Town halls gone wild

[Darkwind]

A Conservative is nothing more then a classical liberal.

Actually, perhaps you missed my point.

A conservative, in the strictest sense of the word, is:

adj.
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style

While Liberal actually means:

adj.
1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

My point was that as far as the broad categories of ideas that are currently defined as "Liberal" or "Conservative" are concerned, neither one would apply to the founding fathers.

Just like there are elements of both modern conservatism and liberalism contained within the Nazi philosophy, and there are many elements of Nazi philosophy that don't have anything to do with Conservatism and Liberalism.

The people who are crowding and intentionally trying to disrupt town hall meetings however, directly resemble the Nazi Brown-Shirts, in both their intentions and their methods.

You seem to have made the same mistake that about 90% of the left make. Equate a tactic (that is employed as often by the left as it is by the right) with ideology.

And acutally, I was not doing that at all. I was saying the people at the town halls were reminiscent of Brown-Shirts, not Conservatives in general.

Perhaps you should carefully read what I wrote before responding.

That is what happens when one tries to apply a modern definition to an ideology. Conservatism more closely resembles classical liberalism then anything else. The definition fits in that we do not feel the need to destroy what our Founders began and favor our traditions of freedom and liberty.

As for the citizens voicing concerns about a Hitlerian style government that is in existence today, I would hardly call what they did worthy of the brownshirts. After all, they haven't actually beaten anyone. The same cannot be said about the left.

 

[Newby]

So, they weren't in league with the government movement? Hitler was elected, he didn't 'take over' anything until after he was in office.

Whether you're elected, or you run a coup d'tat, you still "take over" government if you're successful.

He was freely elected, the brown shirts were working for him, the government. Why are facts so hard to understand? You know, you can't just decide to change them to fit your agenda whenever you feel like it.

 

[Darkwind]

Did you all know that our Universities are chock full of brownshirts? After all, if the working definition of brownshirted tactics is that they shout down speakers, why that happens on a regular basis in our institutes of higher education.

Organized leftist groups often arrive (and these are actual members of the groups not just ordinary citizens voicing their displeasure) at many functions with the explicit purpose of silencing the event because they disagree with the political positions of the speakers.

 

[Newby]

Did you all know that our Universities are chock full of brownshirts? After all, if the working definition of brownshirted tactics is that they shout down speakers, why that happens on a regular basis in our institutes of higher education.

Organized leftist groups often arrive (and these are actual members of the groups not just ordinary citizens voicing their displeasure) at many functions with the explicit purpose of silencing the event because they disagree with the political positions of the speakers.

That's why the hypocrisy demonstrated here by the little lefties is beyond amusing.

 

[Vast LWC]

Looks to me like you're the ones trying to quell political opposition.

Town Hall meetings, by their nature, are open forums where people can freely ask whatever questions they want.

Sending 1500 to mob a town-hall meetings with instructions to ask the same talking point questions over and over, and yell loudly to drown out what anyone else has to say, is, specifically, trying to quell one's political opposition.

Just ask John McCain, he'd tell you the same thing.

It's not going to work this time however, there are too many people against your socialized health care.

There are MORE people who support a "Public Option" which is what the democrats are proposing.

Please show me where someone is trying to pass legislation that creates a "Socialized" health care system in America? As usual you people have nothing but hyperbole and false accusations, and you simply can't take criticism.

they still have the right to voice their opinions and to change the political climate by not voting for the chumps that vote for this socialist health care bill in the next election.

They do, and that's what town halls are for.

The point is, they are trying to stop other people from also voicing their opinions. As you well know.

And FoxNews, Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the right-wing propaganda machine are directly responsible for trampling on the rights of their political opposition.

In fact, by supporting such tactics, you yourself are taking a piss on the constitution.

 

[Vast LWC]

What 'right wing groups'?

There are a number of them but you can find a prime example here:

FreedomWorks | Lower Taxes, Less Government, More Freedom

What propaganda tactics?

