Trickle-Up Recession: The 1% Getting Real About the Permanent Fix for the Economy

[Toddsterpatriot]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Me though, I'm going with Article I, Section 8 where we can tax ourselves to provide necessities. Preserving human life is the rationale for approving police, fire and military budgets so the legal precedent exists there as well.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup, require a nominal copay each visit to discourage overuse. Sit back and watch the economy recover from a lethal nose dive.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup

At what rate?

How many sales each day of those three categories of goods do you suppose are sold? I'd say probably 100s of millions of items per day, or close to it. An "x" cent tax on each of those sales would add up quickly. We'll let the mathematicians figure it out.

Plus don't forget the nominal co-pay for each visits. This amount could pay the actual working costs of the visit and not the inflated amount that the insurance racket has forced medical outlets to charge in order to get a percentage of the insurance coverage after the adjusters are done diddling with the numbers. That's why healthcare is so expensive; one of the reasons. The providers are in on the game.. Doctors and hospitals have figured out that "insurers only pay "x" dollars in percentage only of the bills. So they inflate the bills "x%" over and hope to get more than what they would've if it all was just done straight across. This racket would be done away with to cut costs even further.

Beverage Digest estimated U.S. soda sales rose 1.4% to $77.4 billion at retail last year as soda makers raised prices and steered consumers to smaller packaging like 7.5-ounce cans that cost consumers more on a per-ounce basis.

Soft Drinks Hit 10th Year of Decline

U.S. consumer expenditures on tobacco products peaked at $100 billion in 2010, with US tobacco tax revenues also now retreating from 2011 record highs of $40.2 billion.

https://www.ttb.gov/statistics/2015/201512tobacco.pdf

The U.S. beverage market is a $354.2bn industry with alcoholic beverages making 60% of the revenues with $211.6bn in sales.

Alcoholic Beverage Market Overview In The United States

Looks like about $400 billion in annual retail sales.
How much do we need to raise to fund your healthcare dream?

 

[Silhouette]

^^ yeah, sugar infested products (sodas, candy bars, packaged donuts and sweet pies, etc.), tobacco sales and booze sales are all on the decline in an era when stress is causing people to flock to those substances in self-medication..sure....yeah....right.. I've got a friend who works at a grocery and she says the place is making a fortune off of a conspicuous RISE in the consumption of booze especially, tobacco next and sugared goodies.

Nice try though!

Training in the Health Field is very expensive.
It costs a fortune to develop the tools of the trade.
The resultant Medical Care we receive is the result of knowledge, R&D, testing and delivery of products & services.

Training to be a carpenter is time consuming too. And doctors need buildings in which to deliver their services. Maybe carpenters and plumbers and electricians should charge $1,000 per hour; because what, is a doctor going to pick up a hammer and build a hospital?

Doctors do a trade like everyone else. And it's time they learned their place in the ranks of "necessary services" as far as wages go. That's another part of reform. So med school costs more than being an apprentice, then journeyman, then contracting carpenter. Withdraw all federal grants for the arts and put those funds into subsidizing medical school for doctors. Then down come the fees. With malpractice reforms also, down come the fees.

See? This isn't so hard after all.

 

[Indeependent]

^^ yeah, sugar infested products (sodas, candy bars, packaged donuts and sweet pies, etc.), tobacco sales and booze sales are all on the decline in an era when stress is causing people to flock to those substances in self-medication..sure....yeah....right.. I've got a friend who works at a grocery and she says the place is making a fortune off of a conspicuous RISE in the consumption of booze especially, tobacco next and sugared goodies.

Nice try though!

Training in the Health Field is very expensive.
It costs a fortune to develop the tools of the trade.
The resultant Medical Care we receive is the result of knowledge, R&D, testing and delivery of products & services.

Training to be a carpenter is time consuming too. And doctors need buildings in which to deliver their services. Maybe carpenters and plumbers and electricians should charge $1,000 per hour; because what, is a doctor going to pick up a hammer and build a hospital?

Doctors do a trade like everyone else. And it's time they learned their place in the ranks of "necessary services" as far as wages go. That's another part of reform. So med school costs more than being an apprentice, then journeyman, then contracting carpenter. Withdraw all federal grants for the arts and put those funds into subsidizing medical school for doctors. Then down come the fees. With malpractice reforms also, down come the fees.

See? This isn't so hard after all.

For someone who occasionally posts some good stuff this has got to be one of the 10 dumbest posts I have ever read.
Your comparing a carpenter to a physician?
I suggest you research what each profession goes through attain their credentials and also the effect they have on their clients.

 

[Andylusion]

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

Google shakes up European units in face of tougher rules - FT.com

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

In other words, many corporations are NOT paying their taxes knowing that the host country is afraid they'll leave.
This is the gist of the articles on the CNN App concerning these companies.

Now explain to me again how destroying America is making America anything other than a 3rd World Nation.

In other words, I can just make up that corporations are paying trillions in taxes, and that claim, is a legitimate argument, no matter what the facts are.

This is the gist of your post on this forum, concerning this topic.

