Time to go public with Soleimani attack intel

[Nostra]

What should the response have been to the attack on our embassy? Specifically, lay out your response.

i wouldn’t pretend to be in the loop enough to be able to develop a response. If I’m spitballing I’d work with the Iraq government and military to break it up. If I wanted to send a message id take out a headquarters, military base or funding source for those responsible

So you want WWIII

No. Do you speak English? Nowhere did I say anything close to that.

You Dimwingers have been claiming that Trump started WWIII since he blew up one guy.............your strategy was blowing up Iranian military bases. How would your strategy not be WWIII, according to the standards you clowns came up with this weekend?

Really? Quote me when I said that. Oh you can’t? Ok. STFU

Ok.

If I’m spitballing I’d work with the Iraq government and military to break it up. If I wanted to send a message id take out a headquarters, military base or funding source for those responsible

 

[Slade3200]

Is that right? Which administration declared war with Iran and when did they do it?

None. THEY have been actively engaged in war with us.

it takes two to tango buddy. War involves two sides fighting and there has been no declaration of war with Iran. There’s been conflict for sure but your misleading by claiming there’s a war with Iran

No, I really am not when they are actively paying and sponsoring terrorist actions against us.

What would you call that?

I would call it that... they are funding groups that we are at war with. That’s different than being at war with Iran.

Sure, and how is that going to change then? Do you think that Iran is going to enter a hot war with us?

Pretty much everyone anywhere agrees that is not going to happen mostly because the leadership in Iran knows full well that will not go very well for them.

Well let’s see what their response is and hope it doesn’t lead to this impossible war.

 

[Slade3200]

i wouldn’t pretend to be in the loop enough to be able to develop a response. If I’m spitballing I’d work with the Iraq government and military to break it up. If I wanted to send a message id take out a headquarters, military base or funding source for those responsible

So you want WWIII

No. Do you speak English? Nowhere did I say anything close to that.

You Dimwingers have been claiming that Trump started WWIII since he blew up one guy.............your strategy was blowing up Iranian military bases. How would your strategy not be WWIII, according to the standards you clowns came up with this weekend?

Really? Quote me when I said that. Oh you can’t? Ok. STFU

Ok.

If I’m spitballing I’d work with the Iraq government and military to break it up. If I wanted to send a message id take out a headquarters, military base or funding source for those responsible

You think drone bombing a top general is no big deal but blowing up a military base will start WW3?!

 

[FA_Q2]

So you really shouldn’t be critical of Trumps response, because you don’t know the details he knew.

At least you post an honest response.

im critical of the lacking information being provided. As I’ve said several times. If there was an imminent threat that we avoided by taking out Soleimani then it was a good move. Kudos to Trump. Explain The threat to the world so resistance has nothing to stand on. If not then we have problems

That terrorist POS should have been taken out a long time ago. However, I am an isolationist, so I am somewhat torn.

There must be repercussions for attacking our embassy.

agreed but there are so many details that need to be considered. Like who was responsible and what the appropriate level of response is and how it effects our allies and troops and foreign agenda etc

It was bold to kill one of their top generals, but the guy was a scumbag.

I have a 19 YO son who is not in college, he has his own e-commerce business and the last thing I want is a full scale war with a draft. Don’t think it will happen, but international relations are a touchy business.

I wonder if the Iranian citizens are critical of their government for their surrogate attack on our Iraq embassy.

I get that the guy was a scumbag from how we know him, but have you seen the funerals going on? There’s a sea of people who saw this guy as their great defender who battled and beat ISIS. I’m sure any sympathy for the embassy attack was long gone after we killed this guy. You see the night and day difference in media coverage from our free country??? I’m sure you don’t trust much of it... well imagine what media the people over there are being fed to shape their reality. I doubt they have the same access it info as we do and the odds of it to be fair and accurate ain’t good. Think about it.
This whole thing is a mess. The least we can do is release the intel we had about the imminent attack so we can show that we were protecting ourselves from this guy. If that story is bunk then we have problems.

Their media refers to the US as the Great Satan.

I do not think it matters what actions we take in general - the US is demonized in Iran as a matter of course.

