Trumpsters, please don't read this

[toobfreak]

For the love of all that is fucking holy, please don't ask these people to explain the Meltdown.

Well Mac & Cheese, I've heard you tell us 100 times now how wrong we all are, now I'm waiting for you to splain to us what is RIGHT. Splain the meltdown to us. Splain to us why Trump is to blame for the federal debt! I'm all ears!

 

[Toro]

Democrat debt = bad

Republican debt = good

 

[Faun]

The Conservative Review isn't playing along. Good for them. Anyone who brings up Trump's exploding debt and flagging economy are immediately mocked by his obedient Trumpsters, but fortunately there are still some Conservatives who are not willing to lie and spin for him.

But I know, I know. The Trumpsters don't care.

Trump can’t be both the president of growth and the president of debt

Earlier today, the Bureau of Economic Analysis announced that the economy had grown just 2.1 percent during the second quarter of this year (ending June 30). It also revised Q4 of 2018 down to just 1.1 percent, which now means that growth during the 12 months ending Q4 of 2018 was only 2.5 percent, not 3 percent as previously thought. This means that the U.S. economy has now gone 14 years without a year-over-year growth of 3 percent. It’s been 19 years since we’ve hit 4 percent, which was during 1997-2000.

While the numbers don’t portend a coming recession, it is highly unusual for us to go for 16 consecutive months with unemployment below 4 percent and 43 months below 5 percent, yet never attain 3 or 4 percent annual GDP growth. In fact, that has never happened before. During the late 1990s, the unemployment rate ranged from 5.3 percent to 3.9 percent – not even as good as today’s 3.7 percent – yet GDP growth was over 4 percent. Ditto for the late 1960s, when we saw years of 6 percent growth. During the mid 1980s, we saw this growth even with higher unemployment rates.

The debt is not just a problem for future generations in terms of a fiscal cost that will be borne by taxpayers. The exclusive focus on the future is what has fostered the Louis XV mentality of “after me, the deluge.” Let’s face it, we are a nation that doesn’t care about the future of our children. What is missing from the discussion is that the debt is permanently weighing down economic growth now.

Let’s peek into the numbers behind today’s topline GDP report. GDP comprises personal consumption expenditures, gross private domestic investment, government spending, and net exports. Seventy percent of the equation is consumption, and the robust 4.3 percent growth in consumption this quarter is a big part of what is keeping us even at 2.1 percent growth. This is not artificial and is good news. Consumption is a sign of a healthy job market, with more people earning money, as well as the tax cuts putting more cash in people’s pockets to spend. No matter whether our economy is fully free market or quasi-socialist, whenever there is more money in people’s pockets, these numbers will go up. We are now in a boom period, and the numbers are good.

But what else is propping up the number? Government spending! Gross government spending, which accounts for about 17.5 percent of the GDP pie, spiked 5 percent. Non-defense spending rose by 15.9 percent!
,

I guess I'm missing why you are trying to make this an all-Trump thing. Maybe you're not aware that economies are mainly the domain of Congress? Further, when pointing fingers at the debt, my first thought is the idiot Congress who in 2006 caused the spiraling banking crisis through the Todd-Frank bill, then Obama coming in and rather than letting bad actors on Wall Street fail and reorganize, spent trillions bailing out the big boys too big to fail while letting the little guy twist in the wind.

We didn't get to 21-22 trillion overnight. When Obama took office in 2008, we were only at about 9 trillion. It took Barack to put us at 19 trillion.

Now if you want to see that as a Trump deflection, knock yourself out, but the damage is already done.

It's the Dems' fault.

Got it.

Anyone else?
.

Glad you finally see that. No one was talking about a debt crisis until Obumma ran our debt up more than all previous administrations combined. That doesn't mean the GOP haven't had a hand in it, but the very title of your OP shows you have an agenda rather than seeking actual facts and are now just looking for excuses to justify it.

At least GW had a good excuse, he had a war dumped on his lap with the biggest terrorist attack in history. Most of Obumma's 10 trillion disappeared down the pockets of his crony friends, and to this day, the democrats still try to run the debt out of control by refusing to deal with the immigration crisis, which costs us 10-20 billion a year in direct and indirect costs.

