CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[peacefan]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

 

[PoliticalChic]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Did you favor Americans having guns when we used them to free you from the Nazis?



BTW....legal gun owners don't commit crimes.

1. Example: “Of the 51,078 permits that have been issued by the state since the law took effect in 2007, 44 permit holders have been charged with a crime while using a firearm through late October, according to records provided by the Kansas Attorney General’s Office.”
2. http://www.kansas.com/news/article1103132.html
3. http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/17/2572467/few-crimes-committed-by-concealed.html ( .00086%)

How does that 0.00086% crime rate stack up against the crime rate in your nation?

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

And to add to PoliticalChic's post.....

Guns are not our problem.......as more Americans own and carry guns, it did not increase our gun crime, our gun murder or our violent crime rates...guns weren't the issue.....

The policies of our democrat party, their desire to release violent gun offenders in a revolving door policy for violent crime.....that is our issue...if they would stop releasing the people who actually use guns illegally....we would have a gun crime rate as low or lower than yours....

And keep in mind, something you don't understand.....almost all of our gun murder victims are criminals...murdered by other criminals.....and of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends and family of criminals who are hit by mistake....go to places where the democrat party isn't in control...and you don't have high rates of gun crime or gun murder.......

And I am curious...in your country, if you had a criminal....a felon due to a gun crime....would your prosecutors, judges and politicians let them out of jail or prison over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for illegal gun possession and even shooting people?

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/10/n...n-issuing-permits-because-of-the-coronavirus/


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[candycorn]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[candycorn]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

You refuse to answer this question...

One woman...brutally beaten and has 2 teeth pulled out of her mouth by the hands of her violent attacker.....after the crime..not before...he is arrested and sentenced to 4 years in prison......he may get out early too....

What does she do in the British system?

The guy violated a then current restraining order........

Sohaib Younis broke a restraining order

Under the British System...what do you think this woman should do when this guy gets out in 4 years.....?

A man has been jailed for four years for a vicious attack on his former partner in which he pulled out two of her teeth with his hands. Sohaib Younis broke a restraining order when he went inside the woman’s home and tried to resume their relationship last year. A struggle ensued and Younis told the victim he would ‘kill her’ if she called the police, then fled the scene, Bradford Crown Court heard. Younis returned a week later and entered her house but became angry when she refused to get into bed with him.
-----
The court heard he then launched a brutal assault and punched his ex several times in the face, dragged her into the living room by her hair and kicked her in the face. He then picked up a pair of scissors and stabbed her in the left side of her head. He refused to leave and lunged at her with a screwdriver causing a cut above her eye, prosecutor Nadim Bashir said. Ms Bashir told the court Younis, from Halifax, West Yorkshire, pinned the woman down, put his hand into her mouth and pulled out two of her bottom teeth – causing immense pain.


Read more: Man pulled woman's teeth out with his bare hands in terrifying attack



This woman...gang raped in a public park by a group of men the police will not identify or say how many there were...in Britain, her only option is a rape alarm.

A woman has been gang raped by a group of men in a Manchester park in what police have called a “truly horrendous” attack.

The victim, in her 20s, was set upon in Kirkup Gardens in the city’s Wythenshawe area at 12.30am on Tuesday.

Police described the crime as “random and sickening”.

Woman gang raped in Manchester park in ‘truly horrendous’ attack

Victim, in her 20s, was set upon during what police say was a ‘random and sickening’ incident

www.independent.co.uk

What does this woman do the next time a group of men want to rape her?

Please....explain......what do these women do to prevent these attacks from being repeated in the British system.............the one guy is out in 4 years...what does she do?

 

[2aguy]

19 year old man in Britain on trial for stabbing two women to death in a park in England......

Two women...stabbed to death...the man did not use a gun.

In America, these women would have had the option to own and carry a gun.......to stop this man.....

Bibaa Henry, 46, and Nicole Smallman, 27, suffered more than 30 stab wounds before being “dragged” and buried within Fryent Country Park in the early hours of June 6, 2020.

Friend describes ‘lifeless eyes’ of sisters found dead in Wembley park

The sisters had been 'full of life' and 'dancing' throughout the evening, the Old Bailey heard

www.mylondon.news

How does a British woman.....or two women....keep a man from stabbing them 30 times?

Does a rape alarm work?

