Trump is putting coal workers out of work

[martybegan]

Then why are excessive regulations needed to "kill it"?

Regulations are to prevent coal from killing us.

And those mining it. I guess "screw them" though as long as we can have cheap coal.

Argumentum ad absurdum. Assuming being against over-regulation is being against regulation.

Being against "over-regulation" is worthless unless you want to be specific.

Like increasing removal standards beyond what is needed.

 

[BluesLegend]

But here's the thing. Trump didn't put any new regulations, and repealled the ones that were there, and the Coal industry has continued to decline, anyway.

The real problem is, the technology is dirty and obsolete.

Wrong, the OP's article cites, "more stringent air quality regulations, and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia” as the primary sources of the industry’s current woes."

There is a weaker demand because like it or not the world is moving away from coal because it's dirty and becoming obsolete.

Said nobody in China.

Nobody?

Beijing shuts last coal-fired power plant in bid to clear air

LMAO apparently you didn't read the 2nd line of your own link, "But capital still relies on polluting energy sources in other provinces for part of its energy needs "

It does. I didn't say we were done with dirty energy. I said there was less of a demand. That's exactly what my article states.

They just moved it away from the city. When the world stops using coal call us, until then stop trying to ban it. In fact what is this liberal fetish with banning things??

I also never argued to ban it. I'm arguing to move away from it.

Define moving away from it, making it so ridiculously expensive and difficult with government regulations that you effectively ban it would be my guess.

Should it be regulated? Absolutely. Does regulations make it more expensive? Absolutely. Even with regulations we had a total disregard for anything but the bottom line out of Don Blankenship. Just think how bad it would be without them.

A brand new coal mine was days from opening in West Virginia. They had spent millions of dollars and years complying with every government regulation. Just days before opening Obama shut the mine down with a stack of new government regulations designed specifically to kill that mine. The two DEM senators were furious and sent Obama a strongly worded letter to no avail. The fact is Democrats have weaponized government regulations to destroy industries they don't like.

Meanwhile Democrats are obliterating the environment and routinely breaking their own pollution laws and it's total crickets.

Internet stories. Gather round everyone.

It's a matter of public record you retard.

Heard that one before. Lots of times.

You are beyond ignorant.

 

[pknopp]

She offered them welfare. Train them for what exactly?

Nope. Training programs. Everything from computer programming to nursing.

What I’ve heard from many others is that would be ineffective because coal miners are too stupid.

How many hospitals and computer jobs do you suppose there are in the mountains of WV?

 

[BluesLegend]

But here's the thing. Trump didn't put any new regulations, and repealled the ones that were there, and the Coal industry has continued to decline, anyway.

The real problem is, the technology is dirty and obsolete.

Wrong, the OP's article cites, "more stringent air quality regulations, and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia” as the primary sources of the industry’s current woes."

There is a weaker demand because like it or not the world is moving away from coal because it's dirty and becoming obsolete.

Said nobody in China.

Nobody?

Beijing shuts last coal-fired power plant in bid to clear air

LMAO apparently you didn't read the 2nd line of your own link, "But capital still relies on polluting energy sources in other provinces for part of its energy needs "

It does. I didn't say we were done with dirty energy. I said there was less of a demand. That's exactly what my article states.

They just moved it away from the city. When the world stops using coal call us, until then stop trying to ban it. In fact what is this liberal fetish with banning things??

I also never argued to ban it. I'm arguing to move away from it.

Define moving away from it, making it so ridiculously expensive and difficult with government regulations that you effectively ban it would be my guess.

Should it be regulated? Absolutely. Does regulations make it more expensive? Absolutely. Even with regulations we had a total disregard for anything but the bottom line out of Don Blankenship. Just think how bad it would be without them.

A brand new coal mine was days from opening in West Virginia. They had spent millions of dollars and years complying with every government regulation. Just days before opening Obama shut the mine down with a stack of new government regulations designed specifically to kill that mine. The two DEM senators were furious and sent Obama a strongly worded letter to no avail. The fact is Democrats have weaponized government regulations to destroy industries they don't like.

Meanwhile Democrats are obliterating the environment and routinely breaking their own pollution laws and it's total crickets.

You may be right, you may be wrong because your words are little more than vague accusations.

There's no question here, this happened and was widely reported. Major Dem run cities who have wasted money on countless liberal spending sprees have ignored their crumbling sewer systems. These cities repeatedly spill hundreds of millions of gallons of untreated sewage into rivers and oceans. So fouling the water that beaches must be closed to prevent people from becoming sick.

Here we go again. I am NOT arguing for Democrats. I am arguing for people. What you state is one of the very reasons the Democrats lost Michigan.

