Trump's trade war with China

[Correll]

So, can I use that argument to dismiss all concerns of yours?


(and seriously dude. That you did not get that point, is pretty lame. )

I use the appropriate data for the discussion. You use feelings and anecdotes.

See, what you did there, was just cut the part of the posts that showed how silly your position is.


Because, just saying, "well the economy is growing and unemployment is low" is not an answer to everything.

 

[Correll]

1. You trust that the Chinese market is open to our exports?

2. Intellectual property theft alone, is a major issue, that the American "Sellers" are not happy about. For one limited example.

3. Yes. Like Xi, I want my nation to be "Sending out more resources than receiving". Me and him, we both agree that is the better place to be in.

4. Japan has many issues. Trade balance is not one of them.

1. I don't know that I care. If not they are only hurting themselves. Currently we get all their resources for very cheap and they get to keep the pollution.
2. Yes that is an issue. But that isn't going to make our workers more wealthy. We already have lots of wealth. If Microsoft for example starts getting paid for windows that is going to executives and investors, not workers. This will do nothing to help our wages.
3. That makes no sense. Japan did that for many years, now how are they doing? We are much better off having real resources.
4. Well their big trade surplus certainly was not good for them.

1. Milton Friedman, said the way it was supposed to work, was that we give them dollars for those resources, and then they buy our stuff, making jobs here. I have lived in the Rust Best, my entire life. It does not feel like they are hurting themselves.


2. You said the sellers were happy. I pointed out one major example of that not being true. You changing the subject to workers wages does not change that. Not all the sellers are happy.

3. Japan did very well for itself for a very long time. That the good times, did not last for ever, does not change the massive increase in national wealth that occurred during that time. Even today, their per capita wealth is climbing (last I heard)

1. We have plenty of jobs here. Unemployment is really low.
2. So then you don't care about wages? We wouldn't be buying so much from China if most buyers weren't happy. Nobody is forced to buy from them.
3. Very long time? I would argue it was quite a short time relative to the US. They did well briefly, while we continue to do well.

1. You brought up Milton. I made a point about what he claimed would happen, and is not happening. Would you like to address it, or do you want to concede the point, that "Free Trade" and giving them our little pieces of paper did not work out as Milton said it would?


2. This is a complex issue. YOu brought up a point, and I addressed the point. You are trying to change the subject to avoid defending your point. Because you know that your point, ie that the "no one is forceing the buyers and sellers, who are happy" is false.


3. They went from being bombed out ruins after WWII, to a first world country, in a single generation. That is blindingly fast on the scale of nations rising and falling. They are still a first world nation, and still benefiting from good trade policy, 50 years after that. That is a long time for economic good times on the scale of individual citizens lives.

Their growth was fueled by strong trade surpluses, and is still maintained by strong surpluses. They have other problems. Your bringing them up, would be relevant, if I was claiming that trade balance was the only important aspect of economics. Which I am not, so, unless you can show some connection between their problems and their trade balance, stop wasting time.

1. Milton's claim required everything else to remain constant. He could not have predicted the decline in Unions and government corruption. Unions increase wages, we now have a workforce with much fewer unions. Many of our current jobs require more skills than manufacturing, but are paid less.
2. Given the amount of trade, the vast majority are very happy. Even the complainers are still trading because their complaints aren't that big. They would rather keep making more money.
3. Yes they rose quickly and collapsed quickly. Clearly a trade surplus did them no favors.

1. a. Sounds like a major flaw. b. and despite that change in union participation rate, trade balance trends did not reverse. So it is not that. c. require more skills but pay less? that does not sound like progress to me. that sounds like a failure.


2. Your claim is unsupported. you ignore the possibility that people are making choices, while not being happy with the available choices. for one reason that you logic is completely flawed. also, the choices might benefit them, but be harmful to society.

