Trump can't secure the $454 million bond

[Procrustes Stretched]

The problem lies in the term "equitable relief". A disgorgement that is not a disgorgement is not "equitable relief". There are certain elements to qualify a monetary penalty as a disgorgement, and they are not met.

"Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace. Indeed, the common excuse that “everybody does it” is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules. Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that defendants have made all required payments on time; the next group of lenders to receive bogus statements might not be so lucky. New York means business in combating business fraud."

Read the full decision in Trump's New York civil fraud case

The judge's ruling orders former President Donald Trump and his company to pay $354 million in fines, plus almost $100 million in interest, and restricts Trump's business activities in the state.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[martybegan]

"Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace. Indeed, the common excuse that “everybody does it” is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules. Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that defendants have made all required payments on time; the next group of lenders to receive bogus statements might not be so lucky. New York means business in combating business fraud."

Read the full decision in Trump's New York civil fraud case

The judge's ruling orders former President Donald Trump and his company to pay $354 million in fines, plus almost $100 million in interest, and restricts Trump's business activities in the state.

www.cbsnews.com

These deals did nothing negative to the marketplace.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Not true. He can appeal it. He can also take it to the Supreme Court as a violation of the 8th Amendment.

Wrong again. What do you imagine could be taken to the US Supreme Court, the NY state law that has allowed the formula used? The way the monetary penalty was arrived at is not unusual. What is unusual is the amount itself. But the behavior or the Trumps and others involved is unusual.


Stop making shit up.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

These deals did nothing negative to the marketplace.

Your opinion is noted, but...

Realities being what they are, it's about the marketplace in NY state.

The judge said in his ruling that the former president’s “complete lack of contrition” bordered on pathological.

"Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological,” he said. He also noted that Mr. Trump had not committed violent crimes and also conceded that “Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff.” Still, he wrote, “defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways.”

NYT:
Even though the lenders made money from Mr. Trump, they were the purported victims in the case, with Ms. James arguing that without his fraud, they could have made even more.

The financial penalty reflects those lost profits, with nearly half of the $355 million — $168 million — representing the interest that Mr. Trump saved, and the remaining sum representing his profit on the recent sale of two properties, money that the judge has now clawed back from Mr. Trump and corporate entities he owns.

 

[martybegan]

Your opinion is noted, but...

Realities being what they are, it's about the marketplace in NY state.

The judge said in his ruling that the former president’s “complete lack of contrition” bordered on pathological.

"Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological,” he said. He also noted that Mr. Trump had not committed violent crimes and also conceded that “Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff.” Still, he wrote, “defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways.”

NYT:
Even though the lenders made money from Mr. Trump, they were the purported victims in the case, with Ms. James arguing that without his fraud, they could have made even more.

The financial penalty reflects those lost profits, with nearly half of the $355 million — $168 million — representing the interest that Mr. Trump saved, and the remaining sum representing his profit on the recent sale of two properties, money that the judge has now clawed back from Mr. Trump and corporate entities he owns.

The fact that other real estate developers now know the government will come after them if they don't like them for something everyone does, i.e. negotiates the value of collateral, will do actual damage to NY's economy.

The NYT's argument is the same stupidity that the Madoff victims were due more than their investment due to Madoff's "supposed" gains. It's non existent money.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Incorrect. Its not a matter of willingness, its a matter of the size. No bonding agent can float that bond. It was set higher than any company or man has ever received from a NY court.

You shouldnt be cheering this on. This behavior is a nation destroyer. It wont stop now. Both sides WILL be doing this to the other side going forward.

It's not about the nation. It's about doing business in the state of NY. And NY will not be losing anything.

A bond agent could and would issue the bond, if Trump was going to put up assets that had value that wouldn't fluctuate so quickly as Trump's properties, and assets that could be liquidated quickly. Bond companies want to make $$$, not speculate on the value of a NY Blowhard's value

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The fact that other real estate developers now know the government will come after them if they don't like them for something everyone does, i.e. negotiates the value of collateral, will do actual damage to NY's economy.

The NYT's argument is the same stupidity that the Madoff victims were due more than their investment due to Madoff's "supposed" gains. It's non existent money.

Wrong.

next

 

[para bellum]

Maybe. But it doesn't look like anyone's willing to back the bond. So he's in a bit of trouble.