I'm mocking the epic double standards and hypocrisy of the Democrats. Meanwhile the Dem BFF's in Canada are selling all the fossil fuels they can mine. Why? Wait for it because this is the true reason Dems hate fossil fuels...because in Canada and other countries government owns all the profits from fossil fuels. What chaps Dems in the USA is that corporations make billions of dollars on fossil fuels and Dems feel that money belongs to government. This is why a lead Dem House member, in a televised House committee meeting with oil company executives THREATENED to "socialize" their industry and government take over all their companies.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The way progressives "ban" things like this is to make Regulations so onerous that it makes it impossible to perform the industrial action economically.

Dems were going to regulate Coal into the ground. Trump didn't do that.

But here's the thing. Trump didn't put any new regulations, and repealled the ones that were there, and the Coal industry has continued to decline, anyway.

The real problem is, the technology is dirty and obsolete.

Correct.

The ‘industry’ is an anachronism from the 19th Century.

Workers need to come out of the mines and into the classroom to be trained for jobs relevant for the 21st Century.

Too late, imo. Better to just hand all a smart phone with unlimited upgrades and internet access. The info anyone needs to do just about anything is just a few finger jabs or voice commands away now. Real learning, of course, only comes about through doing.

But, like anything else, generally one must want the result to get anywhere. Whether seeking to work in a new field or to go into business for oneself, the first hurdle is inspiring (incentivizing) these people enough to learn what they need to, especially where the potential rewards only appear to get worse.

Incentives not to work are being offered (by left and right) like candy. The AFL-CIO has gone silent. The New Deal is dead. Corporate culture rules. Big Capital has won. The people have no choice left but to really get together and start fighting back.

 

[Dana7360]

Donald Trump promised to revived the coal industry but instead he has been a nightmare for coworkers. Some big companies are even going bankrupt:

"Perhaps the most persuasive evidence of President’s Trump’s failure to revive the coal industry lies in the number of coal company bankruptcies and mine closings. As of Oct. 30, 2019, 11 companies, including the largest privately held operation, had declared bankruptcy since Trump’s inauguration. And according to the USEIA, more than half of all mines operating in 2008 had closed by the end of 2018. The consumption of renewable sources of energy surpassed coal consumption in 2019 for the first time in over 130 years, according to USEIA."

https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article244088642.html

Coal miners are great people and I feel bad for them because they were conned into voting for Trump with the illusion that he would help them.
We heard a lot about Hillary being potentially really bad for coal workers but Donald Trump has been full of empty promises of greatness and resurgence.

Hillary was never bad for the coal workers.

She told them the truth. Their jobs are going away and won't come back.

She offered them retraining so they wouldn't be SOL.

She offered them welfare. Train them for what exactly?

They took the lazy way out. They chose trump who lied to them.

So actually Hillary was their better choice. They had a chance for retraining and a future.

They chose trump and now they are totally screwed.

They were warned. They chose to be lazy. They got what they voted for in trump.

Sorry, I have a very hard time with having sympathy for stupid, lazy people.

Neither was a good choice.

Being in school to get retrained is investing in our people and nation. It's benefiting the nation and the worker. Instead of an unemployed coal worker we get an employed person who is contributing to our society.

She proposed to spend 30 billion on retraining for the coal workers.

All trump offered them was lies which left them unemployed, no retraining for a hope to get a new profession and totally screwed.

If they had not been so lazy, got off their lazy butts and put some time and energy into themselves with education, they wouldn't be screwed now.

You might want to read what she actually proposed instead of listening to political spin from people who have a reputation for not being honest.

 

[Dana7360]

She offered them welfare. Train them for what exactly?

Nope. Training programs. Everything from computer programming to nursing.

What I’ve heard from many others is that would be ineffective because coal miners are too stupid.

They obviously are also too lazy.

 

[martybegan]

She offered them welfare. Train them for what exactly?

Nope. Training programs. Everything from computer programming to nursing.

What I’ve heard from many others is that would be ineffective because coal miners are too stupid.

They obviously are also too lazy.

Most local economies outside the blue belts require some local resource or manufacturing site to make them viable. Coal is viable, a lot of service trades are not, unless they service the people working on extracting the resource, or manufacturing a exported (outside the community, not the country) product.

Nursing is a particularly bad example of re-training. If 1/2 the people leave the locality due to the loss of the resource job, what's the point of having 200 more trained nurses?

