Trump pulling out of Paris Climate Accord

[Avatar4321]

No shit. That's why its unconstitutional.
I will state it ONE MORE TIME
We have a process called the circular 175 procedure.
It determines whether Congress is necessary.
The agreement effects the Nation at whole, It will cause states right loss, it must involve congress in the first place because of the $, it also doesn't seem to have a termination rate.

"Treaty power is a co-ordinated effort between the Executive branch and the Senate. The President may form and negotiate, but the treaty must be advised and consented to by a two-thirds vote in the Senate. Only after the Senate approves the treaty can the President ratify it."

Ratification - Wikipedia

Now your presenting Constitutional law... your going to confuse them with facts...

dude, you winnered a post of mine yesterday when I called it a treaty. You confused?

The Paris accord is a TREATY... an unratified one.... Meaning its a useless piece of paper with no agreement from the US

Really?
Then you don't like the dictionary's definition>

"trea·ty
[ˈtrēdē]

NOUN
treaties (plural noun)

1. a formally concluded and ratified agreement between countries."

And over 100 nations have ratified it....

 

[The Original Tree]

 

[Avatar4321]

"Treaty power is a co-ordinated effort between the Executive branch and the Senate. The President may form and negotiate, but the treaty must be advised and consented to by a two-thirds vote in the Senate. Only after the Senate approves the treaty can the President ratify it."

Ratification - Wikipedia

Now your presenting Constitutional law... your going to confuse them with facts...

dude, you winnered a post of mine yesterday when I called it a treaty. You confused?

The Paris accord is a TREATY... an unratified one.... Meaning its a useless piece of paper with no agreement from the US

Really?
Then you don't like the dictionary's definition>

"trea·ty
[ˈtrēdē]

NOUN
treaties (plural noun)

1. a formally concluded and ratified agreement between countries."

If you read the agreement, it is most certainly a treaty and gives powers of congress to a global regime. The fact that congress never ratified it saved our asses... An "Accord" can not give up sovereign rights, only a treaty can do this....

And accord is a treaty. The definition of an accord is a treaty. Accords are usually treaties that involve more than 2 nations on a certain issue

 

[Avatar4321]

Ironically this raises a serious question.

The left is now trying to claim that this isn't a treaty its a voluntary agreement that we are somehow bound to despite never being ratified.

If its a voluntary agreement why are the progressives melting down over us not staying in it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Treaty on Treaties and the Paris Accord

 

[June 7 2017]

Ironically this raises a serious question.

The left is now trying to claim that this isn't a treaty its a voluntary agreement that we are somehow bound to despite never being ratified.

If its a voluntary agreement why are the progressives melting down over us not staying in it?

Have you ever met a Progressive that wasn't melting down over something at any given moment?

 

[charwin95]

Yes you twisted every thing and it's pure lie.

Show me where they say China can run rampart, encourage them to step up their pollution ahead of 2030. Finance them? Hold our own industry back? REALLY? Prove it.

Since when we hold our industry back? Like what? Prove it.

That is the most ridiculous I ever heard.

Simple, read the 20 some page accord and the agreement petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama provided to the United Nations.

Most likely you have but just cannot accept defeat.

It doesn't work that way Markle. Please answer those ^ questions that I asked and do not deflect.
And Do not give me a philosophical rebuttal.

 

[charwin95]

The name of the former president is Obama NOT DUMBAMA and the current president is Trump.
Where did I lie? I NEVER in my post just pure facts and reality. Get your facts right.
And you are a good example of a deplorable American.
From the beginning of this thread you posted and supported nothing but baseless or philosophical.

Oh yes, you lie, you lie all the time. You use the word "racism" when nothing even was discussed about race. It's a typical liberal reaction to a losing argument for a liberal. When you have no real defense in an argument, call somebody a racist.

You didn't do that with just me, but several people here. You've been trained like a monkey by your leaders.

You are a racist Ray. But that's not the issue in this thread. The issue is how Trump pulled us out of an agreement the entire planet agreed to for no real reason except to keep his voting base on his side.

