CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[Flash]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

It is not "we".

It is mostly Black and Brown druggies, gang bangers and street thugs in Democrat controlled big cities.

 

[Blues Man]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

We already have reasonable gun control laws we just don't enforce them.

And you certainly seem to think gun control will lower our murder rate since you constantly compare the US to the UK and say we should do what they do which is basically ban guns

Can't argue with success. What they do works.

And yet guns are not the cause of our higher murder rate.

So maybe instead of their gun control you should be more in favor of their social policies.

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then we need to.....

1) get different criminals.....the criminals in Europe have total access to guns...they generally do not use them to commit murder.....robbery, kidnappings, yes....murder, not as much. When they do shoot each other, it is usually below the waist or to the lower part of the body, they don't shoot to kill....

But...

With the immigrants from the 3rd world taking over the European drug trade, they have no respect for Western Values, culture or law enforcement....and they are used to violence in a way Europeans are not...

The violence in Europe is increasing, and the gun of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, not hand guns...they also use grenades...

2) We need to get rid of the policies and actions of the democrat party.....the policies of the democrat party create a revolving door for our gun criminals.....they are captured over and over again with illegal guns, for committing violent crimes with guns, and for actually shooting at people and murdering them...then, they are released by democrat party judges, prosecutors and democrat activists who see them as victims, not violent monsters.


Change those two things and you have a point...since almost all of our gun crime and murder is concentrated in areas controlled directly, and totally by our democrat party....

The policies of the democrat party are not tolerated...so far, in Europe....that too is changing as the SJW, BLM, Antifa fascists push to destroy European police the way they have attacked our police...

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


And another point.....guns are not our problem.....democrats are our problem....as Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate did not go up..it went down....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate went down, not up...

Now.....this is important....be brave...

Why is it that when more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate did not go up, but, in fact, it went down....can you answer that direct question?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/10/n...n-issuing-permits-because-of-the-coronavirus/


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This did change in 2015....after 28 years of gun murder and gun crime going down, it started to go up...do you know why?

Be brave....answer the question.....

Hint: ( The democrat party, in 2015 under barak obama, began to make war on our police, with the goal to federalise control of local and state police forces.........this led to the Ferguson effect...where the police stopped being pro-active, because the democrat party targeted them for destruction even when they were 100% correct in their actions...)

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

Me? None......yet.

Well, you're a reasonably old man, right....probably between 18 and 60 somewhere. However old you are, according to you, there were over a million gun defenses ever year. I'm in my 50's. I have never been in a gun fight....I know nobody (outside of a few cops) who have seen hostile gunfire a few times--independent of military action. Thats is allegedly 50,000,000 defensive gun uses. And nobody I know and nobody whom they know....knows of anyone who was in a gunfight.

So my question is now this...lets say you're 30. That means during your "life", there were supposedly 30M defensive gun uses if you believe your silly statistic. Keep in mind, 30M people--that is more than live in Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, the Valley---the entire population of Texas.

How many people do you personally know (outside of cops) who have been in a gunfight? Just a number please...save your silly mumbo jumbo for someone who cares. That ain't me.

Me...still none.....ask the researchers of the 17 different studies...

And no, you don't get to dodge the questions I asked...

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Do you do it?

 

[BULLDOG]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

We already have reasonable gun control laws we just don't enforce them.

And you certainly seem to think gun control will lower our murder rate since you constantly compare the US to the UK and say we should do what they do which is basically ban guns

Can't argue with success. What they do works.

And yet guns are not the cause of our higher murder rate.

So maybe instead of their gun control you should be more in favor of their social policies.

75% of our murders are done with guns. Yes, they relate to the high murder rate.

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

you have a 99.997% chance of NOT being murdered by a person using a gun.

So we obviously are not a very violent society

Sounds about right until you actually look at the numbers.
If we are murdered, there is a 75.304% chance it will be with a gun.

FastStats

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.

www.cdc.gov

331,002,651 people in US. 606,520 will die each year of cancer. You have a 99,82% chance of not dying of cancer, so obviously, cancer is not anything to worry about.

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

you have a 99.997% chance of NOT being murdered by a person using a gun.

So we obviously are not a very violent society

Sounds about right until you actually look at the numbers.
If we are murdered, there is a 75.304% chance it will be with a gun.

