serbs)
• Sons of Norway (Norwegians)
• TransAfrica (Africans)
• Turkish Coalition of America (Turks)
• United Macedonian Diaspora (Macedonians)

I worked extensively in Germany in the 90s. Couple weeks a month. Brought my 1st wife with me on trips. She being "more Jewish" than me --- told me how uncomfortable it was to have STRANGERS apologizing to her just on the basis of her last name about the exterminations. In social settings, the entire German group would reel off the list of what Germans had done to set things straight. A bit TOO apologetic.

In the meantime -- we visited the German Naval memorial in Kiel and others like that. And saw the displays of the of lost ships and lives that were suffered in that war. Shed a tear or 2 for the "Nazis". When you see the walls of 4 story building covered with sunken ships and #s lost --- There's enough remorse there. I don't want to see them OVER compensate -- like they seem to being now with over generous immigration from sketchy areas. To the effect of jeopardizing their OWN lives and country.

So that even TODAY -- one of those helpless UAM orphans took an axe and an knife to strangers on a German train yelling Allluhu Ahkbar.. And another Jr Jihadist in France YESTERDAY did the same to scantily clad youngsters in a park..

 

[Coyote]

What "facts" and "good sources"? One article by Kedar, who's claims have been debunked? Oh...how about your fake news article about Snopes? Complaints about ad hom....coming from YOU?

You didn't debunk anything, liar.

Yes, Kedar (not debunked) National Geographic and the Japan Times.

Pretty good sources. None debunked.

What did you have? Oh yeah...SNOPES.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a tard.

You just hate Kedar because he's Jewish, but he's a stellar source:

"Kedar is an academic on the Israeli Arab population. He served for twenty-five years in IDF Military Intelligence, where he specialized in Islamic groups, the political discourse of Arab countries, the Arabic press and mass media, and the Syrian domestic arena."

Mordechai Kedar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Japan Times:

"The Japan Times was launched by Motosada Zumoto on March 22, 1897, with the goal of giving Japanese an opportunity to read and discuss news and current events in English in order to help Japan to participate more fully in the international community."

Also an excellent source.

The Japan Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then the National Geographic...lol...

"Occasionally an entire month's issue would be devoted to a single country, past civilization, a natural resource whose future is endangered, or other theme."

National Geographic (magazine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What information from which of those sources do you claim has been "debunked"?

Neither the Japan Times article nor the National Geographic article say anything about Muslims. They talk about Japan's tendency to make it difficult for any foreigner to immigrate. Has Coyote disagreed that Japan makes it difficult for all foreigners to immigrate?

I'm sorry, we've been over this before. The discussion is about why Japan doesn't have a muslim problem, and that is why. I'm sorry your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

And, as we've been over before, no one seems to disagree that Japan doesn't allow a lot of immigration from anyone. The points of contention are the assertions, some of which you have made, that Japan specifically targets Muslims to keep them out. Those are the kinds of assertions made in the Kedar article, which is what Coyote said has been debunked, not the National Geographic or Japan Times articles.

I'm sorry if your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

The proof that they find muslims less desirable than, say, Americans, is in the MINISCULE number of muslims that they allow into the country.
Again, it's silly that you are making me point this out. This is basic stuff.

Again - you are offering NO data whatsoever supporting your claim since you have no idea how many muslims even apply to enter and - did you forget this part - religion isn't even on any of the forms.

 

[koshergrl]

You didn't debunk anything, liar.

Yes, Kedar (not debunked) National Geographic and the Japan Times.

Pretty good sources. None debunked.

What did you have? Oh yeah...SNOPES.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a tard.

You just hate Kedar because he's Jewish, but he's a stellar source:

"Kedar is an academic on the Israeli Arab population. He served for twenty-five years in IDF Military Intelligence, where he specialized in Islamic groups, the political discourse of Arab countries, the Arabic press and mass media, and the Syrian domestic arena."

Mordechai Kedar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Japan Times:

"The Japan Times was launched by Motosada Zumoto on March 22, 1897, with the goal of giving Japanese an opportunity to read and discuss news and current events in English in order to help Japan to participate more fully in the international community."

