Trump will leave office with a historically bad economic record

[hadit]

Anyone else get the feeling every one of Danny Boy’s posts are just a cut and paste from the Communist Manifesto, or some other claptrap by Marx?

Its as if he has a program on his computer that says ”If someone uses this word or phrase, cut and paste this claptrap”.

lol. I get the feeling right wingers have nothing but ignorance and fallacy instead of any valid arguments for rebuttal.

I simply can't take right wingers morally serious with a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge. Job 34:30 applies.

A bot is more flexible than your posts. Every single one, every single time, utterly predictable and utterly wrong.

Says the guy who only has false witness bearing fallacy not the moral of true witness bearing.

That was a very predictable reply. You are very much Monty Python's black knight.

 

[danielpalos]

Not just me. I have yet to see anyone give you credit for economic understanding.

Only right wingers say that. We know y'all are just plain full of fallacy.

Okay, then cite some leftwingers on this board that give you credit for economic understanding.

All of them who understand economics. Everybody knows right wingers only have ignorance, and bigotry induced lies.

 

[danielpalos]

You're describing welfare, but giving it a different name so you can claim it will work differently. It won't. I've spanked you enough on this that you should know by now. Sad that you don't.

You only appeal to emotion regarding welfare not reason regarding solving simple poverty to promote the general welfare.

Use correct terminology and maybe people will take you seriously.

lol. Stop appealing to ignorance and wanting to be taken seriously. Nobody who knows anything about economics take right wingers seriously about economics.

Dude, you make up words that don't exist, then pretend they're significant. You say words mean things that they don't. That's not taken seriously.

Not my fault you are simply ignorant but want to be taken seriously.

 

[danielpalos]

Not if there aren't any "minimum wage" jobs available any longer.

You would need to appeal to ignorance of economics. A minimum wage will always be the Minimum wage even if it is one hundred dollars an hour.

 

[Blues Man]

Because one job working with machines can replace hundreds or thousands of manual labor job. There will be fewer jobs in total and a lot more on welfare. Stop calling it UC, because it's something completely different, as you know by now.

We don't need low wage service jobs and might as well automate them. Capitalism is about boom and bust; your job loss red herring is just that under free market Capitalism.

people won't hire unskilled labor for 15 dollars an hour

If they were paying a reasonable wage, $15 an hour would not be that much

Reasonable is a subjective term

I think it's perfectly reasonable to pay someone with ZERO skills way less than 15 an hour

 

[danielpalos]

When did their economics educations fail to teach them that wages for ANY labor should be commensurate with labor's PRODUCTION? If you PRODUCE $15/hour, you should be paid close to that amount, but if your labor only produces $3/hour, what idiot would even consider paying you $15?

You seem to believe the private sector is a price maker instead of simply a price taker when it comes to Government regulation. Government moving the goalposts requires re-optimization by the private sector.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You're describing welfare, but giving it a different name so you can claim it will work differently. It won't. I've spanked you enough on this that you should know by now. Sad that you don't.

You only appeal to emotion regarding welfare not reason regarding solving simple poverty to promote the general welfare.

Use correct terminology and maybe people will take you seriously.

lol. Stop appealing to ignorance and wanting to be taken seriously. Nobody who knows anything about economics take right wingers seriously about economics.

danny whats your background in economics that one should listen to what you have to say?...

 

[danielpalos]

Anyone else get the feeling every one of Danny Boy’s posts are just a cut and paste from the Communist Manifesto, or some other claptrap by Marx?

Its as if he has a program on his computer that says ”If someone uses this word or phrase, cut and paste this claptrap”.

lol. I get the feeling right wingers have nothing but ignorance and fallacy instead of any valid arguments for rebuttal.

I simply can't take right wingers morally serious with a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge. Job 34:30 applies.

A bot is more flexible than your posts. Every single one, every single time, utterly predictable and utterly wrong.

Says the guy who only has false witness bearing fallacy not the moral of true witness bearing.

That was a very predictable reply. You are very much Monty Python's black knight.

lol. You need to be a better true witness bearer than me. It may require ethics and morals, see the problem for Right Wingers?

 

[danielpalos]

Because one job working with machines can replace hundreds or thousands of manual labor job. There will be fewer jobs in total and a lot more on welfare. Stop calling it UC, because it's something completely different, as you know by now.

We don't need low wage service jobs and might as well automate them. Capitalism is about boom and bust; your job loss red herring is just that under free market Capitalism.

people won't hire unskilled labor for 15 dollars an hour

If they were paying a reasonable wage, $15 an hour would not be that much

Reasonable is a subjective term

I think it's perfectly reasonable to pay someone with ZERO skills way less than 15 an hour

The private sector is legally required to make profit; that requires price taking regarding regulated Labor costs not price making.