The issue is how Trump pulled us out of an agreement the entire planet agreed to

The issue is because this treaty wasn't submitted to or voted on by the US Senate and therefore was not ratified by the US Senate, we were never in the agreement.

You'd be surprised how many people are claiming it wasn't a treaty and yet we are somehow bound to its voluntary nature or nonsense like that.

So what the hell is the difference treaty or not? it's about saving this planet.

 

[charwin95]

This proves you and your buddy Todd don't know what in the world what this topic is all about.
Yes they are not choking with CO2 but the emissions are releasing to the atmosphere is dangerous to the earth. And Coal industry is one of the culprits.
China just shut down 103 of their coal plants is a good progress. At the same time they are going after their factories of air pollutants and smogs.

That's why you and the left is confused the Paris accord has nothing to do with pollution..it has to do with a transfer of wealth..

Transfer of wealth like what?

AGAIN let me repeat it again. Are you saying all the Americans 7 out of 10, Exxon, ConocoPhillips, BP, CEOs, Ivanka, Tillerson are all confused and all belong to the left? You are dumber than I thought.

Now answer those 2 questions. Before I waste anymore of my time with your stupidity.

Are you saying all the Americans 7 out of 10, Exxon, ConocoPhillips, BP, CEOs, Ivanka, Tillerson are all confused and all belong to the left?

Confused or going along with the idiocy for financial gain.

I've always found it odd that they cite those companies like they are pure evil but don't think twice when those companies sign on to what they want to do with the country. If I believed someone was evil and they started supporting what I did I'd be having some serious moral reflection time

Really? Explain.

 

[charwin95]

In reality nobody is telling us anything Ray. We are the leader of this world not a dumb follower.
Taking about debt------- Since when you care about debt? Trump is wasting millions just by golfing, security and travel expenses of his family.
How about those small business that lost income every time he goes to Maralago?

Again are you saying that 7 out of 10 of Americans,CEOs, Conoco, Exxon etc etc etc blasting dumb Trump are all belong to the left are dense?
You are very wrong Ray.

Did you just get to this country or what?

Policies and politics changes with mood and vote of the people. We don't want some big-eared clown making policy that we can't get out of in the future. DumBama is gone, and Trump is trying to De-Bama the country.

When we voted the last several elections, we voted for change; not just change of the players, but change in the politics as well. We gave Republicans leadership of the Congress. We gave Republicans leadership of the Senate. We recently gave Republicans the White House. Why? Because we don't want Democrat policies anymore, and Democrat policies should not continue we we vote in Republican leadership.

Signing on to this Paris Accord gives Democrats the power over our environment no matter who is in leadership in the future. Trump rightfully stopped that. If the country wants change (as we do now) then we should not be bound by some stupid agreement that stops such change.

Yes, we are the leader of the world, and our leader is saying we act independently on this issue.

AGAIN------ Are you saying 7 out of 10 Americans, CEOs, Exxon, ConocoPhillips, BP, Ivanka, Tillerson etc etc etc. that support this accord------- Are all democrats?
Withdrawing from this accord didn't make us the leader but a laughing and embarrassing around the world.
So if we act independently why not part of group of a great movement?

So far you have not answer any of my questions Ray. Why is that?

Trump withdrew from the accord only because of coal industry but pure dumb and do not accept that the climate change is a hoax. So what are you trying to say Ray? Crap.

You are 100% the Republicans have house, congress and the White House------ So how are they doing? Let say replace and repeal Obamacare with the same garbage, total chaos, non stop self inflicting wounds, continue sucking Putin dick, Russian scandal, republicans investigating republicans, an embarrassment around the world, discombobulated toxic administration. What an accomplishment.

Did anyone came up in support of Trump from withdrawing from the accord? except maybe 8 GOPs.

