Trump Has A First Amendment Right To Say The Election Was Stolen

[Markle]

Some of us are normal adults and prefer reading things that have words instead of pictures.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Flopper]

I too believe it will be difficult to convict. This country hasn't been this divided since the Civil War. Getting 12 people to agree on conviction if the evidence proves he's guilty is near impossible if there's even one Trump supporter on that jury. I'm feeling like the most likeliest outcome of the trial will be a hung jury.

I think Trump will be found guilty of falsifying business records but as misdemeanors, not felonies. The evidence supporting this is very strong. The evidence that links other crimes which makes falsifying business records a felony may be a difficult sell. Bragg mentioned attempting to violate federal elections laws. The problem is that the FBI elected not to charge Trump on election law violations. There are also other violation by Cohen on behalf of Trump. Much will depend on Cohen's testimony which links trump. However his testimony. has not proven to be that reliable.

 

[Flopper]

I mentioned that possibility earlier, also the possibility that the AP and GL entries could be considered one payment, and therefore only one count rather than two. Then it would be 17 counts instead of 34.

But those are the only reasons I could think of that would permit something other than an "all or nothing" verdict.

Yes, it's very interesting. I don't know how that has been allowed to stand. The "other crimes" are predicate to the felony charge, and are not specified in the indictment.

The defense does not know what "other crime" it is being accused of. You can't just charge someone and tell them "we'll tell you your crimes at the trial"...

Generally prosecutors will present only as much evidence as needed to the Grand Jury to get an indictment. In this indictment there is no evidence to support the felony charges. Bragg will have to give the defense that evidence under Discovery very soon.

I wonder what kind of law the two jurors practice. Even if it is not criminal law, they will most likely be able to determine if Bragg has proved his case. I suspect one or both of them will be important in guiding the jury to a decision. It will take all twelve to convict.

 

[para bellum]

Generally prosecutors will present only as much evidence as needed to the Grand Jury to get an indictment. In this indictment there is no evidence to support the felony charges. Bragg will have to give the defense that evidence under Discovery very soon.

The Indictment is supposed to list the charges though. I will have to look at the complete case record and see if a demurrer was filed.

I wonder what kind of law the two jurors practice. Even if it is not criminal law, they will most likely be able to determine if Bragg has proved his case. I suspect one or both of them will be important in guiding the jury to a decision. It will take all twelve to convict.

One is in civil litigation, one is corporate law. They are both with large law firms. I think it was Politico that outed them (the firms, not the individuals), I don't recall for sure.

 

[Markle]

Say what you want …the fact isn that this bastard is going to be shown on trial every day he goes to court … a n he really is and these maga fool might see the light … what he really is … that’s a narcissist basters… they will see that he could care less about anyone accept himself … you can say how hard it might be to convict … the fact remains there are 34 counts against him and they are all felonies … he’s going to jail …
the least charge felony will get him 4 years and that’s priceless do say what you want he’s going to jail he’s not going to be the next president the only thing he will become is a felon…

I'm saddened by the fact that the far-left has been so discredited as to be forced into Banana Republic tactics. Historically, no political party has resorted to imprisoning and prosecuting opponents for imaginary crimes.

It is a tragedy and a low point for our country. If President Trump were so terrible, it would seem straightforward for the Democrats to defeat him at the ballot box.

Democrats are working 24/7/365 in a futile attempt to hide the great successes of President Trump from the electorate.

 

[para bellum]

Bragg will have to give the defense that evidence under Discovery very soon.

This- they are seating the jury. Opening statements are next. Discovery should be long concluded by now.

 

[Seymour Flops]

An NDA is a legal binding contract to prevent disclosure. That is not in question. Just like any contract, a lawyer creates and arranges execution and is due a fee for his services. That is certainly a legal expense. However, the funds exchanged between the parties of the contract are not legal expenses. I don't know what business expense category you enter paying off prostitutes' and strippers but it is certainly not a legal expense.

I don’t see why not. The hundred something grand is a relative chump change for Trump. He just had to have his lawyer pay more to the hooker to not lie to the national enquirer than they were going to pay her to lie.

He had a legal issue, he paid his lawyer to handle it. It was noted as a legal expense. No way they get twelve jurors to say that was a felony. But that’s why Bragg didn’t want to push the case. As a Harvard man, he didn’t want to embarrass himself like that.

The other problem is convincing the jury that Trump himself made the entry as the indikement states. That is laughable.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The hundred something grand is a relative chump change for Trump.

Then why did he illegally write it off as a legal expense for his business?

 

[Flopper]

Now we are conflating the second impeachment with the Special Council's investigation?

The House impeached Trump for "incitement of insurrection", which is a made-up offense (something that dems are very fond of, and which Trump was acquitted of in the Senate).