3. Thank you for admitting that japan rose quickly. they did not collapse. they have stagnated because of problems not related to trade. their rise fueled by trade surpluses does support my argument. their stagnation caused by other issues, does not support yours, nor undermine mine.

 

[Correll]

China has a trade policy designed to grow jobs and wealth inside their country. I respect that. That is their government, representing the interests of their people. Your talk of "blame" is irrelevant.


It is on US that we go along with them benefiting at our expense.


I want to change that. TO at least, a more equal and mutually beneficial trade. Or shut it down. Either way.

Jobs in China don't hurt me or you. ...?

If they exist at the expense of jobs here, then they do.

How is it at our expense? ....

Please stop peppering your posts with partisan filler. It is a dishonest tactic and threatens to bury your actual answer(s) in garbage.



To your point, "How is it at our expense?"


1. One possible example. That I have read of occurring. They build a plant, and produce a widget that they do not have the patent for. THey gain market share, because of lower prices, because of lower wages and they did not put out the money to research and design the product, so less costs.

Those jobs should be here. They are "at our expense".


That is one limited and extra clear example. Don't bother telling me that "we have plenty of jobs" THAT IS NOT THE POINT AND YOU KNOW IT.


2. Another point. Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. Milton said that if we gave them our little pieces of paper, that they would use them to buy our products. That is not happening nearly as much as we are buying theirs. Thus, on the highest macro economic level, they are getting more jobs out of it than we are. We don't have to do that, if we don't want to.


And I don't want to.

1. So did we issue a complaint to the WTO? Let me know if you have a specific example we can look at.
2. Well they invested a lot in our country before the trade war.
Chinese investment in the US plummeted 88% since Trump took office

1. So, that the case can take years to argue and then be appealed or ignored, all the while American workers are still not working AND if they ever win, the money goes to the company not the workers AND, meanwhile all the other examples that were not caught continue to be exploited?

No. They are not engaging in mutually beneficial trade. The point is not to engage in process and feel like we are doing something.

I want to see that trade surplus/deficit start shrinking fast, down to effectively nil, AT LEAST.


2. He was talking about products not investment. Giving them the little pieces of paper did not work out the way it was supposed to. Those jobs were supposed to come back, in one form or another.

If a policy does not work, it is a bad policy and should be changed.

 

[Correll]

We have generations of wage stagnation, relative to our productivity growth and previous historical trends.


Trade policy is at least part of the reason(s) for that.

Yes we do, but wealth has been growing. Were does all that wealth go?

To the stockholders and employers.


Time for the workers to get some. I would say, at least for the next 50 years, to be fair.

Correct. So we have plenty of wealth, its just going to the wrong people. That is not at all a trade problem.

It is flowing the way it is, because of the trade policy, as your post with Milton discussed.


It is going to one group of people more than it has been to others, for quite some time.


At the very least, is it the turn of the others, for at least the next 60 years, to be fair.

You can't tie our wages to trade policy. China isn't telling our companies to pay little. That is an internal issue.

So, companies that lost all their market share because of our trade policy, are supposed to somehow be required to pay their workers more, instead of shutting down?


Your pretense that you can't see the connection between trade policy and wages is not credible.


Are you here for serious discussion, or just to be a troll boy like so many others?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

.

2. A fair trade relationship, is mutually beneficial. If the money is flowing more in one way, than in the other, if one side is experiencing massive growth, while the other is being hollowed out, with massive social costs, that is a clear cut case of "not fair". There, I have explained it AGAIN.

Money flows one way and good flow back the other way. Hell, the Chinese could say things are not fair as they give us their goods and get nothing but money in exchange.

Do you have a job? if you do there is a one way flow of money, from your employer to you, is this unfair to your employer?

When you go to the grocery store there is a one way exchange of money, you give them money and all they give you is stuff, just like what happens between the American consumers and China. Is it unfair that your grocery store has a one way flow of money to them?

