Two Ways to Help Stop Mass Shootings

[surada]

Nope……..you just stop making those public spaces gun free zones…..let normal people carry their own guns……that will keep killers from attacking those places……the Colorado theater shooter picked the one theater in the area that was a gun free zone…other theaters closer to him alllowed concealed carry…

Other Countries Had Mass Shootings. Then They Changed Their Gun Laws. (Published 2022)

Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway: All had a culture of gun ownership, and all tightened restrictions anyway. Their violence statistics now diverge sharply from those of the U.S.

www.nytimes.com

 

[surada]

Has somebody actually done that? I wouldn't make that accusation lightly.

The same socioeconomic factors shouldn't be carelessly assumed, especially when the discussion is on guns and shooters.

Those are the points that I keep alluding to as the possible causes of the problem.

Fwiw, Japan has done studies on the cause of many suicides being related to unsatisfactory living standards. That could be another way of addressing the socioeconomic issues.

For now, I'm not finished with the 'culture' of wars, death, and killing.

I hesitate to bring the abortion issue into this conversation, but I think it could be a factor, as it's described by Politicalchic.

Other countries permit abortions, stopped mass shootings and they also have universal healthcare and control their borders and illegals.

Other Countries Had Mass Shootings. Then They Changed Their Gun Laws. (Published 2022)

Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway: All had a culture of gun ownership, and all tightened restrictions anyway. Their violence statistics now diverge sharply from those of the U.S.

www.nytimes.com

 

[2aguy]

Other Countries Had Mass Shootings. Then They Changed Their Gun Laws. (Published 2022)

Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway: All had a culture of gun ownership, and all tightened restrictions anyway. Their violence statistics now diverge sharply from those of the U.S.

www.nytimes.com

And as 538 pointed out, they had mass shootings before they banned guns, and the same number after.....

Then you would have to explain these shootings in Australia, post ban and confiscation...

Man shot near children’s tutoring centre

A man has been taken to hospital following a shooting in Melbourne’s north-west.

The man, aged in his 30s, was found with gun shot wounds to his upper body in Stention Road, Kealba around 3.15pm.

Police discovered the seriously injured man outside a tutoring centre, where dozens of children were attending weekend classes.
==========
6/5/17


‘Terror’ gunman was on parole

POLICE are investigating possible terror links to a siege in which officers gunned down one man and found another dead in Melbourne’s southeast.

A senior law enforcement figure said the gunman was on parole for a criminal offence and rated as a low-risk figure of interest to counter-terror authorities.

The Herald Sun has revealed the gunman was Yacqub Khayre, a Somali refugee who was known to counter-terrorism police.

Police shot and killed Khayre, a second man was found dead in the foyer of an apartment building in Brighton and three cops sustained gunshot wounds in the bloody hostage drama.

A male caller to the Channel 7 newsroom in Melbourne said: “This is for IS” and “this is for Al-Qaeda.” The station said a woman could be heard screaming in the background.

A Victoria Police statement confirmed police are investigating whether the incident is terrorism related.

===========

March 2016....


Number of shootings in Melbourne area continues to rise

Three people will appear in court in Geelong after shots were fired between two moving cars on Thursday night, as the problem with gun-related violence in the Melbourne area continues to escalate.

The shooting at Geelong and another separate incident at Frankston brings to 10 the number of shootings in the Melbourne and Geelong areas since February 2.

Three people were arrested after shots were fired between two moving cars just before 6:30pm at Norlane.
--------

4/28/16 gang shooting in Perth


No Cookies | Perth Now

tensions had since risen between the Rebels and the Coffin Cheaters, he said.


“That’s something that I cannot elaborate on further at this time,” Det Insp Fyfe said.

“We know both gangs were there.

“The offender or offenders, I do not believe they are a threat to the community in general.”

He said police were yet to identify a suspect, but were speaking with the two surviving victims.

Det Insp Fyfe said at least eight shots were fired from two different types of guns, one of which was a semi-automatic, and one bullet went through a car in the street, so it was fortunate no innocent bystanders were hurt.

4/28/16 port arthur shooting with assault rifle..