Keep your accord to yourselves leave the rest of us out of it

Then you are the minority here in America and the rest of the world.
Nicaragua didn't joined the accord because it's not strong or not good enough.
Syria because of on going civil war.
US just because of Trump trying to revive a dying coal industry. That makes the laughing stock and putting backwards. LMAO.

1. First, why on earth would other people laughing influence us? We aren't children afraid to lol bad. We are men who want to do right for ourselves and our nation. Whether people laugh is irrelevant to what we do. It will not stop us from doing what's right. Why does it stop you?

2. Second, leaders dont follow what the group. If leaders did what everyone else did they wouldn't be leaders. They would just be sheep.

3. Third, even the left was saying this deal was bad. Look up the politico summary from 2015.

4. Fourth, if everyone actually did support this accord, Obama would have submitted it to the senate for ratification. He didn't because its a piece of garbage that costs jobs and money we can't afford to lose and the senate wasn't going to approve it.

5. Finally if you want to do something to this nonexistent problem in your own life. Go ahead. heck it you want to hurt jobs in your state or city feel free to advocate more state and city regulations. Just stop trying yo force this nonsense on the rest of us. You have no right to force your religious viewpoints on the entire nation or to cause people to lose jobs because you are terrified of something that wont ever happen.

1. Physical they are already laughing at us from the headlines all over the world. One headline say Fuck you Trump in front page. Second Trump is more of a petulant little boy. Don't forget 195 countries signed up for this. His speech was full of lies that every single one of his followers don't have any clue what in the world he was talking about.
It will not stop us from doing what is right. Correct but so why pull out from this accord?
Why does it stop you? I didn't Trump did. So why did Trump spew all those lies? Like billions and billions we wasted, we cannot compete, they cannot laugh at us anymore, lost lots of jobs China is not doing anything till 2030 ------ Explain that.
2. Obama set the example of a leader. He was the leader. Explain.
3. What left? Look at the numbers of Americans supported this democrats, republicans and independents.
Did anyone or any groups supported Trump from pulling out? Tell me.
4. You know better than that.
If Obama submitted this to GOPs. What do you think will happen? They rejected everything from day one till his last day in Oval Office.
5. WHAT jobs did this accord hurt or lost? Like what? Give me an example because I've been asking this question many many times. EXPLAIN.

I'm not forcing anyone but do not try to force me for something I strongly believe in like most Americans and the rest of the world. The earth climate is changing even Trump believed that.
The only and only reason he did that was to save the dying coal industry.

 

[charwin95]

What has Trump done that was good?

You're kidding right?

* With the DOW Jones being up about 15% to new all-time highs since Trump taking office over a rebirth in business confidence, with the fastest 2000 point run ever and the stock market gaining two trillion since Trump got in, what is your complaint there? Would you rather it be lower or do you think Hillary would have taken it even higher?

* Trump has reduced the national debt so far by 100 billion. Just what is wrong with that?

* Trump added 300,000 jobs in his first month. Was that wrong?

* Housing sales are hot! Time on market has been cut in half since 2011. Is that bad?

* Illegal immigration is down by nearly 70%. And the wall isn't even built yet. Where do you disagree this isn't good?

* Then there is healthcare reform in progress,
a new, simpler tax code on the horizon,
dismantling numerous oppressive regulations stifling business,
stepping up national security,
rethinking trade deals to more favor the USA,
addressing the world's biggest threats like ISIS, Syria and North Korea
and taking steps to better unify nations toward improving NATO funding and concerns over Iran, etc.,
and much, much more. Where is any of this bad?

Your cred sucks when all you do is cheer for Trump even when it's shown he's wrong.

My "cred" has nothing to do with the facts. If someone is doing so much good in so short a time, what should I do, complain? As to being shown he is wrong, WHERE? Whose OPINION??? It takes more than just posting a link to some hack website that says he is wrong! You can find a website to tell you anything.