At least Trump is trying to attack the issue, not only is he seeking to remove 3 million off the SNAP program who really don't need it, he just had another major victory in Guatemala.

Trump administration, Guatemala sign pact barring migrants from claiming asylum in U.S.

What are democrats working on? They want to air a Godfather movie clip during the trial of Roger Stone.

Prosecutors ask to air clip from 'The Godfather Part II' during Roger Stone trial

And Uncle Jerry is still working on that greatest of all issues, wanting to impeach Trump out of office for not cooperating in his own railroading on a matter we all now know he was not even guilty of in the first place.

Nadler: We’re Pursuing a De Facto Impeachment Inquiry

Lie #1

"No one was talking about a debt crisis until Obumma ran our debt..."

Not true. Democrats were complaining about the debt and Bush's growing deficits when he took Clinton's $18 billion deficit and turned it into a $1017 billion deficit, adding $4.9 trillion to the debt, an 86% increase. The response from right was .... "Deficits don't matter." -- Well, yes, they do, as they add to the debt.

Lie #2

"Obumma ran our debt up more than all previous administrations combined."

Not True. The debt was $10.6 trillion when Obama became president and it was $19.9 trillion. "More than all previous administrations combined" would have required the debt to reach $21.3 trillion in order for that to be true. In reality, a foreign concept to you rightards, is that the debt increased 88% (not 100% as you foolishly repeated). Not much more than Bush's 86%. Only unlike Obama, Bush wasn't handed the worst economy in our lifetimes, which greatly contributed to the debt.

Lie #3

"At least GW had a good excuse, he had a war dumped on his lap with the biggest terrorist attack in history."

Not true. That was about a $1 trillion hit to our economy, which recovered from that by 2003. The war in Iraq, which was very costly, had nothing to do with 9.11 as Iraq was not involved. And the decision to invade Iraq rests on the shoulders of Bush himself who decided to invade when he didn't really have to. But as we all heard, there just weren't enough good targets in Afghanistan.

Lie #4

"Most of Obumma's 10 trillion..."

Not true. The debt under Obama, even if you want to attribute every penny though we were still operating under the continuing budget resolution Bush signed early on and the economy was in the crapper when Obama took over, is $9.3 trillion, not $10 trillion.

Lie #5

"Most of Obumma's 10 trillion disappeared down the pockets of his crony friends"

Not true. Most of the debt was due to the Great Recession Bush dumped on Obama.

Like I always say ... if conservatives didn't lie, they'd have absolutely nothing to say.

 

[toobfreak]

In FACT, regulation is a CRITICAL PIECE of capitalism.

Limited regulation, like a governor giving slight negative feedback to an engine, is a necessary part to the system. But when you over-regulate something with excessive big government, you actually end up accomplishing the exact opposite of the desired effect.

 

[PredFan]

You claim to be in the middle, but for the last two-three years you have slid further and further left.

Let's start by addressing this lie for what must be the three thousandth time: Line 2 of my sig - 2. >>> For the liars who pretend I claim to be a centrist/moderate/impartial/unbiased/fence-sitter: Come on Jake, man up, just this once.

Maybe I'll need to address that lie ANOTHER three thousand times, huh? Whaddaya think?

Out of context arguments, straw man arguments (like this one), and so much other nonsense.

I'm sure I'm wasting my time with the OP but in case anyone sensible wants to read this:

We Trump supporters know and care about the debt. We Trump supporters know and care about our children and grand children. Knowing and caring is WHY we vote for Trump. Is he perfect? No. Is he even a Conservative? No. Do we wish he was? Well, maybe, at least on fiscal issues. But at this point in time, fiscal issues are second to the crisis facing us RIGHT NOW.

Illegal immigration
Horrible treaties
Excessive idiotic regulation
Liberal Activist Judges
Destruction of our culture
Invasion from within
Loss of rights
Globalism

Things have gotten SO bad that fiscal issues need to be on the back burner. If the above aren't checked or eliminated, it won't matter what fiscal problems we leave for our descendants.