Man found shot in Port Arthur

Port Arthur Police are investigating a shooting at Dewalt and W. 14th Street. Police got the call at about 10:45 p.m. Thursday. When they arrived on the scene they found a 29-year-old man laying outside a car that was riddled with bullets. The man had a gunshot wound to the leg and was taken to Christus Southeast Texas St. Elizabeth in Beaumont. His injuries are not life-threatening.

Police say they believe the gun used was some sort of an assault rifle. There is no word on any suspects at this time.

----------------------
4/29/16....

'This isn't a random shooting': Man targeted in Sydney killing

A gunman is at large after a "targeted" shooting in Sydney's south-west that has left one man dead and two other people injured.

---------------------
Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

25 January 1996 – Hillcrest murders – Peter May shot and killed his three children, his estranged wife and her parents in the Brisbane suburb of Hillcrest before killing himself.[54]

• 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.
• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.
• 
  
  • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
• 
  
  • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]
• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.
• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]
• 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[citation needed]
• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]
• 
  
  • 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[131]
• 
  
  • 10 September 2015 – Karin Lock was shot dead in a McDonald's restaurant in the Gold Coast by her ex-husband Stephen Lock, who then turned the gun on himself and shot himself dead.[140][141][142]
• 
  
  • 7 March 2016 - Finks bikie gang member Wayne Williams armed himself with an AK 47 rifle and shot and killed Michael Bassal and shot and wounded his brothers Terry Bassal and Mark Bassal outside an industrial building in the suburb of Ingleburn Sydney. Williams then barricaded himself inside the building and took three hostages, resulting in a siege and stand off with police. He later released the three hostages and shot himself dead. The shootings were committed as a result of a business deal gone wrong.[citation needed]

• 29 April 2016 - A gunman opened fire inside the Centro shopping centre in Bankstown, Sydney. He shot and killed convicted criminal Walid Ahmad, shot and wounded a man who was with Ahmad, and also wounded a woman who was an innocent bystander. The shooting was targeted and was committed as a result of an ongoing feud between two rival Middle Eastern organised crime gangs.[144]

• 7 June 2017 - 2017 Brighton siege. Somali immigrant Yacqub Khayre took a female prostitute hostage in a serviced apartment complex in the suburb of Brighton in Melbourne and then shot dead the complex clerk Nick Hao. He enticed police to the complex and made references to Islamic terrorist groups before dying in a shoot-out with police with three police officers wounded.[153]

 

[2aguy]

Other countries permit abortions, stopped mass shootings and they also have universal healthcare and control their borders and illegals.

Other Countries Had Mass Shootings. Then They Changed Their Gun Laws. (Published 2022)

Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway: All had a culture of gun ownership, and all tightened restrictions anyway. Their violence statistics now diverge sharply from those of the U.S.

www.nytimes.com

Britain...had a mass public shooting once every 10 years before they banned guns...after they banned guns.....they have had one mass public shooting about 1 every 10 years....

Cumbria shooting..... 13 killed

Plymouth shooting, 6 killed

The only reason they have universal healthcare......they use Americans with guns to keep them safe from other European Countries and Russians....they use American businesses to create new technologies, and they use American medical and pharmacuetical companies for their medical and drug advances...which they then extort from American businesses

Before you use places like Britain and Australia, you should tell them to stop hiding behind Americans with guns....

Also, their healthcare systems are really, really bad, running out of money and they can't keep doctors and nurses who don't want to go to school for years and years to get paid like Civil Servants...

 

[2aguy]

Other countries permit abortions, stopped mass shootings and they also have universal healthcare and control their borders and illegals.

Other Countries Had Mass Shootings. Then They Changed Their Gun Laws. (Published 2022)

Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway: All had a culture of gun ownership, and all tightened restrictions anyway. Their violence statistics now diverge sharply from those of the U.S.

www.nytimes.com

Canada?

They have 38 million people and about 1 mass public shooting every few years...

We have over 330 million people....

We had 6 in 2021

2 in 2020

10 in 2019......

Canada?

Mass public shooting 2014...9 killed

Mass public shooting 2017....6 killed

Mass public shooting in 2018..... 3 killed

Mass public shooting in 2020....23 killed, more than in the Texas school shooting....

Dittos....they had mass shootings before and they still have them...in fact, criminals in Canada are gunning up to protect their drug trade...

