Trump is putting coal workers out of work

[martybegan]

Define "prop up".

In 2019, electric utilities across the country retired or converted roughly 15,100 megawatts, or MW, of coal-fired electricity generation, according to Reuters


The precipitous decline in coal-powered electricity is largely the result of far cheaper alternative sources of energy, including wind, solar and natural gas. In the first half of 2019, coal-generated power dropped 13 percent, and electricity from solar alone grew by 10 percent. Over the past decade, the cost for solar and wind power fell by nearly 90 percent and 70 percent, respectively.

“Telling the truth may be a foreign concept to President Trump, but the stark realities facing the coal industry and the jobs evaporating along with it are surely not lost on those struggling communities in coal country,” said EWG President Ken Cook. “It is hard to find another group of Americans the president has lied to more often than coal miners and their families.”

Report: Coal-Power Plant Closures Near Record High Under Trump

If the pace of U.S. coal-fired power plant closures in 2019 continues throughout 2020, more plants will have shut down during President Trump's first term than during President Obama's second term, according to data compiled by the federal government and Reuters.

www.ewg.org

Trump rolled back nearly all the Obama era regulations on coal. And it didn't help.

How many of those plants planned to close while the regulations were been phased back? How many were still on the books because of lawsuits?

And natural gas may be the main reason, adding wind and solar is dishonest.

 

[colfax_m]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

Define "prop up".

This was the original plan.

Rick Perry’s plan to subsidize coal and nuclear plants is bonkers

By keeping uncompetitive plants open, it would blow up energy markets.

www.vox.com

 

[martybegan]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

Define "prop up".

This was the original plan.

Rick Perry’s plan to subsidize coal and nuclear plants is bonkers

By keeping uncompetitive plants open, it would blow up energy markets.

www.vox.com

Kind of like how Obama propped up wind and solar

 

[BluesLegend]

But here's the thing. Trump didn't put any new regulations, and repealled the ones that were there, and the Coal industry has continued to decline, anyway.

The real problem is, the technology is dirty and obsolete.

Wrong, the OP's article cites, "more stringent air quality regulations, and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia” as the primary sources of the industry’s current woes."

There is a weaker demand because like it or not the world is moving away from coal because it's dirty and becoming obsolete.

Said nobody in China.

Nobody?

Beijing shuts last coal-fired power plant in bid to clear air

LMAO apparently you didn't read the 2nd line of your own link, "But capital still relies on polluting energy sources in other provinces for part of its energy needs "

It does. I didn't say we were done with dirty energy. I said there was less of a demand. That's exactly what my article states.

They just moved it away from the city. When the world stops using coal call us, until then stop trying to ban it. In fact what is this liberal fetish with banning things??

I also never argued to ban it. I'm arguing to move away from it.

Define moving away from it, making it so ridiculously expensive and difficult with government regulations that you effectively ban it would be my guess.

Should it be regulated? Absolutely. Does regulations make it more expensive? Absolutely. Even with regulations we had a total disregard for anything but the bottom line out of Don Blankenship. Just think how bad it would be without them.

A brand new coal mine was days from opening in West Virginia. They had spent millions of dollars and years complying with every government regulation. Just days before opening Obama shut the mine down with a stack of new government regulations designed specifically to kill that mine. The two DEM senators were furious and sent Obama a strongly worded letter to no avail. The fact is Democrats have weaponized government regulations to destroy industries they don't like.

Meanwhile Democrats are obliterating the environment and routinely breaking their own pollution laws and it's total crickets.

Internet stories. Gather round everyone.

It's a matter of public record you retard.

Heard that one before. Lots of times.

You are beyond ignorant.

Of what? You’re totally true internet stories?

When 2 US Dem senators send a letter to a POTUS there's a record dumb ass. Go play with your gender confused Ken doll, adults are talking.

 

[colfax_m]

But here's the thing. Trump didn't put any new regulations, and repealled the ones that were there, and the Coal industry has continued to decline, anyway.

The real problem is, the technology is dirty and obsolete.

Wrong, the OP's article cites, "more stringent air quality regulations, and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia” as the primary sources of the industry’s current woes."

There is a weaker demand because like it or not the world is moving away from coal because it's dirty and becoming obsolete.

Said nobody in China.

Nobody?

