U.S. Fracking's Larger Implications

[Underhill]

So playing cards at the Daytona 500 is stupid, but according to you, it's perfectly acceptable for street racers to show up at my weekly card game.

Now you are just being cute.

Still stinging from my original and valid idea about how to keep people from fracking under nearby property?

Hey, like I said, job security because of the people who don't get this, you don't have to be ashamed that you fall into that category just because of your inexperience in the field, just as I might be with coal stuff.

It's never the companies fault for anything.

Wrong again. I blew up a frack job once upon a time, they are easy to see, it didn't require landowners running around with mason jars of their poor well water quality for me to fix it. I just did. Industry spec to do those types of things, do whatever is required by the regulations to get it done. Don't like your regulations? I recommend letter writing campaign. Just make sure to find yourself someone who knows something about this stuff first, you wouldn't want to go waving around a copy of the EPA study as "proof" and have someone like me working for the other side.

I am actually quite happy with our current regulations in NYS. But the oil and gas industry is hard at work to get rid of them...

If the landowners want to drill on their own land after fracking started they are to blame if their wells are shit. And if the drilling company is allowed to drill in an area where there are water wells, it is the fault of regulators for allowing them.

You are a company man through and through.

Not any more. But don't feel bad about it, fortunately for you the odds are near astronomical that nothing bad will happen to your water supply, fracking or no fracking. Rejoice in the good news! At the very least you know not to drill your water well down 10,000' to the Marcellus!

Yay.

 

[Mr. H.]

I am actually quite happy with our current regulations in NYS. But the oil and gas industry is hard at work to get rid of them...

Yoko Ono being your go-to expert on the issues...

 

[RGR]

I am actually quite happy with our current regulations in NYS. But the oil and gas industry is hard at work to get rid of them...

But of course. When a state can benefit on one hand with near zero effort/cost on the other (how much natural gas does New York state use versus produce?) it is easy to be happy when the game is all benefit.

Limit the state to only the natural gas it produces, and the consequences which follow, and opinions tend to change. Of course, that will never happen, but it is a wonderful idea to make people face the consequences of their decisions. NY does about as well ignoring their energy reality as California does, fortunately for them other states don't specialize in financial shenanigans, high class banksterism, playing revolving doors with government to make sure that defrauding the working guy stays legal in America, that sort of stuff. Some people still work for a living.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Just out of curiosity.

How many of you have experience in the petroleum field?

 

[RGR]

I am actually quite happy with our current regulations in NYS. But the oil and gas industry is hard at work to get rid of them...

Yoko Ono being your go-to expert on the issues...

I always like it when celebrities get involved. Makes it so much easier to spot the lemmings, they fall all over themselves in the rush to confuse celebrity with functioning neurons.

 

[Underhill]

Just out of curiosity.

How many of you have experience in the petroleum field?

I live in a petroleum field. Am surrounded by oil wells. Grew up working on pipelines during the summer as a teenager.

But I do not currently work in the field.

 

[Underhill]

I am actually quite happy with our current regulations in NYS. But the oil and gas industry is hard at work to get rid of them...

But of course. When a state can benefit on one hand with near zero effort/cost on the other (how much natural gas does New York state use versus produce?) it is easy to be happy when the game is all benefit.

Limit the state to only the natural gas it produces, and the consequences which follow, and opinions tend to change. Of course, that will never happen, but it is a wonderful idea to make people face the consequences of their decisions. NY does about as well ignoring their energy reality as California does, fortunately for them other states don't specialize in financial shenanigans, high class banksterism, playing revolving doors with government to make sure that defrauding the working guy stays legal in America, that sort of stuff. Some people still work for a living.

Brilliant. By that logic about 4 states would have enough natural gas and oil and the rest would shrivel up and die.

 

[Mr. H.]

Just out of curiosity.

How many of you have experience in the petroleum field?

36 years here. But it's a huge industry. Nobody know everything about everything.
Except maybe Jiggs Casey

 

[RGR]

Just out of curiosity.

How many of you have experience in the petroleum field?

Since before I graduated from college in petroleum engineering.

13+ in the field, post grad work, 16+ in research, just changed positions to something more akin to senior analyst.

 

[RGR]

By that logic about 4 states would have enough natural gas and oil and the rest would shrivel up and die.

Not at all. But the energy beggars certainly don't get to dictate to anyone else what the cost is of the benefit they expect. Want more natural gas than you can produce? Fine. Then talk to those who have a surplus they are willing to sell, and understand that part of the reason they have a surplus is because they know what they are doing, and energy beggars certainly don't get to second guess those who know what they are doing.

 

[Underhill]

By that logic about 4 states would have enough natural gas and oil and the rest would shrivel up and die.

Not at all. But the energy beggars certainly don't get to dictate to anyone else what the cost is of the benefit they expect. Want more natural gas than you can produce? Fine. Then talk to those who have a surplus they are willing to sell, and understand that part of the reason they have a surplus is because they know what they are doing, and energy beggars certainly don't get to second guess those who know what they are doing.

There's a bit more to it than "knowing what they are doing".

You know, like how much oil and gas is in the ground.

And obviously, the majority of our oil comes from a few states.

 

[RGR]

There's a bit more to it than "knowing what they are doing".

You know, like how much oil and gas is in the ground.

Absolutely. And states which import tons of energy so they can pretend to be not associated with those dirty/nasty industries but HAVE that energy (like California and New York) certainly aren't in that category.

And obviously, the majority of our oil comes from a few states.

Yep. So the game for a state is to hope it doesn't have energy resources under its land, then they can benefit without a cost higher than just paying for someone to provide them with the product. It is the hypocrites who need the motivation to be less hypocritical.

 

[Mr. H.]

Getting back to "larger implications"...

Could fracking solve China's energy problems?