Hmm, let's see, does Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck regularly calling President Obama a "Socialist", a "Facist" and a "Racist" on national television ring a bell?

Does Rush Limbaugh equating having a public health care option with "Nazi Germany" ring a bell?

Those would be excellent examples of classic "propaganda tactics."

 

[Newby]

Looks to me like you're the ones trying to quell political opposition.

Town Hall meetings, by their nature, are open forums where people can freely ask whatever questions they want.

Sending 1500 to mob a town-hall meetings with instructions to ask the same talking point questions over and over, and yell loudly to drown out what anyone else has to say, is, specifically, trying to quell one's political opposition.

Just ask John McCain, he'd tell you the same thing.

It's not going to work this time however, there are too many people against your socialized health care.

There are MORE people who support a "Public Option" which is what the democrats are proposing.

Please show me where someone is trying to pass legislation that creates a "Socialized" health care system in America? As usual you people have nothing but hyperbole and false accusations, and you simply can't take criticism.

they still have the right to voice their opinions and to change the political climate by not voting for the chumps that vote for this socialist health care bill in the next election.

They do, and that's what town halls are for.

The point is, they are trying to stop other people from also voicing their opinions. As you well know.

And FoxNews, Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the right-wing propaganda machine are directly responsible for trampling on the rights of their political opposition.

In fact, by supporting such tactics, you yourself are taking a piss on the constitution.

All of that is really nice, but it still is JUST your opinion and a dishonest one at that. No one is trying to stop anyone from voicing their opinions, and you have absolutely no proof that has happened. People are angry and emotional, I have yet to see anyone in any of those meetings in favor of what is going on with this bill. These townhall meetings were intended as PROPAGANDA to begin with to quell the uneasiness that is clearly across the entire country about this bill and it has backfired in their faces. They didn't expect the questions or for their feet to be held to the fire, they expected a bunch of mindless idiots kissing their feet and thanking them for the take over of their medical care. So, now the admin needs a new tactic, a new way to spin what's going on all over the country. Let's accuse them of being 'organized', like that's a crime or there's something wrong with being organized (and this from a community organizer). It's a complete joke. Who cares if they're organized? They're citizens with a legitmate concerns and legitmate questions that are not being answered, and they're getting pissed off and fed up with the bullshit. You can have your opinion of it and you can repeat it ad nauseum, but it's not going to change the facts of what is happening across the country right now.

Another intellectually dishonest statement about it being a 'public option'. It is intended to lead the way to single payer and that is how it has been designed. If you deny this, then you are a fool. Either that or you're a proponent for single payer and just can't be honest about it.

 

[DiveCon]

WOW, is this really the best you've got??

He advertised for weeks that he was going to be at the event, bring an entertainer and then the event itself altered their schedule to accomodate hannity's program and you are still trying to claim that foxnews, who hannity works for, didn't sponsor/promote the teaparty??

Sorry but the facts show otherwise.

So I guess that means if you go to a political rally/demonstration/etc., your employer is sponsoring/promoting said event, just because you work for him/her?
Very interesting concept. Strange but interesting.

Are you really this stupid?? Hannity took his FONXEWS program to a tea party, broadcasted his FOXNEWS program from the event LIVE on the FOXNEWS channel, advertised it for weeks ahead of time and brought an entertainer to perform AT the event. Don't you think the network would have to approve of this move?? Or do you believe that hannity is a maverick and can do whatever he wants to do?

no, you are the stupid one
it was a NEWS event
so the NEWS covered it

 

[Vast LWC]

Organized leftist groups often arrive (and these are actual members of the groups not just ordinary citizens voicing their displeasure) at many functions with the explicit purpose of silencing the event

And (though they usually don't show up in huge numbers and mob the events) these people are just as guity.