Now explain to me, why you are asking me why you are supporting policies and ideologies that are destroying America, and making America like a 3rd world nation.

How would I know, why YOU are destroying the country?

See how this works? I'm taking your post, spinning it around and throwing it back in your face. Why? Because this is the 4th post in a row where I have posted facts, and you have responded with empty claims, and allegations.

From here on, I'm going to use your rules of debating. If empty claims and allegations is all you need, then empty claims and allegations is what I'll give you. You are destroying the entire country. Companies pay TRILLIONS in taxes all over the world. No need for facts. No need for evidence. I'll just say it, and now you have to defend yourself from my allegations.

You want to play it that way, then here we go.

Otherwise, you better start coughing up proof. I'll even tell you how to prove your claim. Look up the investor publications for any of these multinationals. Apple, Walmart, or whoever. You show me the publication that says they paid zero tax. If you think the publications are lying, then show me the law suits filed by investors for fraudulent investor publications.

Good luck. Until then, I'll just spew every empty baseless accusation you make, back in your face.

You have turned around nothing on me except for THEORIES that have PROVEN to be complete failures.
Tell me America is more prosperous now than it was in 1999.
The Economic Policies in place since 1999 and touted enthusiastically by Neo-Cons have created the economy we have today.
FACTS can NOT be ignored unless one lives in a VERY expensive Steel and Concrete Tower overlooking Wall Street.

Yes, I know that I have turned around nothing... because you have proven NOTHING. That's the point. You keep making dozens of claims, and provide no facts, while complaining that everyone else has no facts.

I'm still waiting for you to directly post the investor reports from all the multinationals, or even one multinational company, that shows they paid ZERO tax. Where is that report? Post it, if you claim to be a person of fact, and not lies.... put your money where your mouth is you moronic fool.

And between the two of us, *I DID POST* the investor reports showing they paid billions in tax.
Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record First Quarter Results

From the reports filed with the SEC and sent out as official investor publications. 25.5% tax rate paid on Apple Corporate profits. Where's your "ZERO TAX" crap now? HUH!??! Go file a law suite against Apple for Fraud. Put your money where your massive gas spewing mouth is.

You stupid ignorant arrogant brainless fools. This is why American will fall to 3rd world status. Morons like you that determine who governs. So stuck up, so arrogant, so full of your own foolishness.... can't even take ONE MINUTE that it required me to prove your stupidity conclusively wrong. GROW UP.... Thank G-d I had parents that taught me better than what you have displayed here.

And no, the "neo-cons" whatever the heck that means to you idiots.... did not create the economy we have today. The economy we have today is the products of 40 years of left-wing policies. Obama Care. Regulations. Taxes. We didn't push for those things. You left-wingers with made up myths about "Corporations don't pay tax!" did this. You are reaping the results of your own failed ideology.

And don't give me this "I'm not a left-winger", you routinely, and consistently over every post here, and every other thread I've had to deal with your mindless unsupported crap, have taken the left-wing side of the argument.

 

[Andylusion]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Me though, I'm going with Article I, Section 8 where we can tax ourselves to provide necessities. Preserving human life is the rationale for approving police, fire and military budgets so the legal precedent exists there as well.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup, require a nominal copay each visit to discourage overuse. Sit back and watch the economy recover from a lethal nose dive.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup

At what rate?

How many sales each day of those three categories of goods do you suppose are sold? I'd say probably 100s of millions of items per day, or close to it. An "x" cent tax on each of those sales would add up quickly. We'll let the mathematicians figure it out.

Plus don't forget the nominal co-pay for each visits. This amount could pay the actual working costs of the visit and not the inflated amount that the insurance racket has forced medical outlets to charge in order to get a percentage of the insurance coverage after the adjusters are done diddling with the numbers. That's why healthcare is so expensive; one of the reasons. The providers are in on the game.. Doctors and hospitals have figured out that "insurers only pay "x" dollars in percentage only of the bills. So they inflate the bills "x%" over and hope to get more than what they would've if it all was just done straight across. This racket would be done away with to cut costs even further.

But if what you said was true... if a tax on those items would magically bring in the money needed to fund all your health care needs....... then why has it not worked already?

We already charge $1 per pack of cigarettes, and that doesn't include State and local taxes. Illinois has a $7 tax per pack of smokes. Which is unsurprising to right-wingers, and ironic to the left, because Illinois is in a budget crisis.

Why hasn't the massive taxes worked? Where is all this magic money you claim would pay for everything?

Similarly, nearly every single State has taxes on alcohol, ranging from a dollar or less on beer, to $14 on hard liquor. And that doesn't include the Federal Tax charged at the company, usually at $18 per barrel, and then whatever State sales tax charged on top of that.

So where's the endless piles of money to pay for everything?

Well... it's really not that hard to figure out.

See, after the tax hike Obama passed in 2009, the tax revenue went up, but has been declining every single year.

Why? Because people avoid taxes. Just like companies avoid tax. Just like everyone avoids taxes. Just like half the people in Obama's original cabinet, had avoided taxes.

