Trump Unhinged: 'Punishment' For Women Who Abort

[Valerie]

Induced Abortion in the United States

• Nearly half of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and about four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion.[1]

•Twenty-one percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]

• In 2011, 1.06 million abortions were performed, down 13% from 1.21 million in 2008. From 1973 through 2011, nearly 53 million legal abortions occurred.[2]

• Each year, 1.7% of women aged 15–44 have an abortion [2]. Half have had at least one previous abortion.[3]

• At least half of American women will experience an unintended pregnancy by age 45, and at 2008 abortion rates, one in 10 women will have an abortion by age 20, one in four by age 30 and three in 10 by age 45.[4,5]

Induced Abortion in the United States


WHO HAS ABORTIONS?

• Eighteen percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are teenagers; those aged 15–17 obtain 6% of all abortions, 18–19-year-olds obtain 11%, and teens younger than 15 obtain 0.4%.[3]

• Women in their 20s account for more than half of all abortions: Women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and women aged 25–29 obtain 24%.[3]

• Non-Hispanic white women account for 36% of abortions, non-Hispanic black women for 30%, Hispanic women for 25% and women of other races for 9%.[3]

• Thirty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions identify as Protestant and 28% identify as Catholic.[3]

• Women who have never married and are not cohabiting account for 45% of all abortions.[3]

• About 61% of abortions are obtained by women who have at least one child.[3]

• Forty-two percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes below 100% of the federal poverty level ($10,830 for a single woman with no children).[3]

• Twenty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes between 100 and 199% of the federal poverty level.*[3]

• The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[6]

• Fifty-one percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method in the month they got pregnant, most commonly condoms (27%) or a hormonal method (17%).[7]

 

[Valerie]

EARLY MEDICATION ABORTION

• In September 2000, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved mifepristone to be marketed in the United States as an alternative to surgical abortion.

• In 2011, 59% of abortion providers, or 1,023 facilities, provided one or more early medication abortions. At least 17% of providers offer only early medication abortion services.[2]

• Medication abortion accounted for 23% of all nonhospital abortions and 36% of abortions before nine weeks’ gestation, in 2011.[2]

• Early medication abortions have increased from 6% of all abortions in 2001 to 23% in 2011, even while the overall number of abortions continued to decline. Data from the CDC show abortions shifting earlier within the first trimester, likely due, in part, to the availability of medication abortion services.[2]

SAFETY OF ABORTION

• A first-trimester abortion is one of the safest medical procedures, with minimal risk—less than 0.05%—of major complications that might need hospital care.[9]

• Abortions performed in the first trimester pose virtually no long-term risk of such problems as infertility, ectopic pregnancy, spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or birth defect, and little or no risk of preterm or low-birth-weight deliveries.[10]

• Exhaustive reviews by panels convened by the U.S. and British governments have concluded that there is no association between abortion and breast cancer. There is also no indication that abortion is a risk factor for other cancers.[10]

• Leading experts have concluded that, among women who have an unplanned pregnancy, the risk of mental health problems is no greater if they have a single first-trimester abortion than if they carry the pregnancy to term.[11]

• The risk of death associated with abortion increases with the length of pregnancy, from one death for every one million abortions at or before eight weeks to one per 29,000 at 16–20 weeks—and one per 11,000 at 21 weeks or later.[12]

• Fifty-eight percent of abortion patients say they would have liked to have had their abortion earlier. Nearly 60% of women who experienced a delay in obtaining an abortion cite the time it took to make arrangements and raise money.[13]

• Teens are more likely than older women to delay having an abortion until after 15 weeks of pregnancy, when the medical risks associated with abortion are significantly higher.[13]

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/de...henwomenhaveabortions-graph.png?itok=1AkX_f13

 

[easyt65]

The pro-life movement does not embody this nation’s moral values of freedom, equality, compassion and responsibility.

There is no 1 (ONE) pro-life movement. Anyone who claims there is or who claims to be part of that 1 (ONE) movement is wrong. There are more out-spoken, public groups that claim to BE 'the movement', but they are no different that Valerie Jarrett who attempted to hijack the very 1st 'pure' un-contaminated TEA Party movement to claim SHE was it / represented it...for her own benefit. There are so many versions and splinter groups out there - of so many 'movements', which is why Generalizing' is just BOGUS!

I, for example, am a 'pro-lifer'; yet I believe women should have all the abortions they want:
- As long as no tax dollars are used to pay for them
- As long as barbaric late term abortions, where babies capable of surviving outside the womb are murdered, are outlawed.

Pro-Life means protecting human life - babies who are capable of surviving outside the womb. It does NOT mean 'Anti-Choice', to prevent women from having an early-stage abortion. It also does not mean refusing an abortion in order to save a woman's life OR forcing a rape victim to have to carry a baby from the rapist that impregnated her.

There are nut jobs who do not believe in these, who do want all of it banned, and who claim to speak for all 'pro-lifers' as THE "pro-Life movement' in the US.

They are wrong. They don't speak for me ... or for many others like me.

