Trickle-Up Recession: The 1% Getting Real About the Permanent Fix for the Economy

[Indeependent]

Prior to Reagan, firms were NOT hurt by giving benefits.
The fact of the matter is that the DOT COM Bubble gave Directors, CEOs and many Investors exorbitant rewards that they really didn't work for.
But no one wants to give up the INCREDIBLE excess they bought into during that period.
If I were a Director with a surgically enhanced wife and lovers in 20 countries plus God knows how much property, I wouldn't want to give it up either.
But the Middle Class can no longer fund America's infrastructure.

Pensioners? 401K holders?
Their investments are way overvalued and why should the working stiffs of today give a damn about the retirees who don't give a damn about people who are working and making less and less?

McDonalds? Why are you conflating a TOTALLY automated franchise with Financial, Software and Appliance Firms that are replacing Americans with Indians?
Every McDonalds, is by it's very nature, is a low wage job.
They also pay their White Collar people shit money but the fact is that their operations are 99% automated and don't really required White Collar expertise.

The uber-wealthy have 1 vote but immeasurable greater INFLUENCE over our legislation than the average worker.
Every single one of your talking points is absolute nonsense as the wealth has been legislatively manipulated into the hands of the few.
America is gone within 10 years at the pace we are going.

I don't know what you are talking about, except that you are taking very small examples, and trying to apply it to everyone.

Very few CEOs of the dot.com bubble made millions while providing nothing. Very few. Similarly, investors were largely wiped out. Of course there were a few shady guys who created fake dot.companies, sold stock to investors, who knew it was a fake, let the price go up, and bailed out.

But there are always scams, and are always tiny isolated examples. And these people don't have anything left today anyway. They were scam artists. The few stories I've read about that, they are hiding in Latin America, and will never come back unless they are extradited.

Most of the bubble, was just a bubble. CEOs who invested heavily into companies that didn't make it, didn't walk out millionaires, unless perhaps they had other assets not tied to the company. Which means they earned it. Nor did investors who bought into it. Some had millions and ended up with thousands... again unless they had other investments that were successful.

The only people who are still wealthy from the dot.com bubble, are the companies which made it. Amazon, Google, and others. And they did earn what they have. You are wrong about that.

Oh please. We most certainly can afford infrastructure spending. It's not even that big of a deal. The problem isn't that we can't afford it. The problem is, we want to spend on other things.

It's just like most Americans could (before obamacare) easily afford health insurance. The average American spent twice as much on eating out, smart phones, TVs and cable, cars, and other entertainment (movies, football games, and so on). Similarly most Americans can easily afford to save for retirement. They would just rather have a beer, watch ESPN, and order a pizza, instead of save the money for retirement.

We can easily.... EASILY... afford all the infrastructure you could ever possibly want. Infrastructure spending today, is higher per-capita, than it was in the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, and 1940s. We spend more, per person, on infrastructure, than the European Union or the UK. Only Japan and Australia spend more.

But we would rather spend the money on special interest groups, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Green-Energy, Unions, Welfare, Food Stamps, and a million other programs.

The entire Department of Transportation budget was only $11 Billion. Let's take some of that $23 Billion in farm subsidies, and fix the pot holes. Can't do that, gotta subsidize farms, right? Or the education $38 Billion in education programs. Nope, can't cut that. Gotta have money for the education union.

See, you people want everything. Just give me everything. I want free this, and free that, and subsidized schools, and so on. Then you complain..."oh there's no money to fix the pot holes!". Whose fault is that? Yours. We could cut taxes by 50%, and still fund the military, and have enough money left over, to build every bridge you people could dream up AND pay off the national debt.

We just can't do it, and fund every program you want, and every Obama Phone, and every SNAP card, and every subsidy, and every government grant... . and then you want to blame the rich??? No no, the problem is in your mirror.

People are not making less and less. That's just another myth. Not true. You are factually incorrect.

The minimum wage people of today, live a life of almost luxury, compared to the minimum wage people of yesterday.

The average minimum wage worker, lives in dwelling of Air Conditioning and high speed internet, and nation wide communication, and owns two automobiles. Things that 30, 40 and 50 years ago, only the richest of the rich could afford.

It's simply a myth. Two minimum wage workers, are the top 1% of wager earners on the face of the Earth. You are complaining about a life that most people on this Earth consider to be legend and for royalty.

In fact, the average welfare check places you in the top 20% of wage earners in the world.... without earning a wage.
The Average US Welfare Payment Puts You In The Top 20% Of All Income Earners

You missed it. If you work at nearly all companies, you get company stock. You should care, because the person you are harming, by taxing the company.... IS YOU.

Now if you refuse to join the 401k, and the profit sharing plan.... THEN THE PROBLEM IS STILL YOU.

Either way... you are harming YOU by demanding companies pay higher tax.

We've been over this. Yes some companies are hiring immigrants. Some are hiring Indians or whatever. Again, you seem to take a few select examples, and try and apply it to everyone. There are hundreds of thousands of companies. There are not all, or even the majority, hiring only foreign workers.

Regardless, what does this have to do with anything? If you force companies to pay higher corporate taxes.... explain how that is magically going to get them to not hire foreigners? If anything higher taxes would force the company to look for ways to cut costs. One of which is to replace Americans with cheaper labor.

Beyond that even, you can't pay people more than the labor is worth. If the customer isn't willing to pay me $100 to mow their lawn, I can't hire an employee and pay them $100 to mow the lawn. I would go out of business.

If the value of the work you do, isn't worth $100,000 a year to the customer, then the company can't pay you $100,000 a year for that work. No tax policy you make up, is going to change that. It can only make that problem worse.

The wealthy have more influence. Yes. Of course they do. They have since the dawn of human existence. They have throughout all civilization. And they will continue to have, until the end of the Earth.

Even if you go to an isolated tribal people in the middle of the Congo... the person with the best hut, the most wives, and the most children, has the most influence over the tribal leadership.

If you are trying to tell me, that you can't be happy, or you think the country will end, unless we eliminate the influence of the wealthy on government.... then first the country should have imploded 200 years ago, second you should bend over, and kiss your own butt goodbye.

You are destined to be a miserable sad bitter person until you die. Because I can't guarantee much, but I would stake my entire life, and everything I have on this. You will never.... at any point... in this country, or any other... have a system where the wealthy do not have more influence than the rest of society.

No amount of laws. No amount of regulations. No policies you could ever dream up. Nothing will ever change this fact.

People do not tend to vote for impoverished beggars. Haven't seen a homeless bum yet, who ran for public office and won.