Beijing shuts last coal-fired power plant in bid to clear air

LMAO apparently you didn't read the 2nd line of your own link, "But capital still relies on polluting energy sources in other provinces for part of its energy needs "

It does. I didn't say we were done with dirty energy. I said there was less of a demand. That's exactly what my article states.

They just moved it away from the city. When the world stops using coal call us, until then stop trying to ban it. In fact what is this liberal fetish with banning things??

I also never argued to ban it. I'm arguing to move away from it.

Define moving away from it, making it so ridiculously expensive and difficult with government regulations that you effectively ban it would be my guess.

Should it be regulated? Absolutely. Does regulations make it more expensive? Absolutely. Even with regulations we had a total disregard for anything but the bottom line out of Don Blankenship. Just think how bad it would be without them.

A brand new coal mine was days from opening in West Virginia. They had spent millions of dollars and years complying with every government regulation. Just days before opening Obama shut the mine down with a stack of new government regulations designed specifically to kill that mine. The two DEM senators were furious and sent Obama a strongly worded letter to no avail. The fact is Democrats have weaponized government regulations to destroy industries they don't like.

Meanwhile Democrats are obliterating the environment and routinely breaking their own pollution laws and it's total crickets.

Internet stories. Gather round everyone.

It's a matter of public record you retard.

Heard that one before. Lots of times.

You are beyond ignorant.

Of what? You’re totally true internet stories?

When 2 US Dem senators send a letter to a POTUS there's a record dumb ass. Go play with your gender confused Ken doll, adults are talking.

Sure they did. It’s very smart to believe everything random people on the internet say.

 

[colfax_m]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

Define "prop up".

This was the original plan.

Rick Perry’s plan to subsidize coal and nuclear plants is bonkers

By keeping uncompetitive plants open, it would blow up energy markets.

www.vox.com

Kind of like how Obama propped up wind and solar

Well, yeah. The difference being there was a substantial societal benefit to promoting clean energy.

 

[martybegan]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

Define "prop up".

This was the original plan.

Rick Perry’s plan to subsidize coal and nuclear plants is bonkers

By keeping uncompetitive plants open, it would blow up energy markets.

www.vox.com

Kind of like how Obama propped up wind and solar

Well, yeah. The difference being there was a substantial societal benefit to promoting clean energy.

"substantial social benefit" is an objective term, nothing more, and basically a fudge factor that's just a way to say "When I do it, it's OK because of X".

Progressives create an ambiguous threat that can't be measured or determined, and then say some intangible benefit is why we have to spend X, ban X, prevent X, and of course do it all through socialism.

 

[colfax_m]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

Define "prop up".

This was the original plan.

Rick Perry’s plan to subsidize coal and nuclear plants is bonkers

By keeping uncompetitive plants open, it would blow up energy markets.

www.vox.com

Kind of like how Obama propped up wind and solar

Well, yeah. The difference being there was a substantial societal benefit to promoting clean energy.

"substantial social benefit" is an objective term, nothing more, and basically a fudge factor that's just a way to say "When I do it, it's OK because of X".

Progressives create an ambiguous threat that can't be measured or determined, and then say some intangible benefit is why we have to spend X, ban X, prevent X, and of course do it all through socialism.

Well, mercury emissions and CO2 emissions are indeed objective and tangible and the benefit of reducing them is societal.

Whats the benefit of propping up coal?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

What a stupid thread....Big Ears declared a war on coal. Cankles agreed

Get informed or stop posting BS

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Donald Trump promised to revived the coal industry but instead he has been a nightmare for coworkers. Some big companies are even going bankrupt:

"Perhaps the most persuasive evidence of President’s Trump’s failure to revive the coal industry lies in the number of coal company bankruptcies and mine closings. As of Oct. 30, 2019, 11 companies, including the largest privately held operation, had declared bankruptcy since Trump’s inauguration. And according to the USEIA, more than half of all mines operating in 2008 had closed by the end of 2018. The consumption of renewable sources of energy surpassed coal consumption in 2019 for the first time in over 130 years, according to USEIA."

https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article244088642.html

Coal miners are great people and I feel bad for them because they were conned into voting for Trump with the illusion that he would help them.
We heard a lot about Hillary being potentially really bad for coal workers but Donald Trump has been full of empty promises of greatness and resurgence.

So now Democrats pretend to care about COAL?

 

[meaner gene]

"substantial social benefit" is an objective term, nothing more, and basically a fudge factor that's just a way to say "When I do it, it's OK because of X".