Also an excellent source.

The Japan Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then the National Geographic...lol...

"Occasionally an entire month's issue would be devoted to a single country, past civilization, a natural resource whose future is endangered, or other theme."

National Geographic (magazine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What information from which of those sources do you claim has been "debunked"?

Neither the Japan Times article nor the National Geographic article say anything about Muslims. They talk about Japan's tendency to make it difficult for any foreigner to immigrate. Has Coyote disagreed that Japan makes it difficult for all foreigners to immigrate?

I'm sorry, we've been over this before. The discussion is about why Japan doesn't have a muslim problem, and that is why. I'm sorry your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

And, as we've been over before, no one seems to disagree that Japan doesn't allow a lot of immigration from anyone. The points of contention are the assertions, some of which you have made, that Japan specifically targets Muslims to keep them out. Those are the kinds of assertions made in the Kedar article, which is what Coyote said has been debunked, not the National Geographic or Japan Times articles.

I'm sorry if your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

The proof that they find muslims less desirable than, say, Americans, is in the MINISCULE number of muslims that they allow into the country.
Again, it's silly that you are making me point this out. This is basic stuff.

Again - you are offering NO data whatsoever supporting your claim since you have no idea how many muslims even apply to enter and - did you forget this part - religion isn't even on any of the forms.

All of that has been addressed. You need more.time to process, perhaps.

 

[Coyote]

That DOES occur among Christians and the more fundamentalist the faith, the more the woman is likely to be subservient. How often do you suppose verses like these are used to justify wife beating?

"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Ephesians 5:22-23

11 Countries with the hightest rates of domestic violence:
Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Somalia, Mali, Guatamalia, Sudan, Congo, Afghanistan and topping the list - Chad.

Progressive countries have laws against domestic abuse and ways to help women report it and get out of it and an overall culture that condemns it, regardless of religion. In any of the fundamentalist sects of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism women are scriptually subordinate and the potential for abuse is much higher because of religious beliefs.

FGM also crosses religious boundaries because it's a cultural thing more than it's a religious thing. In those parts of the world where it is still practiced - it is practiced by all faiths as part of their culture.

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

I see the misogeny label routinely applied to Islam - even in western countries. That's one of the things that bothers me. Take for example wearing a hajib - not a burkha - a simple headscarf. If a muslim woman in a western country chooses to wear it, it gets labeled a symbol of muslim misogeny. As if - because she's Muslim - it's never a free choice but compelled, while her Christian and Jewish sisters do so out of "choice". I think in many of the most conservative sects of these religions there is tremendous community and family pressure to conform and excercising free choice can lead to expulsion from our family, community or religion. Sometimes that pressure can force women into subservient roles or to stay in bad marriages or worse - to accept blame for domestic violence because of religious beliefs. That's when it can be misogenist in nature and it occurs among Christians and Jews, it's just not widely publicized.

 

[Coyote]

Neither the Japan Times article nor the National Geographic article say anything about Muslims. They talk about Japan's tendency to make it difficult for any foreigner to immigrate. Has Coyote disagreed that Japan makes it difficult for all foreigners to immigrate?

I'm sorry, we've been over this before. The discussion is about why Japan doesn't have a muslim problem, and that is why. I'm sorry your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

And, as we've been over before, no one seems to disagree that Japan doesn't allow a lot of immigration from anyone. The points of contention are the assertions, some of which you have made, that Japan specifically targets Muslims to keep them out. Those are the kinds of assertions made in the Kedar article, which is what Coyote said has been debunked, not the National Geographic or Japan Times articles.

I'm sorry if your mind isn't developed enough to grasp that, but it isn't my problem.

The proof that they find muslims less desirable than, say, Americans, is in the MINISCULE number of muslims that they allow into the country.
Again, it's silly that you are making me point this out. This is basic stuff.

Again - you are offering NO data whatsoever supporting your claim since you have no idea how many muslims even apply to enter and - did you forget this part - religion isn't even on any of the forms.

All of that has been addressed. You need more.time to process, perhaps.