FastStats

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.

www.cdc.gov

331,002,651 people in US. 606,520 will die each year of cancer. You have a 99,82% chance of not dying of cancer, so obviously, cancer is not anything to worry about.

And what is your chance of being murdered by any means?

I see you conveniently left that out.

in 2019 10258 people were murdered by someone using a gun

that is .003% of the population

So in 2019 99.997% of people did not get murdered by a person using a gun.

What is this, a math class? You have enough information in the posts to answer your own questions. Next time ask a 6th grader to help you with your math.

If 75.304% of all murders is 10258, then the remaining 24.696% is 3362. add those together, and you get 13,620.

If gun murders are 75%, of total murders and .003% of the population, total murdered is .004% of the population.

Are you trying to say murder is no big deal?

Since your chance of being murdered in any way is so low it doesn't matter how many are committed using guns.

you have a 99.997% chance of NOT being murdered by a [person using a gun

If that still keeps you awake at night that's your problem

Got it. You think murder is not a problem we need to deal with. So what do you think about all those gun nuts who think they have to be armed 24/7 for self protection? Are they just nuts?

Crime can happen to anyone, at anytime......you can live in the country and have two criminals who heard you had money in your home, murder your entire family....ask the Clutters.........a famous book was written about that one.....

Women are raped all the time at the point of a knife.........grabbed at bus stops, in office buildings........and even in their own homes...watch the Discovery Channel sometime....

Crime happens.....the odds of you specifically being a victim of gun murder is almost 0.....but it does happen......

You have no rational point.

 

[BULLDOG]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then we need to.....

1) get different criminals.....the criminals in Europe have total access to guns...they generally do not use them to commit murder.....robbery, kidnappings, yes....murder, not as much. When they do shoot each other, it is usually below the waist or to the lower part of the body, they don't shoot to kill....

But...

With the immigrants from the 3rd world taking over the European drug trade, they have no respect for Western Values, culture or law enforcement....and they are used to violence in a way Europeans are not...

The violence in Europe is increasing, and the gun of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, not hand guns...they also use grenades...

2) We need to get rid of the policies and actions of the democrat party.....the policies of the democrat party create a revolving door for our gun criminals.....they are captured over and over again with illegal guns, for committing violent crimes with guns, and for actually shooting at people and murdering them...then, they are released by democrat party judges, prosecutors and democrat activists who see them as victims, not violent monsters.


Change those two things and you have a point...since almost all of our gun crime and murder is concentrated in areas controlled directly, and totally by our democrat party....

The policies of the democrat party are not tolerated...so far, in Europe....that too is changing as the SJW, BLM, Antifa fascists push to destroy European police the way they have attacked our police...

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


And another point.....guns are not our problem.....democrats are our problem....as Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate did not go up..it went down....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate went down, not up...

Now.....this is important....be brave...

Why is it that when more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate did not go up, but, in fact, it went down....can you answer that direct question?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This did change in 2015....after 28 years of gun murder and gun crime going down, it started to go up...do you know why?

Be brave....answer the question.....

Hint: ( The democrat party, in 2015 under barak obama, began to make war on our police, with the goal to federalise control of local and state police forces.........this led to the Ferguson effect...where the police stopped being pro-active, because the democrat party targeted them for destruction even when they were 100% correct in their actions...)

As always, your cut and paste skills are superior. Too much to bother reading, but impressive anyway.

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

We already have reasonable gun control laws we just don't enforce them.

And you certainly seem to think gun control will lower our murder rate since you constantly compare the US to the UK and say we should do what they do which is basically ban guns

Can't argue with success. What they do works.

And yet guns are not the cause of our higher murder rate.

So maybe instead of their gun control you should be more in favor of their social policies.

75% of our murders are done with guns. Yes, they relate to the high murder rate.

Over 90% of all murder is committed by criminals with long histories of crime and violence....released over and over again by the democrat party......in democrat party controlled cities..

We don't have a gun problem, we have criminals being released by democrats problem..

How do I know this?

Because as more Americans own and carry guns....it didn't increase the gun crime or gun murder rates....

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


What causes gun murder? The policies of the democrat party....attacking the police, cutting police resources, getting them to stop pursuing criminals........that increases gun murder, not law abiding gun owners who do not use their legal guns for crime or violence...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then we need to.....