Again, I did not specify that all conservatives are Brownshirts, as opposed to Liberals, I said that the current tactics being used by these people, as well as the tactics of the people in the media that egg them on are those of Brownshirts.

And on a personal note, if I were at an event such as this, I would most probably start swinging at people, if they tried to drown me out and trample my constitutional right to pose my own questions to my representatives, so I guess it's better that I haven't attended any recently.

I'm sure there are quite a few people that feel the same way, and if this continues, I guarantee that violence will erupt.

 

[Newby]

What 'right wing groups'?

There are a number of them but you can find a prime example here:

FreedomWorks | Lower Taxes, Less Government, More Freedom

What propaganda tactics?

Hmm, let's see, does Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck regularly calling President Obama a "Socialist", a "Facist" and a "Racist" on national television ring a bell?

Does Rush Limbaugh equating having a public health care option with "Nazi Germany" ring a bell?

Those would be excellent examples of classic "propaganda tactics."

Where is your proof that these groups organized 1500 people using tapes of Hannity and Limbaugh in order to get them to cooperate? Hilarious.

 

[Newby]

Organized leftist groups often arrive (and these are actual members of the groups not just ordinary citizens voicing their displeasure) at many functions with the explicit purpose of silencing the event

And (though they usually don't show up in huge numbers and mob the events) these people are just as guity.

Again, I did not specify that all conservatives are Brownshirts, as opposed to Liberals, I said that the current tactics being used by these people, as well as the tactics of the people in the media that egg them on are those of Brownshirts.

And on a personal note, if I were at an event such as this, I would most probably start swinging at people, if they tried to drown me out and trample my constitutional right to pose my own questions to my representatives, so I guess it's better that I haven't attended any recently.

I'm sure there are quite a few people that feel the same way, and if this continues, I guarantee that violence will erupt.

Just as 'guilty'? Is it against the law to organzie and protest against something that you disagree with? I think not. No matter how much you try to degrade their actions, they won't be degraded. The fact that you and others like you are willing to deny people their free speech rights and deny them asking questions about something that is going to have a huge impact on their lives is what is pathetic and unamerican.

 

[DiveCon]

That particular shot was everywhere. Pay attention. I just posted the first one that popped up.

you still on about fox?

I couldn't care less about Fox. Someone way back asked for 'proof' that the network was supporting the tea party movement, and I obliged. Move on.

except you are too fucking stupid to understand the difference between COVERING an event and SPONSORING an event

 

[Vast LWC]

All of that is really nice, but it still is JUST your opinion and a dishonest one at that.

Really, please point out exactly where I have been "dishonest"?

No one is trying to stop anyone from voicing their opinions, and you have absolutely no proof that has happened.

Are people not in fact mobbing political events and shouting down their political opponents?

Funny, cause I just watched a video tape of the event in Tampa, and it sure looked like there were 1500 people trying to push their way in.

Also, I watched several video tapes of other events and I could have sworn I saw a whole bunch of people chanting at the top of their lungs to stop other people from aasking questions.

Would you like links to these videos? I can provide them, but I'm sure you can easily find them on google.

These townhall meetings were intended as PROPAGANDA to begin with

Hmm, so policians going to a site where people ask them questions and they answer is a propaganda event?

That sure would be a surprise to John McCain, and several other Republicans that have been touting them for years.

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of "propaganda" and it's modern uses in society.

they expected a bunch of mindless idiots kissing their feet and thanking them for the take over of their medical care.

Strange then that the initial invitations were so open that plenty of people opposed to the bill seemed to get in in the first place then, isn't it?

After all, if they were controlling who was there, how would these people have been there in the first place to do the heckling?

 

[DiveCon]

What 'right wing groups'?

There are a number of them but you can find a prime example here:

FreedomWorks | Lower Taxes, Less Government, More Freedom

What propaganda tactics?

Hmm, let's see, does Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck regularly calling President Obama a "Socialist", a "Facist" and a "Racist" on national television ring a bell?