Firearms too easy to get​

Marc Alain, a professor at the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières and a researcher with the Centre of International Comparative Criminology, says one of the biggest drivers of gun violence is how readily available handguns have become in Quebec and throughout Canada.

------

Maria Mourani, a criminologist who has studied Montreal street gangs and written about organized crime in Quebec and around the world, says she's not surprised by the recent rise in gun violence.

Mourani says she started to notice an uptick in shootings last fall, but things have escalated in the last couple months.

"When we have shootings it means there are conflicts between different criminal groups," she said. "Fights over territory, over drugs, unpaid debts…sometimes it's just two people who disagree."

She says an ongoing war between rival gangs, the Profit Boys in Rivière-des-Prairies and Zone 43 from Montréal-Nord, is causing a lot of the bloodshed.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/gun-violence-explained-by-criminologists-1.6132114





CityNews



Part of the problem is the proliferation of guns. Although Canada has some of the strictest gun laws in the Western world, with Bill C-21 poised to make them even stricter, getting a gun has never been easier for some segments of the population, namely criminals.

“It’s not hard. They’re everywhere,” says Dwayne Beckford from behind a glass partition.

Beckford is currently remanded on gun charges at Toronto East Detention Centre. In his late 30s, he has spent most of his adult life behind bars
-------
“Everybody has them, like I said. It is scary how much there are, how easily accessible they are. Kids have them.”

Convicted of gun-related charges in the past, he recalls getting a gun was as easy as walking a dog. “They’d be cheaply bought, or just handed to you by guys in the neighbourhood.”

“Everybody has a gun these days. You talk to some guys that can easily give you what you want – to borrow, or hold, or buy.”
-----
“It’s like, ‘Yeah, here’s $80. You go do what you’ve got to do with it and come back.’ So they’re not even worried about getting caught with the weapon with X amount of bodies on it. That doesn’t even matter anymore,” he explains.

“I could find a gun in a couple of hours,” Wilson says, despite years outside of the game.

“We are seeing more firearms in the street, deadlier than we have seen before,” says Inspector Joe Matthews, the head of Toronto Police’s Guns and Gangs Unit.

In 2009, there were 259 shootings in Toronto resulting in 70 injuries and deaths. Last year, that number jumped to 462 shootings and 217 injuries and deaths. For the past five years, Toronto has witnessed more than 400 shootings a year.
--------
“The fact that innocent people are getting hit, children are getting hit. These are things we used to care about. There was a moral compass, even though we were extremely violent. There was a method to the madness. I can’t wrap my head around why they would allow it to get to the way that it’s getting, where now, the violence can spill over into their safe communities and zones.”

The end result is broken communities, broken families and lives lived in fear.

“You have people who have been terrified by people in their community, terrorized by people. So they’re afraid,” explains Fox outside the bar where her son was killed. “They’re afraid to say anything … But I mean, it has to stop somewhere. Right?”

==============



Growing gun violence in Toronot..



By the end of 2019, more than 760 people had been shot in the city, 44 of whom were killed, according to Toronto Police. That's triple the number of shooting victims in the city in 2014.

Canada has tighter gun laws than in the U.S. and suffers much less gun crime, so for many citizens, the sharp rise in gun violence in Toronto is shocking. City officials and gun control advocates are trying to figure out why the surge is happening — and what they can do to stop it.





Toronto...

EDITORIAL: Politicians silent on street check ban increasing gun crime

The fact gang and gun violence in Toronto has skyrocketed since police were banned from doing street cheeks makes them uncomfortable, lest they be accused of racism by anti-police activists if they acknowledge it.

And so at City Hall and Queen’s Park they ignore reality, saying they’re hiring more police officers, implementing new shift schedules to more effectively deploy the force and investing more money in policing and programs to address the root causes of violence.

Despite that, since street checks were banned in 2014, the number of shootings compared to 2019 is up by 178%, victims by 218% and shooting homicides by 63%.

------

Last week, recently retired police officer Sue Fisher, on the force for almost 32 years, told the Sun’s Sue-Ann Levy that the end of street checks allowed the “bad guys to take over … there’s no longer that fear (among the criminal element.)”

Today, Fisher said, officers are often running from shooting to shooting after the fact, as opposed to doing proactive policing, like street checks, to gather intelligence to prevent shootings before they occur.