If you have a statement from Smith that says he didn't charge insurrection because of the First Amendment, I'd like to see it.

The rest of Smith's charges are about Trump challenging the validity of the election, which was his right (and he is not the first to do that).

Whether or not that case will move forward will be dependent on the SCOTUS.

SCOTUS is not planning on rendering a ruling until early July when they go on recess. There is no trial date set for that Jan 6th trial. Aug 1 is the tentative date for the Classified Document trial. I can't see how this trial is effected. All the charges are based on what Trump did after he left office.

There is no way SCOTUS will give this president and future presidents full immunity from the law. The whole purpose of the Trump immunity case is to delay the trials. Apparently that is what the high court wants.

 

[Rambunctious]

The mother of all backfires is coming tards... and its going to be sweet.... if anyone deserves to lose its the poor excuse for Americans on the left....

 

[para bellum]

SCOTUS is not planning on rendering a ruling until early July when they go on recess.

There is no way SCOTUS will give this president and future presidents full immunity from the law. The whole purpose of the Trump immunity case is to delay the trials. Apparently that is what the high court wants.

Oral arguments are set for next Thursday, we may have at least some sense which way the court leans after that.

The business about impeachments and double-jeopardy is a non-starter, imo. The election challenges are harder to predict. Certainly the executive branch has some interest in the conduct of elections via the Take Care clause.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The mother of all backfires is coming tards... and its going to be sweet.... if anyone deserves to lose its the poor excuse for Americans on the left....

The total list of people who are scared of your dumb fantasy:

 

[Flopper]

I'm saddened by the fact that the far-left has been so discredited as to be forced into Banana Republic tactics. Historically, no political party has resorted to imprisoning and prosecuting opponents for imaginary crimes.

It is a tragedy and a low point for our country. If President Trump were so terrible, it would seem straightforward for the Democrats to defeat him at the ballot box.

Democrats are working 24/7/365 in a futile attempt to hide the great successes of President Trump from the electorate.

You been drinking too much of the Trump Kool-Aid here on USMB. The Democrat party is not prosecuting Trump nor will they determine his guilt or innocence.

Trump is difficult to beat because he has an uncanny ability to determine what people want to hear and he can lie to them with such sincerity and conviction, that he is hard not to believe. Never mind the fact that most of what he says, would be almost impossible. His people don't seem care.

I've been to a Trump rally and it's like going to a tent rival. He would make a great evangelical preacher if he could keep from mixing up the old and new testament.

 

[Markle]

Then why did he illegally write it off as a legal expense for his business?

Wouldn't he then be charged with tax fraud? You know, like Al Capone.

 

[Markle]

You been drinking too much of the Trump Kool-Aid here on USMB. The Democrat party is not prosecuting Trump nor will they determine his guilt or innocence.

Either you are incredibly naive, stupid, or a troll. I don't think you're stupid.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Wow. This is the most pathetic defense of Trump's criminal behavior yet.

Denying his constitutional rights is your criminal behavior

 

[Faun]

I think Trump will be found guilty of falsifying business records but as misdemeanors, not felonies. The evidence supporting this is very strong. The evidence that links other crimes which makes falsifying business records a felony may be a difficult sell. Bragg mentioned attempting to violate federal elections laws. The problem is that the FBI elected not to charge Trump on election law violations. There are also other violation by Cohen on behalf of Trump. Much will depend on Cohen's testimony which links trump. However his testimony. has not proven to be that reliable.

The prosecution claims to have other evidence, besides Cohen's testimony, of Trump conspiring with Cohen to hush Stormy Daniels because of the looming election. If they produce that in court, it's a game changer. But again, if there's even one Trumper on the jury, it doesn't matter what the evidence exposes. Fifth Avenuers like that will hold out until their dying breath.

 

[Faun]

I'm saddened by the fact that the far-left has been so discredited as to be forced into Banana Republic tactics. Historically, no political party has resorted to imprisoning and prosecuting opponents for imaginary crimes.

It is a tragedy and a low point for our country. If President Trump were so terrible, it would seem straightforward for the Democrats to defeat him at the ballot box.

Democrats are working 24/7/365 in a futile attempt to hide the great successes of President Trump from the electorate.

Until J6, no U.S. president ever attempted to steal the election they lost.

 

[Faun]

This- they are seating the jury. Opening statements are next. Discovery should be long concluded by now.

Jury selection is over. Opening statements begin on Monday.

 

[Faun]

The mother of all backfires is coming tards... and its going to be sweet.... if anyone deserves to lose its the poor excuse for Americans on the left....

LOL

Aren't you the idiot who predicted Biden was dropping out of the race??

Spoiler

Yes. Yes, you are that idiot.