Two Proud Gun Nuts Second-Amendment Each Other To Death In Road Rage Incident

[2aguy]

the gun is designed to save the life of the user...this can be accomplished by firing bullets....which can drive off an enemy, injure or kill them......3 options right there...

And the most common type of use...never requires any gullet to be fired...all while protecting the life of the user...
.... the mere presence of a gun deters violence more than it is used to cause violence......the majority of police officers never fire their guns and at the same time the mere presence of the gun keeps them safe from attack....ditto guns in the hands of soldiers, again, most soldiers will never fire their guns....but the mere presence of guns is usually more than enough to prevent open combat between nations...

so you are wrong....

The owner is killed by his own gun far more than they kill anyone else.

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

Here is the truth brain.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208


Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39
Total: 72 ( in a country of 320 million people)


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....

 

[2aguy]

the gun is designed to save the life of the user...this can be accomplished by firing bullets....which can drive off an enemy, injure or kill them......3 options right there...

And the most common type of use...never requires any gullet to be fired...all while protecting the life of the user...
.... the mere presence of a gun deters violence more than it is used to cause violence......the majority of police officers never fire their guns and at the same time the mere presence of the gun keeps them safe from attack....ditto guns in the hands of soldiers, again, most soldiers will never fire their guns....but the mere presence of guns is usually more than enough to prevent open combat between nations...

so you are wrong....

The owner is killed by his own gun far more than they kill anyone else.

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

 

[Brain357]

The owner is killed by his own gun far more than they kill anyone else.

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

Here is the truth brain.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208


Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39
Total: 72 ( in a country of 320 million people)


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....

And now you change the subject. Sad.

 

[Brain357]

The owner is killed by his own gun far more than they kill anyone else.

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

 

[2aguy]

the gun is designed to save the life of the user...this can be accomplished by firing bullets....which can drive off an enemy, injure or kill them......3 options right there...

And the most common type of use...never requires any gullet to be fired...all while protecting the life of the user...
.... the mere presence of a gun deters violence more than it is used to cause violence......the majority of police officers never fire their guns and at the same time the mere presence of the gun keeps them safe from attack....ditto guns in the hands of soldiers, again, most soldiers will never fire their guns....but the mere presence of guns is usually more than enough to prevent open combat between nations...

so you are wrong....

The owner is killed by his own gun far more than they kill anyone else.

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

Yes..the actual research...while you pull the numbers out of your ass...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

No, you have 1.5 million reported crimes.....another 2 million are stopped by armed Americans......

 

[Brain357]

The owner is killed by his own gun far more than they kill anyone else.

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

Yes..the actual research...while you pull the numbers out of your ass...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

The largest study NCVS 108k

Your numbers aren't possible.

 

[Brain357]

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

No, you have 1.5 million reported crimes.....another 2 million are stopped by armed Americans......

So a minority stops more crimes than are committed? Wow that is some stupidity.

 

[Brain357]

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

No, you have 1.5 million reported crimes.....another 2 million are stopped by armed Americans......

Most of your studies say less than 2 million. Your own studies say you are wrong.

 

[Brain357]

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

No, you have 1.5 million reported crimes.....another 2 million are stopped by armed Americans......

I have 12 studies that say it's less than 2 million. How many you have?

 

[Brain357]

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

No, you have 1.5 million reported crimes.....another 2 million are stopped by armed Americans......

Show me mathematically how a minority of the population could defend more crimes than are committed? And why are they not reporting? Must be criminals themselves, the law abiding would report them.

 

[airplanemechanic]

You need to understand the definition of stopping a crime.

If you're trying to break into my house and I give a quick call to Smith and Wesson and you run off, that's a crime stopped but it won't be a crime reported. It certainly wasn't violent as in a vast majority of cases the person drawing the weapon doesn't fire it.

Look at how many times a crime is stopped when a cop draws his weapon. Does he fire it every time? No. But would you classify the times that he doesn't fire it as times where the gun didn't stop the crime?

 

[Dot Com]

Do tell.
What restrictions are inherent to the right to arms US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Like most rights the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Question What qualifies as an infringement of the right to arms US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Seems as though you have your answer...

As do you, rendering your statement effectively meaningless.

Nope - Gun laws in the US state by state interactive US news theguardian.com

I thank you for your ineffective response.
Unless you describe how the limitations that all rights have are directly involved with my statement, you've only managed meaninglessly stated the obvious.
I'm sure this will only continue.

Works like this:

Right to a gun, but
Right to free speech, but
Right to privacy, but
Right to vote, but
Right to travel, but
Right to run for elected office, but

And so on. All rights have limitations, like those placed on guns and gun owners.