According to Canada's government statistics agency, gun violence overall rose by more than 40% in Canada between 2013 and 2017, with much of that increase driven by incidents in Toronto.

Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders says that the city's recent gun violence has been connected to gang activity.

In a press conference in August, he said the Raptors incident and the August shootings "by and large have street gang connotations to them," pointing to the gang membership of the victims and those arrested. There is a thriving gang culture in Toronto centered on the illegal drug trade, largely in the city's poorer outer suburbs.


LILLEY: Gun in cop cruiser shows why bans don’t work with criminals

Ali Showbeg is now the poster child for why Justin Trudeau’s proposed gun bans simply won’t work.

If you haven’t heard of Showbeg, maybe you’ve heard of what he did. After being arrested for impaired driving on Oct. 27 in Toronto, Showbeg was caught on camera maneuvering himself to the point where he popped a handgun out of his clothing and dropped it right in his crotch.

Thank goodness the man was clearly intoxicated and not in a mood for fighting or things could have been much worse for the officers transporting him. As in, they could have been dead.
-----
As Joe Warmington reported when the event became public, Showbeg was not exactly a stranger to police. He was arrested and charged with attempted murder in 2005 for an incident that saw a car shot up in Toronto’s north end.

In 2006, he faced firearms charges that resulted in a lifetime gun ban.

So how, given that he is subject to a lifetime gun ban, did Ali Showbeg get a gun and then get that gun into the back of a squad car?

I mean, surely he would have known he was banned from owning a gun. Surely he would have known he has never taken the required safety course and passed the test to get a gun licence. So how could he have gotten a gun?

The same way the 38 year-old did when he was a much younger 23 year-old. He bought it illegally.

Toronto left reeling after long weekend gun violence



Officials in Toronto say more will be done to reduce gun violence after 11 people were shot, two fatally, over a holiday weekend.

The weekend of violence included a deadly shooting on Queen Street, a commercial artery, that killed two men and left one woman wounded.

The shooting happened on Saturday just before 8pm local time (12am GMT).

Gun violence in Canada's largest city appears to be taking place at a higher rate than normal.

 

[Donald H]

This:


Now, before you go thinking I was saying YOU liked watching little kids get slaughtered, let me clarify that I was NOT saying that. I was just noting how easily gun enthusiasts drift over into their HOBBY even when the topic is related to the slaughter of little kids.

I didn't imagine you were accusing me.

I understand it's a means of psychologically dissociating oneself from the horrors that are connected to the object of their affection (guns, in this case). It gives one a sense of "control" by being able to dispassionately discuss gun specs and not have to think about little kids whose heads are so mangled by a bullet that their parents have to give DNA samples to identify them.

I wouldn't get into gun specs if not for the talking points of others. There's nothing to gain by ignoring any talking points, no matter how offensive they be.

I know you are as disgusted by this horror as I am. So I understand the temptation to want to get away from it as soon as possible. Think about things that make one comfortable. Talk about "gun specs" and not blood.

I'm trying to direct the discussion in a direction I feel is applicable and could bear fruit. It's being resisted for obvious reasons but those who take part here are going to have to hear it. But I am obliged to hear them too.

Unless you don't have a passport I will suggest you tell me the fundamental differences between us and the Finns, the Brits, the Belgians, the Dutch, the German, the French, the Spanish, the Swedes...

I'm a Canadian. That which applies to this discussion would be a difference in the frequency of America's wars. This is speaking directly to the point I'm attempting to make here. Michael Moore has been making the point for years, and did so admirably well with his award winning, Bowling for Columbine.

In fact countries with our standard of living and our general "values" don't have the problem WE have. The difference isn't some socioeconomic thing. But I'll leave you to figure out what the difference is.

I think 'socioeconomic' fits the description of the problem perfectly. We may have an understanding difference in the meaning. Mor explanation later if you ask.

The abortion debate is a cannard. The folks who are often the most pro-life are often also PRO-GUN. That's a sickness. It belies the fact that it really isn't a "religious" conviction for them. They deny their Savior's exhortation to NOT live by the sword while they claim they are acting in accordance with God's will by defending the pre-born.