Suggestion: "Because I say so" isn't a reputable source.

 

[jillian]

That DOES occur among Christians and the more fundamentalist the faith, the more the woman is likely to be subservient. How often do you suppose verses like these are used to justify wife beating?

"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Ephesians 5:22-23

11 Countries with the hightest rates of domestic violence:
Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Somalia, Mali, Guatamalia, Sudan, Congo, Afghanistan and topping the list - Chad.

Progressive countries have laws against domestic abuse and ways to help women report it and get out of it and an overall culture that condemns it, regardless of religion. In any of the fundamentalist sects of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism women are scriptually subordinate and the potential for abuse is much higher because of religious beliefs.

FGM also crosses religious boundaries because it's a cultural thing more than it's a religious thing. In those parts of the world where it is still practiced - it is practiced by all faiths as part of their culture.

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

but we are a largely secular country, so the homicide rate would have very little to do with religion

true. but there have been assassinations (like dr till) and bombings (like Atlanta) and mass shootings like the one at planned parenthood,. I don't think I've ever suggested that solving the problem of terrorism (muslim, Christian or otherwise) would solve the problem of murders in this country.

 

[jillian]

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

I see the misogeny label routinely applied to Islam - even in western countries. That's one of the things that bothers me. Take for example wearing a hajib - not a burkha - a simple headscarf. If a muslim woman in a western country chooses to wear it, it gets labeled a symbol of muslim misogeny. As if - because she's Muslim - it's never a free choice but compelled, while her Christian and Jewish sisters do so out of "choice". I think in many of the most conservative sects of these religions there is tremendous community and family pressure to conform and excercising free choice can lead to expulsion from our family, community or religion. Sometimes that pressure can force women into subservient roles or to stay in bad marriages or worse - to accept blame for domestic violence because of religious beliefs. That's when it can be misogenist in nature and it occurs among Christians and Jews, it's just not widely publicized.

misogyny is part of most fundamentalist belief systems. the difference is jews and Christians don't throw acid in the face of women for going to school.

 

[jillian]

That DOES occur among Christians and the more fundamentalist the faith, the more the woman is likely to be subservient. How often do you suppose verses like these are used to justify wife beating?

"To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Ephesians 5:22-23

11 Countries with the hightest rates of domestic violence:
Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Somalia, Mali, Guatamalia, Sudan, Congo, Afghanistan and topping the list - Chad.

Progressive countries have laws against domestic abuse and ways to help women report it and get out of it and an overall culture that condemns it, regardless of religion. In any of the fundamentalist sects of Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Hinduism women are scriptually subordinate and the potential for abuse is much higher because of religious beliefs.

FGM also crosses religious boundaries because it's a cultural thing more than it's a religious thing. In those parts of the world where it is still practiced - it is practiced by all faiths as part of their culture.

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

you know, when I have to sit behind a curtain in an orthodox service, it isn't political to me. it's religious.

 

[Coyote]

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

I see the misogeny label routinely applied to Islam - even in western countries. That's one of the things that bothers me. Take for example wearing a hajib - not a burkha - a simple headscarf. If a muslim woman in a western country chooses to wear it, it gets labeled a symbol of muslim misogeny. As if - because she's Muslim - it's never a free choice but compelled, while her Christian and Jewish sisters do so out of "choice". I think in many of the most conservative sects of these religions there is tremendous community and family pressure to conform and excercising free choice can lead to expulsion from our family, community or religion. Sometimes that pressure can force women into subservient roles or to stay in bad marriages or worse - to accept blame for domestic violence because of religious beliefs. That's when it can be misogenist in nature and it occurs among Christians and Jews, it's just not widely publicized.

misogyny is part of most fundamentalist belief systems. the difference is jews and Christians don't throw acid in the face of women for going to school.

No...they do it for other reasons...that somehow sound the same.

Acid attacks rising in Colombia

A cheap and quick way of destroying a woman’s life, acid attacks in India, Afghanistan and Bangladesh have received widespread attention in recent years, with a documentary about victims in Pakistan winning an Oscar this year. While the gruesome assaults have been rare in the West, a rising number of attacks in Colombia has alarmed prosecutors and public health officials and terrified women. Dozens of such attacks, in which assailants soak their victims with sulfuric or nitric acids, are believed to take place here each year.

