Time to repeal the 17th Amendment?

[iceberg]

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

in times prior to this, your seat on the senate was an appointment by the gov. there was never a time you were guaranteed 6 years cause you could be pulled as the gov wanted it for that particular state.

now that they're voted in they can control it in a manner we're seeing pretty abused these days. if we repeal it then we also in effect kill the need for term limits as the Gov would likely change them as they changed as well.

thoughts?

(not changing my original post but adding that i've been corrected on how they were appointed - see thread)

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Yes, repeal it. As the Senate represents the states, the state governments should appoint the representatives. It's plain stupid to have Senators in opposition to the state government.

 

[Darkwind]

Well, I was under the impression that the Senator(s) from each state were selected by the legislature and signed off by the Governor.

As for the 17th, yes it needs to be repealed. The function of the Senate in our Consitution is to be voices for the States. The people already have a body to speak for them, its called The House of Representatives.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Repeal the 13th as well. Let the States fund the federal government in proportion to their EV

 

[iceberg]

Well, I was under the impression that the Senator(s) from each state were selected by the legislature and signed off by the Governor.

As for the 17th, yes it needs to be repealed. The function of the Senate in our Consitution is to be voices for the States. The people already have a body to speak for them, its called The House of Representatives.

well someone else brought it up at work and to be honest, i had forgotten about this from government class, so i wanted to post about it and talk about something other than hate politics for a bit and what we can do to fix it vs get back at the evil other side.

so far i'm all for punting this right out the window.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes. If we want our republic to be restored we need to restore the check the States are supposed to have

 

[Oddball]

Without question...Should have been done decades ago.

Just look at all the fossilized old coots, intellectual lightweights, and outright stooges -in both parties- that have planted themselves in the Senate, would never ever survive a re-appointment by the state legislatures.

 

[iceberg]

Without question...Should have been done decades ago.

Just look at all the fossilized old coots, intellectual lightweights, and outright stooges -in both parties- that have planted themselves in the Senate, would never ever survive a re-appointment by the state legislatures.

it would seem to be a "do-able" step far moreso than trying to put in term limits. both sides say they want term limits and i do without question. that would seem to be harder to do overall but i have no idea what it would take to repeal the amendment.

what would need to happen in order for it to be given the heave ho?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

in times prior to this, your seat on the senate was an appointment by the gov. there was never a time you were guaranteed 6 years cause you could be pulled as the gov wanted it for that particular state.

now that they're voted in they can control it in a manner we're seeing pretty abused these days. if we repeal it then we also in effect kill the need for term limits as the Gov would likely change them as they changed as well.

thoughts?

I am so sorry to interrupt, but where did you find this bullshit? Senators were elected by the state legislators.

Section 3: Senate
Clause 1: Composition; Election of Senators
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Without question...Should have been done decades ago.

Just look at all the fossilized old coots, intellectual lightweights, and outright stooges -in both parties- that have planted themselves in the Senate, would never ever survive a re-appointment by the state legislatures.

it would seem to be a "do-able" step far moreso than trying to put in term limits. both sides say they want term limits and i do without question. that would seem to be harder to do overall but i have no idea what it would take to repeal the amendment.

what would need to happen in order for it to be given the heave ho?

An amendment repealing it.

 

[iceberg]

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

in times prior to this, your seat on the senate was an appointment by the gov. there was never a time you were guaranteed 6 years cause you could be pulled as the gov wanted it for that particular state.

now that they're voted in they can control it in a manner we're seeing pretty abused these days. if we repeal it then we also in effect kill the need for term limits as the Gov would likely change them as they changed as well.

thoughts?

I am so sorry to interrupt, but where did you find this bullshit? Senators were elected by the state legislators.

Section 3: Senate
Clause 1: Composition; Election of Senators
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

if i'm wrong i'm wrong and using this thread to learn. it was in a passing conversation with a co-worker and i was looking to understand it better.

thank you for the correction.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Although repealing the Amendment seems to be consistent with a republican form of government and indirect representation doctrine, unfortunately repeal is proposed in bad faith by most Republicans and conservatives because they control most state governments - and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future - consequently, Republicans would control the Senate for the foreseeable future as well, immune from changing demographics and voting patterns favorable to Democrats.

 

[iceberg]

Although repealing the Amendment seems to be consistent with a republican form of government and indirect representation doctrine, unfortunately repeal is proposed in bad faith by most Republicans and conservatives because they control most state governments - and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future - consequently, Republicans would control the Senate for the foreseeable future as well, immune from changing demographics and voting patterns favorable to Democrats.

the real question isn't about *today* but long term solutions. if we keep protecting immediate short term interests nothing will ever improve.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

in times prior to this, your seat on the senate was an appointment by the gov. there was never a time you were guaranteed 6 years cause you could be pulled as the gov wanted it for that particular state.

now that they're voted in they can control it in a manner we're seeing pretty abused these days. if we repeal it then we also in effect kill the need for term limits as the Gov would likely change them as they changed as well.

thoughts?

