Trump pulling out of Paris Climate Accord

[Dale Smith]

Dale, I love your posts, or most of them. Some things go over my head. I am a simple business owner. I do not have an engineering degree. Dumb it down like an executive briefing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Bond......James Bond, per chance? LOL!

I write the things I do for those like you that have an open mind because like a parachute, it only works if it is open. So, to put it simply, weather modification has been around in earnest since the mid 70's but now the technology is so precise that steering weather fronts is as easy as steering a car. The technology to do it really isn't that hard to understand or grasp...the concepts are simple and the MIC has all the funds they need to make it happen.

 

[charwin95]

You did not even answer any of my questions. Why?

Meaning your link is nothing but anti Obama.
What is that supposed to represent? but bogus and full of crap.

I don't have to produce anything. You have to prove why you think pulling out from this climate accord is good for America? Not me.
I have the CEOs, businesses and around the globe that supports me. The whole world is furious and kicking our ass because of your god.

And YES you need to justify what you are talking about because followers like you don't even know what these means to the whole world.

Go read it. It is NOT anti-Obama, it is a group of people who follow a conservative philosophy. Your answers are in their report and it explains pretty closely why I think its a good thing to pull out of the Paris accords. As for what it means to the whole world, why should their greed affect Me?

1. You did not answer any of my questions. If you don't mind can you answer my questions?
2. It's been proven that climate change is real.
3. What greed are you talking about?
4. You are telling me that 195 countries, scientist, businesses, CEOs ------- and the rest of the world is wrong. That Trump is right? NO Trump is very wrong. He think this is a hoax.
Bottom line he did this unthinkable, unimaginable and dumb move because of dying industry----- the coal.

Trump and your explanation from pulling out of the accord is NOT acceptable.

"2. It's been proven that climate change is real."

Natural variation and thus natural climate change is very real. It's the made up man induced crap that is not.. Now if you were legitimately wanting to talk about mans influence, as of the state of known quantifiable and empirically based science today, mans impact can not be discerned from noise in our climatic system.

"3. What greed are you talking about?"

Ottamar Edenhoffer said it best..

If you needed any more evidence that the entire theory of manmade global warming was a scheme to redistribute wealth you got it Sunday when a leading member of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change told a German news outlet, "[W]e redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy."

Such was originally published by Germany's NZZ Online Sunday, and reprinted in English by the Global Warming Policy Foundation moments ago:

(NZZ AM SONNTAG): The new thing about your proposal for a Global Deal is the stress on the importance of development policy for climate policy. Until now, many think of aid when they hear development policies.

(OTTMAR EDENHOFER, UN IPCC OFFICIAL): That will change immediately if global emission rights are distributed. If this happens, on a per capita basis, then Africa will be the big winner, and huge amounts of money will flow there. This will have enormous implications for development policy. And it will raise the question if these countries can deal responsibly with so much money at all.

(NZZ): That does not sound anymore like the climate policy that we know.

(EDENHOFER): Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War. Why? Because we have 11,000 gigatons of carbon in the coal reserves in the soil under our feet - and we must emit only 400 gigatons in the atmosphere if we want to keep the 2-degree target. 11 000 to 400 - there is no getting around the fact that most of the fossil reserves must remain in the soil.

(NZZ): De facto, this means an expropriation of the countries with natural resources. This leads to a very different development from that which has been triggered by development policy.

(EDENHOFER): First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

For the record, Edenhofer was co-chair of the IPCC's Working Group III, and was a lead author of the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report released in 2007 which controversially concluded, "Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."

As such, this man is a huge player in advancing this theory, and he has now made it quite clear - as folks on the realist side of this debate have been saying for years - that this is actually an international economic scheme designed to redistribute wealth.

UN IPCC Official Admits 'We Redistribute World's Wealth By Climate Policy'


"4. You are telling me that 195 countries, scientist, businesses, CEOs ------- and the rest of the world is wrong. "

I prefer the words "useful idiots". Socialism and the scam to take peoples freedoms from them was taken hook, line, and sinker... My answer to your previous question answers this one too...


Where is your quantifiable, repeatable, verifiable science with empirical evidence to support your man made global warming? Still haven't seen it anywhere..Still asking for the evidence.

I am very familiar with h Edenhoffer. LOL.
Read your what he is saying and tell me what is wrong.