Don't try to use logic w/ a single-issue poster ESPECIALLY gun nutter single-issue, posters

 

[Brain357]

You need to understand the definition of stopping a crime.

If you're trying to break into my house and I give a quick call to Smith and Wesson and you run off, that's a crime stopped but it won't be a crime reported. It certainly wasn't violent as in a vast majority of cases the person drawing the weapon doesn't fire it.

Look at how many times a crime is stopped when a cop draws his weapon. Does he fire it every time? No. But would you classify the times that he doesn't fire it as times where the gun didn't stop the crime?

How many times have you done that?

 

[airplanemechanic]

What does that have to do with anything? This country has 320 million people. It doesn't have to have happened to me to have happened to millions of others.

I love how people who illegally obtain firearms and use them in a criminal manner are seemingly ignored by the left but if someone has a concealed carry permit it means they're Jesus Christ with a handgun and they BETTER NOT do a damn thing the slightest bit wrong or it means IMMEDIATELY REMOVE ALL GUNS FROM ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS BECAUSE IF THIS ONE DID THIS, THEY ALL WILL.

Uh no, there are idiots with concealed carry permits too. Statistics show they are by far the safest group of gun owners, however.

 

[2aguy]

Link please.

And were these owners alcoholics, drug users, violent criminals....since that determines dying by your own gun more than the gun does.......

You know the owner is killed far more than anyone else.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

Yes..the actual research...while you pull the numbers out of your ass...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

The largest study NCVS 108k

Your numbers aren't possible.

The NCVS study is crap....just ask the dailykos....

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

 

[2aguy]

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

No, you have 1.5 million reported crimes.....another 2 million are stopped by armed Americans......

I have 12 studies that say it's less than 2 million. How many you have?

All 16 say the number is at or above 764,000 incidents...and the study commissioned by the Clinton Justice Department, designed and executed by 2 anti gun extremists found the number was 1.5 million times a year....

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf)

And that was just one of the studies with numbers that high.....

And here are all the ones you ignore that are over 1 million...because they defeat your argument....

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

 

[2aguy]

Actually, you are lying again...that is only part of the equation...since owners stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives about 2 million times a year......

Gun accidental death in 2013.....505..

and of course your link...an anti gun extremist group......let's see...they will probably quote the hack hemenway...and lie about their stats......

Now you jump back into fantasy land. Your 2 million is made up.

Who is killed by guns each year:
20k suicides, owner
8500 homicides, innocent victim
500 accidents, usually owner
230 criminals in defense

By far guns kill the owner. It is more a suicide machine than anything else.

It is more a suicide machine than anything else

No...the Japanese, South Koreans, and Chinese have no access to guns and kill themelves at 2 times our rate....so they have 40,000 suicides without any gun involved.......

and 2 million people stop violent crime each year..........

We only have like 1.5 million violent crimes each year and gun owners are a minority. Your 2 million claim is just silly.

No, you have 1.5 million reported crimes.....another 2 million are stopped by armed Americans......

Show me mathematically how a minority of the population could defend more crimes than are committed? And why are they not reporting? Must be criminals themselves, the law abiding would report them.

Are you really that stupid brain......you cite 1.5 million crimes....those are crimes actually reported....thedailykos shows that your stupid NCVS survey you cite doesn't even come close to catching all crimes committed....and that doesn't include crimes that never happen because the victims stopped the attackers...because they used a gun to drive them off.......

 

[2aguy]

You need to understand the definition of stopping a crime.

If you're trying to break into my house and I give a quick call to Smith and Wesson and you run off, that's a crime stopped but it won't be a crime reported. It certainly wasn't violent as in a vast majority of cases the person drawing the weapon doesn't fire it.

Look at how many times a crime is stopped when a cop draws his weapon. Does he fire it every time? No. But would you classify the times that he doesn't fire it as times where the gun didn't stop the crime?

Brain is a liar.....he distorts numbers, fudges numbers, leaves out information........

 

[turtledude]

Cops don't make reports for criminals they apprehend? Interesting.

At any rate, that isn't the standard. While I'm dubious that there are 5,000 crimes of any sort prevented by firearms daily, the idiot who keeps reporting this garbage says that 5,000+ VIOLENT CRIMES a day are actively prevented by gun nuts.

when an anti gun twat starts whining about gun nuts, its obvious the twat's motivation is to harass gun owners not attack criminals and yes, when I apprehended a criminal there was no mention in the papers of me having a gun, Indeed, they only listed that Joe blow was arrested for attempted B&E. This happens all the time. no shots fired, no comment about an armed citizen.

you really ought to quit pretending your goal is public safety, You hate gun owners because most of us don't vote for say idiots like Hillary clinton