AND also, something none of YOU have been able to explain, if the trade deficit is not bad, and the trade surplus is not good (for them), then why are they (and you) so opposed to changing it? cnm has admitted that his reason is that he hates the Americans that would benefit from doing so, he wants to see China benefit while working class whites get fucked.
.

We are not in the same place in our history, we are far more advanced than they are, thus they are the manual labor for our society. There is a reason why our Per Capita GDP is 3.5 times higher than China, yet you want to make us like China again...why is that?

There is a reason that the US has the 2nd highest Pre Capita wealth in the world and China does not even make the top 35. Yet you want to make us more like China...why is that?

 

[pknopp]

We are never going to have equal trade with China. In the end we have very little they want. Most of it they can indeed get it elsewhere, they buy it off us to at least have some trade going that way. This idea that they can't get soybeans anywhere else is just silly.

If it hadn't been for American companies moving there, there wouldn't be much monetarily we would have wanted from them either. Now with Amazon flooding the markets with cheap Chinese stuff that would have increased some BUT in the end this is why very little is going to change.

The problem is corporation driven and in the end Trump isn't going to allow the markets to suffer.

 

[Correll]

American corporations have adjusted to the reality of the US being the world's bitch on trade.


If Trump manages to fix that, it will upset their current business models.


Seems worth it, and I speak as someone heavily invested in stocks.

What is the fix? We start paying more? That's a win?

The fix is jobs and trade balance moving back to US.


Even if it means paying more.


And yes, that would be a win. Obviously.

You are an anti American.


1. Are you speaking for the rest of poor Americans?

2. You have not solved the trade wars yet. We are already paying high prices.

3. Most or all businesses from different categories trashing inept Trump Trade wars. Are you telling me they are wrong?

4. There will be a loss of jobs and businesses.

5. Negotiations started last year and theres no end insight. No way for that moron to get out.

6. Tariffs are passed on to American consumers. American consumers loss.

7. Name me one business ( except steel industry) or any company that supports Trump foolish trade wars?

IDIOT



More Than 200 Shoe Companies Urge Trump To Cancel New China Tariffs

More Than 200 Shoe Companies Urge Trump To Cancel New China Tariffs

The trade war is resulting in "hidden taxes paid by American individuals and families," the footwear brands wrote.
By Lydia O'Connor
08/28/2019 07:00 PM E

1. No.

2. Totally worth it. If we get the jobs back and keep them forever.

3.Yes. THey have adjusted to the current model, and don't want disruption. THeir goal is short term profits, mine is long term rise in wages and standard of living.

4. Most likely. Until businesses adjust. Then it will improve. If we keep to it.

5. Agreed. Their is really nothing to negotiate. The Chinese have no incentive to give up hundreds of billions of dollars. We should just slap on strong tariffs and keep them there, forever.

6. I am willing to pay more, if it means more and better jobs for Americans. Everyone that voted for Trump, voted for that.

7. Fuck them all. They don't get what they want this time.

1. Your answer is No. So why are you promoting higher prices at the counter? Since when that is acceptable?

2. Jobs are not coming back. You can ask Donnie and Ivanka if they can make their products here in US. The best scenario is they go to other neighboring countries.
Moving business and operations back to US is big business mistakes because of high labor costs. That is not going to happen.

3 and 4. What do you mean short term? These companies are in business for decades making money. Donnie is disrupting all the progress and the economy.
So you are willing to sacrifice people lives and businesses? It will take several years or never to recover from bankruptcy.
It will be like you making money now. Then Donnie comes in and fuck you up. Just like what he did with the US farmers. A lot of those people will never recover.

5. So if Donnie cannot make a deal you will slap them with more tariffs? If that is so easy do you think Donnie could have come out swinging by now?
Americans are paying for the higher tariffs right now. It’s a price we don’t need.
Maybe you don’t even understand the ripple effect to ordinary American lives of this dumb trade wars.

