Trump is Killing the Democrat Party

[Pogo]

You can't pigeonhole yourself in a voting booth. Granted one can do all kinds of things to oneself in private, but the guy who draws the curtain, waits a moment and yells "HEY! THERE'S NO TOILET PAPER IN HERE" is making an appropriate comment on the system, nothing more.

Being a "member" of a party is an abstract, something of which you advise either your registration board (in some states) or a pollster. Unless you're actually employed by that party, it has no meaning. Nobody needs to be a registered "member" of a party to vote for or against that party with the exception of some primary elections (again in some states), which are a meaningless farce anyway. You can "identify" as a "member" of party X today, a "member" of party Y tomorrow, and not a member of anything the next day. It means nothing heavier than "four out of five doctors".

This entire "X is a Republican, Y is a Democrat" charade is meaningless rhetorical tripe that serves no purpose beyond fomenting dichotomy disease and division. Right up down there with the bullshitious "red states" and "blue states".

That does not change what I stated as it relates to your statement.

"that both parties have been losing "members" for years, as "must-obey-and-join-club" robots figure out that there's no point in it and that we Indies outnumber both of you. And that isn't new. Check your own link, it's all there."

^this does not seem to be true considering that hard partisanship and the "must-obey-and-join-club" in the only expression that matters, voting, seems to be alive and well.

In this thread the only expression that matters is actually party "identification". That's the actual topic.

"Voting patterns" would be a whole 'nother topic. The two are not related. Again, nobody needs to change their "party identification" to vote for anybody. In practical terms such "identification" serves no purpose. That's why I don't do it.

Indeed. I don't vote for Republicans because I am a Republican, because I am not.

I vote for Republicans not because they are so wonderful and trustworthy, but because Democrats are anti-American shit and offer absolutely nothing that interests me, as opposed to the Republicans who at least make an attempt to forward policies with which I approve.

Indeed, I don't vote for blanket statements because they're inherently mindless.

Here's the thing that's apparently a big-ass secret: Any conglomeration of any group, political or otherwise, is going to be comprised of individuals. And individuals vary. That's an aspect of being what we call "human".

Thank you for your support of Citizens United.

For those in the robot world though, YMMV.

I'll just toss this out here yet again, since it never gets answered. The sheriff in my town (for just one example) has run for his office as a Democrat, and as a Republican. It's the same guy doing the same job in the same way. You actually believe that his whole (lack of) personality underwent massive shifts depending on whether he put a D or an R after his name. That's so cute.

See also Strom Thurmond. Arlen Specter. Whatzisname in Michigan recently. Frank Rizzo. Ray Nagin. Richard Shelby. Jesse Helms. David Duke. Charlie Crist. Sonny Perdue. Trent Lott. Ronald Reagan. Hillary Rodham. Etc etc etc. Whole lotta personality changes goin' on.

It is the nature of humans to support that which gives best advantage to their subjective opinions. When that once supported no longer serves, a change is in order.

It's a very simple fact. Confusing for you, eh?

The current difference between the two most popular parties is that the Democrats have abandoned all pretense of supporting the Constitution as the foundational law of the United States, and that difference becomes more clear with each passing day.

And thank you for affirming my point about Blanket Generalizatiions and in the process shooting your own fallacy in its metaphorical foot.

Didn't hurt at all, did it.

 

[Pogo]

Funny how you have "both" parties in the 20s and you can only see one of them. Your own link proves yet again what I've been telling you sheep for years --- that both parties have been losing "members" for years, as "must-obey-and-join-club" robots figure out that there's no point in it and that we Indies outnumber both of you. And that isn't new. Check your own link, it's all there.

So rotsa ruck keeping that juvenile treehouse fantasy alive, take some extra hallucinogens and click your heels together. Bwahahhaha..........

I wish this were true but I no longer think this is the case. While people are beginning to refuse to pigeon hole themselves in a single party openly, they are doing so in the voting booth MORE.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/17/is-split-ticket-voting-officially-dead/

Party membership sinking seems to be utterly unconnected with reality. The only reason I can attribute to this is that Americans seem more interested in appearing to not be a robot more than they actually want to think. I think it is a pretty far reach to think that straight party tickets represent 'independents' very often .

I would posit that this is actually harming the political process even further by leaving the nut jobs in the parties but the more moderate people dropping affiliation. In places where the primaries are closed this will cause some very unfortunate circumstances IMHO.

You can't pigeonhole yourself in a voting booth. Granted one can do all kinds of things to oneself in private, but the guy who draws the curtain, waits a moment and yells "HEY! THERE'S NO TOILET PAPER IN HERE" is making an appropriate comment on the system, nothing more.