Clueless.... to the last....

Do you expect me to believe what you are bull shitting when you cannot even prove you $380 billions.
Now tell me if your rebuttal are credible. Idiot.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Bear, you are in denial

'Washington can't stop Americans': Michael Bloomberg pledges to pay US share of Paris climate funding

'Washington can't stop Americans': Michael Bloomberg pledges to pay US share of Paris climate funding

Bloomberg doesn't have the funds to pay for it.. He is a moron..

Yes he does. It's coming out from his own pocket dumb shit.

15 million doesn't even pay the interest that would compound on the unpaid debt. The Illegally Obama placed debt....

 

[JBond]

Since when do we care about what "Germany and France" think?

It's not only France and Germany------- Its the whole world laughing at us because we are going backwards.
The whole world is sacrificing for the sake of one Planet A and the future. There is no planet B.

They were laughing at Obama behind his back when he signed on to this giant swindle.

Sent from my SM-G935P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

The whole world signed and agreed to this accord except Nicaragua and Syria. The whole world supports Obama.
Today the whole world is laughing at Trump and blasting Trump as a ignorant who claim this is hoax here and over seas. That's a fact.
BTW his EPA chief cannot even answer direct questions from his news briefing today. That's a fact.

If the whole world signed onto this farce, why the need for the US to do it too? Seems like those countries will do just fine without us.

US is the second worst polluters. We are the leader not a backward follower. We now at level of Syria and Nicaragua. Even China the worst polluters sign on to this accord.

When you actually know what you are talking about, and want to debate any of your previous posts, let me know.

 

[bripat9643]

Then why are all the douche bags who support the treaty acting like we're missing out on something by rejecting it?

We are missing out on being respected by the rest of the world

The global warming douche bags claim we would benefit economically from the treaty. Which is it? Do we benefit or not?

It's not a treaty. Yes we benefit from the climate accord. Look around the progress we have accomplished in last 5 years.

What are you talking about look at all the progress we accomplished in the past 50 years...

With out the paris accord.


.

Did you missed we lowered the emissions in last 5 years or so?
Without the accord wherefore you think this planet is going Bear? Didn't you noticed Bears are now invading human habitat in Alaska and other parts of the world because they cannot find food in the wilderness.
Now if that trends continue. Where do you think those bears go?

The bears are invading human habitat because raiding garbage cans is far easier than hunting, and the bears are over populating.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Go read it. It is NOT anti-Obama, it is a group of people who follow a conservative philosophy. Your answers are in their report and it explains pretty closely why I think its a good thing to pull out of the Paris accords. As for what it means to the whole world, why should their greed affect Me?

1. You did not answer any of my questions. If you don't mind can you answer my questions?
2. It's been proven that climate change is real.
3. What greed are you talking about?
4. You are telling me that 195 countries, scientist, businesses, CEOs ------- and the rest of the world is wrong. That Trump is right? NO Trump is very wrong. He think this is a hoax.
Bottom line he did this unthinkable, unimaginable and dumb move because of dying industry----- the coal.

Trump and your explanation from pulling out of the accord is NOT acceptable.

"2. It's been proven that climate change is real."

Natural variation and thus natural climate change is very real. It's the made up man induced crap that is not.. Now if you were legitimately wanting to talk about mans influence, as of the state of known quantifiable and empirically based science today, mans impact can not be discerned from noise in our climatic system.

"3. What greed are you talking about?"

Ottamar Edenhoffer said it best..

If you needed any more evidence that the entire theory of manmade global warming was a scheme to redistribute wealth you got it Sunday when a leading member of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change told a German news outlet, "[W]e redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy."

Such was originally published by Germany's NZZ Online Sunday, and reprinted in English by the Global Warming Policy Foundation moments ago:

(NZZ AM SONNTAG): The new thing about your proposal for a Global Deal is the stress on the importance of development policy for climate policy. Until now, many think of aid when they hear development policies.

(OTTMAR EDENHOFER, UN IPCC OFFICIAL): That will change immediately if global emission rights are distributed. If this happens, on a per capita basis, then Africa will be the big winner, and huge amounts of money will flow there. This will have enormous implications for development policy. And it will raise the question if these countries can deal responsibly with so much money at all.