 

[pknopp]

Donald Trump promised to revived the coal industry but instead he has been a nightmare for coworkers. Some big companies are even going bankrupt:

"Perhaps the most persuasive evidence of President’s Trump’s failure to revive the coal industry lies in the number of coal company bankruptcies and mine closings. As of Oct. 30, 2019, 11 companies, including the largest privately held operation, had declared bankruptcy since Trump’s inauguration. And according to the USEIA, more than half of all mines operating in 2008 had closed by the end of 2018. The consumption of renewable sources of energy surpassed coal consumption in 2019 for the first time in over 130 years, according to USEIA."

https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article244088642.html

Coal miners are great people and I feel bad for them because they were conned into voting for Trump with the illusion that he would help them.
We heard a lot about Hillary being potentially really bad for coal workers but Donald Trump has been full of empty promises of greatness and resurgence.

Hillary was never bad for the coal workers.

She told them the truth. Their jobs are going away and won't come back.

She offered them retraining so they wouldn't be SOL.

She offered them welfare. Train them for what exactly?

They took the lazy way out. They chose trump who lied to them.

So actually Hillary was their better choice. They had a chance for retraining and a future.

They chose trump and now they are totally screwed.

They were warned. They chose to be lazy. They got what they voted for in trump.

Sorry, I have a very hard time with having sympathy for stupid, lazy people.

Neither was a good choice.

Being in school to get retrained is investing in our people and nation. It's benefiting the nation and the worker. Instead of an unemployed coal worker we get an employed person who is contributing to our society.

She proposed to spend 30 billion on retraining for the coal workers.

All trump offered them was lies which left them unemployed, no retraining for a hope to get a new profession and totally screwed.

If they had not been so lazy, got off their lazy butts and put some time and energy into themselves with education, they wouldn't be screwed now.

You might want to read what she actually proposed instead of listening to political spin from people who have a reputation for not being honest.

One more time.......retraining for what? Have you ever been in coal country?

What she was offering was empty platitudes.

 

[Dana7360]

Donald Trump promised to revived the coal industry but instead he has been a nightmare for coworkers. Some big companies are even going bankrupt:

"Perhaps the most persuasive evidence of President’s Trump’s failure to revive the coal industry lies in the number of coal company bankruptcies and mine closings. As of Oct. 30, 2019, 11 companies, including the largest privately held operation, had declared bankruptcy since Trump’s inauguration. And according to the USEIA, more than half of all mines operating in 2008 had closed by the end of 2018. The consumption of renewable sources of energy surpassed coal consumption in 2019 for the first time in over 130 years, according to USEIA."

https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article244088642.html

Coal miners are great people and I feel bad for them because they were conned into voting for Trump with the illusion that he would help them.
We heard a lot about Hillary being potentially really bad for coal workers but Donald Trump has been full of empty promises of greatness and resurgence.

They had a choice, Russian BS aside. So did the burbs in the Rust Belt, and they chose DJT. And now they are crying Covid-19 mismanagement from the WH and everything else from coal to no health benefits.

So you believe they would have done better under Hillary?

Hillary lost coal country because she stated she would put coal miners out of work. Under Trump we are simply working towards what she said she would do.

No she didn't say she would put coal miners out of work.

You just repeated a lie.

She told them that their jobs are going away and won't come back. Then she offered them reeducation so they wouldn't be totally screwed.

She told them the ugly truth. Coal is a dying industry. Much more cleaner and much more efficient sources of energy are being used and developed.

They chose to go with the liar who pandered to them with lies to get them to vote against their best interest. They chose the lazy way and they got totally screwed.

If people are too lazy to take responsibility for their own lives then I really can't have any sympathy for them.

They made the bad choice. Now they don't want to take responsibility for that bad choice.

They were warned. They ignored the truth and warnings. They made the lazy choice. They got what they voted for. I have no sympathy for them.

"Reeducation" for what?

Read her energy and coal proposal.

Reeducation in new energy industries, in computers, in medical field or any other field they want to work in.

She proposed 30 billion for them to be retrained.

They chose to not do the work to secure their own future. Which was a very bad choice. So now they are totally screwed. No job, no retraining and no hope for a future.

They made the very bad choice to take the lazy way. They chose trump the liar who now has abandoned the workers and they've been left high and dry on their own.

They were warned. They ignored the warnings. They got what they voted for. Now they're whining about it.

They should stop whining, go get new training and get their lives together.

I highly doubt they will do that. They have already shown they are too lazy to do the work for their own future.

The result will be more generational poverty in West Virginia.

They had a chance at a better life, they were too lazy to take it.