I don't have any authority to exclude it. You don't have to tell a Canadian about canards.
The 'god's' will could be introduced as a part of the problem, so we touch all the bases.

But once born those kids are on their own because the pro-life crowd isn't going to vote for more welfare!

Pro Life is a joke. They don't care about the living. They care about control. Controlling women's bodies is one more lever of control. Their own faith is a joke, even to them.

I don't care to get that far off-topic, even though I can see some relevance to this discussion.

 

[2aguy]

I didn't imagine you were accusing me.

I wouldn't get into gun specs if not for the talking points of others. There's nothing to gain by ignoring any talking points, no matter how offensive they be.

I'm trying to direct the discussion in a direction I feel is applicable and could bear fruit. It's being resisted for obvious reasons but those who take part here are going to have to hear it. But I am obliged to hear them too.

I'm a Canadian. That which applies to this discussion would be a difference in the frequency of America's wars. This is speaking directly to the point I'm attempting to make here. Michael Moore has been making the point for years, and did so admirably well with his award winning, Bowling for Columbine.

I think 'socioeconomic' fits the description of the problem perfectly. We may have an understanding difference in the meaning. Mor explanation later if you ask.

I don't have any authority to exclude it. You don't have to tell a Canadian about canards.
The 'god's' will could be introduced as a part of the problem, so we touch all the bases.

I don't care to get that far off-topic, even though I can see some relevance to this discussion.

Do you understand that he lied in Bowling for Columbine? That he deliberately lied about Charlton Heston, deliberately edited his speech and lied about it.....lied about other key elements?

Lies are all you fascists have..

 

[Donald H]

Other countries permit abortions, stopped mass shootings and they also have universal healthcare and control their borders and illegals.

Other Countries Had Mass Shootings. Then They Changed Their Gun Laws. (Published 2022)

Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway: All had a culture of gun ownership, and all tightened restrictions anyway. Their violence statistics now diverge sharply from those of the U.S.

www.nytimes.com

My part here in this conversation is on the 'culture' of wars, killing, and death in America. All of your other issues are insignificant in comparison.

You must know by now my position and Michael Moore's position.

Rebut it but don't fear it.

 

[surada]

My part here in this conversation is on the 'culture' of wars, killing, and death in America. All of your other issues are insignificant in comparison.

You must know by now my position and Michael Moore's position.

Rebut it but don't fear it.

I don't follow Michael Moore.

 

[Donald H]

Do you understand that he lied in Bowling for Columbine? That he deliberately lied about Charlton Heston, deliberately edited his speech and lied about it.....lied about other key elements?

Allow him a little artistic license. The South Park skit could be easily characterized as lies, but it was hilarious and hugely effective to his audience.

Lies are all you fascists have..

That represents your inability to face the issue. Keep it up and you'll be ignored.

 

[Donald H]

I don't follow Michael Moore.

You fear the conversation that I'm trying to promote. It's never going to be easy for Americans but somebody will have to be first.

In fact, the encouraging point that was made was by 2Aguy himself when he compromised the gun lobby's position.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Do you understand that he lied in Bowling for Columbine? That he deliberately lied about Charlton Heston, deliberately edited his speech and lied about it.....lied about other key elements?

Lies are all you fascists have..

The accusation of "Lies" is apparently all you guys have.

Literally ANYTHING that is said that DOESN'T come to the conclusion that more guns = GOOD! you will decree as a "lie".

It makes having nuanced discussions with you folks impossible, which is why I have stopped and just mock now. You guys don't care about facts, you don't care about science, you pick and choose those things which you like the most and you call everything else a "lie".

Meanwhile America has a mass shooting every week or so. When it happens you guys try to find some way to classify it as something else! AS IF THAT MATTERS!!

America has the highest per capita rate of gun ownership and the highest rate of gun homicides in the developed world.

THAT'S ALL BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS. 100% YOUR WIN! You won! Now collect your prizes which are piles of dead kids so mangled that they require DNA testing to identify them.

You want guns? This is your world. You got 'em.

Enjoy 'em.

And the VERY SECOND ANY of you express "thoughts and prayers" or "care" about the families of the victims be prepared for people to mock you.

 

[Donald H]

The accusation of "Lies" is apparently all you guys have.