Middle class plumbers, don't have time, or the money, to run for public office. And middle class business owners, are busy..... running their business.

Only the successful and wealthy, run for office. And naturally wealthy and successful people, don't hang out with bums and homeless people. So your friends, and your network, is going to be wealthy people like you, when you get into office.

This is how it has always been, throughout all the world, and throughout all human history. It will never change. If this is the fight you want to fight, and the hill you are willing to die on... then get ready to die on a hill. You are not going to change this.

You are correct..
We CAN afford infrastructure.
As soon as we do what Ben Stein suggests...
Severely raise Income Tax on the uber-wealthy and Corporate Taxes.
Why does Ben Stein say this?
Because the Corporations, Directors and CEOs of MNCs are FLUSH with cash they'll never be able to spend in their lifetimes.

Throughout the late 90s and 2000s, Robert Reich was one of the paid shills telling us how destroying America would make it great.
Of course Reich never say "destroy", he simply said America would gain 5 indigenous careers for every H1-B; he DIDN'T say these careers would be janitors. He also didn't say that the H1-Bs who were fired after that received their Green Cards would replace the non-Indian H1-B janitors.
He told us Off-Shoring would stimulate more factories in the US...WRONG.
NOW Mr. Reich is not saying he was paid to LIE, he's saying his Economic Model was WRONG!

The other famous argument is that American corporations were moving overseas to pay lower taxes.
We find out NOW that these corporations are, for the most part, trying to get away with paying ZERO taxes.

No, my Neo-Con tool, NONE of your cherry picked arguments from Neo-Con sites can fool someone like myself who has been, thanks to my son, reading the same bullshit in Financial Publications that YOU have been reading.

Wrong again. We've already covered this. None of them, regardless of how much you think they are flush with cash, are going to pay the taxes you want.

How many times are you going to need to be shown this, before you figure it out? How many time do you need to have the examples posted to you over and over, before you stop claiming it will work?

Wealthy avoid taxes by moving assets to no-tax states

The wealthy are going to avoid your taxes. The higher you push up those taxes, the more they will avoid them.

I've posted hundreds of examples, from around the world, and now examples from within the United States.

They are not paying zero tax. You and your side, have been spewing that unsupportable, unprovable, allegation for a decade now.

Yeah, I'd like a list of names of people whose jobs were replaced by H1-B visas, and are now emptying garbage cans. Do show the exact numbers of this.

Sorry, but my cherry picked examples are dead on. Can compared to your ZERO examples, and endless proven false arguments, are far more compelling.

You have shown THEORIES, not concrete examples.
The laws the wealthy bribed into legislation must be reversed.
In terms of H1-Bs, where the hell do you live? In a cave?
Has YOUR city been an H1-B hotbed?
NYC and LI sure are.
Please don't tell me you live in Wyoming or Idaho and think you know what's going on in H1-B hotbeds.
I suggest you start reading the WSJ starting in 1998 and realize how many lies you believe.

We have tons of H1-Bs here in Columbus Ohio. Tons. And I have yet to meet one single person, in all the companies I have worked for, over the past 20 years, that is now emptying trash cans, because they were replaced. The only people I know that have been replaced at all, were replaced for their incompetence. And even then, they haven't gone to emptying trash cans. They generally find a position that they can handle in the same field.

That wasn't a theory. That was an established, documented fact. As have all the examples I have given. I'm sorry, but when I post a link, to documented evidence, and you scream "that's not fact, that's opinion", all you do is discredit yourself.

The H1-Bs in NYC are methodologically laid off and replace minorities at Home Depot, etc...

 

[Indeependent]

Prior to Reagan, firms were NOT hurt by giving benefits.
The fact of the matter is that the DOT COM Bubble gave Directors, CEOs and many Investors exorbitant rewards that they really didn't work for.
But no one wants to give up the INCREDIBLE excess they bought into during that period.
If I were a Director with a surgically enhanced wife and lovers in 20 countries plus God knows how much property, I wouldn't want to give it up either.
But the Middle Class can no longer fund America's infrastructure.

Pensioners? 401K holders?
Their investments are way overvalued and why should the working stiffs of today give a damn about the retirees who don't give a damn about people who are working and making less and less?

McDonalds? Why are you conflating a TOTALLY automated franchise with Financial, Software and Appliance Firms that are replacing Americans with Indians?
Every McDonalds, is by it's very nature, is a low wage job.
They also pay their White Collar people shit money but the fact is that their operations are 99% automated and don't really required White Collar expertise.

The uber-wealthy have 1 vote but immeasurable greater INFLUENCE over our legislation than the average worker.
Every single one of your talking points is absolute nonsense as the wealth has been legislatively manipulated into the hands of the few.
America is gone within 10 years at the pace we are going.

I don't know what you are talking about, except that you are taking very small examples, and trying to apply it to everyone.

Very few CEOs of the dot.com bubble made millions while providing nothing. Very few. Similarly, investors were largely wiped out. Of course there were a few shady guys who created fake dot.companies, sold stock to investors, who knew it was a fake, let the price go up, and bailed out.

But there are always scams, and are always tiny isolated examples. And these people don't have anything left today anyway. They were scam artists. The few stories I've read about that, they are hiding in Latin America, and will never come back unless they are extradited.

Most of the bubble, was just a bubble. CEOs who invested heavily into companies that didn't make it, didn't walk out millionaires, unless perhaps they had other assets not tied to the company. Which means they earned it. Nor did investors who bought into it. Some had millions and ended up with thousands... again unless they had other investments that were successful.

The only people who are still wealthy from the dot.com bubble, are the companies which made it. Amazon, Google, and others. And they did earn what they have. You are wrong about that.

Oh please. We most certainly can afford infrastructure spending. It's not even that big of a deal. The problem isn't that we can't afford it. The problem is, we want to spend on other things.

It's just like most Americans could (before obamacare) easily afford health insurance. The average American spent twice as much on eating out, smart phones, TVs and cable, cars, and other entertainment (movies, football games, and so on). Similarly most Americans can easily afford to save for retirement. They would just rather have a beer, watch ESPN, and order a pizza, instead of save the money for retirement.

We can easily.... EASILY... afford all the infrastructure you could ever possibly want. Infrastructure spending today, is higher per-capita, than it was in the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, and 1940s. We spend more, per person, on infrastructure, than the European Union or the UK. Only Japan and Australia spend more.

But we would rather spend the money on special interest groups, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Green-Energy, Unions, Welfare, Food Stamps, and a million other programs.