(NZZ): That does not sound anymore like the climate policy that we know.

(EDENHOFER): Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War. Why? Because we have 11,000 gigatons of carbon in the coal reserves in the soil under our feet - and we must emit only 400 gigatons in the atmosphere if we want to keep the 2-degree target. 11 000 to 400 - there is no getting around the fact that most of the fossil reserves must remain in the soil.

(NZZ): De facto, this means an expropriation of the countries with natural resources. This leads to a very different development from that which has been triggered by development policy.

(EDENHOFER): First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

For the record, Edenhofer was co-chair of the IPCC's Working Group III, and was a lead author of the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report released in 2007 which controversially concluded, "Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations."

As such, this man is a huge player in advancing this theory, and he has now made it quite clear - as folks on the realist side of this debate have been saying for years - that this is actually an international economic scheme designed to redistribute wealth.

UN IPCC Official Admits 'We Redistribute World's Wealth By Climate Policy'


"4. You are telling me that 195 countries, scientist, businesses, CEOs ------- and the rest of the world is wrong. "

I prefer the words "useful idiots". Socialism and the scam to take peoples freedoms from them was taken hook, line, and sinker... My answer to your previous question answers this one too...


Where is your quantifiable, repeatable, verifiable science with empirical evidence to support your man made global warming? Still haven't seen it anywhere..Still asking for the evidence.

I am very familiar with h Edenhoffer. LOL.
Read your what he is saying and tell me what is wrong.

Clueless.... to the last....

Do you expect me to believe what you are bull shitting when you cannot even prove you $380 billions.
Now tell me if your rebuttal are credible. Idiot.

Its useless to get you to try and understand why and how the damn accord was set up to work.. If your not willing to go find out for yourself and learn then be the fool that you are... Good Luck Moron..

 

[Dale Smith]

Since when do we care about what "Germany and France" think?

It's not only France and Germany------- Its the whole world laughing at us because we are going backwards.
The whole world is sacrificing for the sake of one Planet A and the future. There is no planet B.

They were laughing at Obama behind his back when he signed on to this giant swindle.

Sent from my SM-G935P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

The whole world signed and agreed to this accord except Nicaragua and Syria. The whole world supports Obama.
Today the whole world is laughing at Trump and blasting Trump as a ignorant who claim this is hoax here and over seas. That's a fact.
BTW his EPA chief cannot even answer direct questions from his news briefing today. That's a fact.

If the whole world signed onto this farce, why the need for the US to do it too? Seems like those countries will do just fine without us.

US is the second worst polluters. We are the leader not a backward follower. We now at level of Syria and Nicaragua. Even China the worst polluters sign on to this accord.

Really? Have you a link to back up that contention? I mean, I know that pollution has been done intentionally per the contents of the Iron Mountain Report released in 1967 but the major source of shoring jobs has been to countries that were not under the tight restraints of a corporate entity like the EPA......let's see your sources......

 

[bripat9643]

We are missing out on being respected by the rest of the world

The global warming douche bags claim we would benefit economically from the treaty. Which is it? Do we benefit or not?

It's not a treaty. Yes we benefit from the climate accord. Look around the progress we have accomplished in last 5 years.

What are you talking about look at all the progress we accomplished in the past 50 years...

With out the paris accord.


.

Did you missed we lowered the emissions in last 5 years or so?
Without the accord wherefore you think this planet is going Bear? Didn't you noticed Bears are now invading human habitat in Alaska and other parts of the world because they cannot find food in the wilderness.
Now if that trends continue. Where do you think those bears go?

And how would the Paris Accord stop that?

I asked before (with no response from the left) so I'll ask again: what does this accord do for us that we couldn't do for ourselves if we wanted?

Well, we can always spend $100 billion that we don't have.

 

[Derelict_Drvr]

Quick Facts on Ice Shelves | National Snow and Ice Data Center

Why are ice shelves important?
Because ice shelves already float in the ocean, they do not contribute directly to sea level rise when they break up. However, ice shelf collapse could contribute to sea level rise indirectly. Ice streams and glaciers constantly push on ice shelves, but the shelves eventually come up against coastal features such as islands and peninsulas, building pressure that slows their movement into the ocean. If an ice shelf collapses, the backpressure disappears. The glaciers that fed into the ice shelf speed up, flowing more quickly out to sea. Glaciers and ice sheets rest on land, so once they flow into the ocean, they contribute to sea level rise.