1) get different criminals.....the criminals in Europe have total access to guns...they generally do not use them to commit murder.....robbery, kidnappings, yes....murder, not as much. When they do shoot each other, it is usually below the waist or to the lower part of the body, they don't shoot to kill....

But...

With the immigrants from the 3rd world taking over the European drug trade, they have no respect for Western Values, culture or law enforcement....and they are used to violence in a way Europeans are not...

The violence in Europe is increasing, and the gun of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, not hand guns...they also use grenades...

2) We need to get rid of the policies and actions of the democrat party.....the policies of the democrat party create a revolving door for our gun criminals.....they are captured over and over again with illegal guns, for committing violent crimes with guns, and for actually shooting at people and murdering them...then, they are released by democrat party judges, prosecutors and democrat activists who see them as victims, not violent monsters.


Change those two things and you have a point...since almost all of our gun crime and murder is concentrated in areas controlled directly, and totally by our democrat party....

The policies of the democrat party are not tolerated...so far, in Europe....that too is changing as the SJW, BLM, Antifa fascists push to destroy European police the way they have attacked our police...

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


And another point.....guns are not our problem.....democrats are our problem....as Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate did not go up..it went down....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate went down, not up...

Now.....this is important....be brave...

Why is it that when more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate did not go up, but, in fact, it went down....can you answer that direct question?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This did change in 2015....after 28 years of gun murder and gun crime going down, it started to go up...do you know why?

Be brave....answer the question.....

Hint: ( The democrat party, in 2015 under barak obama, began to make war on our police, with the goal to federalise control of local and state police forces.........this led to the Ferguson effect...where the police stopped being pro-active, because the democrat party targeted them for destruction even when they were 100% correct in their actions...)

As always, your cut and paste skills are superior. Too much to bother reading, but impressive anyway.

he asked a simple question, How come from 1994 to 2018 the number of firearms went up while crimes using them went down if your claim that more guns equal more crime?

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then we need to.....

1) get different criminals.....the criminals in Europe have total access to guns...they generally do not use them to commit murder.....robbery, kidnappings, yes....murder, not as much. When they do shoot each other, it is usually below the waist or to the lower part of the body, they don't shoot to kill....

But...

With the immigrants from the 3rd world taking over the European drug trade, they have no respect for Western Values, culture or law enforcement....and they are used to violence in a way Europeans are not...

The violence in Europe is increasing, and the gun of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, not hand guns...they also use grenades...

2) We need to get rid of the policies and actions of the democrat party.....the policies of the democrat party create a revolving door for our gun criminals.....they are captured over and over again with illegal guns, for committing violent crimes with guns, and for actually shooting at people and murdering them...then, they are released by democrat party judges, prosecutors and democrat activists who see them as victims, not violent monsters.


Change those two things and you have a point...since almost all of our gun crime and murder is concentrated in areas controlled directly, and totally by our democrat party....

The policies of the democrat party are not tolerated...so far, in Europe....that too is changing as the SJW, BLM, Antifa fascists push to destroy European police the way they have attacked our police...

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


And another point.....guns are not our problem.....democrats are our problem....as Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate did not go up..it went down....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate went down, not up...

Now.....this is important....be brave...

Why is it that when more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate did not go up, but, in fact, it went down....can you answer that direct question?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This did change in 2015....after 28 years of gun murder and gun crime going down, it started to go up...do you know why?

Be brave....answer the question.....

Hint: ( The democrat party, in 2015 under barak obama, began to make war on our police, with the goal to federalise control of local and state police forces.........this led to the Ferguson effect...where the police stopped being pro-active, because the democrat party targeted them for destruction even when they were 100% correct in their actions...)

As always, your cut and paste skills are superior. Too much to bother reading, but impressive anyway.

Yes....the typical, dodge of posters like you.......you make accusations, you use irrational, emotional arguments....then challenge us to respond...

I respond with facts, truth, reality.....and they you run back and say..."Cut and paste, cut and paste."

That is truly weak sauce ....

Here....let's see you dodge these....

And no, you don't get to dodge the questions I asked...

What do you want the woman who was brutally beaten, stabbed and had two of her teeth pulled out by her ex-husband, who was already on a restraining order.....to do to stop the attack.....?