Literally ANYTHING that is said that DOESN'T come to the conclusion that more guns = GOOD! you will decree as a "lie".

It makes having nuanced discussions with you folks impossible, which is why I have stopped and just mock now. You guys don't care about facts, you don't care about science, you pick and choose those things which you like the most and you call everything else a "lie".

Meanwhile America has a mass shooting every week or so. When it happens you guys try to find some way to classify it as something else! AS IF THAT MATTERS!!

America has the highest per capita rate of gun ownership and the highest rate of gun homicides in the developed world.

THAT'S ALL BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS. 100% YOUR WIN! You won! Now collect your prizes which are piles of dead kids so mangled that they require DNA testing to identify them.

You want guns? This is your world. You got 'em.

Enjoy 'em.

And the VERY SECOND ANY of you express "thoughts and prayers" or "care" about the families of the victims be prepared for people to mock you.

Attacking him or them is not an effective approach. You'll have to learn to bear the frustration or back away.

If anything, 2Aguy is the only one of the pro-gunners on this board to have made a compromising contribution.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Attacking him or them is not an effective approach. You'll have to learn to bear the frustration of back away.

Sure, I could do that. Which is what bullies usually want. But my country is being held hostage to gun enthusiasts who are all too poorly trained in probabilities to understand how they are actually part of the problem.

If anything, 2Aguy is the only one of the pro-gunners on this board to have made a compromising contribution.

I must have missed that. Usually he's pretty aggressive on his pro-gun stance.

If so that's a good sign.

Unfortunately the time is coming where "compromise" is going to be too hard. The side that his horrified by watching kids get mangled by guns so badly that they require DNA testing to identify them is getting really pissed and the side that is terrified that another pile of dead kids will threaten their ABILITY TO HAVE MORE GUNS is having to retrench further and further into a position where they seem to actively ignore the HORRORS to defend their hobby.

I'm at the point now where I get tired of hearing about "law abiding gun owners", mainly because they are part of the problem. They are the ones that are keeping our country awash in guns. And the more guns they get the higher the probability that those guns will be used either against their own family (as the studies show) or get stolen and wind up in the hands of people who will use it against innocent victims.

I honestly wish we'd show the mangled bodies after every shooting on prime-time TV. To show everyone what we are really talking about here. The pro-gun folks will pitch a fit because they know exactly what will happen next.

So we hide the truth. We show videos of desperate parents in Texas screaming at police to go in and save their babies but we bleep out the bad words. Why? Because we are more terrified of bad words than we are of kids dying.

Show us the truth of this debate. Let us make a decision based on the buckets of blood.

 

[Donald H]

Sure, I could do that. Which is what bullies usually want. But my country is being held hostage to gun enthusiasts who are all too poorly trained in probabilities to understand how they are actually part of the problem.



I must have missed that. Usually he's pretty aggressive on his pro-gun stance.

If so that's a good sign.

Unfortunately the time is coming where "compromise" is going to be too hard. The side that his horrified by watching kids get mangled by guns so badly that they require DNA testing to identify them is getting really pissed and the side that is terrified that another pile of dead kids will threaten their ABILITY TO HAVE MORE GUNS is having to retrench further and further into a position where they seem to actively ignore the HORRORS to defend their hobby.

I'm at the point now where I get tired of hearing about "law abiding gun owners", mainly because they are part of the problem. They are the ones that are keeping our country awash in guns. And the more guns they get the higher the probability that those guns will be used either against their own family (as the studies show) or get stolen and wind up in the hands of people who will use it against innocent victims.

I honestly wish we'd show the mangled bodies after every shooting on prime-time TV. To show everyone what we are really talking about here. The pro-gun folks will pitch a fit because they know exactly what will happen next.

So we hide the truth. We show videos of desperate parents in Texas screaming at police to go in and save their babies but we bleep out the bad words. Why? Because we are more terrified of bad words than we are of kids dying.

Show us the truth of this debate. Let us make a decision based on the buckets of blood.

Michael Moore's main point is well known but it's being completely ignored, except for the hate that is being expressed toward him for bringing it to light.

For an idea on something productive in the meantime, until some Americans stop fearing the truth:

The AR-15's and the large capacity magazines facilitate the large number of children killed by a shooter who has that ambition.