You're welcome.

how you figure? they used the word 'could'. the fact is no added water. so again, your point is what?

Bah! Who needs science, amiright?

Let's use some science! Oceans make up about 70% of the earths surface which is about 140 million square miles. How many square miles of dangling ice shelves would be required to elevate the worlds oceans by say...an inch?

Let's see. If I did my computations right (LxWxDx amount of rise), 140000000 sq. miles x 12100 ft average depth converted to sq. ft, then x .10 (1.2 inches), I come up with 2,303,072.302 cu. miles of water/ice to raise the earth's oceans 1.2 inches.

But correct me if I'm wrong.

It is my pleasure to correct you.

You are off by a factor of 1,000.

It takes about 2,000 cubic miles to raise the oceans by one inch.

Just to give you some perspective, there is about 5,614,000 cubic miles of groundwater on Earth.

How do you figure? 140,000,000 square miles of ocean surface. Multiple that be 5280 squared to get square feet, that multiply by 12,100 average depth of oceans, then multiply that be .10 to get a rise of 1.2 inches. That gives you the area in feet required. Then divide the total by 5280 cubed to get the total cubic miles of ice required to raise the oceans 1.2 inches.

LxW (already figured) xD (12100) x.10 gives total volume in cubic ft of the oceans. .10 is the amount added to that volume to raise surface level. Divide resultant number by by 5280 cubed gives you 2.5 million square miles for water to raise 140,000,000 square miles of surface 1.2 inches.

Prove me wrong. I showed you mine, now show me yours, if you can.

 

[bripat9643]

The US cost this next year, for the Paris agreement, was to be over 380 billion dollars... Which Trump just cut from our budget... Germany was slated to receive over 18 billion of those funds as were most of the EU states.. You want to know why Germany was so pissed? This is it.. Same with the French... They all had their damn hands out expecting the US to pay up.. Trump just took that away and many of these countries were counting on that money for their budgets.

The Obama wealth redistribution money fairy just got run over with a train... This is why Europe is so pissed off..

IT WAS A BAD DEAL FOR THE US...

 

[bripat9643]

And America is saying fuck Trump. As of today three states, 100 cities, scores of major corporations, hundreds of businesses, and millions of citizens are saying "no, orange one, no." All of that community growing exponentially will work with the UN and each other for the goals of the Accord. Not a damn thing Trump can do about it.

If any of you don't like it, move to Syria and nowhereaguay.

Maybe it's time you move. We're in charge now and WE call the shots--not you.

As for cities and states, they can do whatever they want--they always could. You don't need Trump's permission for that. Let all these loud mouths spend billions of their taxpayers money on this nonsense. Trump doesn't care and neither do we. Run your city or state into a hole for all we care. Trump won't bail you out and neither will the Republicans.

You don't call anything.

The USA cannot begin leaving the Accord until 2020, and Trump and you can do nothing about American governments, institutions, business, corporations, groups, and individuals working together to work for the Accord's success.

Trump's bans are dead in the water. Gorsuch may not vote to hear them. Watch. They may not make to SCOTUS until after Trump is out of office.

RussiaGate investigation continues with no hindrance in the DOJ and Congress. Now it may be a criminal problem for the Trump associates as well an intel operation about them.

You guys are so messed up.

We don't have to abide by anything on that piece of toilet paper. And when we don't, who's going to force us to?

Yes, we do call the shots, that's why we have elections. And as I was told, elections have consequences.

The Accord will not be a success, and Trump made sure of that. Everybody in this country is free to follow it if they like, but no brownie points. Like I said, run your business, city, state, county right into a hole. There is no law against stupidity in this country.

How are they going to follow it, send $380 billion to the U.N.?

 

[JBond]

Dale, I love your posts, or most of them. Some things go over my head. I am a simple business owner. I do not have an engineering degree. Dumb it down like an executive briefing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Bond......James Bond, per chance? LOL!

I write the things I do for those like you that have an open mind because like a parachute, it only works if it is open. So, to put it simply, weather modification has been around in earnest since the mid 70's but now the technology is so precise that steering weather fronts is as easy as steering a car. The technology to do it really isn't that hard to understand or grasp...the concepts are simple and the MIC has all the funds they need to make it happen.