Despite law, tribe sells 1.7 tons of cigarettes online | New York Post

Indian reservations have been raking in billions of dollars in untaxed cigarettes.

But that's just the 'legal' way to avoid paying the tax.

The illegal method, is always an option.

60% of cigarettes sold in New York are smuggled: report

As of 2013, nearly 60% of all cigarettes in New York were untaxed, smuggled smokes.

Remember Eric Garner? Selling untaxed cigarettes?

See, this is why your plan will never work. It can't work. It won't work. It has never worked in history.

You can never tax yourself into prosperity. It's never happened in all human history. If your plan even had the possibility of succeeding, then it would have already succeeded.

Instead, your plan is failing before it's even fully implemented.

 

[Indeependent]

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

Google shakes up European units in face of tougher rules - FT.com

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

In other words, many corporations are NOT paying their taxes knowing that the host country is afraid they'll leave.
This is the gist of the articles on the CNN App concerning these companies.

Now explain to me again how destroying America is making America anything other than a 3rd World Nation.

In other words, I can just make up that corporations are paying trillions in taxes, and that claim, is a legitimate argument, no matter what the facts are.

This is the gist of your post on this forum, concerning this topic.

Now explain to me, why you are asking me why you are supporting policies and ideologies that are destroying America, and making America like a 3rd world nation.

How would I know, why YOU are destroying the country?

See how this works? I'm taking your post, spinning it around and throwing it back in your face. Why? Because this is the 4th post in a row where I have posted facts, and you have responded with empty claims, and allegations.

From here on, I'm going to use your rules of debating. If empty claims and allegations is all you need, then empty claims and allegations is what I'll give you. You are destroying the entire country. Companies pay TRILLIONS in taxes all over the world. No need for facts. No need for evidence. I'll just say it, and now you have to defend yourself from my allegations.

You want to play it that way, then here we go.

Otherwise, you better start coughing up proof. I'll even tell you how to prove your claim. Look up the investor publications for any of these multinationals. Apple, Walmart, or whoever. You show me the publication that says they paid zero tax. If you think the publications are lying, then show me the law suits filed by investors for fraudulent investor publications.

Good luck. Until then, I'll just spew every empty baseless accusation you make, back in your face.

You have turned around nothing on me except for THEORIES that have PROVEN to be complete failures.
Tell me America is more prosperous now than it was in 1999.
The Economic Policies in place since 1999 and touted enthusiastically by Neo-Cons have created the economy we have today.
FACTS can NOT be ignored unless one lives in a VERY expensive Steel and Concrete Tower overlooking Wall Street.

Yes, I know that I have turned around nothing... because you have proven NOTHING. That's the point. You keep making dozens of claims, and provide no facts, while complaining that everyone else has no facts.

I'm still waiting for you to directly post the investor reports from all the multinationals, or even one multinational company, that shows they paid ZERO tax. Where is that report? Post it, if you claim to be a person of fact, and not lies.... put your money where your mouth is you moronic fool.

And between the two of us, *I DID POST* the investor reports showing they paid billions in tax.
Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record First Quarter Results
View attachment 89081
From the reports filed with the SEC and sent out as official investor publications. 25.5% tax rate paid on Apple Corporate profits. Where's your "ZERO TAX" crap now? HUH!??! Go file a law suite against Apple for Fraud. Put your money where your massive gas spewing mouth is.

You stupid ignorant arrogant brainless fools. This is why American will fall to 3rd world status. Morons like you that determine who governs. So stuck up, so arrogant, so full of your own foolishness.... can't even take ONE MINUTE that it required me to prove your stupidity conclusively wrong. GROW UP.... Thank G-d I had parents that taught me better than what you have displayed here.

And no, the "neo-cons" whatever the heck that means to you idiots.... did not create the economy we have today. The economy we have today is the products of 40 years of left-wing policies. Obama Care. Regulations. Taxes. We didn't push for those things. You left-wingers with made up myths about "Corporations don't pay tax!" did this. You are reaping the results of your own failed ideology.

And don't give me this "I'm not a left-winger", you routinely, and consistently over every post here, and every other thread I've had to deal with your mindless unsupported crap, have taken the left-wing side of the argument.

Ireland says Apple paid ZERO.
Go argue with Ireland.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

Google shakes up European units in face of tougher rules - FT.com

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

In other words, many corporations are NOT paying their taxes knowing that the host country is afraid they'll leave.
This is the gist of the articles on the CNN App concerning these companies.

Now explain to me again how destroying America is making America anything other than a 3rd World Nation.

In other words, I can just make up that corporations are paying trillions in taxes, and that claim, is a legitimate argument, no matter what the facts are.

This is the gist of your post on this forum, concerning this topic.

Now explain to me, why you are asking me why you are supporting policies and ideologies that are destroying America, and making America like a 3rd world nation.

How would I know, why YOU are destroying the country?

See how this works? I'm taking your post, spinning it around and throwing it back in your face. Why? Because this is the 4th post in a row where I have posted facts, and you have responded with empty claims, and allegations.