Trump is not perfect, no one says he is, but he's the best we have had and he's the man we need right now.

Precisely how is my posting a piece from Conservative Review an "out of context, straw man argument"? How is the first freakin' post in a thread "out of context"?

This piece is specifically about his handling of the economy and spending. Why are you trying to change the subject?

I know you agree with him on those other issues, and that's fine. This thread is pretty specific, and it's not about them.

But it sure has inspired a ton of anger and deflection, and I didn't write the piece. You guys should spend less time worrying about me and more time exposing yourselves to information outside the Trumpiverse and being intellectually honest.
.

It was a list of the things you are in the habit of doing. Two things: taking things out of context AND (but not necessarily together) strawman arguments. I have to explain that?

Let me also remind you that your OP states that Trump voters don’t care. Maybe that will clear up some of your confusion about my post. Read it again and all your questions quill be answered.

You didn't wrote the post BUT YOU POSTED IT, so you take the heat. That’s how it works. Grow up.

 

[toobfreak]

Lie #1 Democrats were complaining

Democrats did nothing BUT complain, about EVERYTHING. You would think GW personally flew those planes into the Trade Towers himself! Had the Democrats helped instead of complained, we might have won the war in half the time with half the money. They didn't SHUT UP until Black Barack was in. Then they were finally happy.

Lie #2 "Obumma ran our debt up more than all previous administrations combined."
Not True. The debt was $10.6 trillion when Obama became president and it was $19.9 trillion.

So, it was about 10 trillion with Obumma got in and just short of 20 trillion when he left, but he didn't run up more debt (about 10 trillion) than all previous presidents (about 10 trillion).

Boy, Shawn, you sure caught me in another flagrant lie!

 

[MarathonMike]

The Conservative Review isn't playing along. Good for them. Anyone who brings up Trump's exploding debt and flagging economy are immediately mocked by his obedient Trumpsters, but fortunately there are still some Conservatives who are not willing to lie and spin for him.

But I know, I know. The Trumpsters don't care.

Trump can’t be both the president of growth and the president of debt

Earlier today, the Bureau of Economic Analysis announced that the economy had grown just 2.1 percent during the second quarter of this year (ending June 30). It also revised Q4 of 2018 down to just 1.1 percent, which now means that growth during the 12 months ending Q4 of 2018 was only 2.5 percent, not 3 percent as previously thought. This means that the U.S. economy has now gone 14 years without a year-over-year growth of 3 percent. It’s been 19 years since we’ve hit 4 percent, which was during 1997-2000.

While the numbers don’t portend a coming recession, it is highly unusual for us to go for 16 consecutive months with unemployment below 4 percent and 43 months below 5 percent, yet never attain 3 or 4 percent annual GDP growth. In fact, that has never happened before. During the late 1990s, the unemployment rate ranged from 5.3 percent to 3.9 percent – not even as good as today’s 3.7 percent – yet GDP growth was over 4 percent. Ditto for the late 1960s, when we saw years of 6 percent growth. During the mid 1980s, we saw this growth even with higher unemployment rates.

The debt is not just a problem for future generations in terms of a fiscal cost that will be borne by taxpayers. The exclusive focus on the future is what has fostered the Louis XV mentality of “after me, the deluge.” Let’s face it, we are a nation that doesn’t care about the future of our children. What is missing from the discussion is that the debt is permanently weighing down economic growth now.

Let’s peek into the numbers behind today’s topline GDP report. GDP comprises personal consumption expenditures, gross private domestic investment, government spending, and net exports. Seventy percent of the equation is consumption, and the robust 4.3 percent growth in consumption this quarter is a big part of what is keeping us even at 2.1 percent growth. This is not artificial and is good news. Consumption is a sign of a healthy job market, with more people earning money, as well as the tax cuts putting more cash in people’s pockets to spend. No matter whether our economy is fully free market or quasi-socialist, whenever there is more money in people’s pockets, these numbers will go up. We are now in a boom period, and the numbers are good.

