Trump's Tariffs Slam Maine Lobstermen

[Toro]

No I’m saying trade deficits don’t matter.

What does matter is raising costs for business, which is what trade taxes, ie tariffs do.

Tariffs are taxes, leftist and anti-capitalist.

Ronald Reagan would be embarrassed.

Usually you post pretty insightful things. But this isnt one. Your own article said that China imposed 15% tariffs already. The point here is not to impose tarriffs but to fight back. Do you believe that over in China land somebody is saying "hey dont impose tarriffs on lobsters that is bad for trade"?
In Trumps view we can
(1)remain on the receiving end of punitive tariffs or
(2)fight back and make them come to the table

Nobody can do without the US.

Canada has negotiated tariffs on lobster lower. The US pulled out of similar negotiations.

The average Chinese tariff is 6%. It was about 40% 20 years ago. The average US tariff is 5%, about the same as it was 20 years ago. Those trade deals that Trump derides are what caused Chinese tariffs to fall.

That doesn’t mean the US doesn’t have legitimate claims against China. We do. But they are regarding stealing our technology and inward investment, none of which much affects Trump’s base. They have to do with big business and Silicon Valley. And they have absolutely nothing to do with getting into trade wars with our partners and allies.

 

[JGalt]

There will be more of these stories coming.

Donald Trump has upended global trade relationships, promising that temporary disruption will end in better terms for American businesses. Tell that to the Maine lobster industry that his policies are putting at a major disadvantage in Europe and China.

These should be halcyon days in lobstertown. Maine harvests more lobster than any other U.S. state or Canadian province. Last year it landed nearly 111 million pounds—its fourth-largest annual haul—which it sold for $450 million. The lobster industry accounts for 2% of Maine’s economy. ...

In 2017 the U.S. exported more than $137 million in lobsters to China, up from $52 million in 2015.

Yet Mr. Trump’s unilateral tariffs are about to erode the price advantage of American lobsters. After the U.S. announced on June 15 plans to impose a 25% tariff on $50 billion in Chinese goods, Beijing retaliated with a new 25% tariff on American seafood, farm products and autos, effective July 6. That’s on top of the 10% to 15% tariffs China already imposes on U.S. and Canadian lobster. ...

“What happens if we lose 30%, 40%, even 50% of our market share?” he says. “We have to keep paying the bank for that borrowed money. If we do have an impact in sales, it’s going to have a direct impact on jobs. That’s the only way we reduce our expenses. I hope that doesn’t happen. And to date we haven’t laid anyone off.” Mr. Adams adds that if the trade tensions don’t abate, he would consider moving some of his operations to Canada.​

Trump Boils Maine Lobstermen

Trade wars hurt more people than they help. That's why economists almost unilaterally believe in free trade and oppose trade wars and tariffs, i.e. trade taxes.

The article came from the WSJ, which requires that I register for. However, I did find another copy of the article.

This Tom Adams of the Main Coast Company whom the article quotes: Is that the same Tom Adams who was indicted on charges alleging aggravated assault with a weapon; operating under the influence of alcohol resulting in serious injury; OUI, one prior offense, refusal to take breathalyzer; driving to endanger, causing serious injury and reckless conduct with a weapon?

Top lobster wholesaler indicted on drunken driving charges

Anyone want to check and see how much he donated to Hillary's campaign?

 

[Toro]

1. Canada runs a trade deficit with the US
2. The US runs a capital surplus with almost every nation on earth because we run trade deficits with most countries. That means foreigners invest more and thus create more jobs here than we do abroad because of the trade deficits.
3. It doesn’t matter much anyways, as economists know.

If it does not matter, than why are our trade partners pushing back so much?


If it does not matter, than why did you post this story as an attack on Trump?

The trade deficits don’t matter. But raising costs and making business less efficient do matter.
.....

That's a mighty fine line you are drawing there....


Why do you not care about the jobs that are or might be lost?

That’s a communist argument. Communists made the same argument.

Capitalism is the process of creative destruction. All of capitalism is trying to meet consumer demand by making things cheaper, either with machines or cheaper labor. That means jobs in older industries go away and jobs in newer jobs are created. That’s capitalism. Something like a quarter of all jobs in today’s economy didn’t even exist as classifications in the BLS 50 years ago.

It is not a communist argument.


The destruction we have had is not creative, nor is it fairly spread.


Are you going to respond seriously, or just spout buzz words?