 

[Slade3200]

im critical of the lacking information being provided. As I’ve said several times. If there was an imminent threat that we avoided by taking out Soleimani then it was a good move. Kudos to Trump. Explain The threat to the world so resistance has nothing to stand on. If not then we have problems

That terrorist POS should have been taken out a long time ago. However, I am an isolationist, so I am somewhat torn.

There must be repercussions for attacking our embassy.

agreed but there are so many details that need to be considered. Like who was responsible and what the appropriate level of response is and how it effects our allies and troops and foreign agenda etc

It was bold to kill one of their top generals, but the guy was a scumbag.

I have a 19 YO son who is not in college, he has his own e-commerce business and the last thing I want is a full scale war with a draft. Don’t think it will happen, but international relations are a touchy business.

I wonder if the Iranian citizens are critical of their government for their surrogate attack on our Iraq embassy.

I get that the guy was a scumbag from how we know him, but have you seen the funerals going on? There’s a sea of people who saw this guy as their great defender who battled and beat ISIS. I’m sure any sympathy for the embassy attack was long gone after we killed this guy. You see the night and day difference in media coverage from our free country??? I’m sure you don’t trust much of it... well imagine what media the people over there are being fed to shape their reality. I doubt they have the same access it info as we do and the odds of it to be fair and accurate ain’t good. Think about it.
This whole thing is a mess. The least we can do is release the intel we had about the imminent attack so we can show that we were protecting ourselves from this guy. If that story is bunk then we have problems.

Their media refers to the US as the Great Satan.

I do not think it matters what actions we take in general - the US is demonized in Iran as a matter of course.

Yet Obama got them to make a deal with the great satan. Steps were taken towards a better relationship. After this crap I don’t know if or how long it would take to repair a working relationship

 

[Olde Europe]

Ok, I can play in fantasy land for a bit. If Soleimani was flying to iraq. Briefcase handcuffed to his wrist with the launch codes going to meet with the leader of an allied terrorist organization to deploy and lead a coordinated attack on the US embassy and military bases... and then Jack Bauer, who uncovered the plot called Trump and told him what was going on and said he had a clear shot to take out the terrorist leaders bit needed the green light in the next two minutes. Then boom. Trump saved the world. Good job!

there ya go

Chuckling here. The bit about the "launch codes" was cute. But no, Suleimania would not be seen anywhere near an Iraqi militia that would thereafter launch an attack. And no, even in your scenario, there was no "immediate attack".

In order to thwart an immediate attack, you have to take on those carrying the weapons. Suleimani wasn't one of these guys.

Anyway, thanks for being the guy who stands up for his thinking, and puts some work in it. That's appreciated.

Here's how I think that whole thing should be assessed, and the problems go way beyond the mere mendacity of the pretend "justification":

Moreover, although taking out bad guys may appeal to a crude desire for vengeance, it rarely solves the underlying political problem. A lot of bad leaders have departed this mortal coil in recent decades, yet the political challenges they embodied continue to bedevil us. Al Qaeda’s Osama bin Laden, Libya’s Muammar al-Qaddafi, North Korea’s Kim Jong Il, Iraq’s Saddam Hussein, the Taliban’s Mullah Mohammad Omar, the Islamic State’s Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and many other U.S. foes are gone, but their deaths didn’t magically solve the foreign-policy problems with which they were associated. Indeed, there is some evidence that “decapitation” (that is, killing top leaders) tends to empower extremists and incline them toward even greater violence.

In short, the Trump administration’s approach to Iran—including this most recent incident—appears devoid of strategic logic or purpose. Trump, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, and the rest of the administration’s foreign-policy team are like chess players who have failed to consider more than one move at a time and thus miss what should be an obvious fact of life in international politics: The other player gets to move their pieces too. Their denunciations, reinforcements, sanctions, and drone strikes are foreign policy as performance art, instead of the tough-minded and careful realpolitik that should inform a great nation’s approach to the world.​

President Obama was facing a stark choice: Either prepare for war with Iran over their alleged nuclear weapons program, or sit down with them and haggle over a deal. Obama wisely chose the latter, and avoided war. Trump violated international law, imperiled the negotiated deal, and, with near inescapable logic, ends up with the other choice Obama was facing. Because "one move ahead" imbeciles, realizing their moves don't produce the desired result, have nothing in their quiver but redoubling their effort doing essentially the same thing. The "denunciations, reinforcements, sanctions, and drone strikes," climbing up the escalatory ladder are but the consequence of Trump's malign eagerness to destroy President Obama's legacy, and right now we're just two or three moves away from war.