 

[hadit]

Why pay an unskilled worker 15 an hour when you can get rid of 4 or 5 of them and automate?

Buisness is already automating at $7.25 an hour

Your threat is shallow. if automation is available, they will use it

And, raising the minimum wage means remaining labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand. The multiplier does the rest. Only the right wing appeals to ignorance of economics but want to be taken as seriously as the "gospel Truth".

Not if there aren't any "minimum wage" jobs available any longer...which is the ultimate result of pricing labor out of the marketplace. The left's ignorance of economics is startling. When did their economics educations fail to teach them that wages for ANY labor should be commensurate with labor's PRODUCTION? If you PRODUCE $15/hour, you should be paid close to that amount, but if your labor only produces $3/hour, what idiot would even consider paying you $15?

And that is why government has to force business to pay more for labor than it's worth. They seem to operate in a bubble where business is a bottomless pit of money, they can arbitrarily raise costs and business will just keep operating the way it has been. They never account for human behavior and the fact that business will lay workers off, cut hours, automate jobs out of existence, and ultimately raise prices to stay profitable. Now if they're willing to let the MW and prices rise slowly enough that the market can absorb it, the impact won't be as dramatic. There will just be fewer jobs for teenagers to break into the job market, but hey, who cares about young, unemployed men hanging around on the streets with nothing productive to do?

 

[danielpalos]

You're describing welfare, but giving it a different name so you can claim it will work differently. It won't. I've spanked you enough on this that you should know by now. Sad that you don't.

You only appeal to emotion regarding welfare not reason regarding solving simple poverty to promote the general welfare.

Use correct terminology and maybe people will take you seriously.

lol. Stop appealing to ignorance and wanting to be taken seriously. Nobody who knows anything about economics take right wingers seriously about economics.

danny whats your background in economics that one should listen to what you have to say?...

Understanding and valid arguments not right wing fantasy, ignorance and fallacy while wanting to be Right simply for being on the right wing.

 

[hadit]

Anyone else get the feeling every one of Danny Boy’s posts are just a cut and paste from the Communist Manifesto, or some other claptrap by Marx?

Its as if he has a program on his computer that says ”If someone uses this word or phrase, cut and paste this claptrap”.

lol. I get the feeling right wingers have nothing but ignorance and fallacy instead of any valid arguments for rebuttal.

I simply can't take right wingers morally serious with a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge. Job 34:30 applies.

A bot is more flexible than your posts. Every single one, every single time, utterly predictable and utterly wrong.

Says the guy who only has false witness bearing fallacy not the moral of true witness bearing.

That was a very predictable reply. You are very much Monty Python's black knight.

lol. You need to be a better true witness bearer than me. It may require ethics and morals, see the problem for Right Wingers?

If you say I'm lying, feel free to directly quote what I said that is a lie. Easily predictable response from you, BTW.

 

[hadit]

Not just me. I have yet to see anyone give you credit for economic understanding.

Only right wingers say that. We know y'all are just plain full of fallacy.

Okay, then cite some leftwingers on this board that give you credit for economic understanding.

All of them who understand economics. Everybody knows right wingers only have ignorance, and bigotry induced lies.

That wasn't the question, was it? Face it, no one gives you credit for economic understanding.

 

[danielpalos]

And that is why government has to force business to pay more for labor than it's worth.

Minimum wage labor is worth what Government says it is; the private sector is merely a price taker.

 

[danielpalos]

If you say I'm lying, feel free to directly quote what I said that is a lie. Easily predictable response from you, BTW.

Ad hominems are usually considered fallacies and could be just plain lies. You need valid arguments not just the immorality of bearing false witness through fallacy of argument ad hominem.

 

[Blues Man]

Why pay an unskilled worker 15 an hour when you can get rid of 4 or 5 of them and automate?

Buisness is already automating at $7.25 an hour

Your threat is shallow. if automation is available, they will use it

Once again I have to give you some facts

2% of all hourly wage workers make the federal minimum wage most states pay more than the federal MW

The people who are really going to get squeezed here are the ones making MW to about 12 dollars an hour and those are the people most easily replaced by technology.

Why pay 5 people to push buttons on a register and put disgusting squashed cheeseburgers into bags when all you need is 2 people on the grill and one or 2 people to stuff the disgusting squashed cheeseburgers into bags because when anyone has to pay a person 15 dollars an hour for a job a blind monkey can do that is exactly what will happen.

It's the cost benefit analysis. The pay scale right now doesn't quite meet the threshold to automate but it will if you insist on paying people with ZERO skills 31200 a year

 

[hadit]

Because one job working with machines can replace hundreds or thousands of manual labor job. There will be fewer jobs in total and a lot more on welfare. Stop calling it UC, because it's something completely different, as you know by now.

