To Sir or Not To Sir?

[mgh80]

manners are free...good manners are priceless

Calling some women Ma'am can cause serious fireworks. It makes them feel old and they'll TELL you. I've seen it happen.

And I will tell those women flatly that in the South, it has nothing to do with age. It just means they're female.

So to you it is more important to call them Ma'am than to respect their feelings? Are you sure that's actually using good manners, Cecile?

Well, to them it's more important to hear their names than to respect my culture, so why precisely do their feelings rate higher than mine? For that matter, I consider there to be a hard limit on the good manners due someone who manifests no comprehension or appreciation of them, which "they'll TELL you" indicates to me.

I'm not sensitive about my age, so I think those women are kinda funny.
You and I have a different idea of good manners, I guess. To me, it involves being sensitive to the other person's feelings. To you, it seems to be about YOUR feelings. So fine, insist on calling people what makes YOU happy whether they like it or not. But don't make it their fault. That's entirely on you.

I get your point and agree with it in theory...but what are we supposed to do, carry a notebook with us with what every individual likes to be called and refer to it when greeting them?

 

[mgh80]

I am a first name kind of guy.

I hate being called Mr or sir. I tend not to use titles like Dr or Professor either

I think we are too formal even if we are not as formal as we once were

The way I see it we all shit and wipe our asses every day so why not just be on a first name basis ?

I can't see anything about the similarity in digestive tracts that makes me want to be more familiar and intimate in behavior with people.

It's metaphor.

I think everyone is equal so I don't like to use titles.
I don't care if a person is older or younger than I am I prefer a first name basis

People of low character have no respect for themselves or anyone else.

That's where you're wrong as usual.

I respect everyone equally when that is done there is no need for titles and honorifics.

Those that insist on being called Mr, or Dr or whatever have some sort of need to feel superior

On a social level I agree with you that insisting on the title is kind of a dick move, but sometimes it does make sense but the reality is some people do have authority/superiority over others. My players better not refer to me by my first name-or they wont be playing. It's my team and if they want to play they need to respect the rules and procedures-or they can find somebody else to play for.

As for my students they are expected to call me something respectful "Mr. <my last name>", "Mr. V", "Mr.", "sir" (some kids insist on the "sir" and at first it was awkward for me)....but if they call me by my first name: we have a problem. Not because they're damaging my precious ego-but because in the classroom is am the one in charge and I am not on an equal footing with them-and honestly it rarely happens, but whenever a student does call me by my first name I don't even need to address it because their classmates will.

As I said on a social level is one thing (I don't expect parents to use "Mr." or "Coach" while referring to me, also most don't)--but I do expect my students and players to do so. Once they graduate, if I run into them I'll usually tell them it's now fine to call me by my first name...nobody's ever taken me up on that.

 

[TNHarley]

manners are free...good manners are priceless

Calling some women Ma'am can cause serious fireworks. It makes them feel old and they'll TELL you. I've seen it happen.

And I will tell those women flatly that in the South, it has nothing to do with age. It just means they're female.

So to you it is more important to call them Ma'am than to respect their feelings? Are you sure that's actually using good manners, Cecile?

Should they ask for greeting? Maybe someone wear a sticker on their chest?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Calling some women Ma'am can cause serious fireworks. It makes them feel old and they'll TELL you. I've seen it happen.

And I will tell those women flatly that in the South, it has nothing to do with age. It just means they're female.

So to you it is more important to call them Ma'am than to respect their feelings? Are you sure that's actually using good manners, Cecile?

Well, to them it's more important to hear their names than to respect my culture, so why precisely do their feelings rate higher than mine? For that matter, I consider there to be a hard limit on the good manners due someone who manifests no comprehension or appreciation of them, which "they'll TELL you" indicates to me.

I'm not sensitive about my age, so I think those women are kinda funny.
You and I have a different idea of good manners, I guess. To me, it involves being sensitive to the other person's feelings. To you, it seems to be about YOUR feelings. So fine, insist on calling people what makes YOU happy whether they like it or not. But don't make it their fault. That's entirely on you.

I get your point and agree with it in theory...but what are we supposed to do, carry a notebook with us with what every individual likes to be called and refer to it when greeting them?

Kinda the reason for standardized rules of basic etiquette, which we used to have before we decided it was better to go all loosey-goosey and do whatever, whenever. *cough*

Really, though, this is more a conversation/vent about feeling uncomfortable with someone else's insistence on a form of address, even after being told that it's uncomfortable.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am a first name kind of guy.

I hate being called Mr or sir. I tend not to use titles like Dr or Professor either

I think we are too formal even if we are not as formal as we once were

The way I see it we all shit and wipe our asses every day so why not just be on a first name basis ?

I can't see anything about the similarity in digestive tracts that makes me want to be more familiar and intimate in behavior with people.

It's metaphor.

I think everyone is equal so I don't like to use titles.
I don't care if a person is older or younger than I am I prefer a first name basis

People of low character have no respect for themselves or anyone else.

That's where you're wrong as usual.

I respect everyone equally when that is done there is no need for titles and honorifics.

Those that insist on being called Mr, or Dr or whatever have some sort of need to feel superior

On a social level I agree with you that insisting on the title is kind of a dick move, but sometimes it does make sense but the reality is some people do have authority/superiority over others. My players better not refer to me by my first name-or they wont be playing. It's my team and if they want to play they need to respect the rules and procedures-or they can find somebody else to play for.

As for my students they are expected to call me something respectful "Mr. <my last name>", "Mr. V", "Mr.", "sir" (some kids insist on the "sir" and at first it was awkward for me)....but if they call me by my first name: we have a problem. Not because they're damaging my precious ego-but because in the classroom is am the one in charge and I am not on an equal footing with them-and honestly it rarely happens, but whenever a student does call me by my first name I don't even need to address it because their classmates will.

As I said on a social level is one thing (I don't expect parents to use "Mr." or "Coach" while referring to me, also most don't)--but I do expect my students and players to do so. Once they graduate, if I run into them I'll usually tell them it's now fine to call me by my first name...nobody's ever taken me up on that.

Exactly! Thank you!

Egalitarianism is all well and good, but the reality is that everyone ISN'T on an equal footing in everyday life, and I don't think anything good comes of pretending otherwise.

I would never have dreamed of addressing one of my teachers by his/her first name in school, even though I (very rarely) had a couple who wanted to do the "buddy" thing. I flat-out refused in that case, and I remember my mom having to go to the school once and explain that I did NOT have her permission to address teachers by their first names, and if they were uncomfortable being authority figures, they should find another line of work.

To me, forcing casual chummy behavior on people who are, in one way or another, subordinate to you is a verbal equivalent of copping a feel from your secretary in the break room. Admittedly, it's less bothersome to me now than it was when I was younger, because my bosses are often younger than I am, or at least of an age with me. And I'm mature and experienced enough to maintain the necessary businesslike footing and demeanor regardless of forms of address.

But you're still likely to hear "sir" and "ma'am" popping out of my mouth, because it's been ingrained in me for too long to stop.