From here on, I'm going to use your rules of debating. If empty claims and allegations is all you need, then empty claims and allegations is what I'll give you. You are destroying the entire country. Companies pay TRILLIONS in taxes all over the world. No need for facts. No need for evidence. I'll just say it, and now you have to defend yourself from my allegations.

You want to play it that way, then here we go.

Otherwise, you better start coughing up proof. I'll even tell you how to prove your claim. Look up the investor publications for any of these multinationals. Apple, Walmart, or whoever. You show me the publication that says they paid zero tax. If you think the publications are lying, then show me the law suits filed by investors for fraudulent investor publications.

Good luck. Until then, I'll just spew every empty baseless accusation you make, back in your face.

You have turned around nothing on me except for THEORIES that have PROVEN to be complete failures.
Tell me America is more prosperous now than it was in 1999.
The Economic Policies in place since 1999 and touted enthusiastically by Neo-Cons have created the economy we have today.
FACTS can NOT be ignored unless one lives in a VERY expensive Steel and Concrete Tower overlooking Wall Street.

Yes, I know that I have turned around nothing... because you have proven NOTHING. That's the point. You keep making dozens of claims, and provide no facts, while complaining that everyone else has no facts.

I'm still waiting for you to directly post the investor reports from all the multinationals, or even one multinational company, that shows they paid ZERO tax. Where is that report? Post it, if you claim to be a person of fact, and not lies.... put your money where your mouth is you moronic fool.

And between the two of us, *I DID POST* the investor reports showing they paid billions in tax.
Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record First Quarter Results
View attachment 89081
From the reports filed with the SEC and sent out as official investor publications. 25.5% tax rate paid on Apple Corporate profits. Where's your "ZERO TAX" crap now? HUH!??! Go file a law suite against Apple for Fraud. Put your money where your massive gas spewing mouth is.

You stupid ignorant arrogant brainless fools. This is why American will fall to 3rd world status. Morons like you that determine who governs. So stuck up, so arrogant, so full of your own foolishness.... can't even take ONE MINUTE that it required me to prove your stupidity conclusively wrong. GROW UP.... Thank G-d I had parents that taught me better than what you have displayed here.

And no, the "neo-cons" whatever the heck that means to you idiots.... did not create the economy we have today. The economy we have today is the products of 40 years of left-wing policies. Obama Care. Regulations. Taxes. We didn't push for those things. You left-wingers with made up myths about "Corporations don't pay tax!" did this. You are reaping the results of your own failed ideology.

And don't give me this "I'm not a left-winger", you routinely, and consistently over every post here, and every other thread I've had to deal with your mindless unsupported crap, have taken the left-wing side of the argument.

Ireland says Apple paid ZERO.
Go argue with Ireland.

I do not have to, because they didn't say that. You are just a liar.

 

[Silhouette]

For someone who occasionally posts some good stuff this has got to be one of the 10 dumbest posts I have ever read.
Your comparing a carpenter to a physician?
I suggest you research what each profession goes through attain their credentials and also the effect they have on their clients.

Oh I know med school is tough, but not nearly as tough as veterinary school. Vets have to learn the anatomy and physiology of mammals, avians, fish, reptiles and amphibians. And what each of those species react to in pharmacology. They have to fluidly do all the procedures from dentistry to obstetrics and everything in between, including major surgery on any part of a number of species bodies; and the anesthesia. And all on patients who cannot talk to tell the doctor what's wrong in many cases.

Yet vets charge a mere fraction of what doctors charge as they only focus on one or two very narrow areas of practice solely in one species (human). Admittedly vets aren't cheap. But they charge very reasonable rates for what had to be a very expensive and difficult education. They're making it just fine.

I laugh at your denigration of carpentry. I'd like see you throw up a hospital. By the time you were done learning on the fly about the various systems that make up a building and how to put them all together, you'd be cryin' to your mama. If you could survive the rigorous work that goes along with the intricate skills. I've done both vetting and carpentry. I'd take vetting any day over putting up another structure..

 

[Indeependent]

For someone who occasionally posts some good stuff this has got to be one of the 10 dumbest posts I have ever read.
Your comparing a carpenter to a physician?
I suggest you research what each profession goes through attain their credentials and also the effect they have on their clients.

Oh I know med school is tough, but not nearly as tough as veterinary school. Vets have to learn the anatomy and physiology of mammals, avians, fish, reptiles and amphibians. And what each of those species react to in pharmacology. They have to fluidly do all the procedures from dentistry to obstetrics and everything in between, including major surgery on any part of a number of species bodies; and the anesthesia. And all on patients who cannot talk to tell the doctor what's wrong in many cases.

Yet vets charge a mere fraction of what doctors charge as they only focus on one or two very narrow areas of practice solely in one species (human). Admittedly vets aren't cheap. But they charge very reasonable rates for what had to be a very expensive and difficult education. They're making it just fine.

I laugh at your denigration of carpentry. I'd like see you throw up a hospital. By the time you were done learning on the fly about the various systems that make up a building and how to put them all together, you'd be cryin' to your mama. If you could survive the rigorous work that goes along with the intricate skills. I've done both vetting and carpentry. I'd take vetting any day over putting up another structure..