You are kidding.
Jobs, stocks, economy, unemployment are showing very positive at least since middle of last year that's a fact.
Trump added 300,000 job in January that's a lie. Prove it. Trump take credit everything and everywhere even he has nothing to do with it. And people like you believe 100%.
Replace & repeal Obamacare is a joke replaced with the same garbage.
One page Tax reforms is not even considered as Tax reforms by some of the GOPs----- its DOA.
Trade deals like what?
So what's new in dealing with North Korea, ISIS and Syria? I don't see anything new.
Because of Trump behavior towards NATO members and European allies. He face very bad embarrassing criticism here and abroad. So what is there to bragged about?
Dear-------- do you really believed everything coming from a pathological liar?

Are you aware that the $110 billions arms sales deal with the Saudi that he bragged is purely baloney?

Seriously can't understand why you guys don't realize why the economy took off when people began planning for a time when Obama wasn't in power.

Fact is Americans are getting jobs because Obama lost his

Nonsense.

 

[charwin95]

Obama did not take the agreement to congress because it was not a treaty. There were not obligations other than reporting progress and no budget impact. What Obama signed was an executive agreement, one of over 13,000 US presidents have signed without congress approval.

The president alone cannot commit our country to any spending or debt not approved by Congress. Just cannot happen, he does not have that authority. He can sign thousands of things so long as they don't involve our money, economy or defense.

That is not true.
This shows you don't know anything my dear. As of May 2017 we already contributed exactly $1 billion installment basis. I even mentioned it in this thread over and over.
Didn't Trump even mentioned in his speech?------------ immediately will stop funding.

 

[charwin95]

Then you are doing exactly what I'm telling you. China is doing everything they can to improve their land, air, sea and the emissions output long before 2030. They signed with the accord to show the world that they are part of a good movement for the sake of one planet.
For you and Trump or anybody to say China is not doing anything till 2030 is pure idiotic.

And STOP cutting my post to fit your nonsense agenda.

Specifically what is China required to do prior to 2030. For that matter, what are they REQUIRED to do after 2030?

If they're doing something now, what purpose is the accord?

You've got a lot to catch up.
Again and again ------- China's air, land and rivers are probably the most polluted country in this world. Smog alone is killing them.
They are not required to do anything before 2030 it's voluntary.
The 2030 was given to them to start doing something because that has something to do with their population and their current technology.
You cannot just cut off their coal industry leaving millions in the dark.
However they are not waiting for 2030 to do something. They scrap 103 coal plants, allocated $360 billions for reusable energy to be completed by 2020. There are lots of this going on in China trying to improve their land, air, rivers and sea.
Even the dirtiest country-------- China joined the accord as part of a global movement to save the planet.
Their goal after 2030 was to eliminate or phase out coal industry just like here in US.


This is the last time I will explain this.

 

[charwin95]

Waste money on stupid ideas. Like what?
This has been going before the mayor was elected so why would they not vote for him by saving the planet and creating more jobs.

Waste money on stupid ideas. Like what?

Like whatever "green energy" scheme that will cost millions and reduce CO2 emissions by dozens of pounds.

This has been going before the mayor was elected so why would they not vote for him by saving the planet

The mayor of Pittsburgh is going to save the planet?

Wrong answer Todd. Mayors only support clean air, reusable energy and using natural gas instead of coal. They do not have the power to reduce emissions because they mayors do not run fossil fuel industries like Exxon, ConocoPhillips or BP.
But mayors and governors came out in support of the Paris accord agreement. Telling Trump fuck you.
So let me ask you again. Waste money on stupid ideas------- Like what?
Try again.

Mayors only support clean air, reusable energy and using natural gas instead of coal.

That's just so awesome!
So what can this idiot actually do to clean the air?
Be specific.

But mayors and governors came out in support of the Paris accord agreement.

Their support and $5 can get you a yummy drink at Starbucks.

Wrong again Too. Keep trying.

So what can this idiot actually do to clean the air?
Be specific.

Go back and read the thread again Tod because you are now wasting my time trying to give me your nonsense rebuttal. Go.