The bond is impossible to get without full collateral in cash or negotiable securities. No issuer accepts real estate for collateral because it is not liquid. Surety companies are not in the real estate business and no reinsurer will cover the bond if it's collateralized by real estate.

Since most of Trump's assets are tied up in real estate, and he needs operating capital to run his businesses, he would need about $1 Bn in cash to get a bond that size.

The appellate court will either reduce the bond to a reasonable amount, or just issue a stay without a bond. That is their discretion.

The interim stay was granted because the non-monetary penalties imposed on Trump (banning him from conducting business or banking in New York) are not available as remedies under 63(12).

 

[para bellum]

"Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace. Indeed, the common excuse that “everybody does it” is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules. Here, despite the false financial statements, it is undisputed that defendants have made all required payments on time; the next group of lenders to receive bogus statements might not be so lucky. New York means business in combating business fraud."

Cool story bro, but no harm was shown and "everybody does it" was not part of the defense.

The State is perfectly within their rights to enjoin the Trump organization from the "fraudulent behavior", and they can fine them for the business practice violations. To go beyond that they have to show harm and establish causation, neither of which condition has been met.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

The bond is impossible to get without full collateral in cash or negotiable securities. No issuer accepts real estate for collateral because it is not liquid. Surety companies are not in the real estate business and no reinsurer will cover the bond if it's collateralized by real estate.

Since most of Trump's assets are tied up in real estate, and he needs operating capital to run his businesses, he would need about $1 Bn in cash to get a bond that size.

The appellate court will either reduce the bond to a reasonable amount, or just issue a stay without a bond. That is their discretion.

The interim stay was granted because the non-monetary penalties imposed on Trump (banning him from conducting business or banking in New York) are not available as remedies under 63(12).

Matters not a lick. He either puts up the bond, or the state can begin seizing his assets to pay the fine.
I'm not sure what you are talking about "an interim stay". A judge overruled this in February.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Cool story bro, but no harm was shown and "everybody does it" was not part of the defense.

The State is perfectly within their rights to enjoin the Trump organization from the "fraudulent behavior", and they can fine them for the business practice violations. To go beyond that they have to show harm and establish causation, neither of which condition has been met.

calling out bs

and

opinion masquerading as fact

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Matters not a lick. He either puts up the bond, or the state can begin seizing his assets to pay the fine.
I'm not sure what you are talking about "an interim stay". A judge overruled this in February.

This para bellum sounds like a sock puppet here, playing at being knowledgeable in the law- specifically NY state law.

 

[whitehall]

This is pure Banana Republic tactics sanctioned by the media and the crazy TDS left. Trump built New York and the socialist fascist left wants to take it away from him because he is a political threat.

 

[martybegan]

Wrong.

next

Everything about this is an end run around criminal prosecution, normal civil litigation, and the basic understanding of due process at the State and Federal levels. This law has never been used before without an underlying criminal conviction.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

but no harm was shown

Lie.

$168 million in lost interest alone.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Everything about this is an end run around criminal prosecution, normal civil litigation, and the basic understanding of due process at the State and Federal levels. This law has never been used before without an underlying criminal conviction.

Please , a credible link

 

[Godboy]

He is appealing it. But he needs to put up the 454M to prevent his assets from being seized.
The Supreme Court will have nothing to do with this civil case.

Its an 8th Amendment case. A very good one in fact. They didnt like his appraisal so they fined him more money than any company or individual in history? You can act like thats fair, but its not.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Lie.

$168 million in lost interest alone.

and the figure $454 includes interest. Trump tried to stall and play his games, but interest was accruing. His bad

Trump: Law being used in New York fraud trial may not be constitutional

Following a court appearance for a civil fraud trial in New York, former President Trump took to social media Tuesday morning and alleged the law being used in the trial “may not be Constitut…

thehill.com

 

[martybegan]

Please , a credible link

Unlike you I can think for myself and form my own opinions of things.

I also realize my opinions are just that, unlike your ilk who parade your misguided opinions as fact.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Its an 8th Amendment case. A very good one in fact. They didnt like his appraisal so they fined him more money than any company or individual in history? You can act like thats fair, but its not.

Again, the SC will have nothing to do with this case. The State of NY decided there was fraud committed in this case, and he got fined. He can appeal but if he wants a stay, he'll have to pony up the cash.