Toddlers kill more Americans than Terrorists

[frigidweirdo]

They don't really keep stats on how many kids are saved by a gun defending kids do they?

Nor do they keep stats on the number of Muslims who defend people either, do they?

Nor do they keep stats on the number of gun defenses that would be unnecessary if guns weren't in society either, do they?

They also dont keep stats on the number of near misses. Where toddlers get hold of a gun but nobody gets hurt.The gun nuts would probably guesstimate that at about 1.5m times a year.

There is an inherent dishonesty at play here. The gun lobby is obviously in the bunker and terrified that someone may take their toys away. I understand that.
The mature response would be to admit that there is a problem with the way that guns are held in domestic homes and look for solutions to the problem.
But that isnt going to happen with people who are absolutely desperate to prove that toddlers have killed less Americans than ISIS.
Your nuttiness is a source of humour to those of us with a taste for the bizarre.

Yep, they don't keep stats on things that are nigh on impossible to keep track of anyway.

Also, comparing the number of people who are killed and the number of people who used their guns defensively would be like comparing apples and cakes. Too different to make much sense of it.

However I'm not sure your reply is to who you think it is. I'm a little confused anyway. I replied to saveliberty.

 

[2aguy]

The macabre truth of gun control in the US is that toddlers kill more people than terrorists do | Lindy West
Its all in the stats.

And of course you don't show the entire truth...as a gun grabber why would you?

in 2013 there were 320,000,000 million people in the United States.....

There were 74.2 million children in the United States...

There were over 320,000,000 guns in private hands...

Total deaths by guns for children.....including murder and accidents...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703


Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

y
Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69

Out of 74.2 million children.....

Guns are used by armed Americans in the United STates 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack

You should try to have more perspective to mellow out your anti gun hysteria.

 

[2aguy]

the gun violence stats of this country make us look crazy to the rest of the world...

And here is a more realistic prspective on that as well......

Why Turkey and Chile and Bulgaria? Well, those countries are OECD members, and many who use the "developed country" moniker often use the OECD members countries as a de facto list of the "true" developed countries. Of course, membership in the OECD is highly political and hardly based on any objective economic or cultural criteria.

But if you're familiar with the OECD, you'll immediately notice a problem with the list Fisher uses. Mexico is an OECD country. So why is Mexico not in this graph? Well, it's pretty apparent that Mexico was left off the list because to do so would interfere with the point Fisher is trying to make. After all, Mexico — in spite of much more restrictive gun laws — has a murder rate many times larger than the US.

But Fisher has what he thinks is a good excuse for his manipulation here. According to Fisher, the omission is because Mexico “has about triple the U.S. rate due in large part to the ongoing drug war.”

Oh, so every country that has drug war deaths is exempt? Well, then I guess we have to remove the US from the list.

But, of course, the US for some mysterious reason must remain on the list, so, by “developed” country, Fisherreally means “ a country that’s on the OECD list minus any country with a higher murder rate than the US.”

At this point, we're reminded that Fisher (and no one else I’ve ever seen) has made a case for what special magic it is that makes the OECD list the one list of countries to which the US shall be compared.

More Realistic Comparisons Involve a Broader View of the World

Why not use the UN’s human development index instead? That would seem to make at least as much sense if we’re devoted to looking at “developed countries.”

So, let’s do that. Here we see that the OECD’s list contains Turkey, Bulgaria, Mexico, and Chile. So, if we're honest with ourselves, that must mean that other countries with similar human development rankings are also suitable for comparisons to the US.

Well, Turkey and Mexico have HDI numbers at .75. So, let’s include other countries with HDI numbers either similar or higher. That means we should include The Bahamas, Argentina, Costa Rica, Cuba, Panama, Uruguay, Venezuela, Russia, Lithuania, Belarus, Estonia, and Latvia.

You can see where this is going. If we include countries that have HDI numbers similar to — or at least as high as — OECD members Turkey and Mexico, we find that the picture for the United States murder rate looks very different (correctly using murder rates and not gun-deaths rates):

Wow, that US sure has a pretty low murder rate compared to all those countries that are comparable to some OECD members. In fact, Russia, Costa Rica and Lithuania have all been invited to begin the process of joining the OECD (Russia is on hold for obvious political reasons). But all those countries have higher murder rates than the US. (I wonder what excuse Fisher will manufacture for leaving off those countries after they join the OECD.)