The entire Department of Transportation budget was only $11 Billion. Let's take some of that $23 Billion in farm subsidies, and fix the pot holes. Can't do that, gotta subsidize farms, right? Or the education $38 Billion in education programs. Nope, can't cut that. Gotta have money for the education union.

See, you people want everything. Just give me everything. I want free this, and free that, and subsidized schools, and so on. Then you complain..."oh there's no money to fix the pot holes!". Whose fault is that? Yours. We could cut taxes by 50%, and still fund the military, and have enough money left over, to build every bridge you people could dream up AND pay off the national debt.

We just can't do it, and fund every program you want, and every Obama Phone, and every SNAP card, and every subsidy, and every government grant... . and then you want to blame the rich??? No no, the problem is in your mirror.

People are not making less and less. That's just another myth. Not true. You are factually incorrect.

The minimum wage people of today, live a life of almost luxury, compared to the minimum wage people of yesterday.

The average minimum wage worker, lives in dwelling of Air Conditioning and high speed internet, and nation wide communication, and owns two automobiles. Things that 30, 40 and 50 years ago, only the richest of the rich could afford.

It's simply a myth. Two minimum wage workers, are the top 1% of wager earners on the face of the Earth. You are complaining about a life that most people on this Earth consider to be legend and for royalty.

In fact, the average welfare check places you in the top 20% of wage earners in the world.... without earning a wage.
The Average US Welfare Payment Puts You In The Top 20% Of All Income Earners

You missed it. If you work at nearly all companies, you get company stock. You should care, because the person you are harming, by taxing the company.... IS YOU.

Now if you refuse to join the 401k, and the profit sharing plan.... THEN THE PROBLEM IS STILL YOU.

Either way... you are harming YOU by demanding companies pay higher tax.

We've been over this. Yes some companies are hiring immigrants. Some are hiring Indians or whatever. Again, you seem to take a few select examples, and try and apply it to everyone. There are hundreds of thousands of companies. There are not all, or even the majority, hiring only foreign workers.

Regardless, what does this have to do with anything? If you force companies to pay higher corporate taxes.... explain how that is magically going to get them to not hire foreigners? If anything higher taxes would force the company to look for ways to cut costs. One of which is to replace Americans with cheaper labor.

Beyond that even, you can't pay people more than the labor is worth. If the customer isn't willing to pay me $100 to mow their lawn, I can't hire an employee and pay them $100 to mow the lawn. I would go out of business.

If the value of the work you do, isn't worth $100,000 a year to the customer, then the company can't pay you $100,000 a year for that work. No tax policy you make up, is going to change that. It can only make that problem worse.

The wealthy have more influence. Yes. Of course they do. They have since the dawn of human existence. They have throughout all civilization. And they will continue to have, until the end of the Earth.

Even if you go to an isolated tribal people in the middle of the Congo... the person with the best hut, the most wives, and the most children, has the most influence over the tribal leadership.

If you are trying to tell me, that you can't be happy, or you think the country will end, unless we eliminate the influence of the wealthy on government.... then first the country should have imploded 200 years ago, second you should bend over, and kiss your own butt goodbye.

You are destined to be a miserable sad bitter person until you die. Because I can't guarantee much, but I would stake my entire life, and everything I have on this. You will never.... at any point... in this country, or any other... have a system where the wealthy do not have more influence than the rest of society.

No amount of laws. No amount of regulations. No policies you could ever dream up. Nothing will ever change this fact.

People do not tend to vote for impoverished beggars. Haven't seen a homeless bum yet, who ran for public office and won.

Middle class plumbers, don't have time, or the money, to run for public office. And middle class business owners, are busy..... running their business.

Only the successful and wealthy, run for office. And naturally wealthy and successful people, don't hang out with bums and homeless people. So your friends, and your network, is going to be wealthy people like you, when you get into office.

This is how it has always been, throughout all the world, and throughout all human history. It will never change. If this is the fight you want to fight, and the hill you are willing to die on... then get ready to die on a hill. You are not going to change this.

You are correct..
We CAN afford infrastructure.
As soon as we do what Ben Stein suggests...
Severely raise Income Tax on the uber-wealthy and Corporate Taxes.
Why does Ben Stein say this?
Because the Corporations, Directors and CEOs of MNCs are FLUSH with cash they'll never be able to spend in their lifetimes.

Throughout the late 90s and 2000s, Robert Reich was one of the paid shills telling us how destroying America would make it great.
Of course Reich never say "destroy", he simply said America would gain 5 indigenous careers for every H1-B; he DIDN'T say these careers would be janitors. He also didn't say that the H1-Bs who were fired after that received their Green Cards would replace the non-Indian H1-B janitors.
He told us Off-Shoring would stimulate more factories in the US...WRONG.
NOW Mr. Reich is not saying he was paid to LIE, he's saying his Economic Model was WRONG!

The other famous argument is that American corporations were moving overseas to pay lower taxes.
We find out NOW that these corporations are, for the most part, trying to get away with paying ZERO taxes.

No, my Neo-Con tool, NONE of your cherry picked arguments from Neo-Con sites can fool someone like myself who has been, thanks to my son, reading the same bullshit in Financial Publications that YOU have been reading.

Wrong again. We've already covered this. None of them, regardless of how much you think they are flush with cash, are going to pay the taxes you want.

How many times are you going to need to be shown this, before you figure it out? How many time do you need to have the examples posted to you over and over, before you stop claiming it will work?

Wealthy avoid taxes by moving assets to no-tax states

The wealthy are going to avoid your taxes. The higher you push up those taxes, the more they will avoid them.

I've posted hundreds of examples, from around the world, and now examples from within the United States.

They are not paying zero tax. You and your side, have been spewing that unsupportable, unprovable, allegation for a decade now.

Yeah, I'd like a list of names of people whose jobs were replaced by H1-B visas, and are now emptying garbage cans. Do show the exact numbers of this.

Sorry, but my cherry picked examples are dead on. Can compared to your ZERO examples, and endless proven false arguments, are far more compelling.

MNCs are NOT paying ZERO taxes in Australia and Ireland?
Shit man, pull out your damn smartphone and read a story once in a while.

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

 

[Silhouette]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Yep, old (and I mean OLD, the guy is 70!) "bankruptcy Donald" is going to get our corporations back and then they'll care for the masses...cuz...ya know...that's what they do!

GAWD... ignoramous trustimus maximus is the new political species I guess. Yep, "Trust Donald Trump!!"