You are making the same arguments the Luddites made 250 years ago. You don’t like the change, so you spout terms like “fairness” that leftists use. You want the government to interfere and tax the economy to engineer an economic outcome that is acceptable to you. How is that not leftist? Of course, it is. You just can’t square it in your mind because you don’t think of yourself as leftist. So you convince yourself that higher taxes and more government is conservative, which is utter nonsense to anyone who can see outside of a political prism.

In 1900, nearly half the jobs in this country were in agriculture. Today it’s 3%. Yet we produce 50x more agricultural products than we did in 1900. That’s what will happen to manufacturing.

Economic growth per capital comes from technological advancement, nothing more. Technological advancement means displacing old Industies with new ones. Protecting jobs in old industries kills wealth everywhere.

 

[Toro]

There will be more of these stories coming.

Donald Trump has upended global trade relationships, promising that temporary disruption will end in better terms for American businesses. Tell that to the Maine lobster industry that his policies are putting at a major disadvantage in Europe and China.

These should be halcyon days in lobstertown. Maine harvests more lobster than any other U.S. state or Canadian province. Last year it landed nearly 111 million pounds—its fourth-largest annual haul—which it sold for $450 million. The lobster industry accounts for 2% of Maine’s economy. ...

In 2017 the U.S. exported more than $137 million in lobsters to China, up from $52 million in 2015.

Yet Mr. Trump’s unilateral tariffs are about to erode the price advantage of American lobsters. After the U.S. announced on June 15 plans to impose a 25% tariff on $50 billion in Chinese goods, Beijing retaliated with a new 25% tariff on American seafood, farm products and autos, effective July 6. That’s on top of the 10% to 15% tariffs China already imposes on U.S. and Canadian lobster. ...

“What happens if we lose 30%, 40%, even 50% of our market share?” he says. “We have to keep paying the bank for that borrowed money. If we do have an impact in sales, it’s going to have a direct impact on jobs. That’s the only way we reduce our expenses. I hope that doesn’t happen. And to date we haven’t laid anyone off.” Mr. Adams adds that if the trade tensions don’t abate, he would consider moving some of his operations to Canada.​

Trump Boils Maine Lobstermen

Trade wars hurt more people than they help. That's why economists almost unilaterally believe in free trade and oppose trade wars and tariffs, i.e. trade taxes.

The article came from the WSJ, which requires that I register for. However, I did find another copy of the article.

This Tom Adams of the Main Coast Company whom the article quotes: Is that the same Tom Adams who was indicted on charges alleging aggravated assault with a weapon; operating under the influence of alcohol resulting in serious injury; OUI, one prior offense, refusal to take breathalyzer; driving to endanger, causing serious injury and reckless conduct with a weapon?

Top lobster wholesaler indicted on drunken driving charges

Anyone want to check and see how much he donated to Hillary's campaign?

Thanks for that ad hominem and irrelevant nonsequiter.

 

[whitehall]

Does anyone think China is going to stop importing freaking lobsters? This tariff hysteria is getting out of hand. Personally I want to turn the pitiful creatures loose when I see them in the tank with rubber bands around their claws but that's just me.

 

[DOTR]

No I’m saying trade deficits don’t matter.

What does matter is raising costs for business, which is what trade taxes, ie tariffs do.

Tariffs are taxes, leftist and anti-capitalist.

Ronald Reagan would be embarrassed.

Usually you post pretty insightful things. But this isnt one. Your own article said that China imposed 15% tariffs already. The point here is not to impose tarriffs but to fight back. Do you believe that over in China land somebody is saying "hey dont impose tarriffs on lobsters that is bad for trade"?
In Trumps view we can
(1)remain on the receiving end of punitive tariffs or
(2)fight back and make them come to the table

Nobody can do without the US.

Canada has negotiated tariffs on lobster lower. The US pulled out of similar negotiations.

The average Chinese tariff is 6%. It was about 40% 20 years ago. The average US tariff is 5%, about the same as it was 20 years ago. Those trade deals that Trump derides are what caused Chinese tariffs to fall.

That doesn’t mean the US doesn’t have legitimate claims against China. We do. But they are regarding stealing our technology and inward investment, none of which much affects Trump’s base. They have to do with big business and Silicon Valley. And they have absolutely nothing to do with getting into trade wars with our partners and allies.

Trust the President.

 

[BluesLegend]

They'll cave, a better deal will be worked out, sooner or later. Yes, there's going to be some shakeups.

Thank you, some America hating leftists don't understand what a negotiation is.

 

[iceberg]

There will be more of these stories coming.