Liability for animals is probably less than for humans.

 

[Indeependent]

In other words, many corporations are NOT paying their taxes knowing that the host country is afraid they'll leave.
This is the gist of the articles on the CNN App concerning these companies.

Now explain to me again how destroying America is making America anything other than a 3rd World Nation.

In other words, I can just make up that corporations are paying trillions in taxes, and that claim, is a legitimate argument, no matter what the facts are.

This is the gist of your post on this forum, concerning this topic.

Now explain to me, why you are asking me why you are supporting policies and ideologies that are destroying America, and making America like a 3rd world nation.

How would I know, why YOU are destroying the country?

See how this works? I'm taking your post, spinning it around and throwing it back in your face. Why? Because this is the 4th post in a row where I have posted facts, and you have responded with empty claims, and allegations.

From here on, I'm going to use your rules of debating. If empty claims and allegations is all you need, then empty claims and allegations is what I'll give you. You are destroying the entire country. Companies pay TRILLIONS in taxes all over the world. No need for facts. No need for evidence. I'll just say it, and now you have to defend yourself from my allegations.

You want to play it that way, then here we go.

Otherwise, you better start coughing up proof. I'll even tell you how to prove your claim. Look up the investor publications for any of these multinationals. Apple, Walmart, or whoever. You show me the publication that says they paid zero tax. If you think the publications are lying, then show me the law suits filed by investors for fraudulent investor publications.

Good luck. Until then, I'll just spew every empty baseless accusation you make, back in your face.

You have turned around nothing on me except for THEORIES that have PROVEN to be complete failures.
Tell me America is more prosperous now than it was in 1999.
The Economic Policies in place since 1999 and touted enthusiastically by Neo-Cons have created the economy we have today.
FACTS can NOT be ignored unless one lives in a VERY expensive Steel and Concrete Tower overlooking Wall Street.

Yes, I know that I have turned around nothing... because you have proven NOTHING. That's the point. You keep making dozens of claims, and provide no facts, while complaining that everyone else has no facts.

I'm still waiting for you to directly post the investor reports from all the multinationals, or even one multinational company, that shows they paid ZERO tax. Where is that report? Post it, if you claim to be a person of fact, and not lies.... put your money where your mouth is you moronic fool.

And between the two of us, *I DID POST* the investor reports showing they paid billions in tax.
Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record First Quarter Results
View attachment 89081
From the reports filed with the SEC and sent out as official investor publications. 25.5% tax rate paid on Apple Corporate profits. Where's your "ZERO TAX" crap now? HUH!??! Go file a law suite against Apple for Fraud. Put your money where your massive gas spewing mouth is.

You stupid ignorant arrogant brainless fools. This is why American will fall to 3rd world status. Morons like you that determine who governs. So stuck up, so arrogant, so full of your own foolishness.... can't even take ONE MINUTE that it required me to prove your stupidity conclusively wrong. GROW UP.... Thank G-d I had parents that taught me better than what you have displayed here.

And no, the "neo-cons" whatever the heck that means to you idiots.... did not create the economy we have today. The economy we have today is the products of 40 years of left-wing policies. Obama Care. Regulations. Taxes. We didn't push for those things. You left-wingers with made up myths about "Corporations don't pay tax!" did this. You are reaping the results of your own failed ideology.

And don't give me this "I'm not a left-winger", you routinely, and consistently over every post here, and every other thread I've had to deal with your mindless unsupported crap, have taken the left-wing side of the argument.

Ireland says Apple paid ZERO.
Go argue with Ireland.

I do not have to, because they didn't say that. You are just a liar.

I will leave a comment on the CNN App to address their error.

Now back to how Supply Side has created a whopping 1% success story.
I notice how you're avoiding this issue.

 

[Silhouette]

The simple fact is that Universal Healthcare would immediately remove the burden from employers and businesses, allowing them to hire more people straight away. From there, the harvest of taxes from the sale of sodas, candy bars, sugar treats of all varieties, tobacco products and booze across the country begins to pool a vast resource for UH. Then the nominal co-pay each visit helps alleviate costs and discourages overuse of the system by hypochondriacs. People paying for their own private insurance suddenly have the equivalent of a 2nd mortgage freed up each month. They begin consuming more which will drive more sales which will drive more production which will drive more jobs.

From there, more working people each day is a new tax base for income taxes which also boost the economy. New startup businesses will no longer fear hiring more people for the health insurance issues. Someone getting hurt on the job won't bankrupt the company anymore; that fear is gone. Streamline costs, subsidize medical school, and limit malpractice suits and you will see our economy go from the red into the black.

Article I, section 8. It's there for all other services that save or protect human life. So the precedent is already set.

 

[Andylusion]

In other words, I can just make up that corporations are paying trillions in taxes, and that claim, is a legitimate argument, no matter what the facts are.

This is the gist of your post on this forum, concerning this topic.

Now explain to me, why you are asking me why you are supporting policies and ideologies that are destroying America, and making America like a 3rd world nation.

How would I know, why YOU are destroying the country?