Me though, I'm going with Article I, Section 8 where we can tax ourselves to provide necessities. Preserving human life is the rationale for approving police, fire and military budgets so the legal precedent exists there as well.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup, require a nominal copay each visit to discourage overuse. Sit back and watch the economy recover from a lethal nose dive.

 

[Indeependent]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Yep, old (and I mean OLD, the guy is 70!) "bankruptcy Donald" is going to get our corporations back and then they'll care for the masses...cuz...ya know...that's what they do!

GAWD... ignoramous trustimus maximus is the new political species I guess. Yep, "Trust Donald Trump!!"

Trump has been harping on this for over 20 years.
MY Middle Class taxes CANNOT support UHC.

 

[Silhouette]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Yep, old (and I mean OLD, the guy is 70!) "bankruptcy Donald" is going to get our corporations back and then they'll care for the masses...cuz...ya know...that's what they do!

GAWD... ignoramous trustimus maximus is the new political species I guess. Yep, "Trust Donald Trump!!"

Trump has been harping on this for over 20 years.
MY Middle Class taxes CANNOT support UHC.

Apparently your taxes didn't support a basic education for yourself either since you CAN'T READ apparently. How are YOUR "Middle Class taxes" going to fund it when it will be funded INSTEAD by each and every single cash register ring up, every day, across the entire country on sugar crap, tobacco and booze products? Are you aware of how many cash register rings there are each day in America for those products? It is mind boggling to think about. Just stand and watch at a local grocery checkout stand one day and have a chart with you...Convenient and apropos too since those products are the three main killers of people in the US: more than all our wars, police actions and fires combined..

 

[Indeependent]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Yep, old (and I mean OLD, the guy is 70!) "bankruptcy Donald" is going to get our corporations back and then they'll care for the masses...cuz...ya know...that's what they do!

GAWD... ignoramous trustimus maximus is the new political species I guess. Yep, "Trust Donald Trump!!"

Trump has been harping on this for over 20 years.
MY Middle Class taxes CANNOT support UHC.

Apparently your taxes didn't support a basic education for yourself either since you CAN'T READ apparently. How are YOUR "Middle Class taxes" going to fund it when it will be funded INSTEAD by each and every single cash register ring up, every day, across the entire country on sugar crap, tobacco and booze products? Are you aware of how many cash register rings there are each day in America for those products? It is mind boggling to think about. Just stand and watch at a local grocery checkout stand one day and have a chart with you...Convenient and apropos too since those products are the three main killers of people in the US: more than all our wars, police actions and fires combined..

Because the POOR get a LOT of their income from the Middle Class.
They get Homes, Smart Phones, TVs, Schools, "Free" Medical Care.
Please don't tell me you don't this.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You know me, always keeping it raw and real...

Last night in Obama's SOTU speech he just frankly lied a hellof a lot. Especially about the economy & jobs.

He made veiled reference though, addressing the 1% in the audience (virtually all of them), to how automation, offshoring jobs and foreign bank accounts to escape taxes were the culprits.

When you take jobs away from people, they can't buy stuff from you anymore. That's the long and the short of the argument.

Solutions would be like Canada's very sensible requirement of a certain percentage of industry using automation, to have humans doing that work. Also, stiffer tariffs on ALL goods manufactured offshore. PERIOD. And, universal healthcare, where the equivalent of a second mortgage in premiums and deductibles would immediately vanish from the American home's outlay each month. That money would be converted to consuming. Private healthcare maintained for the upper classes. Free clinics require a co-pay for routine visits. All paid for via Article I, Section 8.

Ask yourselves this as your portfolio shrinks, dear 1%....How many of these workers are buying cars, vacations, dining, sundries or new homes this year? Welcome to trickle-up recession. You have nobody but yourselves to thank..

The new auto assembly line...a tiny group of people getting filthy ass rich...until trickle-up grabs them by the throat.. Obama said "auto sales are up!". He just failed to mention that Americans aren't the ones able to buy them. Very recently banks have announced they're loaning up to 120% of the value of a new car. And 90% of a new home purchase. These bandaids might work to get people elected, but then the banks are sitting precariously...again...who will bail them out next time when there are no more crumbs left in the cookie jar?

Folks, we have to get REAL about the economy.....AND FAST...

The old auto assembly line... I'll bet a bunch of these guys would be buying stuff all day long if we had the Canadian requirements in place:

YEP,
The 1% Getting Real About the Permanent Fix for the Economy, It's called a plutocracy

 

[Silhouette]

Because the POOR get a LOT of their income from the Middle Class.
They get Homes, Smart Phones, TVs, Schools, "Free" Medical Care.
Please don't tell me you don't this.

Ah, a non sequitur. You're really invested in this "NO UH" campaign aren't you? Personally offends you. Do you work for a health insurance company or pharma?

Healthcare wouldn't be "an income". Besides, with more poor people having jobs as a direct result of the particulars of how I've discussed UH being good for the immediate boost of our economy, they could afford to buy those things for themselves. Meaning that your argument is "don't enact Universal Healthcare because my taxes would be reduced!" Kind of a silly argument really.

 

[Indeependent]

Because the POOR get a LOT of their income from the Middle Class.
They get Homes, Smart Phones, TVs, Schools, "Free" Medical Care.
Please don't tell me you don't this.

Ah, a non sequitur. You're really invested in this "NO UH" campaign aren't you? Personally offends you. Do you work for a health insurance company or pharma?

Healthcare wouldn't be "an income". Besides, with more poor people having jobs as a direct result of the particulars of how I've discussed UH being good for the immediate boost of our economy, they could afford to buy those things for themselves. Meaning that your argument is "don't enact Universal Healthcare because my taxes would be reduced!" Kind of a silly argument really.

When's the last time you been to Detroit where they knocked down all the projects and now everybody owns a home?
When's the last time you been to Long Island where they knocked down all the projects and now everybody owns a home?
Get out once in a while.

 

[Andylusion]

I don't know what you are talking about, except that you are taking very small examples, and trying to apply it to everyone.

Very few CEOs of the dot.com bubble made millions while providing nothing. Very few. Similarly, investors were largely wiped out. Of course there were a few shady guys who created fake dot.companies, sold stock to investors, who knew it was a fake, let the price go up, and bailed out.

But there are always scams, and are always tiny isolated examples. And these people don't have anything left today anyway. They were scam artists. The few stories I've read about that, they are hiding in Latin America, and will never come back unless they are extradited.