 

[Batcat]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

How many times a year in America are guns used to commit crimes?

How many times a year in America are guns used to prevent a crime?

The point is we have a crazy out of control gun culture where even the criminals have no problem getting their hands on guns. In Australia and Canada and England far less people are victims of gun violence as they are here in America.

Face it. If we had tougher gun laws we'd have less dead people in America every year. You could still have hunting guns and guns to protect your home but not every tom dick and harry can get an assault rifle.

I would feel safer in another country despite the fact that so many John Wayne's are running around packin. They don't make me feel safe but all the American rampage shooters do make me feel unsafe.

You can pass all the draconian gun laws you can think of and you still will see no major drop in gun violence.

Do you really think the drug gangs and criminals are going to participate in a gun buy back program or turn their firearms in? Do you really think citizens are going to turn their firearms in knowing the criminals will keep theirs?

Of course you will say you will just send the cops out to confiscate firearms from honest people who have committed no crime. Good luck with that as many counties and states in our nation are gun sanctuaries. I live in a county in Florida that is a gun sanctuary. In such counties the locals will not cooperate with the Feds to confiscate firearms from honest people. They will tell you that goes against the Constitution which they have pledged an oath to defend.

States and counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary (or other pro-Second Amendment) laws or resolutions. View county names by opening the map and hovering your mouse when using a laptop/desktop. Localities within counties that have adopted such resolutions are not displayed in this map; please see the corresponding Wikipedia article for the full list. Green = County level Blue = State level Purple = Both state and county levels

Second Amendment sanctuary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do police swear an oath to the Constitution? | USAttorneys.com

Oath. State and local police generally swear an oath to the United States Constitution, as civil service or uniformed service officers, stating: “I, officer name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and...

police-brutality.usattorneys.com

 

[candycorn]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

 

[candycorn]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

 

[Blues Man]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

I for one don't want to do anything the Brits do.

If you want to then move there

 

[Blues Man]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

 

[Blues Man]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

you have a 99.997% chance of NOT being murdered by a person using a gun.

So we obviously are not a very violent society

 

[miketx]

You need to provide sources for these numbers

Why? The left shit stains will deny it.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

Me? None......yet. How does my having or not having been in a gun fight have any influence on the people who have been raped, beaten, knifed, robbed or murdered.....who could likely have stopped those attacks if they had a gun....and the 1.1 million other Americans who actually did have a gun?

I have never written a book, but I support the 1st Amendment just as strongly as the 2nd Amendment.....I have never been arrested but support the protections in the 5th Amendment...

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

I strongly prefer the Dutch model (i'm a Dutch citizen).
we have a population of over 17 million people, yet violent crime has decreased from +-9100 incidents in 20210 to +-3500 incidents in 2020.

only the police are allowed guns in this country, and guns hardly ever get abused. years between "school shootings" (the last one i can remember was over 8 years ago, and involved a crazy man walking into a supermarket and shooting people).

you people in the US however, have dozens of incidents per week where guns are used against random strangers.

and lastly, we have a rich history of martial arts schools in this country.
and it's perfectly possible to stop a robbery or rape attempt without a gun. it's just different training. which you can find on youtube for instance, i recommend a search for 'silat' and 'systema'.

Tell that to Sweden...they are experiencing violent gun crime at higher rates than the rest of Europe....

Americans use their guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, beatings, knifings, robberies and murders.....we have a political party that keeps releasing the most violent criminals back onto our streets....

As you live in a tiny country, with a homogenous population, you are lucky......you don't have a political party releasing violent criminals, and you don't have 3rd world immigrants taking over your drug trade......

Statistics were debunked long ago.

There are nowhere near a million defensive gun uses per year.

That would be 2,740 a day, every day.

Put another way, that would be about 115 an hour, every hour, every day.

Visually....everyone you see in these 10 pictures of the stadium....would have had to have used a gun in self defense in a year.


The cartoonish figure has been debunked over and over again....

The figure is closer to about 80,000 and many of those are passive gun displays...not active gun uses.


Ask yourself...do you know anyone who has had to have a shoot out with someone? No.
Do you know anyone who knows anyone who has had a shoot out with someone? No.

From actual professional researchers from both private and government research groups including the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice....in a country of now over 320 million people, with 600 million guns in private hands, and over 19.4 million Americans legally carrying guns for self defense in public....

