Tulsa police officer charged with manslaughter

[protectionist]

Mouser, your lies are obvious. They always are. Remember the knee slapper of yours that insists Islam is not a religion?

Islam ISN'T a religion. Only fools fall for the scam that it is. Italy isn't fooled.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Here's the thing dude.
None of the officers knew anything about this man. At the time he was shot, he hadn't even been identified yet.
He had no wants or warrants.
He was not a criminal or a suspect.

He died because of one officer's irrational fear.

FALSE! When holding a gun on someone it is standard procedure to shoot them (in self-defense) if/when they fail to show their hands. Liberals are so clueless on guns and LE, it's pathetic.

Crutcther was neither a perp nor a suspect.

 

[MikeK]

Actually it depends on jurisdiction. Zimmerman/Martin occurred in a Stand Your Ground state. If Zimmerman did the same thing in New York or New Jersey (et al) where the obligation to retreat applies he would not have walked so easily, if at all.

Anybody dumb enough to live in New York, deserves what they get. I recently heard that in the big apple those poor souls are not even allowed to carry a pepper spray. Is that really the USA ? Sheeeesh!

I agree with that criticism.

Looking back to the years before my four year military service (1956 - 1960), New York was a good place to live. Weapons laws were strict even back then but there really was no need for weapons back then -- as long as one knew how to mind one's own business. There were many things to like, or to love, about living the the "Big Apple" back then, which I did. There was an endless variety of interesting, exciting things to do.

But when I came home in 1960 I was conscious of a lot of changes and the changes continued year after year. One major change came about in 1964 when Robert Kennedy's Civil Rights Law was enacted and millions of impoverished, White-hating Blacks left the deep South, hundreds of thousands of whom came to New York, most of whom went on welfare. By 1965 the FBI crime statistics for New York City rose over 300%.

Wages had begun to rise in the early 50s, due to FDR's socialist policies and support of unions, so more and more people were buying cars. By the mid-60s the streets were crowded with cars (including ours). Finding a parking place was a hassle and traffic began to thicken. It had gotten so bad by 1980 we decided to move to New Jersey -- and here I am.

Now the traffic is getting unbearable out here.

 

[MikeK]

Not following this too closely, I see. His car was stopped in the middle of the roadway, right on the median, obstructing traffic coming from both directions, his door was wide open, and he was strolling around in the road, further creating a hazard. Lucky no one else was killed, because if this idiot.

So the radio run was about a car blocking a road, driver outside walking around and behaving erratically. I understand when the cops arrived they drew their guns, aimed them at Crutcher and began loudly commanding him to get on his knees. There was no mention in the radio run about weapons, or any criminal activity, or any menacing conduct by the subject. But they drew their guns and told him to get on his knees.

Is that right?

 

[MikeK]

This was a real threat, not an imagined one.Any time you hold a gun on someone, they are a threat to kill you.

Please explain specifically how that "threat to kill" was manifest. How did Crutcher convey that threat?

 

[MikeK]

This was a real threat, not an imagined one.Any time you hold a gun on someone, they are a threat to kill you.

Don't you have that a little backward?

 

[MikeK]

Creating evidence is illegal. My prior posts about the clarity and whiteness of the seats seen through the driver's window area, still holds the evidence of an open window. Also, you can see the vertical line of the white shirt of Crutcher, against his black arm. This could only be with his arm extended, and from where he was, that could only be into the car.

[...]

The FBI's photo unit doesn't "create" evidence. Like its fingerprint unit, it clarifies latent evidence.

I believe the FBI's photo unit could clarify this open-or-closed window issue and I'm wondering why it hasn't been done.

 

[MikeK]

It doesn't matter. I'm a cop, you aren't, so I might know a few things you don't such as the rules of deadly force don't require a weapon, just the perception of it. If you don't believe me, draw a toy gun on cops and see what happens. You cop haters keep citing incidents of cops shooting an unarmed suspect as if we're supposed to automatically conclude the cop screwed up. Then you scream injustice when a subsequent investigation clears the officer......as if there's no possible way to be justified in shooting an unarmed suspect, which is bullshit.

I think you may rest assured that even the most committed "cop-hater" knows drawing a toy gun on a cop would justifiably provoke a lethal response. But in situations where there is no menacing weapon, not even a facsimile of one, there needs to be some level of provocative threat to justify using lethal force.

It doesn't matter if there was no gun. If the cop reasonably suspected the thug was going for a gun, she was justified in using force.

The issue here is just how reasonable was Shelby's suspicion that Crutcher was reaching for a gun? The circumstances suggest it was bordering on conditioned paranoia. As you are well aware, cops deal with EDPs all the time, some of whom undoubtedly manifest far more menacing postures and/or behaviors than Crutcher's. How common is it to shoot them because of some vaguely affirmed notion of lethal threat?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Creating evidence is illegal. My prior posts about the clarity and whiteness of the seats seen through the driver's window area, still holds the evidence of an open window. Also, you can see the vertical line of the white shirt of Crutcher, against his black arm. This could only be with his arm extended, and from where he was, that could only be into the car.

[...]

The FBI's photo unit doesn't "create" evidence. Like its fingerprint unit, it clarifies latent evidence.

I believe the FBI's photo unit could clarify this open-or-closed window issue and I'm wondering why it hasn't been done.

There's no need for that. The follow-up investigation report from the scene will have all of that information. Windows up/down, functionality of the vehicle, etc. No doubt all of that was used by the prosecutor to arrive at his decision.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Not following this too closely, I see. His car was stopped in the middle of the roadway, right on the median, obstructing traffic coming from both directions, his door was wide open, and he was strolling around in the road, further creating a hazard. Lucky no one else was killed, because if this idiot.

So the radio run was about a car blocking a road, driver outside walking around and behaving erratically. I understand when the cops arrived they drew their guns, aimed them at Crutcher and began loudly commanding him to get on his knees. There was no mention in the radio run about weapons, or any criminal activity, or any menacing conduct by the subject. But they drew their guns and told him to get on his knees.

Is that right?

Officer Shelby happened upon Crutcher's vehicle while reroute to another call. She never heard anything about calls on Crutcher. She never ran his plates or identified Crutcher before the shooting.
The other officers were responding to back-up calls from Shelby and knew nothing about Crutcher either.
Crutcher was never a suspect or a perp but was treated as such by Shelby.


Police say PCP found in vehicle occupied by Terence Crutcher on Friday


“Officers did not know anything in reference to the individual prior to the contact,” Officer Jeanne MacKenzie, a police spokeswoman,told the World on Saturday.

Dispatch audio released Monday revealed that an officer ran a background check on Crutcher’s license plate, which found nothing indicating that a warrant had been issued for his arrest.

“It’s undisputed that the officers on the scene (Friday night) had no idea what may be in Terence’s car,” family attorney Damario Solomon-Simmons said during a press conference Tuesday. “They had no idea about the previous 911 calls. At that particular moment he was shot, he was not a suspect for any crime. Period.”

 

[GaryDog]

Mouser, your lies are obvious. They always are. Remember the knee slapper of yours that insists Islam is not a religion?

Islam ISN'T a religion. Only fools fall for the scam that it is. Italy isn't fooled.

So then I guess neither is Christianity?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mouser, your lies are obvious. They always are. Remember the knee slapper of yours that insists Islam is not a religion?

Islam ISN'T a religion. Only fools fall for the scam that it is. Italy isn't fooled.

So then I guess neither is Christianity?

protectionist really, really thinks he is an authority on these matters and the law.