 

[charwin95]

This proves you and your buddy Todd don't know what in the world what this topic is all about.
Yes they are not choking with CO2 but the emissions are releasing to the atmosphere is dangerous to the earth. And Coal industry is one of the culprits.
China just shut down 103 of their coal plants is a good progress. At the same time they are going after their factories of air pollutants and smogs.

Yes they are not choking with CO2 but the emissions are releasing to the atmosphere is dangerous to the earth. And Coal industry is one of the culprits.

1. Yes, they should spend their money cleaning up their dangerous emissions and stop wasting it on CO2 reduction.
Of course, based on their non-commitments under the Paris accords, they already decided not to waste their money on CO2 reduction, eh?

China just shut down 103 of their coal plants is a good progress

2. They shut down 103 plants that were generating power? Are you sure?

1. Wrong answer try again.
2. Yes read the link I posted because I was in China when I heard that news.

Where can I find the list of plants that are no longer burning coal?

Wrong again. Keep trying.

No list? I'm shocked! LOL!

Go back and read the thread because I already posted the link.

 

[charwin95]

AGAIN------ Are you saying 7 out of 10 Americans, CEOs, Exxon, ConocoPhillips, BP, Ivanka, Tillerson etc etc etc. that support this accord------- Are all democrats?
Withdrawing from this accord didn't make us the leader but a laughing and embarrassing around the world.
So if we act independently why not part of group of a great movement?

So far you have not answer any of my questions Ray. Why is that?

Trump withdrew from the accord only because of coal industry but pure dumb and do not accept that the climate change is a hoax. So what are you trying to say Ray? Crap.

You are 100% the Republicans have house, congress and the White House------ So how are they doing? Let say replace and repeal Obamacare with the same garbage, total chaos, non stop self inflicting wounds, continue sucking Putin dick, Russian scandal, republicans investigating republicans, an embarrassment around the world, discombobulated toxic administration. What an accomplishment.

Did anyone came up in support of Trump from withdrawing from the accord? except maybe 8 GOPs.

1.First off, Commie Care is a disaster. Yesterday, Anthem Blue Shield announced they are pulling out of our state.

2. Secondly, you don't know how many Americans want to keep the Paris Accord. There was one poll on it and it wasn't a very large poll either. There was no explanation how the poll was conducted, and outside of political junkies like ourselves, most people don't know what the Paris Accord is. But people don't want to look stupid when asked a question, so they give any kind of answer.

3. Thirdly, you've been brainwashed by your puppet masters that all CEOs are conservative Republicans. There are a lot of liberals in the business world like Gates, Buffett, the late Steve Jobs.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

1. There are no such thing as Commie Care. Try again.
2. You are right a lot of people don't have a clue about the Paris accord and the climate change. You are a proof of that. Trumpeters doesn't give a shit what Trump is talking about--------- they believe every lies whatever comes out from his mouth. That includes climate change. Sadly.
You are Wrong. Support of saving this planet here in US and globally is very high. Even Iranians will tell you that. There are several polls run who opposed and supported this accord. Update yourself Ray.

3. Is that include the fossil fuel industries CEOs that are culprits of releasing emissions supports the Paris Accord? Including Tillerson. Sad.
We don't have a puppet master Ray ------ Trump is a good example of a puppet. Sadly.

You don't have a faintest clue what you are talking about Ray.

Support of saving this planet here in US and globally is very high

It's so high among Greens that they'll support every expensive, unreliable source of energy, but won't support reliable nuclear energy.

Wrong answer. Try again and harder.

You support nuclear?
Or is that worse than CO2?

Did I say that?

 

[charwin95]

Then you are doing exactly what I'm telling you. China is doing everything they can to improve their land, air, sea and the emissions output long before 2030. They signed with the accord to show the world that they are part of a good movement for the sake of one planet.
For you and Trump or anybody to say China is not doing anything till 2030 is pure idiotic.

And STOP cutting my post to fit your nonsense agenda.

Specifically what is China required to do prior to 2030. For that matter, what are they REQUIRED to do after 2030?

If they're doing something now, what purpose is the accord?