6. You do NOT represent poor Americans. You do NOT represent businesses here in America for you to say that.
Of the 220 millions registered voters only 63+ millions voted for Trump. With all the hatred and disgusting tweets and lies. Do you honestly believe that the 63+ grew or decrease?
I can honestly tells you that lot of his supporters are sick of his ineptness.

7. Life doesn’t work that way. This also proved that Donnie has nothing to do with the current booming economy.
It’s just hard how you can say something like that to your own fellow Americans.
Yes you are anti Americans.

1. Since the jobs did not come back already, the way they were supposed to.

2. Manufacturing has already seen improvements. And I heard in the immediate aftermath of his election, that local manufactures were FLOODED with inquires from foreign businesses looking to move production here to avoid tariffs. It is not happen, because he was not as aggressive as they feared. But it could.


3. Your assumption of a worst case scenario, ie a rapid abrupt change with no transition period, is certainly possible, and even then would be worth the long term good.


5. Not sure of the political difficulties. Hell, I don't know if it is doable at all. But my point stands. Yes, I am in favor of tariffs.

6. Your numbers games are noted and dismissed. My point was that there is a large base of support for this policy in America,and if you want to play numbers games, consider how many Americans support American jobs, but dont' support Trump because of the leftard lies you mentioned.


7. Those of you on your side of this debate, have and still are basically said, "fuck them" to those who have lost out to this policy. CNM, has admitted that the reason he supports this policy is that he hates the Americans who are the ones that lost. He sides with China because he likes them better than white working class Americans.

 

[Correll]

Tariffs go to the country that is importing, not to the exporter.


If Xi wants to put taxes on his nation's exports, I fully support him, and I would bet money that Trump would too.

Your answer makes no sense, what so ever.

Aren't you trying to get them to lower tariffs on our exports to them? What is it you think you are tryin to do?

I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck how it happens, and truthfully, I would not believe any promises they make.

Ain’t that easy bro. Despite with the threat to our trade partners..... Donnie could have solve it by now..

So, which is it? NOt easy, or easy? You are all over the place.


I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade.


That is a completely reasonable position,

Like golfing gator mentioned.

There are no exact fair trade. Someone has to be on top. Right now Americans are paying the high cost.

Thank you for admitting we are paying right now. So many are dishonest about that.

Problem with your position, is that we have been paying the high cost, for a long time, and it seems to just always be on US now, and with no end in sight.


That is not mutually beneficial trade. That is not fair. That is not a good trade policy.


Time for radical change, or to just shut it down.

 

[Correll]

So, which is it? NOt easy, or easy? You are all over the place.


I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade.


That is a completely reasonable position,

There is no such thing as "fair trade" because there is no such thing as fair. Fair is always in the eye of the beholder.

You cannot look at our country as a whole and say we have not benefited from the current trade deals. Well you can, but you would be lying.

Fair can be difficult to be objective by, I grant you that.


But setting new records in trade deficits almost every year, is pretty clear cut.



I look a the way wages have stagnated and how that started not long after we choose a "Free Trade" policy, and,


I say that it is time for a change.


The benefits we have received have been outweighed by the costs.

Oh lordy.
If you want to tackle trade deficits. Tell to Americans to stop shopping at Walmart, Costco, Amazon, Macy’s and the rest of major retailers.
We are the world biggest spenders looking for cheaper products to save money.
We are also the biggest wasters and spoiled citizens around the world.

School opens we buy our kids with new backpacks and new shoes. We threw the old one away..Parents from other countries will let them use from past year.

Trade policy is the purview of GOVERNMENTS, not individual shoppers.

 

[Brain357]

Fair can be difficult to be objective by, I grant you that.

It is not difficult, it is impossible. At best fair is like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. I think it is unfair that a football player can make more per TD pass than a nurse makes in a year. But others would tell you it is fair because the player has the more unique skill

But setting new records in trade deficits almost every year, is pretty clear cut.

Yes, it is clear cut. We have more wealth to spend and we are spending it. Nobody has ever been able to explain why trade deficits are so terrible. You have a trade deficit with your grocery store, do you whine about it every day?