 

[Valerie]

self righteous ghouls seek legislation to force vaginal probe ultrasounds. ^

as if women just don't understand the 'evil' choice they're making without having their noses rubbed in the visual by their oppressive government. speaking of immoral!

 

[L.K.Eder]

The question was if women who have abortions should abortions be banned - as in made ILLEGAL - be punished. Trump said 'Yes'.

OF COURSE they would need to be punished for BREAKING THE LAW. HOW DARE Trump suggest we hold people accountable and actually ENFORCE existing law - that's NOT how we do it under Obama anymore. If you disagree with a law you just don't enforce it.

Good grief, grow up people.

They will only hear and repeat the juicy sound bite. It's how they roll.

what difference, at this point, does it make?

 

[easyt65]

Back to the MAIN point of this thread:

Trump did nothing wrong, IMO, by giving his opinion that the perpetrator of a crime - who breaks existing law - in this country should be punished in some way. As pointed out, a judge could make that punishment 'rehab', counseling, etc.

EVERY existing law should be enforced, however, and those who break the law should be 'punished' in some way.

 

[bendog]

Trump got assaulted by Chris Mathews in an interview and MSNBC got the GOP front runner to say that women should be punished for having an illegal abortion, the man should not. Following the interview Trump immediately back peddled back to the accepted viewpoint that the women shouldn't be punished but the doctor should. Even for conservatives saying a women should be punished is political suicide.

I'm sure what was going through Trumps head was very simple. If somebody breaks the law they should be punished. I guess for conservatives there are exceptions to this in the case of abortions because the female vote is at stake.

It makes me curious though, as I see the slew of conservatives demonizing Trump for the statement... Why would they not punish somebody for breaking the law? And if this principle be true than shouldn't people who do illegal drugs not be punished... only the drug dealers?

Even the pro-lifers know that making abortion a crime that women would be guilty of is an absurdly impossible sale to make to the American people,

so the pro-lifers made up the nonsensical position that abortion should be outlawed, but the perpetrators shouldn't be considered outlaws.

The thread failed when it analogized getting an abortion to buying drugs.

The analogy is near perfect. A better one is, let's keep rape illegal, but treat the rapist as a victim rather than as a criminal.

No the analogy is an epic fail, because no woman actually enjoys getting an abortion. That's why even when abortion was illegal, not many were interested in punishing the woman. Even most pro-life folks view the woman as a victim as well as the fetus.

 

[easyt65]

Trump's apology - his trying to 'walk back' his response - is the 'epic fail'. It seems his dumbass advisors are caving in to the 'PC' police who are telling him he can't say things like 'every existing law should be enforced and those who break the law should be held accountable'.

Anyone telling Trump he has to apologize for believing and saying that reminds me of the Democratic Party moron who gave in to the demand of the Black Lives matter nut-job who insisted the politician apologize for saying ALL lives matter...and Trump, like that moronic, is actually agreeing, it seems, to the dumbass demand to apologize for believing all existing laws should be enforced and those who break them should be punished.

Trump claims abortion remarks taken out of context, but admits 'it could be that I misspoke' | Fox News

 

[Faun]

Back to the MAIN point of this thread:

Trump did nothing wrong, IMO, by giving his opinion that the perpetrator of a crime - who breaks existing law - in this country should be punished in some way. As pointed out, a judge could make that punishment 'rehab', counseling, etc.

EVERY existing law should be enforced, however, and those who break the law should be 'punished' in some way.

If he said nothing wrong -- why'd he walk it back?

 

[easyt65]

If he said nothing wrong -- why'd he walk it back?

Because the 'PC Police' and his dumbass advisors are telling him he will lose votes if he doesn't.

 

[Faun]

If he said nothing wrong -- why'd he walk it back?

Because the 'PC Police' and his dumbass advisors are telling him he will lose votes if he doesn't.

Since when does Trump take marching orders from others?

Since when is Trump PC?

Since when does Trump take anything he says back unless he believes he was wrong?

Try dealing with reality for once. Trump was wrong for saying that. He got caught up in a moment he wasn't prepared for and said something stupid. Not the end of the world, he is human after all. And because what he said was wrong -- he walked it back.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Back to the MAIN point of this thread:

Trump did nothing wrong, IMO, by giving his opinion that the perpetrator of a crime - who breaks existing law - in this country should be punished in some way. As pointed out, a judge could make that punishment 'rehab', counseling, etc.

EVERY existing law should be enforced, however, and those who break the law should be 'punished' in some way.

If he said nothing wrong -- why'd he walk it back?

it's because trump wanted to showcase that he is the best backwalker and/or walkbacker ever.

 

[easyt65]

Since when does Trump take marching orders from others?

Since when is Trump PC?

Since when does Trump take anything he says back unless he believes he was wrong?

He has been taking advice from others, as been reported in the news. Trump is stubborn and does things his own way, but he is not stupid. You can't be a successful businessman being stupid. He sees his numbers starting to slip, and he probably did see how this is being blown up to hurt him. If he is walking this back he may not believe he was wrong but - like any good politician - will do / say whatever it takes to get back in the good graces of voters to secure votes. In that Trump isn't that much different, IMO, than other politicians.