NOTHING... this was all voluntary... so they don't have to do squat.. now or then...

Really? How do you know that?

Explain.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The name of the former president is Obama NOT DUMBAMA and the current president is Trump.
Where did I lie? I NEVER in my post just pure facts and reality. Get your facts right.
And you are a good example of a deplorable American.
From the beginning of this thread you posted and supported nothing but baseless or philosophical.

Oh yes, you lie, you lie all the time. You use the word "racism" when nothing even was discussed about race. It's a typical liberal reaction to a losing argument for a liberal. When you have no real defense in an argument, call somebody a racist.

You didn't do that with just me, but several people here. You've been trained like a monkey by your leaders.

You are a racist Ray. But that's not the issue in this thread. The issue is how Trump pulled us out of an agreement the entire planet agreed to for no real reason except to keep his voting base on his side.

The issue is how Trump pulled us out of an agreement the entire planet agreed to

The issue is because this treaty wasn't submitted to or voted on by the US Senate and therefore was not ratified by the US Senate, we were never in the agreement.

You'd be surprised how many people are claiming it wasn't a treaty and yet we are somehow bound to its voluntary nature or nonsense like that.

So what the hell is the difference treaty or not? it's about saving this planet.

It's not about saving shit..you can't possibly think we are big enough to keep the planet at the same temperature do you ?

.

 

[charwin95]

So what's new in dealing with North Korea, ISIS and Syria? I don't see anything new.

You're kidding right?

* YOU DON'T SEE that in short order, we've gone from an invisible red line of total impotence in the sand that Obama's bluff was called on long ago leading to the slaughter of many thousands of lives to a missile attack that took out half of Assad's airforce, stopped the use of chemical weapons and made the world take serious Trump's resolve?

* YOU DON'T SEE that ISIS went from a free-running terror agency which had long since stopped taking America seriously to one day having the world's largest bomb dropped on its tunnel network killing many agents and slowing or stopping its tunnel system in and out of Afghanistan?

* And YOU DON'T SEE North Korea going from totally unchecked, to having China its closest ally now down its throat on one side working with us cutting off vital markets to our having a large military presence off shore ready to respond, meetings with Japan, a test of our strategist missile defense, to preparations to defending South Korea?

If you don't see any of that, you are indeed more than blind, you are willingly obtuse.

We've always been visible in Syria and Iraq------ only reason you are aware now because of Trump. OMG OMG OMG we just started taking over Mosul Iraq and bombing Syria.

Bombing Syria Assad only helps ISIS. BFD.

North Korea just tested total of 4 missiles in last 3 weeks. While 3 air craft carriers are in the region. We are now withdrawing 2 of the 3 air craft carriers in Korean Peninsula. Now that boy think we are bluffing. BFD.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Then you are doing exactly what I'm telling you. China is doing everything they can to improve their land, air, sea and the emissions output long before 2030. They signed with the accord to show the world that they are part of a good movement for the sake of one planet.
For you and Trump or anybody to say China is not doing anything till 2030 is pure idiotic.

And STOP cutting my post to fit your nonsense agenda.

Specifically what is China required to do prior to 2030. For that matter, what are they REQUIRED to do after 2030?

If they're doing something now, what purpose is the accord?

You've got a lot to catch up.
Again and again ------- China's air, land and rivers are probably the most polluted country in this world. Smog alone is killing them.
They are not required to do anything before 2030 it's voluntary.
The 2030 was given to them to start doing something because that has something to do with their population and their current technology.
You cannot just cut off their coal industry leaving millions in the dark.
However they are not waiting for 2030 to do something. They scrap 103 coal plants, allocated $360 billions for reusable energy to be completed by 2020. There are lots of this going on in China trying to improve their land, air, rivers and sea.
Even the dirtiest country-------- China joined the accord as part of a global movement to save the planet.
Their goal after 2030 was to eliminate or phase out coal industry just like here in US.


This is the last time I will explain this.

Who gives a damn?



.