The woman who was violently gang raped by a group of men in the London park....what do you want her to do to keep from being violently gang raped again?

Please answer.....be brave.....

I have built a time machine....I offer you the opportunity to go back in time and to the scenes of the crimes I posted...the woman facing the 2 men who also had a baseball bat, who pulled out her gun and the two guys ran away.....and the woman who was attacked in the parking garage, who was stabbed repeatedly until she managed to get her gun and shoot him, stopping the attack and saving her life......

Now...with my time machine...you can sneak back and take those guns away from those women before the attacks...they will not have those guns.....

Do you do it?

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

We already have reasonable gun control laws we just don't enforce them.

And you certainly seem to think gun control will lower our murder rate since you constantly compare the US to the UK and say we should do what they do which is basically ban guns

Can't argue with success. What they do works.

It doesn't work anymore....crime is not static....crime changes as society changes...we went from West Side Story where the gangs used knives....to the 60s, 70s, and 80s where the new drug gangs used guns...

Europe, and Britain.....are now having daylight public shootings by criminals shooting other criminals...in Sweden, they are throwing grenades at each other...

The weapon of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle.....and grenades.....

Your argument is falling apart........Europe no longer has control of their criminals...their criminals do not respect Western Values, culture or police......and the social welfare states have no reached a point where they have destroyed families....and fatherless homes are creating the new, violent criminals....just as happened in the U.S. in the 1960s......

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

Here are some ideas that will work...

1) keep violent, repeat gun offenders locked up in prison....for 30-life.

2) work to get families to stay together, to not have children until they are married......our democrat party controlled cities have minority out of wedlock birthrates of over 70%...that is what causes crime and poverty....that causes murder...

3) stop attacking the police....the democrat party war on police is increasing the murder rate, in particular the black and hispanic murder rate......by attacking the police...defunding the police, the democrat party is increasing our crime rates.....

4) for the rarest of rare gun crimes...mass public shootings....

a. get rid of gun free zones. mass shooters target gun free zones.

b. work to improve parental and organizational awareness of the dangerously mentally ill........

There......very specific policies that actually target gun murder.....

Nothing you want does anything ....

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

 

[sealybobo]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

We already have reasonable gun control laws we just don't enforce them.

And you certainly seem to think gun control will lower our murder rate since you constantly compare the US to the UK and say we should do what they do which is basically ban guns

Can't argue with success. What they do works.

It doesn't work anymore....crime is not static....crime changes as society changes...we went from West Side Story where the gangs used knives....to the 60s, 70s, and 80s where the new drug gangs used guns...

Europe, and Britain.....are now having daylight public shootings by criminals shooting other criminals...in Sweden, they are throwing grenades at each other...

The weapon of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle.....and grenades.....

Your argument is falling apart........Europe no longer has control of their criminals...their criminals do not respect Western Values, culture or police......and the social welfare states have no reached a point where they have destroyed families....and fatherless homes are creating the new, violent criminals....just as happened in the U.S. in the 1960s......

I don’t think any other country has a crazy gun culture like we do except Afghanistan maybe and still it’s safer in Afghanistan than it is in Detroit and chicago.

We can have common sense gun legislation and still you can have all the guns you want. We just need to take the sale of each gun more seriously. But you don’t want the government to know you have guns because it’s the government you’re afraid of. Conundrum

 

[BULLDOG]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then we need to.....

1) get different criminals.....the criminals in Europe have total access to guns...they generally do not use them to commit murder.....robbery, kidnappings, yes....murder, not as much. When they do shoot each other, it is usually below the waist or to the lower part of the body, they don't shoot to kill....

But...

With the immigrants from the 3rd world taking over the European drug trade, they have no respect for Western Values, culture or law enforcement....and they are used to violence in a way Europeans are not...

The violence in Europe is increasing, and the gun of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, not hand guns...they also use grenades...

2) We need to get rid of the policies and actions of the democrat party.....the policies of the democrat party create a revolving door for our gun criminals.....they are captured over and over again with illegal guns, for committing violent crimes with guns, and for actually shooting at people and murdering them...then, they are released by democrat party judges, prosecutors and democrat activists who see them as victims, not violent monsters.