Remember when Republicans couldn't stop howling about how "Don't do stupid shit" wasn't a strategy?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Since Osama Bin Laden was replaced you must think killing him was a mistake by Barry Hussein, right?

He had been replaced before we killed him. Killing him was purely out of vengeance, it served no strategic purpose.

And killing him did not run the risk of getting us kicked out of a country we spent more than trillion dollars invading and occupying.

Dodge noted.

no dodge needed since I did not say killing the general was a mistake...just that it was not damage control

Killing the guy who has orchestrated the murder of thousands of American troops is not "damage control"?

Linbuts are nuts.

If only he had done that

 

[Nostra]

So you want WWIII

No. Do you speak English? Nowhere did I say anything close to that.

You Dimwingers have been claiming that Trump started WWIII since he blew up one guy.............your strategy was blowing up Iranian military bases. How would your strategy not be WWIII, according to the standards you clowns came up with this weekend?

Really? Quote me when I said that. Oh you can’t? Ok. STFU

Ok.

If I’m spitballing I’d work with the Iraq government and military to break it up. If I wanted to send a message id take out a headquarters, military base or funding source for those responsible

You think drone bombing a top general is no big deal but blowing up a military base will start WW3?!

You think killing a terrorist will start WWIII, but blowing up Iranian military bases won’t?

 

[Nostra]

That terrorist POS should have been taken out a long time ago. However, I am an isolationist, so I am somewhat torn.

There must be repercussions for attacking our embassy.

agreed but there are so many details that need to be considered. Like who was responsible and what the appropriate level of response is and how it effects our allies and troops and foreign agenda etc

It was bold to kill one of their top generals, but the guy was a scumbag.

I have a 19 YO son who is not in college, he has his own e-commerce business and the last thing I want is a full scale war with a draft. Don’t think it will happen, but international relations are a touchy business.

I wonder if the Iranian citizens are critical of their government for their surrogate attack on our Iraq embassy.

I get that the guy was a scumbag from how we know him, but have you seen the funerals going on? There’s a sea of people who saw this guy as their great defender who battled and beat ISIS. I’m sure any sympathy for the embassy attack was long gone after we killed this guy. You see the night and day difference in media coverage from our free country??? I’m sure you don’t trust much of it... well imagine what media the people over there are being fed to shape their reality. I doubt they have the same access it info as we do and the odds of it to be fair and accurate ain’t good. Think about it.
This whole thing is a mess. The least we can do is release the intel we had about the imminent attack so we can show that we were protecting ourselves from this guy. If that story is bunk then we have problems.

Their media refers to the US as the Great Satan.

I do not think it matters what actions we take in general - the US is demonized in Iran as a matter of course.

Yet Obama got them to make a deal with the great satan. Steps were taken towards a better relationship. After this crap I don’t know if or how long it would take to repair a working relationship

The Mullahs bent Barry over and told him to grab his ankles while they had their way with him one by one.

 

[Nostra]

Since Osama Bin Laden was replaced you must think killing him was a mistake by Barry Hussein, right?

He had been replaced before we killed him. Killing him was purely out of vengeance, it served no strategic purpose.

And killing him did not run the risk of getting us kicked out of a country we spent more than trillion dollars invading and occupying.

Dodge noted.

no dodge needed since I did not say killing the general was a mistake...just that it was not damage control

Killing the guy who has orchestrated the murder of thousands of American troops is not "damage control"?

Linbuts are nuts.

If only he had done that

He did.

Please try to keep up.