Most of the bubble, was just a bubble. CEOs who invested heavily into companies that didn't make it, didn't walk out millionaires, unless perhaps they had other assets not tied to the company. Which means they earned it. Nor did investors who bought into it. Some had millions and ended up with thousands... again unless they had other investments that were successful.

The only people who are still wealthy from the dot.com bubble, are the companies which made it. Amazon, Google, and others. And they did earn what they have. You are wrong about that.

Oh please. We most certainly can afford infrastructure spending. It's not even that big of a deal. The problem isn't that we can't afford it. The problem is, we want to spend on other things.

It's just like most Americans could (before obamacare) easily afford health insurance. The average American spent twice as much on eating out, smart phones, TVs and cable, cars, and other entertainment (movies, football games, and so on). Similarly most Americans can easily afford to save for retirement. They would just rather have a beer, watch ESPN, and order a pizza, instead of save the money for retirement.

We can easily.... EASILY... afford all the infrastructure you could ever possibly want. Infrastructure spending today, is higher per-capita, than it was in the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, and 1940s. We spend more, per person, on infrastructure, than the European Union or the UK. Only Japan and Australia spend more.

But we would rather spend the money on special interest groups, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Green-Energy, Unions, Welfare, Food Stamps, and a million other programs.

The entire Department of Transportation budget was only $11 Billion. Let's take some of that $23 Billion in farm subsidies, and fix the pot holes. Can't do that, gotta subsidize farms, right? Or the education $38 Billion in education programs. Nope, can't cut that. Gotta have money for the education union.

See, you people want everything. Just give me everything. I want free this, and free that, and subsidized schools, and so on. Then you complain..."oh there's no money to fix the pot holes!". Whose fault is that? Yours. We could cut taxes by 50%, and still fund the military, and have enough money left over, to build every bridge you people could dream up AND pay off the national debt.

We just can't do it, and fund every program you want, and every Obama Phone, and every SNAP card, and every subsidy, and every government grant... . and then you want to blame the rich??? No no, the problem is in your mirror.

People are not making less and less. That's just another myth. Not true. You are factually incorrect.

The minimum wage people of today, live a life of almost luxury, compared to the minimum wage people of yesterday.

The average minimum wage worker, lives in dwelling of Air Conditioning and high speed internet, and nation wide communication, and owns two automobiles. Things that 30, 40 and 50 years ago, only the richest of the rich could afford.

It's simply a myth. Two minimum wage workers, are the top 1% of wager earners on the face of the Earth. You are complaining about a life that most people on this Earth consider to be legend and for royalty.

In fact, the average welfare check places you in the top 20% of wage earners in the world.... without earning a wage.
The Average US Welfare Payment Puts You In The Top 20% Of All Income Earners

You missed it. If you work at nearly all companies, you get company stock. You should care, because the person you are harming, by taxing the company.... IS YOU.

Now if you refuse to join the 401k, and the profit sharing plan.... THEN THE PROBLEM IS STILL YOU.

Either way... you are harming YOU by demanding companies pay higher tax.

We've been over this. Yes some companies are hiring immigrants. Some are hiring Indians or whatever. Again, you seem to take a few select examples, and try and apply it to everyone. There are hundreds of thousands of companies. There are not all, or even the majority, hiring only foreign workers.

Regardless, what does this have to do with anything? If you force companies to pay higher corporate taxes.... explain how that is magically going to get them to not hire foreigners? If anything higher taxes would force the company to look for ways to cut costs. One of which is to replace Americans with cheaper labor.

Beyond that even, you can't pay people more than the labor is worth. If the customer isn't willing to pay me $100 to mow their lawn, I can't hire an employee and pay them $100 to mow the lawn. I would go out of business.

If the value of the work you do, isn't worth $100,000 a year to the customer, then the company can't pay you $100,000 a year for that work. No tax policy you make up, is going to change that. It can only make that problem worse.

The wealthy have more influence. Yes. Of course they do. They have since the dawn of human existence. They have throughout all civilization. And they will continue to have, until the end of the Earth.

Even if you go to an isolated tribal people in the middle of the Congo... the person with the best hut, the most wives, and the most children, has the most influence over the tribal leadership.

If you are trying to tell me, that you can't be happy, or you think the country will end, unless we eliminate the influence of the wealthy on government.... then first the country should have imploded 200 years ago, second you should bend over, and kiss your own butt goodbye.

You are destined to be a miserable sad bitter person until you die. Because I can't guarantee much, but I would stake my entire life, and everything I have on this. You will never.... at any point... in this country, or any other... have a system where the wealthy do not have more influence than the rest of society.

No amount of laws. No amount of regulations. No policies you could ever dream up. Nothing will ever change this fact.

People do not tend to vote for impoverished beggars. Haven't seen a homeless bum yet, who ran for public office and won.

Middle class plumbers, don't have time, or the money, to run for public office. And middle class business owners, are busy..... running their business.

Only the successful and wealthy, run for office. And naturally wealthy and successful people, don't hang out with bums and homeless people. So your friends, and your network, is going to be wealthy people like you, when you get into office.

This is how it has always been, throughout all the world, and throughout all human history. It will never change. If this is the fight you want to fight, and the hill you are willing to die on... then get ready to die on a hill. You are not going to change this.

You are correct..
We CAN afford infrastructure.
As soon as we do what Ben Stein suggests...
Severely raise Income Tax on the uber-wealthy and Corporate Taxes.
Why does Ben Stein say this?
Because the Corporations, Directors and CEOs of MNCs are FLUSH with cash they'll never be able to spend in their lifetimes.

Throughout the late 90s and 2000s, Robert Reich was one of the paid shills telling us how destroying America would make it great.
Of course Reich never say "destroy", he simply said America would gain 5 indigenous careers for every H1-B; he DIDN'T say these careers would be janitors. He also didn't say that the H1-Bs who were fired after that received their Green Cards would replace the non-Indian H1-B janitors.
He told us Off-Shoring would stimulate more factories in the US...WRONG.
NOW Mr. Reich is not saying he was paid to LIE, he's saying his Economic Model was WRONG!

The other famous argument is that American corporations were moving overseas to pay lower taxes.
We find out NOW that these corporations are, for the most part, trying to get away with paying ZERO taxes.

No, my Neo-Con tool, NONE of your cherry picked arguments from Neo-Con sites can fool someone like myself who has been, thanks to my son, reading the same bullshit in Financial Publications that YOU have been reading.

Wrong again. We've already covered this. None of them, regardless of how much you think they are flush with cash, are going to pay the taxes you want.

How many times are you going to need to be shown this, before you figure it out? How many time do you need to have the examples posted to you over and over, before you stop claiming it will work?