Things get even more interesting if we add American states with low murder rates.

And why not include data from individual states? It has always been extremely imprecise and lazy to talk about the “US murder rate” The US is an immense country with a lot of variety in laws and demographics. (Mexico deserves the same analysis, by the way.) Many states have murder rates that place them on the short list of low-crime places in the world. Why do we conveniently ignore them? The US murder rate is being driven up by a few high-murder states such as Maryland, Louisiana, South Carolina, Delaware, and Tennessee. In the spirit of selective use of data, let's just leave those states out of it, and look at some of the low-crime ones:



We see that OECD members Chile and Turkey have murder rates higher than Colorado. Perhaps they should try adopting Colorado’s laws and allow sale of handguns and semi-automatic rifles to all non-felon adults. That might help them bring their murder rates down a little.

But you know that’s not the conclusion we're supposed to come to.Comparisons can never work in that direction. The comparisons should only be used to compare the US to countries with restrictive gun laws and low murder rates. Comparisons with countries that have restrictive gun laws (and/or few private guns) and murder rates similar to or higher than US rates (i.e., Latin America, the Caribbean and the Baltic States.)

Nevertheless, we have yet to see any objective reason why only OECD countries should be included or why countries similar in the HDI to Turkey and Mexico should be excluded.

But before we wrap up, let’s look at the murder rates in all these countries alongside the number of civilian guns per 100 residents. (The x axis is civilian guns per 100 residents, and the y axis is murder rates in x per 100,000.)

 

[2aguy]

The macabre truth of gun control in the US is that toddlers kill more people than terrorists do | Lindy West
Its all in the stats.

And the actual truth about gun use in the United States.....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

the gun violence stats of this country make us look crazy to the rest of the world...

Until you compare notes on mass murder and genocide......Europe murdered 12 million unarmed people....we are talking modern Europe..not medieval Europe......and if you average those murders into the totals of the two countries....we don't even come close.......to their murder rate....and those were not killed in combat....those were unarmed people marched into gas chambers.....

 

[2aguy]

The macabre truth of gun control in the US is that toddlers kill more people than terrorists do | Lindy West
Its all in the stats.

Cute opinion piece with nothing whatsoever to back it up. And it is of course, completely full of poo. As are most progressive news "reports" about guns and gun control.

TRUE: More Americans Killed by Toddlers than Terrorists
This was referenced in the article.Read the story before commenting.

Once again, bullshit. Terrorist killings are frequently classified as workplace violence by our so called justice system in an effort to perpetuate just this sort of bullshit. Also the snopes folks don't bother to source ANY of the shooting data. Not one outside link to support their claim. They give you a figure and that's it. There are NO links to outside source material supporting the veracity of the numbers. Where I come from that means their opinion isn't worth a damned thing. You English types must have a much lower standard for what you consider to be useful information.

Try again. This is OPINION, not fact. Learn the difference.

Of course they leave out 911....they always start counting terrorist deaths after 911........I wonder why that is?

 

[2aguy]

Perhaps trigger guards may reduce toddler accidental deaths?

Actually.....gun safety education in public schools would save more of the 69 lives of children lost each year...out of 74.2 million........but the anti gunners fight gun safety education......the reason? They need dead kids from guns....they are propaganda gold for the anti gun movement.......walking through the blood of dead children to get to cameras to comment on gun violence...is just awesome for them...they can't risk gun safety in public schools cutting down those numbers....

 

[2aguy]

The macabre truth of gun control in the US is that toddlers kill more people than terrorists do | Lindy West
Its all in the stats.

320 MILLION citizens and 20 million illegals and you are worried because there were 33 shootings by toddlers? I assume you are JUST terrified to go to a hospital since 120 thousand people die there a year due to accident and malpractice? Or you must be petrified of driving since over 30000 die a year in car accidents and tens of thousands more are injured.

You don't like the 2nd amendment? Get a new amendment made and passed getting rid of it. Until you do I and every other American have a CONSTITUTIONAL protected right to own carry and possess firearms.

Don't bother.. he is not American. He is in Wales or somewhere over there in GB. He just trolls on USMB for some reason. If you just scroll by his troll threads they die a natural death quickly.

Don't worry...their NHS will get him......

 

[2aguy]

Yep...thought so.......they conveniently forget to include 911......to average that out.....or the other muslim killings that our press ignores...making it hard to find them on the internet.....since they are workplace violence, not muslim terrorism.