I look a the way wages have stagnated and how that started not long after we choose a "Free Trade" policy, and,


I say that it is time for a change.


The benefits we have received have been outweighed by the costs.

When do you view as the start of our "free trade" era?

1. Bull.

2. A fair trade relationship, is mutually beneficial. If the money is flowing more in one way, than in the other, if one side is experiencing massive growth, while the other is being hollowed out, with massive social costs, that is a clear cut case of "not fair". There, I have explained it AGAIN.


AND also, something none of YOU have been able to explain, if the trade deficit is not bad, and the trade surplus is not good (for them), then why are they (and you) so opposed to changing it? cnm has admitted that his reason is that he hates the Americans that would benefit from doing so, he wants to see China benefit while working class whites get fucked.


3. Good question about the "era of free trade". NOt sure. SOmetime in the early 70s seems to be likely. Perhaps earlier and it just took time for the effects to be felt.

I've answered your question several times. China needs the tax dollars. Tariffs are a tax. They tax imports because they need the tax dollars.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, which is it? NOt easy, or easy? You are all over the place.


I want "Fair trade" or mutually beneficial trade.


That is a completely reasonable position,

There is no such thing as "fair trade" because there is no such thing as fair. Fair is always in the eye of the beholder.

You cannot look at our country as a whole and say we have not benefited from the current trade deals. Well you can, but you would be lying.

Fair can be difficult to be objective by, I grant you that.


But setting new records in trade deficits almost every year, is pretty clear cut.



I look a the way wages have stagnated and how that started not long after we choose a "Free Trade" policy, and,


I say that it is time for a change.


The benefits we have received have been outweighed by the costs.

Oh lordy.
If you want to tackle trade deficits. Tell to Americans to stop shopping at Walmart, Costco, Amazon, Macy’s and the rest of major retailers.
We are the world biggest spenders looking for cheaper products to save money.
We are also the biggest wasters and spoiled citizens around the world.

School opens we buy our kids with new backpacks and new shoes. We threw the old one away..Parents from other countries will let them use from past year.

Trade policy is the purview of GOVERNMENTS, not individual shoppers.

But the trade deficit exist due to individual shoppers.

 

[Brain357]

Yes we do, but wealth has been growing. Were does all that wealth go?

To the stockholders and employers.


Time for the workers to get some. I would say, at least for the next 50 years, to be fair.

Correct. So we have plenty of wealth, its just going to the wrong people. That is not at all a trade problem.

It is flowing the way it is, because of the trade policy, as your post with Milton discussed.


It is going to one group of people more than it has been to others, for quite some time.


At the very least, is it the turn of the others, for at least the next 60 years, to be fair.

You can't tie our wages to trade policy. China isn't telling our companies to pay little. That is an internal issue.

So, companies that lost all their market share because of our trade policy, are supposed to somehow be required to pay their workers more, instead of shutting down?


Your pretense that you can't see the connection between trade policy and wages is not credible.


Are you here for serious discussion, or just to be a troll boy like so many others?

Our companies are doing very well. You even said all the dollars are going to executives and investors. There is plenty of wealth in this country. I gave you many internal reasons why it is not going to workers. Many of our companies have near monopolies, wage collusion, non competes, right to work laws, decline in unions... Internally everything has turned on workers. That's is not trades fault.

 

[Brain357]

We are never going to have equal trade with China. In the end we have very little they want. Most of it they can indeed get it elsewhere, they buy it off us to at least have some trade going that way. This idea that they can't get soybeans anywhere else is just silly.

If it hadn't been for American companies moving there, there wouldn't be much monetarily we would have wanted from them either. Now with Amazon flooding the markets with cheap Chinese stuff that would have increased some BUT in the end this is why very little is going to change.

The problem is corporation driven and in the end Trump isn't going to allow the markets to suffer.