 

[Slade3200]

All you right wingers should check out tonight’s episode of Tucker... 1/6

 

[dblack]

im critical of the lacking information being provided. As I’ve said several times. If there was an imminent threat that we avoided by taking out Soleimani then it was a good move. Kudos to Trump. Explain The threat to the world so resistance has nothing to stand on. If not then we have problems

That terrorist POS should have been taken out a long time ago. However, I am an isolationist, so I am somewhat torn.

There must be repercussions for attacking our embassy.

agreed but there are so many details that need to be considered. Like who was responsible and what the appropriate level of response is and how it effects our allies and troops and foreign agenda etc

It was bold to kill one of their top generals, but the guy was a scumbag.

I have a 19 YO son who is not in college, he has his own e-commerce business and the last thing I want is a full scale war with a draft. Don’t think it will happen, but international relations are a touchy business.

I wonder if the Iranian citizens are critical of their government for their surrogate attack on our Iraq embassy.

I get that the guy was a scumbag from how we know him, but have you seen the funerals going on? There’s a sea of people who saw this guy as their great defender who battled and beat ISIS. I’m sure any sympathy for the embassy attack was long gone after we killed this guy. You see the night and day difference in media coverage from our free country??? I’m sure you don’t trust much of it... well imagine what media the people over there are being fed to shape their reality. I doubt they have the same access it info as we do and the odds of it to be fair and accurate ain’t good. Think about it.
This whole thing is a mess. The least we can do is release the intel we had about the imminent attack so we can show that we were protecting ourselves from this guy. If that story is bunk then we have problems.

Their media refers to the US as the Great Satan.
I do not think it matters what actions we take in general - the US is demonized in Iran as a matter of course.

It's the rest of the world that matters - not Iran. If the rest of the world thinks that the US might kill their leaders at any time, they'll be looking for any opportunity to end us. Wouldn't you?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

He had been replaced before we killed him. Killing him was purely out of vengeance, it served no strategic purpose.

And killing him did not run the risk of getting us kicked out of a country we spent more than trillion dollars invading and occupying.

Dodge noted.

no dodge needed since I did not say killing the general was a mistake...just that it was not damage control

Killing the guy who has orchestrated the murder of thousands of American troops is not "damage control"?

Linbuts are nuts.

If only he had done that

He did.

Please try to keep up.

Prove it

 

[Nostra]

..

 

[Nostra]

Dodge noted.

no dodge needed since I did not say killing the general was a mistake...just that it was not damage control

Killing the guy who has orchestrated the murder of thousands of American troops is not "damage control"?

Linbuts are nuts.

If only he had done that

He did.

Please try to keep up.

Prove it

Your ignorance is always cute, Cupcake.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

no dodge needed since I did not say killing the general was a mistake...just that it was not damage control

Killing the guy who has orchestrated the murder of thousands of American troops is not "damage control"?

Linbuts are nuts.

If only he had done that

He did.

Please try to keep up.

Prove it

Your ignorance is always cute, Cupcake.

It is your ignorance on display, you cannot hide it with your blind obedience to the government. You would never dare question the government, would you?

 

[Slade3200]

No. Do you speak English? Nowhere did I say anything close to that.

You Dimwingers have been claiming that Trump started WWIII since he blew up one guy.............your strategy was blowing up Iranian military bases. How would your strategy not be WWIII, according to the standards you clowns came up with this weekend?

Really? Quote me when I said that. Oh you can’t? Ok. STFU

Ok.

If I’m spitballing I’d work with the Iraq government and military to break it up. If I wanted to send a message id take out a headquarters, military base or funding source for those responsible

You think drone bombing a top general is no big deal but blowing up a military base will start WW3?!

You think killing a terrorist will start WWIII, but blowing up Iranian military bases won’t?

again not my words, you have serious comprehension issues. I think killing a high ranking general could start a war with the country that general served for. If Canada dropped a maple bomb on McMaster you best bet Canada’s gonna get fucked up.

 

[Nostra]

Killing the guy who has orchestrated the murder of thousands of American troops is not "damage control"?

Linbuts are nuts.

If only he had done that

He did.

Please try to keep up.

Prove it

Your ignorance is always cute, Cupcake.