 

[pknopp]

Donald Trump promised to revived the coal industry but instead he has been a nightmare for coworkers. Some big companies are even going bankrupt:

"Perhaps the most persuasive evidence of President’s Trump’s failure to revive the coal industry lies in the number of coal company bankruptcies and mine closings. As of Oct. 30, 2019, 11 companies, including the largest privately held operation, had declared bankruptcy since Trump’s inauguration. And according to the USEIA, more than half of all mines operating in 2008 had closed by the end of 2018. The consumption of renewable sources of energy surpassed coal consumption in 2019 for the first time in over 130 years, according to USEIA."

https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article244088642.html

Coal miners are great people and I feel bad for them because they were conned into voting for Trump with the illusion that he would help them.
We heard a lot about Hillary being potentially really bad for coal workers but Donald Trump has been full of empty promises of greatness and resurgence.

They had a choice, Russian BS aside. So did the burbs in the Rust Belt, and they chose DJT. And now they are crying Covid-19 mismanagement from the WH and everything else from coal to no health benefits.

So you believe they would have done better under Hillary?

Hillary lost coal country because she stated she would put coal miners out of work. Under Trump we are simply working towards what she said she would do.

No she didn't say she would put coal miners out of work.

You just repeated a lie.

She told them that their jobs are going away and won't come back. Then she offered them reeducation so they wouldn't be totally screwed.

She told them the ugly truth. Coal is a dying industry. Much more cleaner and much more efficient sources of energy are being used and developed.

They chose to go with the liar who pandered to them with lies to get them to vote against their best interest. They chose the lazy way and they got totally screwed.

If people are too lazy to take responsibility for their own lives then I really can't have any sympathy for them.

They made the bad choice. Now they don't want to take responsibility for that bad choice.

They were warned. They ignored the truth and warnings. They made the lazy choice. They got what they voted for. I have no sympathy for them.

"Reeducation" for what?

Read her energy and coal proposal.

Reeducation in new energy industries, in computers, in medical field or any other field they want to work in.

She proposed 30 billion for them to be retrained.

They chose to not do the work to secure their own future. Which was a very bad choice. So now they are totally screwed. No job, no retraining and no hope for a future.

They made the very bad choice to take the lazy way. They chose trump the liar who now has abandoned the workers and they've been left high and dry on their own.

They were warned. They ignored the warnings. They got what they voted for. Now they're whining about it.

They should stop whining, go get new training and get their lives together.

I highly doubt they will do that. They have already shown they are too lazy to do the work for their own future.

The result will be more generational poverty in West Virginia.

They had a chance at a better life, they were too lazy to take it.

There are no alternative energy jobs (or at least not that many), computer or nursing jobs to be had. What good is it to offer people training in non existent jobs and how do they survive until these jobs happen to appear?

Empty rhetoric.

But yeah, go ahead and note how you have no sympathy for them. How Democrat of you.

 

[martybegan]

Donald Trump promised to revived the coal industry but instead he has been a nightmare for coworkers. Some big companies are even going bankrupt:

"Perhaps the most persuasive evidence of President’s Trump’s failure to revive the coal industry lies in the number of coal company bankruptcies and mine closings. As of Oct. 30, 2019, 11 companies, including the largest privately held operation, had declared bankruptcy since Trump’s inauguration. And according to the USEIA, more than half of all mines operating in 2008 had closed by the end of 2018. The consumption of renewable sources of energy surpassed coal consumption in 2019 for the first time in over 130 years, according to USEIA."

https://www.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article244088642.html

Coal miners are great people and I feel bad for them because they were conned into voting for Trump with the illusion that he would help them.
We heard a lot about Hillary being potentially really bad for coal workers but Donald Trump has been full of empty promises of greatness and resurgence.

They had a choice, Russian BS aside. So did the burbs in the Rust Belt, and they chose DJT. And now they are crying Covid-19 mismanagement from the WH and everything else from coal to no health benefits.

So you believe they would have done better under Hillary?

Hillary lost coal country because she stated she would put coal miners out of work. Under Trump we are simply working towards what she said she would do.

No she didn't say she would put coal miners out of work.

You just repeated a lie.

She told them that their jobs are going away and won't come back. Then she offered them reeducation so they wouldn't be totally screwed.

She told them the ugly truth. Coal is a dying industry. Much more cleaner and much more efficient sources of energy are being used and developed.

They chose to go with the liar who pandered to them with lies to get them to vote against their best interest. They chose the lazy way and they got totally screwed.

If people are too lazy to take responsibility for their own lives then I really can't have any sympathy for them.

They made the bad choice. Now they don't want to take responsibility for that bad choice.

They were warned. They ignored the truth and warnings. They made the lazy choice. They got what they voted for. I have no sympathy for them.

"Reeducation" for what?

Read her energy and coal proposal.

Reeducation in new energy industries, in computers, in medical field or any other field they want to work in.