But what else is propping up the number? Government spending! Gross government spending, which accounts for about 17.5 percent of the GDP pie, spiked 5 percent. Non-defense spending rose by 15.9 percent!
,

Your thread would have more credibility had you correctly pointed out the debt started to ramp up under W, but then went into hyperdrive under Obama. It is true that debt has continued to rise under Trump, but debt is like a supertanker. You don't just turn on a dime after many years of runaway spending and borrowing.

 

[Darkwind]

Glad you agree that gross government spending and massive debt is a problem for this country. I don't see where the economy is flagging, perhaps you could elaborate on that.

2.1% GDP growth is down. Higher GDP numbers have been revised down. 10 Year Treasury yields have dropped by about 30%. The market is expecting the Fed to drop rates to deal with weakness. I'd say that "a flagging economy" is a fair characterization.

Could we turn back up? Yes, here's hoping. Fed stimulus might help. But Trump is lying about this being the best US economy ever, and the Conservative Review has laid out a very good and detailed case. Trumpsters can call this fake news, they can go after me for posting it, but that's what they do when they don't like reality.
.

So, the prediction was 2.0%. It may be slight, but the number came in higher. Digging into the GDP you see strong consumer data. This is nothing but a bump in the road.

What we do NOT need is Federal Stimulus. We had 8 years of that and the inflation bill is still due on that mismanagement.

I noted you avoided the real question. What, besides defense, will you cut to reduce the obscene amount of spending that is driving deficits and continuing to pile on debt?

 

[Polishprince]

I noted you avoided the real question. What, besides defense, will you cut to reduce the obscene amount of spending that is driving deficits and continuing to pile on debt?

Most of our liberal friends would like raise taxes, believing that this is the way to get prosperity. AOC Plus 3 has suggested a marginal rate of 70% to punish the Trump Base.

 

[Darkwind]

I noted you avoided the real question. What, besides defense, will you cut to reduce the obscene amount of spending that is driving deficits and continuing to pile on debt?

Most of our liberal friends would like raise taxes, believing that this is the way to get prosperity. AOC Plus 3 has suggested a marginal rate of 70% to punish the Trump Base.

Yes I know, but I was sticking to the topic of the article posted by the OP, in which he stated that we have gross spending:

But what else is propping up the number? Government spending! Gross government spending, which accounts for about 17.5 percent of the GDP pie, spiked 5 percent. Non-defense spending rose by 15.9 percent!

I happen to agree with that part of the article. We need to cut non-defense spending by at least 25%, which would only be a reduction of 10.9%!

I may have a long wait to see if he'll come up with spending cuts that will make a real economic difference.

 

[Faun]

Nice try, but Barney Frank could not stop anything from his minority position in the House.

GO blow it out your ass, you lying stupid, pathological sack O shit!

Frank was the CHAIRMAN of the Financial Services Committee! Minority position, my ass!


View attachment 271388


Bawney Fwank. Another one of our queers we are damned proud of.

View attachment 271389

LOLOLOL

You're such an idiot.

By the time Frank became chairman of that committee, the economy train had already come off the rails, it just hadn't crashed yet.

The real-estate bubble began to show signs of deflating as housing prices began dropping...



... and foreclosures were breaking record highs in 2006...

Foreclosure Numbers at New Highs: Are Toxic Loans To Blame? - Realty Times

By April 2nd, 2007, just 2½ months after Frank became chairman, The number one leading lender of toxic loans, the second largest lender in the U.S., New Century Corp., filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the vast defaults on the toxic loans written over the years before Democrats took control of the Congress in 2007.

As always, you prove yourself to be a fucking imbecile.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Democrat debt = bad

Republican debt = good

Only if the Republicans have most of the power, but doesn't the House control the budget, and the party that controls the House is...…?

Besides, this is all BS anyway.

We have a $20,000 billion economy of which only about $980 billion is new debt.

I am not worried so much about this.

I am more worried about the interest rate on the 2 years bonds being higher than the interest rate on the 10 year bonds and the Saudis continuing their support for our USD.

 

[Faun]

Lie #1 Democrats were complaining

Democrats did nothing BUT complain, about EVERYTHING. You would think GW personally flew those planes into the Trade Towers himself! Had the Democrats helped instead of complained, we might have won the war in half the time with half the money. They didn't SHUT UP until Black Barack was in. Then they were finally happy.