Wealthy avoid taxes by moving assets to no-tax states

The wealthy are going to avoid your taxes. The higher you push up those taxes, the more they will avoid them.

I've posted hundreds of examples, from around the world, and now examples from within the United States.

They are not paying zero tax. You and your side, have been spewing that unsupportable, unprovable, allegation for a decade now.

Yeah, I'd like a list of names of people whose jobs were replaced by H1-B visas, and are now emptying garbage cans. Do show the exact numbers of this.

Sorry, but my cherry picked examples are dead on. Can compared to your ZERO examples, and endless proven false arguments, are far more compelling.

MNCs are NOT paying ZERO taxes in Australia and Ireland?
Shit man, pull out your damn smartphone and read a story once in a while.

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1f625176-bcf5-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#axzz4Jvy4QSa7

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

 

[thereisnospoon]

You're not a centrist by any means.
Or you're too young to remember how many people became multi-millionaires before cheap labor.

I absolutely am a centrist. Are you aware of my position on gay marriage and all the other LGBT cult dogma/issues?

I have one grandparent born in the 1800s, so I heard about things back in the day.

Centrist.....A term with no definition......

 

[Indeependent]

You are correct..
We CAN afford infrastructure.
As soon as we do what Ben Stein suggests...
Severely raise Income Tax on the uber-wealthy and Corporate Taxes.
Why does Ben Stein say this?
Because the Corporations, Directors and CEOs of MNCs are FLUSH with cash they'll never be able to spend in their lifetimes.

Throughout the late 90s and 2000s, Robert Reich was one of the paid shills telling us how destroying America would make it great.
Of course Reich never say "destroy", he simply said America would gain 5 indigenous careers for every H1-B; he DIDN'T say these careers would be janitors. He also didn't say that the H1-Bs who were fired after that received their Green Cards would replace the non-Indian H1-B janitors.
He told us Off-Shoring would stimulate more factories in the US...WRONG.
NOW Mr. Reich is not saying he was paid to LIE, he's saying his Economic Model was WRONG!

The other famous argument is that American corporations were moving overseas to pay lower taxes.
We find out NOW that these corporations are, for the most part, trying to get away with paying ZERO taxes.

No, my Neo-Con tool, NONE of your cherry picked arguments from Neo-Con sites can fool someone like myself who has been, thanks to my son, reading the same bullshit in Financial Publications that YOU have been reading.

Wrong again. We've already covered this. None of them, regardless of how much you think they are flush with cash, are going to pay the taxes you want.

How many times are you going to need to be shown this, before you figure it out? How many time do you need to have the examples posted to you over and over, before you stop claiming it will work?

Wealthy avoid taxes by moving assets to no-tax states

The wealthy are going to avoid your taxes. The higher you push up those taxes, the more they will avoid them.

I've posted hundreds of examples, from around the world, and now examples from within the United States.

They are not paying zero tax. You and your side, have been spewing that unsupportable, unprovable, allegation for a decade now.

Yeah, I'd like a list of names of people whose jobs were replaced by H1-B visas, and are now emptying garbage cans. Do show the exact numbers of this.

Sorry, but my cherry picked examples are dead on. Can compared to your ZERO examples, and endless proven false arguments, are far more compelling.

MNCs are NOT paying ZERO taxes in Australia and Ireland?
Shit man, pull out your damn smartphone and read a story once in a while.

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1f625176-bcf5-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#axzz4Jvy4QSa7

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

In other words, many corporations are NOT paying their taxes knowing that the host country is afraid they'll leave.
This is the gist of the articles on the CNN App concerning these companies.

Now explain to me again how destroying America is making America anything other than a 3rd World Nation.

 

[Indeependent]

You're not a centrist by any means.
Or you're too young to remember how many people became multi-millionaires before cheap labor.

I absolutely am a centrist. Are you aware of my position on gay marriage and all the other LGBT cult dogma/issues?

I have one grandparent born in the 1800s, so I heard about things back in the day.

Centrist.....A term with no definition......

It is more accurate to say that one does always align with one party or another.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Yep, old (and I mean OLD, the guy is 70!) "bankruptcy Donald" is going to get our corporations back and then they'll care for the masses...cuz...ya know...that's what they do!

GAWD... ignoramous trustimus maximus is the new political species I guess. Yep, "Trust Donald Trump!!"

Me though, I'm going with Article I, Section 8 where we can tax ourselves to provide necessities. Preserving human life is the rationale for approving police, fire and military budgets so the legal precedent exists there as well.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup, require a nominal copay each visit to discourage overuse. Sit back and watch the economy recover from a lethal nose dive.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup

At what rate?

 

[Andylusion]

Wrong again. We've already covered this. None of them, regardless of how much you think they are flush with cash, are going to pay the taxes you want.

How many times are you going to need to be shown this, before you figure it out? How many time do you need to have the examples posted to you over and over, before you stop claiming it will work?

Wealthy avoid taxes by moving assets to no-tax states

The wealthy are going to avoid your taxes. The higher you push up those taxes, the more they will avoid them.

I've posted hundreds of examples, from around the world, and now examples from within the United States.

They are not paying zero tax. You and your side, have been spewing that unsupportable, unprovable, allegation for a decade now.

Yeah, I'd like a list of names of people whose jobs were replaced by H1-B visas, and are now emptying garbage cans. Do show the exact numbers of this.

Sorry, but my cherry picked examples are dead on. Can compared to your ZERO examples, and endless proven false arguments, are far more compelling.

MNCs are NOT paying ZERO taxes in Australia and Ireland?
Shit man, pull out your damn smartphone and read a story once in a while.

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

Google shakes up European units in face of tougher rules - FT.com

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

In other words, many corporations are NOT paying their taxes knowing that the host country is afraid they'll leave.
This is the gist of the articles on the CNN App concerning these companies.

Now explain to me again how destroying America is making America anything other than a 3rd World Nation.

In other words, I can just make up that corporations are paying trillions in taxes, and that claim, is a legitimate argument, no matter what the facts are.

This is the gist of your post on this forum, concerning this topic.

Now explain to me, why you are asking me why you are supporting policies and ideologies that are destroying America, and making America like a 3rd world nation.

How would I know, why YOU are destroying the country?

See how this works? I'm taking your post, spinning it around and throwing it back in your face. Why? Because this is the 4th post in a row where I have posted facts, and you have responded with empty claims, and allegations.