I am so sorry to interrupt, but where did you find this bullshit? Senators were elected by the state legislators.

Section 3: Senate
Clause 1: Composition; Election of Senators
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

if i'm wrong i'm wrong and using this thread to learn. it was in a passing conversation with a co-worker and i was looking to understand it better.

thank you for the correction.

I knew you were slipping! Thanks for admitting the error! I respect you even more!

 

[iceberg]

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

in times prior to this, your seat on the senate was an appointment by the gov. there was never a time you were guaranteed 6 years cause you could be pulled as the gov wanted it for that particular state.

now that they're voted in they can control it in a manner we're seeing pretty abused these days. if we repeal it then we also in effect kill the need for term limits as the Gov would likely change them as they changed as well.

thoughts?

I am so sorry to interrupt, but where did you find this bullshit? Senators were elected by the state legislators.

Section 3: Senate
Clause 1: Composition; Election of Senators
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

if i'm wrong i'm wrong and using this thread to learn. it was in a passing conversation with a co-worker and i was looking to understand it better.

thank you for the correction.

I knew you were slipping! Thanks for admitting the error! I respect you even more!

i'm here to learn as much as i can. i'm pretty sure we covered this in HS government but that was '82. i was drunk groping any female who would let me.

but seriously, i have long since forgotten a lot more than i'm comfortable with anymore and if i want to help "fix" our overall gov then *i* need to do a much better job of understanding it from different viewpoints. if i get it wrong, not my intent. i'll learn, correct, and keep going.

 

[Avatar4321]

Without question...Should have been done decades ago.

Just look at all the fossilized old coots, intellectual lightweights, and outright stooges -in both parties- that have planted themselves in the Senate, would never ever survive a re-appointment by the state legislatures.

it would seem to be a "do-able" step far moreso than trying to put in term limits. both sides say they want term limits and i do without question. that would seem to be harder to do overall but i have no idea what it would take to repeal the amendment.

what would need to happen in order for it to be given the heave ho?

Two options:

2/3 of house and senate approve of repealing the amendment and send it to the states for ratification.

2/3 of the states call an article 5 convention that proposes the amendment and sends it to the states for ratification.

Needless to say it isn’t an easy process. I know there is a movement to call a convention of states but I don’t know if repealing the 17th is on the agenda

 

[Avatar4321]

Although repealing the Amendment seems to be consistent with a republican form of government and indirect representation doctrine, unfortunately repeal is proposed in bad faith by most Republicans and conservatives because they control most state governments - and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future - consequently, Republicans would control the Senate for the foreseeable future as well, immune from changing demographics and voting patterns favorable to Democrats.

We control the senate anyway.

Your argument is essentially that it’s a bad faith argument because you don’t like the results. The fact is there is nothing that will guarantee what party will control the state legislatures. This is about more than party. This is about restoring the check the states were supposedly have on the federal government.

There were always meant to be two checks on the federal government the people (house) and the Senate (states).

When it’s just people vs feds, the feds win

 

[OldLady]

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

in times prior to this, your seat on the senate was an appointment by the gov. there was never a time you were guaranteed 6 years cause you could be pulled as the gov wanted it for that particular state.

now that they're voted in they can control it in a manner we're seeing pretty abused these days. if we repeal it then we also in effect kill the need for term limits as the Gov would likely change them as they changed as well.

thoughts?

Believe it or not, Senators need to learn a lot of stuff. There are a million details about this subject and that they have to know in order to propose legislation, argue it intelligently and vote on it. What you're proposing would probably result in a lot of one term appointments. I'm not sure that's enough time for them to really get good at their jobs.

 

[iceberg]

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

in times prior to this, your seat on the senate was an appointment by the gov. there was never a time you were guaranteed 6 years cause you could be pulled as the gov wanted it for that particular state.

now that they're voted in they can control it in a manner we're seeing pretty abused these days. if we repeal it then we also in effect kill the need for term limits as the Gov would likely change them as they changed as well.

thoughts?

Believe it or not, Senators need to learn a lot of stuff. There are a million details about this subject and that they have to know in order to propose legislation, argue it intelligently and vote on it. What you're proposing would probably result in a lot of one term appointments. I'm not sure that's enough time for them to really get good at their jobs.

i'm proposing giving power back to the states where i do feel it belongs. i don't discount the "other stuff" that needs to be learned in order to do the job properly, but how much of that "other stuff" is *because* of what was created back when this amendment changed everything?

it would be a long process yes. but i do believe we'd be better for it in the end.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Although repealing the Amendment seems to be consistent with a republican form of government and indirect representation doctrine, unfortunately repeal is proposed in bad faith by most Republicans and conservatives because they control most state governments - and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future - consequently, Republicans would control the Senate for the foreseeable future as well, immune from changing demographics and voting patterns favorable to Democrats.

Indeed. That is how it is supposed to work.