See how this works? I'm taking your post, spinning it around and throwing it back in your face. Why? Because this is the 4th post in a row where I have posted facts, and you have responded with empty claims, and allegations.

From here on, I'm going to use your rules of debating. If empty claims and allegations is all you need, then empty claims and allegations is what I'll give you. You are destroying the entire country. Companies pay TRILLIONS in taxes all over the world. No need for facts. No need for evidence. I'll just say it, and now you have to defend yourself from my allegations.

You want to play it that way, then here we go.

Otherwise, you better start coughing up proof. I'll even tell you how to prove your claim. Look up the investor publications for any of these multinationals. Apple, Walmart, or whoever. You show me the publication that says they paid zero tax. If you think the publications are lying, then show me the law suits filed by investors for fraudulent investor publications.

Good luck. Until then, I'll just spew every empty baseless accusation you make, back in your face.

You have turned around nothing on me except for THEORIES that have PROVEN to be complete failures.
Tell me America is more prosperous now than it was in 1999.
The Economic Policies in place since 1999 and touted enthusiastically by Neo-Cons have created the economy we have today.
FACTS can NOT be ignored unless one lives in a VERY expensive Steel and Concrete Tower overlooking Wall Street.

Yes, I know that I have turned around nothing... because you have proven NOTHING. That's the point. You keep making dozens of claims, and provide no facts, while complaining that everyone else has no facts.

I'm still waiting for you to directly post the investor reports from all the multinationals, or even one multinational company, that shows they paid ZERO tax. Where is that report? Post it, if you claim to be a person of fact, and not lies.... put your money where your mouth is you moronic fool.

And between the two of us, *I DID POST* the investor reports showing they paid billions in tax.
Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record First Quarter Results
View attachment 89081
From the reports filed with the SEC and sent out as official investor publications. 25.5% tax rate paid on Apple Corporate profits. Where's your "ZERO TAX" crap now? HUH!??! Go file a law suite against Apple for Fraud. Put your money where your massive gas spewing mouth is.

You stupid ignorant arrogant brainless fools. This is why American will fall to 3rd world status. Morons like you that determine who governs. So stuck up, so arrogant, so full of your own foolishness.... can't even take ONE MINUTE that it required me to prove your stupidity conclusively wrong. GROW UP.... Thank G-d I had parents that taught me better than what you have displayed here.

And no, the "neo-cons" whatever the heck that means to you idiots.... did not create the economy we have today. The economy we have today is the products of 40 years of left-wing policies. Obama Care. Regulations. Taxes. We didn't push for those things. You left-wingers with made up myths about "Corporations don't pay tax!" did this. You are reaping the results of your own failed ideology.

And don't give me this "I'm not a left-winger", you routinely, and consistently over every post here, and every other thread I've had to deal with your mindless unsupported crap, have taken the left-wing side of the argument.

Ireland says Apple paid ZERO.
Go argue with Ireland.

I do not have to, because they didn't say that. You are just a liar.

I will leave a comment on the CNN App to address their error.

Now back to how Supply Side has created a whopping 1% success story.
I notice how you're avoiding this issue.

So I did a search of CNN, looking for any story about Apple, Taxes, and Ireland. Not one single story came up saying they paid zero tax. Not one.

Save your comments. You lied to cover your lie, and now are trying to deflect to a false argument.

No one anywhere mentioned Supply Side anything. And as for the 1% success story... most of America is the 1%. Like I said, two minimum wage workers at McDonald's, is the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth.

Quite frankly, the standard of living the lowest class of people in our country, is above the middle class of most countries on this planet.

I notice how you're avoiding the facts.

 

[Andylusion]

The simple fact is that Universal Healthcare would immediately remove the burden from employers and businesses, allowing them to hire more people straight away. From there, the harvest of taxes from the sale of sodas, candy bars, sugar treats of all varieties, tobacco products and booze across the country begins to pool a vast resource for UH. Then the nominal co-pay each visit helps alleviate costs and discourages overuse of the system by hypochondriacs. People paying for their own private insurance suddenly have the equivalent of a 2nd mortgage freed up each month. They begin consuming more which will drive more sales which will drive more production which will drive more jobs.

From there, more working people each day is a new tax base for income taxes which also boost the economy. New startup businesses will no longer fear hiring more people for the health insurance issues. Someone getting hurt on the job won't bankrupt the company anymore; that fear is gone. Streamline costs, subsidize medical school, and limit malpractice suits and you will see our economy go from the red into the black.

Article I, section 8. It's there for all other services that save or protect human life. So the precedent is already set.

First, Article 1, Section 8, specifically prohibits funding of benefits for specific individuals. General... in General Welfare. Meaning, you can't tax one person, to provide benefits to another.

Second, the framers of the constitutional specifically stated that the general welfare wasn't a blank check, but confined within the enumerated powers granted to the Federal Government.

So, in citing Article 1 Section 8, you have defeated your own argument.

Again... you can claim it would remove the burden all you want. You can say it until the end of time.

The facts remain the same. Despite many attempts at this logic across the globe, not one example of what you claim, has ever happened.