From here on, I'm going to use your rules of debating. If empty claims and allegations is all you need, then empty claims and allegations is what I'll give you. You are destroying the entire country. Companies pay TRILLIONS in taxes all over the world. No need for facts. No need for evidence. I'll just say it, and now you have to defend yourself from my allegations.

You want to play it that way, then here we go.

Otherwise, you better start coughing up proof. I'll even tell you how to prove your claim. Look up the investor publications for any of these multinationals. Apple, Walmart, or whoever. You show me the publication that says they paid zero tax. If you think the publications are lying, then show me the law suits filed by investors for fraudulent investor publications.

Good luck. Until then, I'll just spew every empty baseless accusation you make, back in your face.

 

[Indeependent]

MNCs are NOT paying ZERO taxes in Australia and Ireland?
Shit man, pull out your damn smartphone and read a story once in a while.

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

Google shakes up European units in face of tougher rules - FT.com

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

In other words, many corporations are NOT paying their taxes knowing that the host country is afraid they'll leave.
This is the gist of the articles on the CNN App concerning these companies.

Now explain to me again how destroying America is making America anything other than a 3rd World Nation.

In other words, I can just make up that corporations are paying trillions in taxes, and that claim, is a legitimate argument, no matter what the facts are.

This is the gist of your post on this forum, concerning this topic.

Now explain to me, why you are asking me why you are supporting policies and ideologies that are destroying America, and making America like a 3rd world nation.

How would I know, why YOU are destroying the country?

See how this works? I'm taking your post, spinning it around and throwing it back in your face. Why? Because this is the 4th post in a row where I have posted facts, and you have responded with empty claims, and allegations.

From here on, I'm going to use your rules of debating. If empty claims and allegations is all you need, then empty claims and allegations is what I'll give you. You are destroying the entire country. Companies pay TRILLIONS in taxes all over the world. No need for facts. No need for evidence. I'll just say it, and now you have to defend yourself from my allegations.

You want to play it that way, then here we go.

Otherwise, you better start coughing up proof. I'll even tell you how to prove your claim. Look up the investor publications for any of these multinationals. Apple, Walmart, or whoever. You show me the publication that says they paid zero tax. If you think the publications are lying, then show me the law suits filed by investors for fraudulent investor publications.

Good luck. Until then, I'll just spew every empty baseless accusation you make, back in your face.

You have turned around nothing on me except for THEORIES that have PROVEN to be complete failures.
Tell me America is more prosperous now than it was in 1999.
The Economic Policies in place since 1999 and touted enthusiastically by Neo-Cons have created the economy we have today.
FACTS can NOT be ignored unless one lives in a VERY expensive Steel and Concrete Tower overlooking Wall Street.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You are correct..
We CAN afford infrastructure.
As soon as we do what Ben Stein suggests...
Severely raise Income Tax on the uber-wealthy and Corporate Taxes.
Why does Ben Stein say this?
Because the Corporations, Directors and CEOs of MNCs are FLUSH with cash they'll never be able to spend in their lifetimes.

Throughout the late 90s and 2000s, Robert Reich was one of the paid shills telling us how destroying America would make it great.
Of course Reich never say "destroy", he simply said America would gain 5 indigenous careers for every H1-B; he DIDN'T say these careers would be janitors. He also didn't say that the H1-Bs who were fired after that received their Green Cards would replace the non-Indian H1-B janitors.
He told us Off-Shoring would stimulate more factories in the US...WRONG.
NOW Mr. Reich is not saying he was paid to LIE, he's saying his Economic Model was WRONG!

The other famous argument is that American corporations were moving overseas to pay lower taxes.
We find out NOW that these corporations are, for the most part, trying to get away with paying ZERO taxes.

No, my Neo-Con tool, NONE of your cherry picked arguments from Neo-Con sites can fool someone like myself who has been, thanks to my son, reading the same bullshit in Financial Publications that YOU have been reading.

Wrong again. We've already covered this. None of them, regardless of how much you think they are flush with cash, are going to pay the taxes you want.

How many times are you going to need to be shown this, before you figure it out? How many time do you need to have the examples posted to you over and over, before you stop claiming it will work?

Wealthy avoid taxes by moving assets to no-tax states

The wealthy are going to avoid your taxes. The higher you push up those taxes, the more they will avoid them.

I've posted hundreds of examples, from around the world, and now examples from within the United States.

They are not paying zero tax. You and your side, have been spewing that unsupportable, unprovable, allegation for a decade now.

Yeah, I'd like a list of names of people whose jobs were replaced by H1-B visas, and are now emptying garbage cans. Do show the exact numbers of this.

Sorry, but my cherry picked examples are dead on. Can compared to your ZERO examples, and endless proven false arguments, are far more compelling.

MNCs are NOT paying ZERO taxes in Australia and Ireland?
Shit man, pull out your damn smartphone and read a story once in a while.

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1f625176-bcf5-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#axzz4Jvy4QSa7

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

"If the government would just raise taxes( on all of the people and businesses we deem politically unacceptable) all would be right with the world. And then we could all have free( fill in the blank)"....
This is the concept that drives the mind of the Progressive.
Examining the idea of "free"....On the left, this is a real possibility. That something of substance can be obtained free of charge.
Of course the reality is that the money to fund "free" has to come from somewhere.
The typical progressive response is "the government will pay for it". When it is pointed out the method by which government is funded, the tactic changes to "well, those really rich people" Presumably the low hanging fruit one percent.
I had this very discussion with my ultra left wing, niece who I describe as the dumbest smart person I have ever met. She was a brilliant student. 4.0, honors courses in high school, 1600 on the SAT's under the old system...But she is not capable of thinking her way out of wet paper bag if she was spotted the open end.
Anyway, when the subject of free college tuition was discussed I asked her from where the money would come to continue paying all those professors and the general cost of a university education...she replied with "the one percent"..I then pointed out to her two important facts. One, if the federal government did a 100% confiscation of all the earnings of those making over $300k per year, there would not be nearly enough to fund free college. I then wen to on to asked her how much time it would take before those with the ability to do so would begin to transfer their assets elsewhere as well as to curtail or even cease investing in business, stocks, binds other securities, etc. and basically bring the US economy to grinding halt....she had no real rebuttal.

 

[Indeependent]

Wrong again. We've already covered this. None of them, regardless of how much you think they are flush with cash, are going to pay the taxes you want.

How many times are you going to need to be shown this, before you figure it out? How many time do you need to have the examples posted to you over and over, before you stop claiming it will work?

Wealthy avoid taxes by moving assets to no-tax states

The wealthy are going to avoid your taxes. The higher you push up those taxes, the more they will avoid them.