Change those two things and you have a point...since almost all of our gun crime and murder is concentrated in areas controlled directly, and totally by our democrat party....

The policies of the democrat party are not tolerated...so far, in Europe....that too is changing as the SJW, BLM, Antifa fascists push to destroy European police the way they have attacked our police...

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


And another point.....guns are not our problem.....democrats are our problem....as Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate did not go up..it went down....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate went down, not up...

Now.....this is important....be brave...

Why is it that when more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate did not go up, but, in fact, it went down....can you answer that direct question?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This did change in 2015....after 28 years of gun murder and gun crime going down, it started to go up...do you know why?

Be brave....answer the question.....

Hint: ( The democrat party, in 2015 under barak obama, began to make war on our police, with the goal to federalise control of local and state police forces.........this led to the Ferguson effect...where the police stopped being pro-active, because the democrat party targeted them for destruction even when they were 100% correct in their actions...)

As always, your cut and paste skills are superior. Too much to bother reading, but impressive anyway.

he asked a simple question, How come from 1994 to 2018 the number of firearms went up while crimes using them went down if your claim that more guns equal more crime?

I don't read long cut and paste posts.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We have an inner city murder problem because we want to have an inner city murder problem

I suppose it is easy to make that claim, but I've never seen anyone be able to prove it.

The proof is in the statistics.

Inner city murders aren't solved because the powers that be don't want them to be solved

If you really were concerned about the murder rate you would want to find out where most murders occur and why they occur in those places and it isn't because of guns. In fact there are actually fewer guns per capita in urban areas than rural areas yet murder rates are the highest in cities and most of those murders are concentrated in very small geographic areas.

Like I said we all know where the most murders take place and the cops and city officials sure as hell know it too but nothing ever seems to be done about it

Didn't you just say murders weren't worth concerning ourselves with? Again, you make the accusation that nobody wants to prevent murders any more than you do, but don't present any proof that is true. Just like always.

Murder isn't a concern for most people.

I never said I wanted to prevent murders more than anyone else if you think I did then quote it.

What I said was that everyone, even you, know where most murders take place but most people, even you, don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Higher crime rates, including murder rates around the world are tied to the same thing. Poverty and inequality. Studies have shown this to be true whether it be a town or entire country, the higher the poverty and inequality rates, the higher the crime rates. What exactly do you think should be done to reduce crime in the inner cities? We've tried the get tough strategy, and it just made things worse. What do you think should be done?

Ask a sociologist.

I do know that making it harder for law abiding people to own guns won't do anything

Sociologists have already answered that question. Relieve the poverty and inequality in those areas.

So does that mean you will stop trying to say gun control will be the answer to our murder rate?

I never said gun control is THE answer to our murder rate. I don't think there is one all encompassing answer. Reasonable gun control would help.

We already have reasonable gun control laws we just don't enforce them.

And you certainly seem to think gun control will lower our murder rate since you constantly compare the US to the UK and say we should do what they do which is basically ban guns

Can't argue with success. What they do works.

It doesn't work anymore....crime is not static....crime changes as society changes...we went from West Side Story where the gangs used knives....to the 60s, 70s, and 80s where the new drug gangs used guns...

Europe, and Britain.....are now having daylight public shootings by criminals shooting other criminals...in Sweden, they are throwing grenades at each other...

The weapon of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle.....and grenades.....

Your argument is falling apart........Europe no longer has control of their criminals...their criminals do not respect Western Values, culture or police......and the social welfare states have no reached a point where they have destroyed families....and fatherless homes are creating the new, violent criminals....just as happened in the U.S. in the 1960s......

I don’t think any other country has a crazy gun culture like we do except Afghanistan maybe and still it’s safer in Afghanistan than it is in Detroit and chicago.

We can have common sense gun legislation and still you can have all the guns you want. We just need to take the sale of each gun more seriously. But you don’t want the government to know you have guns because it’s the government you’re afraid of. Conundrum

We have all the gun laws we need......what we don't have is a political party that controls our major cities that will keep known, repeat, violent gun offenders in prison.....

Every gun sold in a gun store gets a federal, mandatory background check.....criminals don't worry about those because they get their guns from straw buyers, who can pass any background check, or they steal the guns...

Then, when we catch the actual straw buyers...the democrat party prosecutors let them go.....