And why should we? They keep sending us real resources for next to nothing and we give them paper. Plus they get to keep the pollution.

 

[charwin95]

I have got good news, and I have got bad news. The good news is the Dow is up 373 points. We finally have surpassed where we were in January 2018.

The bad news is, the reason for the leap forward is that Chinese officials agreed to resume talks. Meaning, thanks to Trump, Wall Street is dependent upon what China does.

Thank you, Mr. President.

In fact 2/3 of Americans are saying, Thank you Mr. President for standing up to China.

More than two-thirds of American voters want the U.S. to confront Beijing over its trade policies despite believing that they are suffering more from tariffs than China, a Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll survey released exclusively to The Hill found.

The poll showed 63 percent of registered voters said that tariffs imposed on Chinese products ultimately hurt the U.S. more than China, while 74 percent said that American consumers are shouldering most of the burden of those tariffs.

But 67 percent said that it is necessary to confront China over its trade practices, which President Trump and his allies have deemed unfair to the U.S.

Poll: Voters want US to confront China over trade

Hopefully, the Democrats will continue banging away on this issue right through the election.

I read your link. But I totally disagree.

If you ask ordinary citizens out there. There are millions and millions of Americans that don’t understand this trade wars.
In this site alone. Trumpets don’t understand the negative impact of Trade wars despite with input from anti trade wars. Out there they only listen with Trump bullshit. Nothing else.

Aside from higher prices there will be loss of jobs and businesses.

Just about the entire American businesses disagree with Trump. Are you telling me they are wrong? I have not seen a single company (except steel industry) support Trump trade wars.





The trade war has already cost electronics companies $10 billion and it gets worse on Sept. 1

'Whipsaw' of US-China trade war will force small businesses to close, bike start-up CEO says

Business Groups Warn of Peril as Trump’s Trade War Spirals

You are correct that many people don't understand the trade war between the US and China, clearly you among them, but the poll shows that many people do, and they are willing to go through some slight inconveniences in order to force China to give up defending its domestic industries if it wants to continue to enjoy access to the US.

It’s very funny when Trump followers like you try to make justifications with Trump lies.

Just about ALL American businesses with ALL categories trashing Trump trade wars.

Did you read my links coming from businesses or you just stared at it?

Your message as always is that you don't like Trump and you want to believe everyone else agrees with you, but on this issue you are in the minority:

"More than two-thirds of American voters want the U.S. to confront Beijing over its trade policies despite believing that they are suffering more from tariffs than China, a Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll survey released exclusively to The Hill found.

The poll showed 63 percent of registered voters said that tariffs imposed on Chinese products ultimately hurt the U.S. more than China, while 74 percent said that American consumers are shouldering most of the burden of those tariffs.

But 67 percent said that it is necessary to confront China over its trade practices, which President Trump and his allies have deemed unfair to the U.S."

Poll: Voters want US to confront China over trade

What you refer to as Trump's trade war with China is recognized by over two thirds of the American people as America's trade war with China and while two thirds of American voters stand shoulder to shoulder with the President, Democrats continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with China and Iran against America.

It’s not a matter of I like Trumpy moron or not. You don’t have to agree with me. But you have to look at the impact of this trade wars against my fellow Americans. Sadly.
That is my main point. You and your buddies has only one thing in common is support Trump just because it’s Trump. Nothing more...... Against Americans.

So you are an anti Americans. Your link only interviewed 2,500 people that don’t understand trade wars and does not represent millions of poor Americans.

No I’m not the minority. You can ask hundreds of businesses, major retailers and just about all business categories including farmers ..... Are blasting this stupid trade wars.
You and your buddies probably don’t even understand the ripple effect of this trade wars. Like loss of jobs and closures of businesses.




Trump tariffs are set to cost U.S. households $2,000 in 2020, research group finds

Trump tariffs are set to cost U.S. households $2,000 in 2020, research group finds.