Mr. Adams adds that if the trade tensions don’t abate, he would consider moving some of his operations to Canada.​

Then maybe Mr Adams should move his entire operation, including his Citizenship to Canada.

And employs Canadians instead of Americans.

you racist...

 

[BluesLegend]

Does anyone think China is going to stop importing freaking lobsters? This tariff hysteria is getting out of hand. Personally I want to turn the pitiful creatures loose when I see them in the tank with rubber bands around their claws but that's just me.

Hey this is more lobster for ME!!! As for the left's faux rage they spend most of their time trying to shut down our fisheries.

 

[DOTR]

That doesn’t mean the US doesn’t have legitimate claims against China. We do. But they are regarding stealing our technology and inward investment, none of which much affects Trump’s base. They have to do with big business and Silicon Valley. And they have absolutely nothing to do with getting into trade wars with our partners and allies.

China's currency manipulation has reached almost terrorist levels. I am not sure you can use tariffs to measure the trade advantages.
I am innately against restrictions on trade. I would be upset if we lived in a world of frictionless trade and Trump started throwing tariffs everywhere. But I dont think thats the case. Trump has an ulterior goal here.
See this next thread of mine for a similar example.

 

[Toro]

No I’m saying trade deficits don’t matter.

What does matter is raising costs for business, which is what trade taxes, ie tariffs do.

Tariffs are taxes, leftist and anti-capitalist.

Ronald Reagan would be embarrassed.

Usually you post pretty insightful things. But this isnt one. Your own article said that China imposed 15% tariffs already. The point here is not to impose tarriffs but to fight back. Do you believe that over in China land somebody is saying "hey dont impose tarriffs on lobsters that is bad for trade"?
In Trumps view we can
(1)remain on the receiving end of punitive tariffs or
(2)fight back and make them come to the table

Nobody can do without the US.

Canada has negotiated tariffs on lobster lower. The US pulled out of similar negotiations.

The average Chinese tariff is 6%. It was about 40% 20 years ago. The average US tariff is 5%, about the same as it was 20 years ago. Those trade deals that Trump derides are what caused Chinese tariffs to fall.

That doesn’t mean the US doesn’t have legitimate claims against China. We do. But they are regarding stealing our technology and inward investment, none of which much affects Trump’s base. They have to do with big business and Silicon Valley. And they have absolutely nothing to do with getting into trade wars with our partners and allies.

Trust the President.

Just like you trusted President Obama, I’m sure.

 

[DOTR]

Does anyone think China is going to stop importing freaking lobsters? This tariff hysteria is getting out of hand. Personally I want to turn the pitiful creatures loose when I see them in the tank with rubber bands around their claws but that's just me.

Hey this is more lobster for ME!!! As for the left's faux rage they spend most of their time trying to shut down our fisheries.

The left (not specifically Toro) hates fisheries, mining, logging, farming...any form of using the bounty of nature God created for us which sustain life. They hate business and profit as well.
But these things they will swallow for a while to attack Trump. It has truly become monomaniacal. If it is good or bad for America never enters the equation. "Does it hurt Trump and will it separate him from his voters" is the only question they ask.
So just be aware.

 

[Toro]

That doesn’t mean the US doesn’t have legitimate claims against China. We do. But they are regarding stealing our technology and inward investment, none of which much affects Trump’s base. They have to do with big business and Silicon Valley. And they have absolutely nothing to do with getting into trade wars with our partners and allies.

China's currency manipulation has reached almost terrorist levels. I am not sure you can use tariffs to measure the trade advantages.
I am innately against restrictions on trade. I would be upset if we lived in a world of frictionless trade and Trump started throwing tariffs everywhere. But I dont think thats the case. Trump has an ulterior goal here.
See this next thread of mine for a similar example.

China isn’t manipulating their currency. That was a legitimate argument 15 years ago but it isn’t today. The yuan should probably be lower than it is, given America’s surging economy and China’s problems.

 

[DOTR]

That doesn’t mean the US doesn’t have legitimate claims against China. We do. But they are regarding stealing our technology and inward investment, none of which much affects Trump’s base. They have to do with big business and Silicon Valley. And they have absolutely nothing to do with getting into trade wars with our partners and allies.

China's currency manipulation has reached almost terrorist levels. I am not sure you can use tariffs to measure the trade advantages.
I am innately against restrictions on trade. I would be upset if we lived in a world of frictionless trade and Trump started throwing tariffs everywhere. But I dont think thats the case. Trump has an ulterior goal here.
See this next thread of mine for a similar example.