Does Rush Limbaugh equating having a public health care option with "Nazi Germany" ring a bell?

Those would be excellent examples of classic "propaganda tactics."

thanks for the link, i hadnt heard of them before
now i must join to get my marching orders i've been accused of getting
you lib morons are a fucking riot

 

[Vast LWC]

Another intellectually dishonest statement about it being a 'public option'.

Whatever your suspicions are about future changes to the health care system, the proposed "public option" is just that, a public option.

It is you who are being "intellectually dishonest", as you are making up an entire future timeline based on little or no evidence to support it.

The proposed public option is a compromise between people on the left, who want Universal Healthcare, and people on the right, who want completely private healthcare.

But, like the rest of your ilk, you refuse to allow any compromise. For you it's "all or nothing".

But you see, that's not how Democracy works.

 

[Vast LWC]

you lib morons are a fucking riot

All you have to contribute to the conversation are a few insults and short, mispelled statements of "No", and you're calling other people "morons"?

Nice work. Thanks for playing. Now go crawl back under your bridge troll-boy.

 

[Vast LWC]

Just as 'guilty'? Is it against the law to organzie and protest against something that you disagree with?

It is against the law to attempt to stop someone from communicating with their elected representataives, yes.

 

[Newby]

All of that is really nice, but it still is JUST your opinion and a dishonest one at that.

Really, please point out exactly where I have been "dishonest"?

No one is trying to stop anyone from voicing their opinions, and you have absolutely no proof that has happened.

Are people not in fact mobbing political events and shouting down their political opponents?

Funny, cause I just watched a video tape of the event in Tampa, and it sure looked like there were 1500 people trying to push their way in.

Also, I watched several video tapes of other events and I could have sworn I saw a whole bunch of people chanting at the top of their lungs to stop other people from aasking questions.

Would you like links to these videos? I can provide them, but I'm sure you can easily find them on google.

These townhall meetings were intended as PROPAGANDA to begin with

Hmm, so policians going to a site where people ask them questions and they answer is a propaganda event?

That sure would be a surprise to John McCain, and several other Republicans that have been touting them for years.

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of "propaganda" and it's modern uses in society.

they expected a bunch of mindless idiots kissing their feet and thanking them for the take over of their medical care.

Strange then that the initial invitations were so open that plenty of people opposed to the bill seemed to get in in the first place then, isn't it?

After all, if they were controlling who was there, how would these people have been there in the first place to do the heckling?

We can go back and forth all day. As I said, what you think about the protests is irrelevant. I don't care if they're organized, I don't care if they're shouting to get their voices heard. You can try to demonize it all you like, it's just not going to work. There are too many people that have wizened up to what is going on, and they're not buying what you're trying to sell.

Keep putting people down for trying to voice their opinions, keep putting people down for using their free speech rights, it makes your side look more and more like what you actually are and have been for a long time.

Leftists critisizing and demonizing the American tradition of protest and dissent. You gotta love the irony.

 

[Vast LWC]

The fact that you and others like you are willing to deny people their free speech rights and deny them asking questions about something

Funny, I didn't mention anything about that. Asking the original questions was quite fine.

The problem occurred when they tried to stop other people from asking their questions.

 

[Newby]

What 'right wing groups'?

There are a number of them but you can find a prime example here:

FreedomWorks | Lower Taxes, Less Government, More Freedom

What propaganda tactics?

Hmm, let's see, does Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck regularly calling President Obama a "Socialist", a "Facist" and a "Racist" on national television ring a bell?

Does Rush Limbaugh equating having a public health care option with "Nazi Germany" ring a bell?

Those would be excellent examples of classic "propaganda tactics."

thanks for the link, i hadnt heard of them before
now i must join to get my marching orders i've been accused of getting
you lib morons are a fucking riot

Yeah, "Lower Taxes, Less Government, More Freedom".... what terrible ideas....