Tariffs are expected to cost American households more than $2,000 per year in 2020, according to a recent report from the National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP).

The Arlington-based nonprofit — which looked at the effect of tariffs on the overall economy and consumers — estimated that by the end of 2019, the trade duties imposed by U.S. President Donald Trump “will have cost the average household $1,315 over a two-year period.”

 

[charwin95]

Because commerce is about trade not "gun boat diplomacy with our exorbitantly expensive superpower".

Fair trade. It’s a two way street.

Fair trade is a myth, because fair does not exist. It is something parents tell their kids to make the feel better, but most adults know that life is never fair.

So then you agree with Trump standing up to China fucking us over at every turn? Millions of jobs lost to China because of shitty trade deals. (Not technology)

Classic Trump text book.

Look at the US booming economy. Does it looks like we’ve been fuck?
Millions jobs lost? Did you ask Donnie and her daughter why they make their products overseas?
Is it China’s fault if Donnie and Ivanka makes his products overseas?

I’m sure you cannot answer my questions. So let me answer it for you.

It’s very simple....... It’s the nature of doing business. You need to do whatever it takes where to make the most money.

There is no place to manufacture anything in the United States because all our jobs have gone overseas to China. We need to ban ALL Chinese made products from our markets. We don’t need China for Jack shit. I hop all Wall Street was investors doing business with our enemies in China go broke and live on the streets with their fucking families.

Maybe you can tell your fake messiah to make his products here in US instead of China..
If Trumpy and Ivanka makes their products in China....... Is that China’s fault?

We don’t need China? Really? Maybe you can tell that to major retailers like Walmart, Costco, Amazon, jcpenny, Macy’s etc etc etc etc to stop selling Chinese products.
Or you can close them down.
Or you can tell Americans to stop buying Chinese products.

Your choice

 

[charwin95]

You are supposed to use our markets as leverage to force them into it. Instead, he tried to use that leverage in mini wars with everyone at once. I cannot fathom how this is so complicated for most here. YOU DO NOT WILLINGLY FIGHT A 2 FRONT WAR. PERIOD. That is the most moronic way to do things possible.

And working so far? In what way is it working at all? We have gained absolutely nothing so far on trade anywhere. NOTHING. If Trump does manage to make real gains here I will absolutely give him credit. The fact that you have to resort to outright bullshit like "it probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians" just highlights the fact that you have nothing to support these actions. Who are my 'favorite' politicians? Who is it that I would have been falling over to support LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE WITH A FAILED TRADE POLICY? Look in a mirror lately?

You’re not at least interested in the fact that they’re meeting next month to discuss this? You think trade deals happen at the snap of a finger? Jesus Christ

So negotiate. Sit down and get it done. Don't put farmers out of business because you can't get it done.

We have the best agriculture in the world. Nobody grows better beef than we do. There’s not a single developed nation out there that wouldn’t miss our food. You don’t win a poker game by asking the players to treat you fairly. You have to be willing to take a risk with the cards you’re holding.

Try to explain that to American farmers that are loosing incomes. Some are un able to pay loans.

Try to tell that to China that are now buying agricultural products in Brazil and other countries instead from us.

Farmers are subsidized and will be taken care of.

Why? They don’t need that before the trade war. Why should I feed them just because of Trumpy.

This is like you are making good money $150k year. Then a moron Trump purposely shot your leg so you cannot go to work. Then pay you $15k just for the heck of it...... Is that acceptable?


Farmers are being subsidized but not 100%. They are getting the money they invested but not the profits. Farmers are loosing money and the market went to Brazil. Sadly.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You’re not at least interested in the fact that they’re meeting next month to discuss this? You think trade deals happen at the snap of a finger? Jesus Christ

So negotiate. Sit down and get it done. Don't put farmers out of business because you can't get it done.

We have the best agriculture in the world. Nobody grows better beef than we do. There’s not a single developed nation out there that wouldn’t miss our food. You don’t win a poker game by asking the players to treat you fairly. You have to be willing to take a risk with the cards you’re holding.