China isn’t manipulating their currency. That was a legitimate argument 15 years ago but it isn’t today. The yuan should probably be lower than it is, given America’s surging economy and China’s problems.

They have a currency band no?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

All they have to do is sell their lobster to a Canadian company who will export the lobster to China. Do the Chinese have tariffs on Canada also?

Or invest in Canada and fire Americans, like the Maine businessman is considering.

Do you own or map or can you operate Google?

Maine is located next-fucking door to Canada, dumbass!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Every action by our trade "partners" to protect their trade surpluses,


validates Trump's policy.

1. Canada runs a trade deficit with the US
2. The US runs a capital surplus with almost every nation on earth because we run trade deficits with most countries. That means foreigners invest more and thus create more jobs here than we do abroad because of the trade deficits.
3. It doesn’t matter much anyways, as economists know.

If it does not matter, than why are our trade partners pushing back so much?


If it does not matter, than why did you post this story as an attack on Trump?

The trade deficits don’t matter. But raising costs and making business less efficient do matter.
.....

That's a mighty fine line you are drawing there....


Why do you not care about the jobs that are or might be lost?

That’s a communist argument. Communists made the same argument.

Capitalism is the process of creative destruction. All of capitalism is trying to meet consumer demand by making things cheaper, either with machines or cheaper labor. That means jobs in older industries go away and jobs in newer jobs are created. That’s capitalism. Something like a quarter of all jobs in today’s economy didn’t even exist as classifications in the BLS 50 years ago.

Thank you Mr. Moto.

The rest of us are not dumbasses like you apparently are!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

All they have to do is sell their lobster to a Canadian company who will export the lobster to China. Do the Chinese have tariffs on Canada also?

Or invest in Canada and fire Americans, like the Maine businessman is considering.

Your position is that that type of shit doesn't matter.



Why are you acting like it does matter?

No I’m saying trade deficits don’t matter.

What does matter is raising costs for business, which is what trade taxes, ie tariffs do.

Tariffs are taxes, leftist and anti-capitalist.

Ronald Reagan would be embarrassed.

Taxes are not lefty and anti-capitalist.


Please stop just throwing out buzzwords.


It is an insult to my intelligence to think that I would be so easily fooled.



Why don't you care about the lost jobs?

Yes, they are. It’s just politically convenient for you to believe otherwise because of your cognitive and ideological biases.

If a President said “I’m going to raise your taxes and make it harder for business,” that’s a leftist President. Well, that’s what tariffs do.

OK, dumbass, what do you think will happen when someone from China goes out and orders a Maine lobster for dinner? First, they won't have any from Maine according to you. Second, do you think the price of any lobster dinner will be the same?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Does anyone think China is going to stop importing freaking lobsters? This tariff hysteria is getting out of hand. Personally I want to turn the pitiful creatures loose when I see them in the tank with rubber bands around their claws but that's just me.

Giant cockroaches of the sea is what I see.

 

[Correll]

Why do you not care about the jobs that are or might be lost?

Or gained

wasn't THAT the point of Trumps tariff tirade?

But we keep reading , the lobster industry, the nail industry , Harley davidson, and now GM....

No good tariff goes unpunished, eh?

~S~

Every action our trade "partners" take to hold on to their trade surpluses, validates Trump's policy.

 

[Correll]

All they have to do is sell their lobster to a Canadian company who will export the lobster to China. Do the Chinese have tariffs on Canada also?

Or invest in Canada and fire Americans, like the Maine businessman is considering.

Your position is that that type of shit doesn't matter.



Why are you acting like it does matter?

No I’m saying trade deficits don’t matter.

What does matter is raising costs for business, which is what trade taxes, ie tariffs do.

Tariffs are taxes, leftist and anti-capitalist.

Ronald Reagan would be embarrassed.

Taxes are not lefty and anti-capitalist.


Please stop just throwing out buzzwords.


It is an insult to my intelligence to think that I would be so easily fooled.



Why don't you care about the lost jobs?

Yes, they are. It’s just politically convenient for you to believe otherwise because of your cognitive and ideological biases.

If a President said “I’m going to raise your taxes and make it harder for business,” that’s a leftist President. Well, that’s what tariffs do.

No, they are not.


All you are doing is showing that every time you have ever talked to a conservative about taxes, that you were not really listening.




The purpose of Trade Policy is to benefit the interests of the citizens of the nation.


Allowing our trade partners to fuck US, as we have been doing, is not a good policy.