Lie #2 "Obumma ran our debt up more than all previous administrations combined."
Not True. The debt was $10.6 trillion when Obama became president and it was $19.9 trillion.

So, it was about 10 trillion with Obumma got in and just short of 20 trillion when he left, but he didn't run up more debt (about 10 trillion) than all previous presidents (about 10 trillion).

Boy, Shawn, you sure caught me in another flagrant lie!

LOL

Fucking retard, you said, "no one was talking about it." Now even you agree Democrats were. Don't words mean anything to you?

And leave it to contard fuzzy math to round 9.3 to 10. According to your math, the debt is now about 23 trillion, up 3 trillion under trump. Are you feeling stupid yet?

 

[whitehall]

Hussein doubled the debit and told Americans that good jobs were gone while he bragged about the increase in food stamp recipients. No complaint from lefties. In the two years of Trump the DOW went up about 40% and unemployment fell to historic levels. Trump is trying to get a better deal with China foreign trade and lefties are fighting him every step of the way. The dirty little secret is that TDS lefties hate everything that is good about America.

 

[Faun]

Hussein doubled the debit and told Americans that good jobs were gone while he bragged about the increase in food stamp recipients. No complaint from lefties. In the two years of Trump the DOW went up about 40% and unemployment fell to historic levels. Trump is trying to get a better deal with China foreign trade and lefties are fighting him every step of the way. The dirty little secret is that TDS lefties hate everything that is good about America.

LOL

Rightards are such brainiacs, huh?

100% is doubled.

Debt under Obama went up 88% -- not double.

Debt under Bush went up 86% -- not double (but you also never hear a rightard claim Bush doubled the debt ... or Bush added more debt than all previous presidents combined).

Debt under Clinton went up 37% -- and the right hate him

Debt under Bush Sr. went up 61% -- and that was accomplished in only 4 years

Debt under Reagan went up 187% -- that's way more than double (you also never hear a rightard claim Reagan doubled the debt ... or Reaan added more debt than all previous presidents combined).

 

[Vandalshandle]

I'm thinking about applying for a job a chairperson for the GOP for the 2020 election. I figure that they will have to hire me when I tell them my suggestion for the 2020 platform.
"America is $74 trillion dollars in debt. TIME FOR ANOTHER TAX CUT!"

 

[Theowl32]

Hussein doubled the debit and told Americans that good jobs were gone while he bragged about the increase in food stamp recipients. No complaint from lefties. In the two years of Trump the DOW went up about 40% and unemployment fell to historic levels. Trump is trying to get a better deal with China foreign trade and lefties are fighting him every step of the way. The dirty little secret is that TDS lefties hate everything that is good about America.

But but Mac is a financial advisor.....

And he said.....

LOL

 

[toobfreak]

You're such an idiot.

The words of a person who has nothing intelligent to say, otherwise they would have said it. No further point reading you.

By the time Frank became chairman of that committee, the economy train had already come off the rails, it just hadn't crashed yet.

Pretty neat trick considering it was Bawney's bills that derailed and crashed it. Bye.

 

[Faun]

You're such an idiot.

The words of a person who has nothing intelligent to say, otherwise they would have said it. No further point reading you.

By the time Frank became chairman of that committee, the economy train had already come off the rails, it just hadn't crashed yet.

Pretty neat trick considering it was Bawney's bills that derailed and crashed it. Bye.

Aww, look at that pussy run away from me. I'll try and go easier on you in the future so I don't hurt your wibble feewings.



Pussy ... as I showed you, the economy began its descent into hell in 2006.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Hussein doubled the debit and told Americans that good jobs were gone while he bragged about the increase in food stamp recipients. No complaint from lefties. In the two years of Trump the DOW went up about 40% and unemployment fell to historic levels. Trump is trying to get a better deal with China foreign trade and lefties are fighting him every step of the way. The dirty little secret is that TDS lefties hate everything that is good about America.

But but Mac is a financial advisor.....

And he said.....

LOL

Trump's tax cut alone is increasing our debt by $1.2 trillion per year.