Progressives create an ambiguous threat that can't be measured or determined, and then say some intangible benefit is why we have to spend X, ban X, prevent X, and of course do it all through socialism.

Substantial social benefit because "clean energy" by definition, doesn't pollute the land sea or air. There are no EPA regulated wastes to deal with, and it passes all clean air and clean water standards with zero emissions.

 

[meaner gene]

Whats the benefit of propping up coal?

The votes of the poorly educated communities dependent on coal.

 

[meaner gene]

What a stupid thread....Big Ears declared a war on coal. Cankles agreed

Get informed or stop posting BS

Ronald Reagan declared a war on drugs

What is the benefit of coal, black lung? Acid rain?

 

[22lcidw]

One didn't need to be Nostradamus to see the handwriting on the wall for the coal industry. Hillary told miners the truth they didn't want to hear. Trump offered false hope. For a long time it has been my thought that if just half the plans our candidates sold to the public were successful, our streets would be lined with gold.

If that was Hillary telling the miners the truth that they didn't want to hear then Hillary has no cooth.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Richard Trumka is a third-generation miner. He is also the head of the AFL-CIO and was President of the United Mine Workers for many years. I remember when he was a militant opposition leader closely involved in major strikes in West Virginia. He still strongly advocates for mine workers, and encourages research to make coal “clean.” I respect him even today. Many mine workers are alive and today retired on small pensions after years working tough jobs in the coal industry, thanks only to the UMW union.

Once as a young man I went down to West Virginia to cover a strike centered in old “Bible Belt” counties where gun battles with mine owner’s guards was once almost a way of life. Those days are now gone. Trumpka in this article shows that he knows that retraining for new clean energy jobs is central to the future of American labor. The AFL-CIO President remains active in Democratic Party politics, but has emphasized his political support is not to be taken for granted.

Republican Donald Trump campaigned to reinvigorate the coal industry. He did not deliver. His campaign was aimed not just at the diminishing numbers of mine workers. He was appealing to all old-timers aggrieved about or shafted by economic and social change. Trump did promise and did deliver on destroying safety and other regulations introduced by the Obama administration’s “Clean Power Plan,” but he accomplished nothing constructive. From the interesting attached article and video:

That evolution [retraining workers and making their unions more flexible] actually may have been a little easier if the EPA hadn’t gotten rid of the Clean Power Plan last week. The policy included a section about providing resources to transition coal workers toward new employment. “It at least gave them a fair shake to get trained for a new job and a new career," Trumka says. "And the process, the new one doesn't do that so much, and as a result workers will get left behind.”
In Montana, AFL-CIO President Talks About The Future Of Coal

 

[22lcidw]

What a stupid thread....Big Ears declared a war on coal. Cankles agreed

Get informed or stop posting BS

Ronald Reagan declared a war on drugs

What is the benefit of coal, black lung? Acid rain?

We are a rich nation that has blown a lot of it. Without all of the corruption we could move from one era to another with a lot less effort. Letting the coal industry die a slow death, if it is, keeps people employed until substitute jobs could be created.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

What a stupid thread....Big Ears declared a war on coal. Cankles agreed

Get informed or stop posting BS

Ronald Reagan declared a war on drugs

What is the benefit of coal, black lung? Acid rain?

I'm simply saying the idiot OP is confused.

I made thousands and thousands trading coal stocks....I got out of it around 2009, 2010...note the time frame and who was POTUS

 

[miketx]

The way progressives "ban" things like this is to make Regulations so onerous that it makes it impossible to perform the industrial action economically.

Dems were going to regulate Coal into the ground. Trump didn't do that.

But here's the thing. Trump didn't put any new regulations, and repealled the ones that were there, and the Coal industry has continued to decline, anyway.

The real problem is, the technology is dirty and obsolete.

So the media enema you take tells you.

 

[whitehall]

The guy just can't freaking win. Hillary vowed to shut down the coal industry and there wasn't a peep but now (mostly left wing?) factions complain that President Trump isn't doing enough for the industry.

 

[meaner gene]

Hillary told miners the truth they didn't want to hear. Trump offered false hope. For a long time it has been my thought that if just half the plans our candidates sold to the public were successful, our streets would be lined with gold.

If that was Hillary telling the miners the truth that they didn't want to hear then Hillary has no cooth.

Trump just told the country what it didn't want to hear. That the coronavirus pandemic would get worse, before it gets better.