Being a "member" of a party is an abstract, something of which you advise either your registration board (in some states) or a pollster. Unless you're actually employed by that party, it has no meaning. Nobody needs to be a registered "member" of a party to vote for or against that party with the exception of some primary elections (again in some states), which are a meaningless farce anyway. You can "identify" as a "member" of party X today, a "member" of party Y tomorrow, and not a member of anything the next day. It means nothing heavier than "four out of five doctors".

This entire "X is a Republican, Y is a Democrat" charade is meaningless rhetorical tripe that serves no purpose beyond fomenting dichotomy disease and division. Right up down there with the bullshitious "red states" and "blue states".

That does not change what I stated as it relates to your statement.

"that both parties have been losing "members" for years, as "must-obey-and-join-club" robots figure out that there's no point in it and that we Indies outnumber both of you. And that isn't new. Check your own link, it's all there."

^this does not seem to be true considering that hard partisanship and the "must-obey-and-join-club" in the only expression that matters, voting, seems to be alive and well.

In this thread the only expression that matters is actually party "identification". That's the actual topic.

"Voting patterns" would be a whole 'nother topic. The two are not related. Again, nobody needs to change their "party identification" to vote for anybody. In practical terms such "identification" serves no purpose. That's why I don't do it.

Of course they are related. Intamately.

You contended that:
"Your own link proves yet again what I've been telling you sheep for years --- that both parties have been losing "members" for years, as "must-obey-and-join-club" robots figure out that there's no point in it and that we Indies outnumber both of you. And that isn't new. Check your own link, it's all there."

I contend that only looks to be true on the surface. While those people are not identifying with the party anymore, they are not becoming 'indies.' The voting patters show that they essentially are members. Why people are choosing to not identify or identify as independent but still vote like party robots is somewhat mystifying to me BUT the evidence seems to show that with fewer 'members,' hard line party ticket voting is increasing.

Further, the "must-obey-and-join-club robots" as you put it are certainly not going to see "there's no point" in party when the voting patters are showing that people are being more 'loyal' to the party no matter what affiliation they are claiming.

On the contrary they are distinctly different. Understanding that by "they" we speak of the contrast between on the one hand the idea of self-identifying as "Party X/Party Y" and on the other hand self-identifying as "I don' need no steenking party". In both cases the individual may in any given election vote for Party X, Party Y, Party Z, or no party at all, so in the scheme of actual voting patterns, self-identification means nothing, literally ZERO.

Ultimately what this otherwise-meaningless poll tells us is that the trend is to the latter, i.e. away from self-identification with any party, an increasing awareness that such self-identification is in fact meaningless. To the extent that that indicates some decline of tribalism, that psychological trait being the only plausible impetus remaining for such self-identification at all, this trend is a positive. On the other hand the OP's short-sampled cherrypicking of a short time frame pretending "oh look, the enemy tribe is declining" is utter poppycock, and indeed, uttering poppycock is exactly what he did by posting it, which is why it got described as such.

It would be tempting to conclude that a declining number of self-identifiers with "Party Y" means that more self-identifiers of that group have figured out the bullshitiousness of tribalism than have those of "Party X", but again, too small a sample size for too short a period.

So the point stands --- the topic here, lame as it is, is about party registration, not voting patterns. The two were, are, and will remain, unrelated.

 

[busybee01]

Is Trump killing them, or are they self-imploding?

His election just gave them a big push over the edge. They've been heading that way for decades but Trump had everything to do with it. The left hated GW too, but he was to spineless.

All this protesting, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and carrying on by the left is music to my ears. It's the death-rattle of the Progressive movement, liberalism, and socialism. It's not going to go quietly into the night but by God, it's going to go.

GW was a RINO and his kid was just a little bit less of a RINO. Trump is a Business man and a doer of stuff. This is what a President should be no matter what party they are connected with. Identify the problems fix the problems. Congress tho seems to like it the old way.....Pass special bills and sit on their hands.

Dysfunction is the GOP Congressional way, stupid. All they care about is cutting taxes on the bloated rich and cutting services for the non-rich. Wake up and smell the coffee super duper....in 2020 either the Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate and real control or it's time for the nuclear option. then you will finally find out what Democrats want instead of a bunch of garbage propaganda.... So will duped Independents....

/—-/ Oh like shoving Obozocare down our throat when the majority said we didn’t want it? The Green New Deal that will wreck our economy? Open borders and free stuff for illegals? Yeah, we can hardly wait for you clowns to seize control.

Republicans tried to shove their healthcare bill down the throats of Americans and they overwhelmingly rejected it. That is why Democrats have a huge advantage on healthcare. Obamacare is more popular than Trump. Even some rational Republicans admit that they need a less drastic plan on global warming. Again voters overwhelmingly oppose Trump on border policy and immigration.

 

[Terri4Trump]

Actually, Democrats are doing this to themselves. I expect the trend to continue.

October 2016: 32% identified as Democrat

July 2019: 27% identify as Democrats

Party Affiliation
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