I'll take the facts, over your empty and unsupported claims, any day.

 

[Indeependent]

You have turned around nothing on me except for THEORIES that have PROVEN to be complete failures.
Tell me America is more prosperous now than it was in 1999.
The Economic Policies in place since 1999 and touted enthusiastically by Neo-Cons have created the economy we have today.
FACTS can NOT be ignored unless one lives in a VERY expensive Steel and Concrete Tower overlooking Wall Street.

Yes, I know that I have turned around nothing... because you have proven NOTHING. That's the point. You keep making dozens of claims, and provide no facts, while complaining that everyone else has no facts.

I'm still waiting for you to directly post the investor reports from all the multinationals, or even one multinational company, that shows they paid ZERO tax. Where is that report? Post it, if you claim to be a person of fact, and not lies.... put your money where your mouth is you moronic fool.

And between the two of us, *I DID POST* the investor reports showing they paid billions in tax.
Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record First Quarter Results
View attachment 89081
From the reports filed with the SEC and sent out as official investor publications. 25.5% tax rate paid on Apple Corporate profits. Where's your "ZERO TAX" crap now? HUH!??! Go file a law suite against Apple for Fraud. Put your money where your massive gas spewing mouth is.

You stupid ignorant arrogant brainless fools. This is why American will fall to 3rd world status. Morons like you that determine who governs. So stuck up, so arrogant, so full of your own foolishness.... can't even take ONE MINUTE that it required me to prove your stupidity conclusively wrong. GROW UP.... Thank G-d I had parents that taught me better than what you have displayed here.

And no, the "neo-cons" whatever the heck that means to you idiots.... did not create the economy we have today. The economy we have today is the products of 40 years of left-wing policies. Obama Care. Regulations. Taxes. We didn't push for those things. You left-wingers with made up myths about "Corporations don't pay tax!" did this. You are reaping the results of your own failed ideology.

And don't give me this "I'm not a left-winger", you routinely, and consistently over every post here, and every other thread I've had to deal with your mindless unsupported crap, have taken the left-wing side of the argument.

Ireland says Apple paid ZERO.
Go argue with Ireland.

I do not have to, because they didn't say that. You are just a liar.

I will leave a comment on the CNN App to address their error.

Now back to how Supply Side has created a whopping 1% success story.
I notice how you're avoiding this issue.

So I did a search of CNN, looking for any story about Apple, Taxes, and Ireland. Not one single story came up saying they paid zero tax. Not one.

Save your comments. You lied to cover your lie, and now are trying to deflect to a false argument.

No one anywhere mentioned Supply Side anything. And as for the 1% success story... most of America is the 1%. Like I said, two minimum wage workers at McDonald's, is the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth.

Quite frankly, the standard of living the lowest class of people in our country, is above the middle class of most countries on this planet.

I notice how you're avoiding the facts.

I'm not avoiding any facts.
The fact is most people DO NOT know they are invested in the market.
By the way, how is it mathematically possible for most of anything to be the 1%.
That makes ZERO sense.

 

[Indeependent]

I have to admit I'm pissed, the CNN App removed the Apple Tax scandal story.

 

[Indeependent]

Apple owes $14.5 billion in back taxes, European authorities say

This will have to do.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, I know that I have turned around nothing... because you have proven NOTHING. That's the point. You keep making dozens of claims, and provide no facts, while complaining that everyone else has no facts.

I'm still waiting for you to directly post the investor reports from all the multinationals, or even one multinational company, that shows they paid ZERO tax. Where is that report? Post it, if you claim to be a person of fact, and not lies.... put your money where your mouth is you moronic fool.

And between the two of us, *I DID POST* the investor reports showing they paid billions in tax.
Apple - Press Info - Apple Reports Record First Quarter Results
View attachment 89081
From the reports filed with the SEC and sent out as official investor publications. 25.5% tax rate paid on Apple Corporate profits. Where's your "ZERO TAX" crap now? HUH!??! Go file a law suite against Apple for Fraud. Put your money where your massive gas spewing mouth is.

You stupid ignorant arrogant brainless fools. This is why American will fall to 3rd world status. Morons like you that determine who governs. So stuck up, so arrogant, so full of your own foolishness.... can't even take ONE MINUTE that it required me to prove your stupidity conclusively wrong. GROW UP.... Thank G-d I had parents that taught me better than what you have displayed here.

And no, the "neo-cons" whatever the heck that means to you idiots.... did not create the economy we have today. The economy we have today is the products of 40 years of left-wing policies. Obama Care. Regulations. Taxes. We didn't push for those things. You left-wingers with made up myths about "Corporations don't pay tax!" did this. You are reaping the results of your own failed ideology.

And don't give me this "I'm not a left-winger", you routinely, and consistently over every post here, and every other thread I've had to deal with your mindless unsupported crap, have taken the left-wing side of the argument.

Ireland says Apple paid ZERO.
Go argue with Ireland.

I do not have to, because they didn't say that. You are just a liar.

I will leave a comment on the CNN App to address their error.

Now back to how Supply Side has created a whopping 1% success story.
I notice how you're avoiding this issue.