The precise reason for the spike here — and not in, say, neighboring Peru — is not known. But women’s rights advocates in Colombia talk about an epidemic of violence against women, from spouse-battering cases so extreme that they make the nightly news to reports of illegal armed groups using rape as a weapon in a murky rural conflict.


“Sometimes in the West we make fast judgments and say, ‘Look how terrible they treat women in the East,’ and we don’t look first at ourselves,” said Monica Roa, the Bogota-based international programs director of Women’s Link Worldwide, a rights group. “The violence here may be different, but it emanates from the same place. This is a culture where machismo reigns, where men do what they want to do.”


If a woman is attacked over a dowry in India or because she ventured outside without a veil in Pakistan, in Colombia a woman might be attacked because of sheer rage over her independence or even by a disturbed man she doesn’t know. ​

That’s what happened in 2004 to Maria Cuervo when a complete stranger shouted, “This is so you don’t think you’re so pretty” and drenched her face with acid.​

Colombia cracks down on a horrific wave of acid attacks against women

Experts believe the root of Colombia’s problem lies in a dangerous cocktail of misogynistic attitudes ingrained in mainstream culture and high levels of violence following a half-century civil war that killed more than 200,000. That conflict is only coming to an end now through painfully slow peace talks between the government and the armed Marxist rebels of the group known as FARC.

One obvious historic marker of the country’s patriarchal culture is that women did not get the right to vote until 1954 — trailing some 20 of Colombia’s regional neighbors in Latin America which had already hit that milestone.

Potes says 87% of Colombia’s acid attack victims are women, while 90% of perpetrators are men. “Usually it is someone from the victim’s inner circle, a husband or the father of her children, who cannot accept being turned down or left,” she says. “The attitude is ‘If I can’t have you, then no one else can either.’”
​

So is this somehow less misgonistic?

It never gets into the mainstream news either.

 

[jillian]

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

I see the misogeny label routinely applied to Islam - even in western countries. That's one of the things that bothers me. Take for example wearing a hajib - not a burkha - a simple headscarf. If a muslim woman in a western country chooses to wear it, it gets labeled a symbol of muslim misogeny. As if - because she's Muslim - it's never a free choice but compelled, while her Christian and Jewish sisters do so out of "choice". I think in many of the most conservative sects of these religions there is tremendous community and family pressure to conform and excercising free choice can lead to expulsion from our family, community or religion. Sometimes that pressure can force women into subservient roles or to stay in bad marriages or worse - to accept blame for domestic violence because of religious beliefs. That's when it can be misogenist in nature and it occurs among Christians and Jews, it's just not widely publicized.

misogyny is part of most fundamentalist belief systems. the difference is jews and Christians don't throw acid in the face of women for going to school.

No...they do it for other reasons...that somehow sound the same.

Acid attacks rising in Colombia

A cheap and quick way of destroying a woman’s life, acid attacks in India, Afghanistan and Bangladesh have received widespread attention in recent years, with a documentary about victims in Pakistan winning an Oscar this year. While the gruesome assaults have been rare in the West, a rising number of attacks in Colombia has alarmed prosecutors and public health officials and terrified women. Dozens of such attacks, in which assailants soak their victims with sulfuric or nitric acids, are believed to take place here each year.

The precise reason for the spike here — and not in, say, neighboring Peru — is not known. But women’s rights advocates in Colombia talk about an epidemic of violence against women, from spouse-battering cases so extreme that they make the nightly news to reports of illegal armed groups using rape as a weapon in a murky rural conflict.


“Sometimes in the West we make fast judgments and say, ‘Look how terrible they treat women in the East,’ and we don’t look first at ourselves,” said Monica Roa, the Bogota-based international programs director of Women’s Link Worldwide, a rights group. “The violence here may be different, but it emanates from the same place. This is a culture where machismo reigns, where men do what they want to do.”