It is your ignorance on display, you cannot hide it with your blind obedience to the government. You would never dare question the government, would you?

Even cuter.

 

[Nostra]

You Dimwingers have been claiming that Trump started WWIII since he blew up one guy.............your strategy was blowing up Iranian military bases. How would your strategy not be WWIII, according to the standards you clowns came up with this weekend?

Really? Quote me when I said that. Oh you can’t? Ok. STFU

Ok.

If I’m spitballing I’d work with the Iraq government and military to break it up. If I wanted to send a message id take out a headquarters, military base or funding source for those responsible

You think drone bombing a top general is no big deal but blowing up a military base will start WW3?!

You think killing a terrorist will start WWIII, but blowing up Iranian military bases won’t?

again not my words, you have serious comprehension issues. I think killing a high ranking general could start a war with the country that general served for. If Canada dropped a maple bomb on McMaster you best bet Canada’s gonna get fucked up.

So, you are equating McMaster with the scum leader of a designated terrorist organization? I expect no better from America hating fuckwits.

 

[Slade3200]

Ok, I can play in fantasy land for a bit. If Soleimani was flying to iraq. Briefcase handcuffed to his wrist with the launch codes going to meet with the leader of an allied terrorist organization to deploy and lead a coordinated attack on the US embassy and military bases... and then Jack Bauer, who uncovered the plot called Trump and told him what was going on and said he had a clear shot to take out the terrorist leaders bit needed the green light in the next two minutes. Then boom. Trump saved the world. Good job!

there ya go

Chuckling here. The bit about the "launch codes" was cute. But no, Suleimania would not be seen anywhere near an Iraqi militia that would thereafter launch an attack. And no, even in your scenario, there was no "immediate attack".

In order to thwart an immediate attack, you have to take on those carrying the weapons. Suleimani wasn't one of these guys.

Anyway, thanks for being the guy who stands up for his thinking, and puts some work in it. That's appreciated.

Here's how I think that whole thing should be assessed, and the problems go way beyond the mere mendacity of the pretend "justification":

Moreover, although taking out bad guys may appeal to a crude desire for vengeance, it rarely solves the underlying political problem. A lot of bad leaders have departed this mortal coil in recent decades, yet the political challenges they embodied continue to bedevil us. Al Qaeda’s Osama bin Laden, Libya’s Muammar al-Qaddafi, North Korea’s Kim Jong Il, Iraq’s Saddam Hussein, the Taliban’s Mullah Mohammad Omar, the Islamic State’s Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and many other U.S. foes are gone, but their deaths didn’t magically solve the foreign-policy problems with which they were associated. Indeed, there is some evidence that “decapitation” (that is, killing top leaders) tends to empower extremists and incline them toward even greater violence.

In short, the Trump administration’s approach to Iran—including this most recent incident—appears devoid of strategic logic or purpose. Trump, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, and the rest of the administration’s foreign-policy team are like chess players who have failed to consider more than one move at a time and thus miss what should be an obvious fact of life in international politics: The other player gets to move their pieces too. Their denunciations, reinforcements, sanctions, and drone strikes are foreign policy as performance art, instead of the tough-minded and careful realpolitik that should inform a great nation’s approach to the world.​

President Obama was facing a stark choice: Either prepare for war with Iran over their alleged nuclear weapons program, or sit down with them and haggle over a deal. Obama wisely chose the latter, and avoided war. Trump violated international law, imperiled the negotiated deal, and, with near inescapable logic, ends up with the other choice Obama was facing. Because "one move ahead" imbeciles, realizing their moves don't produce the desired result, have nothing in their quiver but redoubling their effort doing essentially the same thing. The "denunciations, reinforcements, sanctions, and drone strikes," climbing up the escalatory ladder are but the consequence of Trump's malign eagerness to destroy President Obama's legacy, and right now we're just two or three moves away from war.

Remember when Republicans couldn't stop howling about how "Don't do stupid shit" wasn't a strategy?

I think we all know by now there wasn’t an imminent attack. There was a threat of more of the same attacks this guy has been involved with. An maybe that is worth of a search and destroy warrant on this guy... but IMO that should be coordinated with our government and our allies.