I've posted hundreds of examples, from around the world, and now examples from within the United States.

They are not paying zero tax. You and your side, have been spewing that unsupportable, unprovable, allegation for a decade now.

Yeah, I'd like a list of names of people whose jobs were replaced by H1-B visas, and are now emptying garbage cans. Do show the exact numbers of this.

Sorry, but my cherry picked examples are dead on. Can compared to your ZERO examples, and endless proven false arguments, are far more compelling.

MNCs are NOT paying ZERO taxes in Australia and Ireland?
Shit man, pull out your damn smartphone and read a story once in a while.

So now it's not "Corporations are paying ZERO taxes!"... now it's "They are paying zero taxes in Australia and Ireland"?

And by the way, THEY ARE PAYING TAXES IN IRELAND. Flat out false. Pull your head out of your own ideology, so you can see the real world again.

You're not following what's going on with Apple.
And how Ireland is now planning to go after Google and the rest?
What's the matter, the WSJ is not covering those stories.
Neither is Barrons.

Yes, and they paid taxes in Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxumburg. They paid Billions in taxes.

This bonkers idea of yours, that they paid "zero taxes" is absolute mindless parroted crap.

Ireland, is the one fighting the EU against this tax imposition. Ireland understands the very concept that you have been arguing against this entire thread.

Ireland grasps that if they impose this massive tax on Apple.... Apple will leave. Apple has thousands on thousands of employees in Ireland, and they need the jobs, the growth, and the tax revenue that generates.

Yes in the short term, a $13 Billion dollar lump sum would be fantastic. But in the long term, after Apple pulls out, sells off their Ireland assets, lays off thousands of employees, closes it's Ireland offices, and leaves the country, that $13 Billions will be long gone, eaten up by the lost revenue of Apple leaving.

If YOU people would grasp that simple concept that the government of Ireland understands... then you wouldn't be asking how Ireland is going to go after Google. They are not. If anything Ireland fighting taking the money.

And it's Ironic that you mention Google, because Google is already taking steps to pull out of countries that are making hostile tax moves. Again, proving exactly what Ireland, and myself in this thread, have been saying.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1f625176-bcf5-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#axzz4Jvy4QSa7

Google is moving assets away from the taxes. Just as all companies do, in all places in the world.

How many times, how many examples, of documented proof... before you stop claiming we can just take the money from the rich? It's never worked. Your system has NEVER WORKED IN ALL HUMAN HISTORY.... and we have hundreds of counter examples.... yet you just 'derp' keep repeating the same failed idea over and over. Are you a parrot? Are you just a automated peon? Why don't you ever learn anything? I don't get it. What is with you?

"If the government would just raise taxes( on all of the people and businesses we deem politically unacceptable) all would be right with the world. And then we could all have free( fill in the blank)"....
This is the concept that drives the mind of the Progressive.
Examining the idea of "free"....On the left, this is a real possibility. That something of substance can be obtained free of charge.
Of course the reality is that the money to fund "free" has to come from somewhere.
The typical progressive response is "the government will pay for it". When it is pointed out the method by which government is funded, the tactic changes to "well, those really rich people" Presumably the low hanging fruit one percent.
I had this very discussion with my ultra left wing, niece who I describe as the dumbest smart person I have ever met. She was a brilliant student. 4.0, honors courses in high school, 1600 on the SAT's under the old system...But she is not capable of thinking her way out of wet paper bag if she was spotted the open end.
Anyway, when the subject of free college tuition was discussed I asked her from where the money would come to continue paying all those professors and the general cost of a university education...she replied with "the one percent"..I then pointed out to her two important facts. One, if the federal government did a 100% confiscation of all the earnings of those making over $300k per year, there would not be nearly enough to fund free college. I then wen to on to asked her how much time it would take before those with the ability to do so would begin to transfer their assets elsewhere as well as to curtail or even cease investing in business, stocks, binds other securities, etc. and basically bring the US economy to grinding halt....she had no real rebuttal.

Strong employment obviates the need for high taxes.

 

[Silhouette]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Me though, I'm going with Article I, Section 8 where we can tax ourselves to provide necessities. Preserving human life is the rationale for approving police, fire and military budgets so the legal precedent exists there as well.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup, require a nominal copay each visit to discourage overuse. Sit back and watch the economy recover from a lethal nose dive.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup

At what rate?

How many sales each day of those three categories of goods do you suppose are sold? I'd say probably 100s of millions of items per day, or close to it. An "x" cent tax on each of those sales would add up quickly. We'll let the mathematicians figure it out.

Plus don't forget the nominal co-pay for each visits. This amount could pay the actual working costs of the visit and not the inflated amount that the insurance racket has forced medical outlets to charge in order to get a percentage of the insurance coverage after the adjusters are done diddling with the numbers. That's why healthcare is so expensive; one of the reasons. The providers are in on the game.. Doctors and hospitals have figured out that "insurers only pay "x" dollars in percentage only of the bills. So they inflate the bills "x%" over and hope to get more than what they would've if it all was just done straight across. This racket would be done away with to cut costs even further.

 

[Indeependent]

I disagree with Silhouette in regards to the source of income to support UHC.
When the corporations comeback under President Trump they will offer Health Care as they have been doing since 50s or 60s.

Me though, I'm going with Article I, Section 8 where we can tax ourselves to provide necessities. Preserving human life is the rationale for approving police, fire and military budgets so the legal precedent exists there as well.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup, require a nominal copay each visit to discourage overuse. Sit back and watch the economy recover from a lethal nose dive.

Tax sodas, tobacco & booze sales every day, every cash register ringup

At what rate?

How many sales each day of those three categories of goods do you suppose are sold? I'd say probably 100s of millions of items per day, or close to it. An "x" cent tax on each of those sales would add up quickly. We'll let the mathematicians figure it out.

Plus don't forget the nominal co-pay for each visits. This amount could pay the actual working costs of the visit and not the inflated amount that the insurance racket has forced medical outlets to charge in order to get a percentage of the insurance coverage after the adjusters are done diddling with the numbers. That's why healthcare is so expensive; one of the reasons. The providers are in on the game.. Doctors and hospitals have figured out that "insurers only pay "x" dollars in percentage only of the bills. So they inflate the bills "x%" over and hope to get more than what they would've if it all was just done straight across. This racket would be done away with to cut costs even further.

Training in the Health Field is very expensive.
It costs a fortune to develop the tools of the trade.
The resultant Medical Care we receive is the result of knowledge, R&D, testing and delivery of products & services.