 

[easyt65]

Try dealing with reality for once. Trump was wrong for saying that.

REALITY, dear Faun, is that it is YOUR opinion that Trump was wrong in stating he believes anyone who breaks the law should be punished for doing so. It SEEMS, therefore, that YOU believe that people who break the law should only be punished when Liberals / people LIKE and / or AGREE with the law. Based on that, you probably have no problem with Obama refusing to enforce all existing immigration law, that you had no problem declaring he would not enforce the DOMA because HE did not agree with it.

 

[Faun]

Try dealing with reality for once. Trump was wrong for saying that.

REALITY, dear Faun, is that it is YOUR opinion that Trump was wrong in stating he believes anyone who breaks the law should be punished for doing so. It SEEMS, therefore, that YOU believe that people who break the law should only be punished when Liberals / people LIKE and / or AGREE with the law. Based on that, you probably have no problem with Obama refusing to enforce all existing immigration law, that you had no problem declaring he would not enforce the DOMA because HE did not agree with it.

This is too easy ... name something Trump said he ever took back while believing he was right for saying....

He doesn't. He even brags about how he doesn't.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

I hate to tell the Trump bashers who think that Chris Mathews might have scored an orgasm against him this but if something happens to be illegal then their are legal consequences for violating that particular law. I don't see anything wrong with what he said because IF abortion was illegal then women who break that law have to be punished. As far as I know He didn't say he was going to punish women who were performing legal abortions or attempt to sick the IRS on them like Obama has done for the tea party. Trump is treating women who got abortions much nicer than Obama has ever treated the tea party so I am not worried about it.

We actually don't punish all involuntary deaths caused by others the same. We have three different murder charges with different penalties depending on the crime. We also have many different kind of manslaughter charges so if a woman gets an illegal abortion she doesn't necessarily have to get the electric chair or treat it like a murder.

 

[easyt65]

This is too easy ... name something Trump said he ever took back while believing he was right for saying....

He doesn't. He even brags about how he doesn't.

Sorry, I don't follow Trump around with a notepad, and I don't care about any other time as this thread is not about any of THOSE other times.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

Try dealing with reality for once. Trump was wrong for saying that.

REALITY, dear Faun, is that it is YOUR opinion that Trump was wrong in stating he believes anyone who breaks the law should be punished for doing so. It SEEMS, therefore, that YOU believe that people who break the law should only be punished when Liberals / people LIKE and / or AGREE with the law. Based on that, you probably have no problem with Obama refusing to enforce all existing immigration law, that you had no problem declaring he would not enforce the DOMA because HE did not agree with it.

This is too easy ... name something Trump said he ever took back while believing he was right for saying....

He doesn't. He even brags about how he doesn't.

I bet Hillary wishes she could take this back

 

[Faun]

This is too easy ... name something Trump said he ever took back while believing he was right for saying....

He doesn't. He even brags about how he doesn't.

Sorry, I don't follow Trump around with a notepad, and I don't care about any other time as this thread is not about any of THOSE other times.

There are no other times. He bragged the other night on CNN's town hall how he never apologizes unless he thinks he was wrong.

 

[Valerie]

Pin blame for high abortion rates where it belongs -- on those who oppose contraception -- and call out the immorality of their position because it causes expense and suffering.

Unintended pregnancy is the main cause of abortion. Right now half of pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended.

For unmarried women between 20 and 29, that's almost 70 percent. A third of those pregnancies end in abortion. The reality is that abortion is an expensive, invasive medical procedure. For the price of one abortion, we can provide a woman with the best contraceptive protection available, something that will be over 99 percent effective for up to 12 years. If every woman had information and access to state-of-the-art long acting contraceptives, more than half of abortions could go away...

• They say: Liberals are to blame for abortion. Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill.
• We say: Obstructing contraceptive knowledge and access causes abortion and unwanted babies. That's what's immoral. We have the technology to prevent almost all of the suffering and expense caused by unintended pregnancy, but many women don't have access to that information or technology because of the twisted moral priorities of religious and cultural conservatives. Planned Parenthood has done more to prevent abortions in America than all of the choice opponents combined. The no-choice position is anti-life. It kills women. It puts faith over life.

Abortion as a Blessing, Grace, or Gift -- Changing the Conversation About Moral Values


Most "pro-life" positions aren't really pro-life; they are no-choice. They are designed to protect traditional gender roles and patriarchal institutions and, specifically, institutional religion. The Catholic Bishops and Southern Baptist Convention -- both leaders in the charge against reproductive rights -- represent traditions in which male "headship" and control of female fertility have long been tools of competition for money and power. They use moral language to advance goals that have little to do with the wellbeing of women or children or the sacred web of life that sustains us all.


The arguments they make to attain these ends are powerful emotionally but not rationally. They appeal to antiquated and brittle conceptions of God. They appeal to the crumbling illusion of biblical and ecclesiastical perfection -- and the crumbling authority of authority itself. They corrupt the civil rights tradition and turn religious freedom on its head. They play games with our protective instinct and cheapen what it means to be a person. They lie.