Because you just want to ban guns, you don't see the actual problem...so it doesn't get solved, which works for you because you want to ban guns and the more bodies in the street, the better it is for your cause....

If we keep criminals actually locked up....you lose your power...

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive. In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

Read more at: America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......

We kill 55 people with guns for every 1 person they kill with guns. We should be doing what they are doing.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then we need to.....

1) get different criminals.....the criminals in Europe have total access to guns...they generally do not use them to commit murder.....robbery, kidnappings, yes....murder, not as much. When they do shoot each other, it is usually below the waist or to the lower part of the body, they don't shoot to kill....

But...

With the immigrants from the 3rd world taking over the European drug trade, they have no respect for Western Values, culture or law enforcement....and they are used to violence in a way Europeans are not...

The violence in Europe is increasing, and the gun of choice for European criminals is the fully automatic military rifle, not hand guns...they also use grenades...

2) We need to get rid of the policies and actions of the democrat party.....the policies of the democrat party create a revolving door for our gun criminals.....they are captured over and over again with illegal guns, for committing violent crimes with guns, and for actually shooting at people and murdering them...then, they are released by democrat party judges, prosecutors and democrat activists who see them as victims, not violent monsters.


Change those two things and you have a point...since almost all of our gun crime and murder is concentrated in areas controlled directly, and totally by our democrat party....

The policies of the democrat party are not tolerated...so far, in Europe....that too is changing as the SJW, BLM, Antifa fascists push to destroy European police the way they have attacked our police...

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/


And another point.....guns are not our problem.....democrats are our problem....as Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate did not go up..it went down....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate went down, not up...

Now.....this is important....be brave...

Why is it that when more Americans own and carry guns, our gun murder rate did not go up, but, in fact, it went down....can you answer that direct question?

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This did change in 2015....after 28 years of gun murder and gun crime going down, it started to go up...do you know why?

Be brave....answer the question.....

Hint: ( The democrat party, in 2015 under barak obama, began to make war on our police, with the goal to federalise control of local and state police forces.........this led to the Ferguson effect...where the police stopped being pro-active, because the democrat party targeted them for destruction even when they were 100% correct in their actions...)

As always, your cut and paste skills are superior. Too much to bother reading, but impressive anyway.

he asked a simple question, How come from 1994 to 2018 the number of firearms went up while crimes using them went down if your claim that more guns equal more crime?

I don't read long cut and paste posts.

You don't read the actual facts, truth and reality that show you have emotions, not arguments.

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

Show me a link that guns turned in don’t match a murder. No fucking way. If that was true every murderer would turn in their guns. I’m calling you a liar.

 

[sealybobo]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

View attachment 500222

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

Omg. I’m talking about implementing policies that will stop gangs from getting guns. You’re not willing because gangs aren’t going to participate in buybacks.

Sorry I don’t have a policy idea that will get all gang members to turn in all their illegal guns. Do you? And so what? So does that mean we shouldn’t pass any common sense gun legislation?

Should we repeal all the common sense gun legislation we have on the books now? Why not? They don’t get gang members to participate in buybacks so why are we bothering?

If we did it your way no gang member would have an illegal gun. There would be no such thing. And every gang kill would be justified under stand your ground laws.

You are wrong.....gangs do participate in gun buybacks...after they use a gun to kill another gang member, they turn the gun in, without any questions...and get gift cards......

What we need to do is keep violent gun offenders, in particular, gang members who use illegal guns, in prison.....

The democrat party keeps giving them bail, no-cash bail, home monitoring....before they go to prison........no matter how many times they are arrested for carrying and even using illegal guns.....

Then, the democrat party plea bargains down the gun charge, making a violent gun crime into a mere drug selling charge, giving them a reduced sentence....and they are out in under 3 years to use illegal guns for crime and murder again.....

Japan locks people up for 15 years...in a Japanese prison vs the comfy American prisons.........and for life if they discharge the weapon.....

They don't get bail, they don't get no cash bail, they don't get home monitoring...and they are not released over and over again despite repeated gun crimes....

It’s not democrats. Its our legal system. People on trial have rights do you want to take those away? So the prosecutor settles for a ten year sentence plea rather than go to trial.

And then you republicans don’t want to rehabilitate just punish them, then they come out worse