Some people believe that if you have something to say, say it. Get to the point. Thanks, you did that. Next step, verify.

 

[bripat9643]

We are missing out on being respected by the rest of the world

The global warming douche bags claim we would benefit economically from the treaty. Which is it? Do we benefit or not?

It's not a treaty. Yes we benefit from the climate accord. Look around the progress we have accomplished in last 5 years.

Yep, and I know all about some of those accomplishments.

One of them was forcing diesel fuel companies to have lower sulfur in the fuel. Since that time, diesel fuel became more expensive than gasoline whereas before, diesel was around a dollar a gallon less.

Yes, it closed down some trucking operations and private haulers, but government didn't stop there.

My employer started to price new tractors to replace our old equipment a few years back. Tractors were around 10K more per unit than three years earlier. All that pollutions shit they force truck manufacturers to install in the truck was the main reason. Now, over 80% of the time something is wrong with the truck, it has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire. Our trucks are in the shop nearly every month now, and truck garages charge $80.00 per hour plus parts. Our mechanic told me that they don't have one computer anymore, they have three that have to work in sync with each other, and computers don't always perform well in single digit weather.

What's more? Diesel Emission Fluid, or DEF for short. Yes, now we have to fill up with DEF which is a separate reservoir. DEF is pollution shit that squirts into the exhaust pipe supposedly to make the fumes less harmful to the environment. If you run out of DEF, you screw up your engine.

We have to pass all these costs to our customers, and our customers pass on those costs to us--the US consumer. It also may be the breaking point of a company leaving the US because manufacturing being too expensive in this country.

But hell, it's worth it, isn't it? I mean after all, now all the environmentalists are happy and stopped complaining and making more demands.............Oh wait!!!!!!

That is incorrect. Your example is way off.
This accord started somewhere in the late 90s this did not even take effect till 2014.
Cutting the emissions from diesels engines is a major accomplishments because they omit a lot of dangerous gas that causes smog and to human health all over the US and the world.
Have you traveled to Riverside county where the concentration of heavy smog in California coming from the west counties?
We use to have lots of cars that used diesels now they are almost gone. Which is excellent.
I was in Asia early 2016 and I saw the difference of how other countries are complying with h the climate change and that includes China.

What do you mean my "example" is way off? What example? I'm a truck driver and I'm telling you the truth that your green people won't tell you about. Every single thing you buy in the store today has an intrinsic green cost to it. It may be pennies, it may be dollars, it may be hundreds of dollars, it may be thousands of dollars--but you are paying it and so am I.

So I'm going to give you nightmares tonight. I'm going to ask you what I ask of every environmentalist: What would it take to shut you people up permanently? How much would it cost, and what is the goal?

You can't answer that question and neither can any environmentalist. Why? Because there is no end to this. It's a bottomless money pit that can never be filled. How do I know this? Because we've spent trillions of dollars trying to make environmentalists happy the last 50 years, and they are more miserable today than they were 50 years ago.

BINGO!

 

[Billy_Bob]

What do you mean my "example" is way off? What example? I'm a truck driver and I'm telling you the truth that your green people won't tell you about. Every single thing you buy in the store today has an intrinsic green cost to it. It may be pennies, it may be dollars, it may be hundreds of dollars, it may be thousands of dollars--but you are paying it and so am I.

So I'm going to give you nightmares tonight. I'm going to ask you what I ask of every environmentalist: What would it take to shut you people up permanently? How much would it cost, and what is the goal?

You can't answer that question and neither can any environmentalist. Why? Because there is no end to this. It's a bottomless money pit that can never be filled. How do I know this? Because we've spent trillions of dollars trying to make environmentalists happy the last 50 years, and they are more miserable today than they were 50 years ago.

Bottom line people like you is DON'T do nothing and don't worry about it. That is not acceptable and indefensible.
Where do you think this planet is going if we don't don't act now?

How to shut off people like me that care about your future? How to shut off people like me permanently that care ? How much would it cost?
Answer: There are no amount that can be measured to save this planet both your future and your kids. There are no way way to shut off people that cares. It is much worse to look the other way---- your side.

You said it exactly: there is no amount.