If a woman is attacked over a dowry in India or because she ventured outside without a veil in Pakistan, in Colombia a woman might be attacked because of sheer rage over her independence or even by a disturbed man she doesn’t know. ​

That’s what happened in 2004 to Maria Cuervo when a complete stranger shouted, “This is so you don’t think you’re so pretty” and drenched her face with acid.​

Colombia cracks down on a horrific wave of acid attacks against women

Experts believe the root of Colombia’s problem lies in a dangerous cocktail of misogynistic attitudes ingrained in mainstream culture and high levels of violence following a half-century civil war that killed more than 200,000. That conflict is only coming to an end now through painfully slow peace talks between the government and the armed Marxist rebels of the group known as FARC.

One obvious historic marker of the country’s patriarchal culture is that women did not get the right to vote until 1954 — trailing some 20 of Colombia’s regional neighbors in Latin America which had already hit that milestone.

Potes says 87% of Colombia’s acid attack victims are women, while 90% of perpetrators are men. “Usually it is someone from the victim’s inner circle, a husband or the father of her children, who cannot accept being turned down or left,” she says. “The attitude is ‘If I can’t have you, then no one else can either.’”
​

So is this somehow less misgonistic?

It never gets into the mainstream news either.

we are not talking about attacks in Columbia

Acid Attacks on Women Spread Terror in Iran

Afghanistan: Schoolgirls hurt in acid attack in Herat - CNN.com

 

[Coyote]

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

I see the misogeny label routinely applied to Islam - even in western countries. That's one of the things that bothers me. Take for example wearing a hajib - not a burkha - a simple headscarf. If a muslim woman in a western country chooses to wear it, it gets labeled a symbol of muslim misogeny. As if - because she's Muslim - it's never a free choice but compelled, while her Christian and Jewish sisters do so out of "choice". I think in many of the most conservative sects of these religions there is tremendous community and family pressure to conform and excercising free choice can lead to expulsion from our family, community or religion. Sometimes that pressure can force women into subservient roles or to stay in bad marriages or worse - to accept blame for domestic violence because of religious beliefs. That's when it can be misogenist in nature and it occurs among Christians and Jews, it's just not widely publicized.

misogyny is part of most fundamentalist belief systems. the difference is jews and Christians don't throw acid in the face of women for going to school.

No...they do it for other reasons...that somehow sound the same.

Acid attacks rising in Colombia

A cheap and quick way of destroying a woman’s life, acid attacks in India, Afghanistan and Bangladesh have received widespread attention in recent years, with a documentary about victims in Pakistan winning an Oscar this year. While the gruesome assaults have been rare in the West, a rising number of attacks in Colombia has alarmed prosecutors and public health officials and terrified women. Dozens of such attacks, in which assailants soak their victims with sulfuric or nitric acids, are believed to take place here each year.

The precise reason for the spike here — and not in, say, neighboring Peru — is not known. But women’s rights advocates in Colombia talk about an epidemic of violence against women, from spouse-battering cases so extreme that they make the nightly news to reports of illegal armed groups using rape as a weapon in a murky rural conflict.


“Sometimes in the West we make fast judgments and say, ‘Look how terrible they treat women in the East,’ and we don’t look first at ourselves,” said Monica Roa, the Bogota-based international programs director of Women’s Link Worldwide, a rights group. “The violence here may be different, but it emanates from the same place. This is a culture where machismo reigns, where men do what they want to do.”


If a woman is attacked over a dowry in India or because she ventured outside without a veil in Pakistan, in Colombia a woman might be attacked because of sheer rage over her independence or even by a disturbed man she doesn’t know. ​

That’s what happened in 2004 to Maria Cuervo when a complete stranger shouted, “This is so you don’t think you’re so pretty” and drenched her face with acid.​

Colombia cracks down on a horrific wave of acid attacks against women

Experts believe the root of Colombia’s problem lies in a dangerous cocktail of misogynistic attitudes ingrained in mainstream culture and high levels of violence following a half-century civil war that killed more than 200,000. That conflict is only coming to an end now through painfully slow peace talks between the government and the armed Marxist rebels of the group known as FARC.