That's a fact!
I don't know what to do about the problem.

Why are you avoiding a discussion on Michael Moore's position?

You seem to be genuinely concerned about the mass slaughter of children.

Am I wrong about that?

 

[Hollie]

The accusation of "Lies" is apparently all you guys have.

Literally ANYTHING that is said that DOESN'T come to the conclusion that more guns = GOOD! you will decree as a "lie".

It makes having nuanced discussions with you folks impossible, which is why I have stopped and just mock now. You guys don't care about facts, you don't care about science, you pick and choose those things which you like the most and you call everything else a "lie".

Meanwhile America has a mass shooting every week or so. When it happens you guys try to find some way to classify it as something else! AS IF THAT MATTERS!!

America has the highest per capita rate of gun ownership and the highest rate of gun homicides in the developed world.

THAT'S ALL BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS. 100% YOUR WIN! You won! Now collect your prizes which are piles of dead kids so mangled that they require DNA testing to identify them.

You want guns? This is your world. You got 'em.

Enjoy 'em.

And the VERY SECOND ANY of you express "thoughts and prayers" or "care" about the families of the victims be prepared for people to mock you.

Pretty selective outrage. Typical for the wailing gun grabber types.

The Biden / leftist democrat sponsored child smuggling and Make Mexican Cartels Rich crime syndicates resulted in something like 100,000 drug overdose deaths in the last calendar year.

Care to offer your "thoughts and prayers"?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Pretty selective outrage. Typical for the wailing gun grabber types.

The Biden / leftist democrat sponsored child smuggling and Make Mexican Cartels Rich crime syndicates resulted in something like 100,000 drug overdose deaths in the last calendar year.

Care to offer your "thoughts and prayers"?

I don't offer thoughts and prayers. That's your gig. Thoughts are for those who don't want to DO anything and prayers are just oral onanism to make one feel better about their inactivity.

"Selective outrage"? So you aren't outraged by slaughters of little kids? Good to know that only the most stable and mentally healthy people like guns!

 

[Hollie]

I don't offer thoughts and prayers. That's your gig. Thoughts are for those who don't want to DO anything and prayers are just oral onanism to make one feel better about their inactivity.

"Selective outrage"? So you aren't outraged by slaughters of little kids? Good to know that only the most stable and mentally healthy people like guns!

I've offered possible solutions in other threads. You offer shrill screeching but nothing more than "people who own guns are bad"

So you are OK with the Biden / Leftist drug smuggling and child trafficking syndicate?

I'll offer my thoughts and prayers.

 

[2aguy]

The accusation of "Lies" is apparently all you guys have.

Literally ANYTHING that is said that DOESN'T come to the conclusion that more guns = GOOD! you will decree as a "lie".

It makes having nuanced discussions with you folks impossible, which is why I have stopped and just mock now. You guys don't care about facts, you don't care about science, you pick and choose those things which you like the most and you call everything else a "lie".

Meanwhile America has a mass shooting every week or so. When it happens you guys try to find some way to classify it as something else! AS IF THAT MATTERS!!

America has the highest per capita rate of gun ownership and the highest rate of gun homicides in the developed world.

THAT'S ALL BECAUSE OF YOU GUYS. 100% YOUR WIN! You won! Now collect your prizes which are piles of dead kids so mangled that they require DNA testing to identify them.

You want guns? This is your world. You got 'em.

Enjoy 'em.

And the VERY SECOND ANY of you express "thoughts and prayers" or "care" about the families of the victims be prepared for people to mock you.

No...we do not have a mass public shooting every week...that is a lie....

Mother Jones Mass Public Shooting Data Base had 6 mass public shootings in 2021.....as a left wing liar, even you can do the math and know that there are 52 weeks in a year....now use your fingers and toes and tell us what that means for your claim there is a mass public shooting every week...

2 in 2020

10 in 2019

 

[2aguy]

Pretty selective outrage. Typical for the wailing gun grabber types.

The Biden / leftist democrat sponsored child smuggling and Make Mexican Cartels Rich crime syndicates resulted in something like 100,000 drug overdose deaths in the last calendar year.

Care to offer your "thoughts and prayers"?

251 gun murders in democrat party Chicago since Jan. 1.........mostly young black men.....

Silence from the morons like him...