Don't feel bad, that's the way most leftists feel: there is no amount.

What do I do? I recycle everything that can be recycled. I drive a car that get's 32 MPH. I work 18 miles from my home and I fill up once every two weeks. What do you do with your big boat avatar?????

And where do you think this planet would go with the Paris Accord? In one hundred years, we "may" lower the temperature by a fraction of one degree? That's worth trillions of dollars; mostly US dollars?

The more expensive you make it on industry, the more likely industry will take actions to avoid those costs like so many have in the past. That's why most of our goods are made in China; China who doesn't have to do one thing to reduce their footprint for over a decade.

Since you care so much about the planet, tell me, how much did it cost you to erect that windmill in your backyard? How much do you pay in bus fare to go everywhere you need to go? How much did you pay for those solar panels on the roof of your house? How low do you keep your thermostat in the winter, and how high in the summer?

I'd bet my dime to your dollar you don't do any of these things.

It's not a matter of lowering the temperature a fraction of a degree, that's not possible. It's about keeping the rise to less than 1.5 to 2.0 degrees which are going to be devastating to coastal areas. If we don't attain this goal, the chance of reversal global warming is slim to none.

Sea level rise has not accelerated in over 300 years.. What are you using for proof of this dire prediction?

Sea level has been rising over the past century, and the rate has increased in recent decades. In 2014, global sea level was 2.6 inches (67 mm) above the 1993 average—the highest annual average in the satellite record (1993-present). Sea level continues to rise at a rate of about one-eighth of an inch (3.2 mm) per year, due to a combination of melting glaciers and ice sheets, and thermal expansion of seawater as it warms.
Is sea level rising?

NASA has been adding 1.8mm to the real 1.4mm rise as the satellites were not giving them the rise they wanted. Their justification for that correction was the LAND SUBSIDENCE in FLORIDA... The reason has been debunked as an unwarranted "correction" as 98% of all other ground based tidal gauges show less than 1mm/year rise....

As to the thermal expansion, look at the drop of over 4-6 deg C of the earths oceans in the last 3 years.. What do you think that does to it?

DO you people ever think cognitively about the shit that is going on around you? Do you ever use commonsense thought?

 

[JBond]

And America is saying fuck Trump. As of today three states, 100 cities, scores of major corporations, hundreds of businesses, and millions of citizens are saying "no, orange one, no." All of that community growing exponentially will work with the UN and each other for the goals of the Accord. Not a damn thing Trump can do about it.

If any of you don't like it, move to Syria and nowhereaguay.

Maybe it's time you move. We're in charge now and WE call the shots--not you.

As for cities and states, they can do whatever they want--they always could. You don't need Trump's permission for that. Let all these loud mouths spend billions of their taxpayers money on this nonsense. Trump doesn't care and neither do we. Run your city or state into a hole for all we care. Trump won't bail you out and neither will the Republicans.

You don't call anything.

The USA cannot begin leaving the Accord until 2020, and Trump and you can do nothing about American governments, institutions, business, corporations, groups, and individuals working together to work for the Accord's success.

Trump's bans are dead in the water. Gorsuch may not vote to hear them. Watch. They may not make to SCOTUS until after Trump is out of office.

RussiaGate investigation continues with no hindrance in the DOJ and Congress. Now it may be a criminal problem for the Trump associates as well an intel operation about them.

You guys are so messed up.

We don't have to abide by anything on that piece of toilet paper. And when we don't, who's going to force us to?

Yes, we do call the shots, that's why we have elections. And as I was told, elections have consequences.

The Accord will not be a success, and Trump made sure of that. Everybody in this country is free to follow it if they like, but no brownie points. Like I said, run your business, city, state, county right into a hole. There is no law against stupidity in this country.

How are they going to follow it, send $380 billion to the U.N.?

That's worked well in the past. Sigh.

 

[bripat9643]

No rules in a knife, yeah, and millions of Americans, hundred cities, three states, scores of big businesses, hundreds of other businesses are all much bigger than a knife fight. There is not a thing Trump can do to stop them from working with the UN on the goals of the Paris Accord. This is all much bigger than Trump and his tiny little followers.