One obvious historic marker of the country’s patriarchal culture is that women did not get the right to vote until 1954 — trailing some 20 of Colombia’s regional neighbors in Latin America which had already hit that milestone.

Potes says 87% of Colombia’s acid attack victims are women, while 90% of perpetrators are men. “Usually it is someone from the victim’s inner circle, a husband or the father of her children, who cannot accept being turned down or left,” she says. “The attitude is ‘If I can’t have you, then no one else can either.’”
​

So is this somehow less misgonistic?

It never gets into the mainstream news either.

we are not talking about attacks in Columbia

Acid Attacks on Women Spread Terror in Iran

Afghanistan: Schoolgirls hurt in acid attack in Herat - CNN.com

We talking about religion, mysoginy and acid attacks. We weren't restricting it to the Muslim world until just now apparently.

Columbia has one of the highest rates. It occurs also at high rates in India, among the Hindu - another fiercely chauvinistic culture.

 

[flacaltenn]

And those verses matter HOW -- in the practice of Jewish/Christian life in the Western world? You think all those women on Christian Mingle or JewDate are just looking for abuse and domination? Those biblical passages do not HINDER in any way the power and independence of Western women. You think Golda Meir was "held back" by that Genesis quote?

You are missing the entire KEY to successful WESTERN religious practice.. And that is exactly what I just told you. That those 2 quotes are SUCCESSFULLY interpreted into the modern context of freedom and tolerance. And TODAY mean more about what happens WITHIN a family unit -- then they do about hobbling and hindering feminism. Nothing WRONG with the CHOICE of woman as head of house and family. OR of the religious practice that goes on AT HOME. Even IF -- the religious practice at the worship hall might have them sitting separately.

first...misogyny does not equal abuse. it equals treating women as lesser beings.... you know,, like not letting them read from the torah or be priests.

i don't know what you're arguing but it wasn't the point i was raising. why do you think one has to rape and beat women to be a misogynist?

That whole point has traveled too far to fight over now. You just went off on a Christian for not understanding how religious fundamentalists "repress" women. So I just tried to remind you of the "misogynous culture" of Orthodox Jews. NEITHER case comes CLOSE to the ACTUAL ABUSE of women as practiced in those foreign Muslim dominated lands.

again, i was talking about misogyny..... the major religions, in fundamentalist form, all have that. i will also point out that far more women were killed by abusive men in this country than have been killed by honor killings.

again, that is not to say that women aren't treated in disgusting fashion as a matter of course in Arab countries. But that wasn't the point i was making. It's the one you seem to need for some reason.

I don't even agree that it's misogyny for Ortho Christians and Jews.. But that's another argument. When practiced in tolerant secular societies -- the "misogeny" accusation is a POLITICAL interpretation. Not a religious one. Feminists derided women for choosing a domestic role. And about 2 decades later -- the left wing they were housed in -- were complaining about the resultant economy where TWO parents had to work to survive economically.

I see the misogeny label routinely applied to Islam - even in western countries. That's one of the things that bothers me. Take for example wearing a hajib - not a burkha - a simple headscarf. If a muslim woman in a western country chooses to wear it, it gets labeled a symbol of muslim misogeny. As if - because she's Muslim - it's never a free choice but compelled, while her Christian and Jewish sisters do so out of "choice". I think in many of the most conservative sects of these religions there is tremendous community and family pressure to conform and excercising free choice can lead to expulsion from our family, community or religion. Sometimes that pressure can force women into subservient roles or to stay in bad marriages or worse - to accept blame for domestic violence because of religious beliefs. That's when it can be misogenist in nature and it occurs among Christians and Jews, it's just not widely publicized.

Wearing the burkha or hajib is no more misogyny than any of Christian/Jew practices that you deal out.
That is -- as I said -- an intolerant POLITICAL interpretation of misogyny..

In the West -- rebellion by ANY one ends in a broken family. In Arab or tribal cultures -- it ends in broken bones or loss of life.

But realize -- The French have done most EVERYTHING wrong. THey went after the religious symbols --- including the hajob. Which is NOT religious freedom. And pretty damn stupid.