Try to explain that to American farmers that are loosing incomes. Some are un able to pay loans.

Try to tell that to China that are now buying agricultural products in Brazil and other countries instead from us.

Farmers are subsidized and will be taken care of.

Why? They don’t need that before the trade war. Why should I feed them just because of Trumpy.

This is like you are making good money $150k year. Then a moron Trump purposely shot your leg so you cannot go to work. Then pay you $15k just for the heck of it...... Is that acceptable?


Farmers are being subsidized but not 100%. They are getting the money they invested but not the profits. Farmers are loosing money and the market went to Brazil. Sadly.

Actually farmers get about 20 billion a year in subsides even before the trade war, Trump has just had to basically double that amount due to the damage he has done

you are correct about losing our markets, and there is a lot of doubt if they will ever get them back.

 

[charwin95]

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.
Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Who cares about China’s economy? You can flush down to your toilet if you want.

But we care the end results of Trump trade wars against your fellow Americans and businesses. So far right now its catastrophic.



More Dire News For Trump In The Heartland: Past-Due Wisconsin Farmer Loans Hit Record

More Dire News For Trump In The Heartland: Past-Due Wisconsin Farmer Loans Hit Record
The downturn in farm belt fortunes amid Trump's trade war with China isn't good for the president going into 2020.

President Donald Trump’s farm belt popularity likely took another hit Friday with news that Wisconsin farmer loan delinquencies hit an 18-year record high in June.

The past-due loans are a serious sign of the financial struggles taking a toll on farmers amid Trump’s trade war with China that he insisted would be easy to win.

We should go to fucking war with the cocksuckers. USA economy would boom to make war materiel. Then we could deport your anti-American ass to China’s buddy North Korea.

I am protecting the interest of my fellow Americans.
You are fighting against the interest of my fellow Americans.
You are an anti Americans.

Name me any businesses or any economists or anybody( except steel industry) that supports Trump trade wars. You and your buddies are the minorities.

 

[Brain357]

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Who cares about China’s economy? You can flush down to your toilet if you want.

But we care the end results of Trump trade wars against your fellow Americans and businesses. So far right now its catastrophic.



More Dire News For Trump In The Heartland: Past-Due Wisconsin Farmer Loans Hit Record

More Dire News For Trump In The Heartland: Past-Due Wisconsin Farmer Loans Hit Record
The downturn in farm belt fortunes amid Trump's trade war with China isn't good for the president going into 2020.

President Donald Trump’s farm belt popularity likely took another hit Friday with news that Wisconsin farmer loan delinquencies hit an 18-year record high in June.

The past-due loans are a serious sign of the financial struggles taking a toll on farmers amid Trump’s trade war with China that he insisted would be easy to win.

We should go to fucking war with the cocksuckers. USA economy would boom to make war materiel. Then we could deport your anti-American ass to China’s buddy North Korea.

I am protecting the interest of my fellow Americans.
You are fighting against the interest of my fellow Americans.
You are an anti Americans.

Name me any businesses or any economists or anybody( except steel industry) that supports Trump trade wars. You and your buddies are the minorities.

This trade war isn't working well for steel either.
Why U.S. Steel, a showcase for Trump's tariffs, is laying off workers in Michigan
Plunging stock
U.S. Steel's stock price has plummeted more than 70% since March of 2018, when Mr. Trump first announced plans to slap tariffs on steel imports. And despite the Trump administration's efforts, the U.S. steel industry is struggling with a number of issues.

 

[charwin95]

It wouldn’t surprise me if I did know more than some of them.

It doesnt surprise me that you think that.

Please feel free to show me the “savings” you say are coming from the tariffs on chinese goods.
It won’t surprise me when you can’t.

Now i have to explain tarrifs to the guy who thinks knows more about it than Trumps economic advisors?

Please..I do like to know where the savings are.