The major impact of Trump pulling the US out of the Paris Accords, is passing leadership to China, the largest producer of both Solar and Wind power technologies, a position which the US was striving to attain. And for what? To save the dying coal industry. That's not going to happen. The conversion from coal to natural gas in power plants, industrial and residential use will remain the same because the increase in natural gas production will continue to lower the prices and the desire cleaner burning fuel will continue to force US coal producers out of the market. What stupidity, all to fill a campaign promise that will be meaningless in the next election.

But China was given a free thirteen year pass on doing anything about their "emissions"....so explain to me as to why it's fine for China to keep the status quo while continuing their pollution with no regulations but not "OK" for America, that has imposed it's own regulations but simply "opted" out of an agreement that would have only handcuffed them further?

Think of it like a softball game where every right-handed batter has to bat left-handed and vice versa, wear the glove on their throwing hand while the other team doesn't while spotting them a ten run lead before the game even starts.....which team is gonna win??? You haven't thought this out very well.

As far as energy goes? The technology to get off of petroleum and coal (which by the way is NOT a "fossil fuel) has been around since the days of Nikola Tesla but since the world's economy revolves around the petro-dollar, a fiat currency backed by nothing with an intrinsic value? Don't count on anything changing but the continual downgrade of the middle class.

Questions?????

Both petroleum and coal are fossil fuels. That's pretty much what the term means, petroleum and coal.

 

[bripat9643]

Since when do we care about what "Germany and France" think?

It's not only France and Germany------- Its the whole world laughing at us because we are going backwards.
The whole world is sacrificing for the sake of one Planet A and the future. There is no planet B.

They were laughing at Obama behind his back when he signed on to this giant swindle.

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The whole world signed and agreed to this accord except Nicaragua and Syria. The whole world supports Obama.
Today the whole world is laughing at Trump and blasting Trump as a ignorant who claim this is hoax here and over seas. That's a fact.
BTW his EPA chief cannot even answer direct questions from his news briefing today. That's a fact.

If the whole world signed onto this farce, why the need for the US to do it too? Seems like those countries will do just fine without us.

The US was the only country that was going to pay into it, so it's worthless without our participation. You can't have a pig roast without a pig.

 

[bripat9643]

Of course citizens, businesses, governmental entities such as states and cities make deal with foreign governments all the time.

You mean collusion????

No, mayor and governors can certainly promote their cities and states with foreign powers. They can not sign treaties or agreements on behalf of the federal government but they can promote the industries in their state which many states do. They can also offer incentives to foreign or domestic businesses for dealing with businesses in their state.

So what's going to change?

 

[bripat9643]

It's not a treaty. Yes we benefit from the climate accord. Look around the progress we have accomplished in last 5 years.

Yep, and I know all about some of those accomplishments.

One of them was forcing diesel fuel companies to have lower sulfur in the fuel. Since that time, diesel fuel became more expensive than gasoline whereas before, diesel was around a dollar a gallon less.

Yes, it closed down some trucking operations and private haulers, but government didn't stop there.

My employer started to price new tractors to replace our old equipment a few years back. Tractors were around 10K more per unit than three years earlier. All that pollutions shit they force truck manufacturers to install in the truck was the main reason. Now, over 80% of the time something is wrong with the truck, it has to do with some pollution gadget going haywire. Our trucks are in the shop nearly every month now, and truck garages charge $80.00 per hour plus parts. Our mechanic told me that they don't have one computer anymore, they have three that have to work in sync with each other, and computers don't always perform well in single digit weather.

What's more? Diesel Emission Fluid, or DEF for short. Yes, now we have to fill up with DEF which is a separate reservoir. DEF is pollution shit that squirts into the exhaust pipe supposedly to make the fumes less harmful to the environment. If you run out of DEF, you screw up your engine.

We have to pass all these costs to our customers, and our customers pass on those costs to us--the US consumer. It also may be the breaking point of a company leaving the US because manufacturing being too expensive in this country.

But hell, it's worth it, isn't it? I mean after all, now all the environmentalists are happy and stopped complaining and making more demands.............Oh wait!!!!!!

That is incorrect. Your example is way off.
This accord started somewhere in the late 90s this did not even take effect till 2014.
Cutting the emissions from diesels engines is a major accomplishments because they omit a lot of dangerous gas that causes smog and to human health all over the US and the world.
Have you traveled to Riverside county where the concentration of heavy smog in California coming from the west counties?
We use to have lots of cars that used diesels now they are almost gone. Which is excellent.
I was in Asia early 2016 and I saw the difference of how other countries are complying with h the climate change and that includes China.