So I did a search of CNN, looking for any story about Apple, Taxes, and Ireland. Not one single story came up saying they paid zero tax. Not one.

Save your comments. You lied to cover your lie, and now are trying to deflect to a false argument.

No one anywhere mentioned Supply Side anything. And as for the 1% success story... most of America is the 1%. Like I said, two minimum wage workers at McDonald's, is the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth.

Quite frankly, the standard of living the lowest class of people in our country, is above the middle class of most countries on this planet.

I notice how you're avoiding the facts.

I'm not avoiding any facts.
The fact is most people DO NOT know they are invested in the market.
By the way, how is it mathematically possible for most of anything to be the 1%.
That makes ZERO sense.

The vast majority of the people who live in this country, are the top 1% of wage earners in the world today.

In fact, the average welfare check, places you in the top 20%.

 

[Indeependent]

Ireland says Apple paid ZERO.
Go argue with Ireland.

I do not have to, because they didn't say that. You are just a liar.

I will leave a comment on the CNN App to address their error.

Now back to how Supply Side has created a whopping 1% success story.
I notice how you're avoiding this issue.

So I did a search of CNN, looking for any story about Apple, Taxes, and Ireland. Not one single story came up saying they paid zero tax. Not one.

Save your comments. You lied to cover your lie, and now are trying to deflect to a false argument.

No one anywhere mentioned Supply Side anything. And as for the 1% success story... most of America is the 1%. Like I said, two minimum wage workers at McDonald's, is the top 1% of wage earners on the face of the Earth.

Quite frankly, the standard of living the lowest class of people in our country, is above the middle class of most countries on this planet.

I notice how you're avoiding the facts.

I'm not avoiding any facts.
The fact is most people DO NOT know they are invested in the market.
By the way, how is it mathematically possible for most of anything to be the 1%.
That makes ZERO sense.

The vast majority of the people who live in this country, are the top 1% of wage earners in the world today.

In fact, the average welfare check, places you in the top 20%.

I like that...switch it from the US to the WORLD.
Not quite so clever as you think.
The problem is that Supply Side is turning the US INTO those other nations.
And, pray tell, who supplies the Welfare System?
Certainly not Microsoft.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The simple fact is that Universal Healthcare would immediately remove the burden from employers and businesses, allowing them to hire more people straight away. From there, the harvest of taxes from the sale of sodas, candy bars, sugar treats of all varieties, tobacco products and booze across the country begins to pool a vast resource for UH. Then the nominal co-pay each visit helps alleviate costs and discourages overuse of the system by hypochondriacs. People paying for their own private insurance suddenly have the equivalent of a 2nd mortgage freed up each month. They begin consuming more which will drive more sales which will drive more production which will drive more jobs.

From there, more working people each day is a new tax base for income taxes which also boost the economy. New startup businesses will no longer fear hiring more people for the health insurance issues. Someone getting hurt on the job won't bankrupt the company anymore; that fear is gone. Streamline costs, subsidize medical school, and limit malpractice suits and you will see our economy go from the red into the black.

Article I, section 8. It's there for all other services that save or protect human life. So the precedent is already set.

People paying for their own private insurance suddenly have the equivalent of a 2nd mortgage freed up each month.

Sounds awesome!!!
How many billions will it cost? Roughly?

 

[hadit]

Greed will always be a factor in life. But would you prefer a company not automate, not increase efficiency and find ways to do more with less and ultimately close their doors, leaving ALL the employees on the street? You seem to have an emotional instead of logical understanding of how a company works, the costs and risks involved, the tough decisions that those at the top have to make every single day. I worked at Circuit City during it's peak time. Things were great, it was a fun place to work. Leadership was making good decisions and they were very profitable. There was a change in leadership and bad decisions were made which ultimately led to a company that once employed 50,000 well paid people shut down and went away. The top cats during the good times deserved all the perks they got.

They're not automating, they're bringing in "highly skilled" Indians to stack shelves.

No, they're bringing in highly educated Indians to write code.

Which is why IBM, Oracle and MS are kicking technological ass?
You've got to be kidding.

Those are the innovators in the IT world. I'm talking about the companies that use their products. Indian programmers have a very strong presence in nearly every IT department in the country, and for good reason. They're well educated, do good work and don't charge as much for their services as American programmers. That's one reason why I transferred to Database Administration.

"Those are the innovators in the IT world"
You missed my point...
IBM, MS and Oracle haven't innovated ANYTHING since the late 90s.
Nobody even knows who IBM or Oracle are except for people in their 50s or older.
And MS keeps offering up even shitter Indian written code with every version of every product they release.

"don't charge as much for their services as American programmers"
That's the key line.

Their products suck and that's why so many software products have disappeared from the market.
I bet you can't name one innovation from any company other than Apple.
Go ahead, I dare you.
Even the H1-Bs at Google are screwing up Android.

Microsoft SQL Server.
Oracle Database Server.
IBM DB2.

These products are the backbone of thousands of corporations around the world for good reason, because they work. You seem to think that innovation began 5 years ago.