Do you know the difference in size between 320,000,000.....600,000,000.....19,400,000

And 80,000?

Keep in mind....the majority of those doing the following research...were anti-gunners...including Gary Kleck......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Few people have used a gun in self defense
Few people know anyone who has used a gun in self defense.
Few people know anyone who knows anyone who has used a gun in self defense.

Your statistic is comedic and I'm being polite.

You say that without any backup.....the very first post a moderator told me since this is the CDZ I had to provide links to my numbers....I did...you have not......

I provided a list of 17 studies by professional research groups, both private and government, most of them anti-gun, using modern research methods....including the vaunted Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice...

You just make claims......

How many gunfights have you been in personally?

You refuse to answer this question...

One woman...brutally beaten and has 2 teeth pulled out of her mouth by the hands of her violent attacker.....after the crime..not before...he is arrested and sentenced to 4 years in prison......he may get out early too....

What does she do in the British system?

The guy violated a then current restraining order........

Sohaib Younis broke a restraining order

Under the British System...what do you think this woman should do when this guy gets out in 4 years.....?

A man has been jailed for four years for a vicious attack on his former partner in which he pulled out two of her teeth with his hands. Sohaib Younis broke a restraining order when he went inside the woman’s home and tried to resume their relationship last year. A struggle ensued and Younis told the victim he would ‘kill her’ if she called the police, then fled the scene, Bradford Crown Court heard. Younis returned a week later and entered her house but became angry when she refused to get into bed with him.
-----
The court heard he then launched a brutal assault and punched his ex several times in the face, dragged her into the living room by her hair and kicked her in the face. He then picked up a pair of scissors and stabbed her in the left side of her head. He refused to leave and lunged at her with a screwdriver causing a cut above her eye, prosecutor Nadim Bashir said. Ms Bashir told the court Younis, from Halifax, West Yorkshire, pinned the woman down, put his hand into her mouth and pulled out two of her bottom teeth – causing immense pain.


Read more: Man pulled woman's teeth out with his bare hands in terrifying attack



This woman...gang raped in a public park by a group of men the police will not identify or say how many there were...in Britain, her only option is a rape alarm.

A woman has been gang raped by a group of men in a Manchester park in what police have called a “truly horrendous” attack.

The victim, in her 20s, was set upon in Kirkup Gardens in the city’s Wythenshawe area at 12.30am on Tuesday.
Police described the crime as “random and sickening”.

Woman gang raped in Manchester park in ‘truly horrendous’ attack​

Victim, in her 20s, was set upon during what police say was a ‘random and sickening’ incident


What does this woman do the next time a group of men want to rape her?

Please....explain......what do these women do to prevent these attacks from being repeated in the British system.............the one guy is out in 4 years...what does she do?

I understand why you refuse to answer this question.......you can't. These attacks happen in Britain, just as they do in the U.S.....but in Britain...it is against the law to use any object or technique that will physically injure even the most violent attacker.......you are left with a rape alarm..........

You can't explain what these women should do because in a country without guns.....these women are at the mercy of male, and female, criminals...with the police in their only role....... report takers.....

Men, and women, who are criminals do not need guns to rape, rob, beat, bludgeon, knife or murder their victims.........their victims, however, are at their mercy.......

Are you willing to answer this question..........or will you fall back on " I won't answer because.......cause....."

 

[2aguy]

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly a many. We should do what they are doing.

London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours.

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

No what i think is that the violence in the inner cities that is the main contributor to our murder rate is at best not seen as important by the governments of those cities and at worst it is actually accepted as some means to an end.

The fact is that the murder rates of just a handful of cities is skewing the rate of the entire country and what's more these pockets of violence with very high murder rates are so small and isolated that an area of just a few square city blocks can have a murder rate that is 10 or 15 times the national average while an adjacent similar sized area in the same city will have a murder rate far less than the national average.

We all know this, the cops know this, the city and state governments know this but for some reason they all choose to ignore it because it's mostly young poor minority males killing other young poor minority males

Exactly......and the problem for Europe? They think that crime is static....that their culture, values and justice system will always keep the monsters at bay.........they are starting to see that this isn't the case.........World War 1 and 2 slowed down Europe when it came to crime.........they are now reaching the point that the U.S. found itself in in the 1950s....as criminals transitioned from knives to guns..........and more and more violence......