What do you mean my "example" is way off? What example? I'm a truck driver and I'm telling you the truth that your green people won't tell you about. Every single thing you buy in the store today has an intrinsic green cost to it. It may be pennies, it may be dollars, it may be hundreds of dollars, it may be thousands of dollars--but you are paying it and so am I.

So I'm going to give you nightmares tonight. I'm going to ask you what I ask of every environmentalist: What would it take to shut you people up permanently? How much would it cost, and what is the goal?

You can't answer that question and neither can any environmentalist. Why? Because there is no end to this. It's a bottomless money pit that can never be filled. How do I know this? Because we've spent trillions of dollars trying to make environmentalists happy the last 50 years, and they are more miserable today than they were 50 years ago.

Bottom line people like you is DON'T do nothing and don't worry about it. That is not acceptable and indefensible.
Where do you think this planet is going if we don't don't act now?

How to shut off people like me that care about your future? How to shut off people like me permanently that care ? How much would it cost?
Answer: There are no amount that can be measured to save this planet both your future and your kids. There are no way way to shut off people that cares. It is much worse to look the other way---- your side.

You said it exactly: there is no amount.

Don't feel bad, that's the way most leftists feel: there is no amount.

What do I do? I recycle everything that can be recycled. I drive a car that get's 32 MPH. I work 18 miles from my home and I fill up once every two weeks. What do you do with your big boat avatar?????

And where do you think this planet would go with the Paris Accord? In one hundred years, we "may" lower the temperature by a fraction of one degree? That's worth trillions of dollars; mostly US dollars?

The more expensive you make it on industry, the more likely industry will take actions to avoid those costs like so many have in the past. That's why most of our goods are made in China; China who doesn't have to do one thing to reduce their footprint for over a decade.

Since you care so much about the planet, tell me, how much did it cost you to erect that windmill in your backyard? How much do you pay in bus fare to go everywhere you need to go? How much did you pay for those solar panels on the roof of your house? How low do you keep your thermostat in the winter, and how high in the summer?

I'd bet my dime to your dollar you don't do any of these things.

It's difficult to believe that he admitted it.

BTW, there's a reason TVs are no longer made in the USA: environmental regulations. It has nothing to do with outsourcing or any of the other evils that leftwingers always lament.

 

[JBond]

No rules in a knife, yeah, and millions of Americans, hundred cities, three states, scores of big businesses, hundreds of other businesses are all much bigger than a knife fight. There is not a thing Trump can do to stop them from working with the UN on the goals of the Paris Accord. This is all much bigger than Trump and his tiny little followers.

The major impact of Trump pulling the US out of the Paris Accords, is passing leadership to China, the largest producer of both Solar and Wind power technologies, a position which the US was striving to attain. And for what? To save the dying coal industry. That's not going to happen. The conversion from coal to natural gas in power plants, industrial and residential use will remain the same because the increase in natural gas production will continue to lower the prices and the desire cleaner burning fuel will continue to force US coal producers out of the market. What stupidity, all to fill a campaign promise that will be meaningless in the next election.

But China was given a free thirteen year pass on doing anything about their "emissions"....so explain to me as to why it's fine for China to keep the status quo while continuing their pollution with no regulations but not "OK" for America, that has imposed it's own regulations but simply "opted" out of an agreement that would have only handcuffed them further?

Think of it like a softball game where every right-handed batter has to bat left-handed and vice versa, wear the glove on their throwing hand while the other team doesn't while spotting them a ten run lead before the game even starts.....which team is gonna win??? You haven't thought this out very well.

As far as energy goes? The technology to get off of petroleum and coal (which by the way is NOT a "fossil fuel) has been around since the days of Nikola Tesla but since the world's economy revolves around the petro-dollar, a fiat currency backed by nothing with an intrinsic value? Don't count on anything changing but the continual downgrade of the middle class.

Questions?????

Both petroleum and coal are fossil fuels. That's pretty much what the term means, petroleum and coal.

Let's get every nation to sign a treaty that lives up to our standards. Environmental, paid leave, holidays, no slave labor.