She proposed 30 billion for them to be retrained.

They chose to not do the work to secure their own future. Which was a very bad choice. So now they are totally screwed. No job, no retraining and no hope for a future.

They made the very bad choice to take the lazy way. They chose trump the liar who now has abandoned the workers and they've been left high and dry on their own.

They were warned. They ignored the warnings. They got what they voted for. Now they're whining about it.

They should stop whining, go get new training and get their lives together.

I highly doubt they will do that. They have already shown they are too lazy to do the work for their own future.

The result will be more generational poverty in West Virginia.

They had a chance at a better life, they were too lazy to take it.

Damn peasants.

 

[colfax_m]

But here's the thing. Trump didn't put any new regulations, and repealled the ones that were there, and the Coal industry has continued to decline, anyway.

The real problem is, the technology is dirty and obsolete.

Wrong, the OP's article cites, "more stringent air quality regulations, and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia” as the primary sources of the industry’s current woes."

There is a weaker demand because like it or not the world is moving away from coal because it's dirty and becoming obsolete.

Said nobody in China.

Nobody?

Beijing shuts last coal-fired power plant in bid to clear air

LMAO apparently you didn't read the 2nd line of your own link, "But capital still relies on polluting energy sources in other provinces for part of its energy needs "

It does. I didn't say we were done with dirty energy. I said there was less of a demand. That's exactly what my article states.

They just moved it away from the city. When the world stops using coal call us, until then stop trying to ban it. In fact what is this liberal fetish with banning things??

I also never argued to ban it. I'm arguing to move away from it.

Define moving away from it, making it so ridiculously expensive and difficult with government regulations that you effectively ban it would be my guess.

Should it be regulated? Absolutely. Does regulations make it more expensive? Absolutely. Even with regulations we had a total disregard for anything but the bottom line out of Don Blankenship. Just think how bad it would be without them.

A brand new coal mine was days from opening in West Virginia. They had spent millions of dollars and years complying with every government regulation. Just days before opening Obama shut the mine down with a stack of new government regulations designed specifically to kill that mine. The two DEM senators were furious and sent Obama a strongly worded letter to no avail. The fact is Democrats have weaponized government regulations to destroy industries they don't like.

Meanwhile Democrats are obliterating the environment and routinely breaking their own pollution laws and it's total crickets.

Internet stories. Gather round everyone.

It's a matter of public record you retard.

Heard that one before. Lots of times.

You are beyond ignorant.

Of what? You’re totally true internet stories?

 

[colfax_m]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

 

[martybegan]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

 

[colfax_m]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

 

[meaner gene]

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

Renewable energy isn't about replacing coal, it's about replacing expensive polluting fossil fuels. Gas and oil are still booming because unlike the coal dinosaur.

 

[martybegan]

Damn peasants.

Conservatism is not propping up a dying industry for political gain.

It's not about propping up, it's about progressives trying to kill it before it's natural time because of the AGW boogeyman.

Most of these people would accept economics dragging them under, but when progs like you want to do it intentionally that's when they have the issue.

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

Define "prop up".

 

[meaner gene]

There were numerous attempts by the Trump administration to prop up the coal industry. I believe all of them failed because they lacked the authority to do so but haven’t heard much in a while.

The natural time for the coal industry is when a price competitive alternative exists with fewer emissions. Which is no.

Trump cut as many regulations on the coal industry as he could. He let them pollute more and relaxed safety standards. But there is only so much deregulation can do for a dying industry.

 

[meaner gene]

Define "prop up".

In 2019, electric utilities across the country retired or converted roughly 15,100 megawatts, or MW, of coal-fired electricity generation, according to Reuters


The precipitous decline in coal-powered electricity is largely the result of far cheaper alternative sources of energy, including wind, solar and natural gas. In the first half of 2019, coal-generated power dropped 13 percent, and electricity from solar alone grew by 10 percent. Over the past decade, the cost for solar and wind power fell by nearly 90 percent and 70 percent, respectively.

“Telling the truth may be a foreign concept to President Trump, but the stark realities facing the coal industry and the jobs evaporating along with it are surely not lost on those struggling communities in coal country,” said EWG President Ken Cook. “It is hard to find another group of Americans the president has lied to more often than coal miners and their families.”

Report: Coal-Power Plant Closures Near Record High Under Trump

If the pace of U.S. coal-fired power plant closures in 2019 continues throughout 2020, more plants will have shut down during President Trump's first term than during President Obama's second term, according to data compiled by the federal government and Reuters.

www.ewg.org

Trump rolled back nearly all the Obama era regulations on coal. And it didn't help.