We don't need low wage service jobs and might as well automate them. Capitalism is about boom and bust; your job loss red herring is just that under free market Capitalism.

people won't hire unskilled labor for 15 dollars an hour

If they were paying a reasonable wage, $15 an hour would not be that much

Reasonable is a subjective term

I think it's perfectly reasonable to pay someone with ZERO skills way less than 15 an hour

The private sector is legally required to make profit; that requires price taking regarding regulated Labor costs not price making.

That displays a lack of economic understanding. The private sector is not "legally required to make profit". Many businesses operate for a long time without a profit. Eventually, whoever is funding them will cut them off and they will fail, but they're not legally required to be profitable. Please don't try to tell us you have a great understanding of economics if you post things like that.

 

[Blues Man]

except they're still geared to soak the middle class

Indeed. And the trump/GOP tax bill is about to raise taxes every year for the middle class.for a.while, starting in 2021. We shall see which party wants to lower taxes for the middle class.

neither does neither will

oh sure they'll tell you that income taxes might be cut a little but they'll just broaden the tax base like Reagan did and people will really end up paying more

raise the minimum wage to raise tax revenue!

it won't raise any additional revenue.

all it will do is raise the poverty line to 31200 a year

not at all. raising the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour will generate around nine times more in federal income tax revenue than our current minimum wage does now.

Do you care to prove that with some actual data?

I used California for State information.

Income Tax Calculator - USA - Salary After Taxes

neuvoo™ 【 Online Salary and Tax Calculator 】 provides your income after tax if you work in USA. We calculate how much your payroll will be after tax deductions in any region. Find your net pay for any salary. Our data is based on 2020 tax tables from USA

neuvoo.com

you do realize you have to show your work don't you?

This is the real world

Taxes are progressive.

The current minimum wage rate generates around 194 dollars in federal income tax revenue. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates around 1852 dollars in federal income tax revenue; around nine times more in federal income tax revenue.

no it doesn't.

People making Federal MW pay no income tax

People making 15 an hour pay 58 dollars in federal income tax

The tax paid by anyone making 15 or more an hour now does not change so there is no way in hell you get a 900% revenue increase

What information are you using? Show your work. I gave you a website that calculates tax information based on wage rate.

and you didn't show how you got a 900% revenue increase

Income Tax Calculator: 2023-2024 Refund Estimator - NerdWallet

Estimate your federal refund or calculate your potential tax bill. Enter your income, filing status, age, and common deductions and adjustments to learn more.

www.nerdwallet.com

punch in 31200 annual salary claiming 1 dependent and the federal income tax for that person is 58 dollars a year

I used it for 30k with no dependents and got this amount:

Estimated federal taxes $1,914

Claim 1 dependent because you will get a refund if you don't.

You didn't figure that in did you?

I am keeping it simple. I use individual metrics. Means testing is more expensive.

you still have to account for the refund.

a person making 31200 annually ( $15 an hour) has a federal income tax liability of $58 if more is taken out of his paycheck in a year then he gets a refund

Someone making less gets even more refund and costs more in social services.

not really.

Yes, really. The earned income credit and the cost of social services, costs more and generates less of a multiplier than increasing the minimum wage.

the increase of the MW doesn't multiply tax revenue it might make 1 or 2%s of a percent difference so it will be insignificant

Not at all. UC generates a multiplier of two or more; raising the minimum wage must raise it more than that.

UC does not multiply tax revenues by 2 or more

 

[hadit]

If you say I'm lying, feel free to directly quote what I said that is a lie. Easily predictable response from you, BTW.

Ad hominems are usually considered fallacies and could be just plain lies. You need valid arguments not just the immorality of bearing false witness through fallacy of argument ad hominem.

Like I said, if you think I lied about you, quote it and tell me why it's a lie. If you can't, feel free to stop accusing me of lying.

 

[Blues Man]

It's already happening.

Why pay an unskilled worker 15 an hour when you can get rid of 4 or 5 of them and automate?

There's a cost benefit analysis at work here.

When it becomes too expensive to pay your labor force then you find ways to decrease it while maintaining productivity. That's what technology does.

And unemployment is not cost effective at all because you are paying a person NOT to work so there is zero productivity

So what; Capitalists have to re-optimize for any change in equilibrium. We don't need those unskilled, low wage jobs if they can be easily automated.

UC has already been measured with a multiplier of two , so I don't know why you insist on obsolete propaganda from pre-WWII. Only Capital must circulate under capitalism and there is no unemployment only underpayment.

so what happens to all those unskilled laborers?