We need a solution for energy production that can displace the rapid growth of coal use today. Switching from coal to natural gas could reduce the growth of China's emissions by more than 50 percent and give the world more time to bring down the cost of solar and wind energy to levels that are affordable for poorer countries.

 

[Mr. H.]

U.S. oil boom leaves OPEC sidelined from demand growth - Yahoo! Finance

LONDON (Reuters) - Rising U.S. shale oil production will help meet most of the world's new oil demand in the next five years, even if the global economy picks up steam, leaving little room for OPEC to lift output without risking lower prices, the West's energy agency said.

 

[Mr. H.]

It appears that successful industrial endeavors are doing more to lower gasoline prices than our unsuccessful President...

WTI Crude Falls a Fourth Day on U.S. Supply; IEA Sees Shale Boom - Businessweek

West Texas Intermediate traded near the lowest level in more than a week on forecasts that U.S. supplies climbed to the highest since at least 1931 amid production the IEA said is “transformative” for world markets.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Getting back to "larger implications"...

Could fracking solve China's energy problems?

We need a solution for energy production that can displace the rapid growth of coal use today. Switching from coal to natural gas could reduce the growth of China's emissions by more than 50 percent and give the world more time to bring down the cost of solar and wind energy to levels that are affordable for poorer countries.

I don't think it's a very good trade off though H. The damage and chemicals the gas companies are using far far out way the damage and chemicals the coal companies used. The coal companies dug, scooped, then reclaimed and cleaned the smoke from processing it.
You don't know they were even here, and at the bottom of the trenches they dug out, little lakes formed with clear blue water which provided the best make-out spots.

The EPA picks 1 maybe 2 wells that they will check on regularly. The rest they won't even inspect. China has bought a substantial part of Chesapeake Oil. We are sacrificing Ohio, Pa. and W.Va to give China a good deal on gas and oil.

I am the last hold out here in this section. Chesapeake has completely surrounded me, and now I have no choice. I took their contract to my lawyer this morning. It is a horrendous contract, and there is no doubt in my mind that they will be destroying my well and the creek that runs through the property.

If I don't sign, they can execute a rule of capture, and suck my gas right out with the neighbors. If they foul the creek, they can do that right around the bend and it will kill all of my animals when it gets here. My house would never sell if the creek is ruined. We would have to just abandon it.
The perks are the $4,000 per acre, and free gas, and royalties. Gas royalties are nice, but what they have hit here is oil. All of a sudden, royalty checks are coming in at 400,000.00 a check.
It is a game of roulette now. Is the oil on red or black. Will it be our unit that is sitting on it or the one next to ours?
My husband's starting to look like Jed Clampett.

 

[Mr. H.]

Getting back to "larger implications"...

Could fracking solve China's energy problems?

We need a solution for energy production that can displace the rapid growth of coal use today. Switching from coal to natural gas could reduce the growth of China's emissions by more than 50 percent and give the world more time to bring down the cost of solar and wind energy to levels that are affordable for poorer countries.

I don't think it's a very good trade off though H. The damage and chemicals the gas companies are using far far out way the damage and chemicals the coal companies used. The coal companies dug, scooped, then reclaimed and cleaned the smoke from processing it.
You don't know they were even here, and at the bottom of the trenches they dug out, little lakes formed with clear blue water which provided the best make-out spots.

The EPA picks 1 maybe 2 wells that they will check on regularly. The rest they won't even inspect. China has bought a substantial part of Chesapeake Oil. We are sacrificing Ohio, Pa. and W.Va to give China a good deal on gas and oil.

I am the last hold out here in this section. Chesapeake has completely surrounded me, and now I have no choice. I took their contract to my lawyer this morning. It is a horrendous contract, and there is no doubt in my mind that they will be destroying my well and the creek that runs through the property.

If I don't sign, they can execute a rule of capture, and suck my gas right out with the neighbors. If they foul the creek, they can do that right around the bend and it will kill all of my animals when it gets here. My house would never sell if the creek is ruined. We would have to just abandon it.
The perks are the $4,000 per acre, and free gas, and royalties. Gas royalties are nice, but what they have hit here is oil. All of a sudden, royalty checks are coming in at 400,000.00 a check.
It is a game of roulette now. Is the oil on red or black. Will it be our unit that is sitting on it or the one next to ours?
My husband's starting to look like Jed Clampett.

I don't think the term is "rule of capture", but "forced pooling". And if there is no actual production from your property, you will still share in the revenues derived from your neighbors' properties.

And you are sadly mistaken regarding "damage and chemicals".

Enjoy your paycheck while you continue to spread lies and fear.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I thought we were discussing Fracking. I didn't realize till I went back through the thread that this issue is you baby. If I offended you then, tough shit.

Because if fracking is your baby, then I'm your baby mama. While more gas, more oil, more jobs, is great, we're not going to pretend from a far that there are no consequences to pay. We are dealing with the problems daily, we live on this land. We've been here before. We live through the good AND the bad.
We are aware that at least one road a day is closed here just from overturned trucks spilling their loads. Our roads are being destroyed quicker than Chesapeake can repair them. Gas well explosions, oil slicks, and they are just getting started.
Here is part 1;
Our little towns here are so depressed from the unemployment and the closing of our mills by the EPA, they can no longer pay the firemen, police or even keep the street lights on at night, so you aren't going to tell me about the blessing of industry. We are thankful for our gas and oil. We were dying.
And here is part 2:
We were happy to see the creek become live again after being fouled for 15 years, a consequence of industry. (regulated, oops, sulfur seepage.) Fear of it then, fear of it now. We don't hang our hopes on Gov. regulations. We know the risks.

I used to play with shale as a kid. Tap the side and you can peel it away in layers. It's very frail. Ohio rests on shale. Shale is our bedrock. The gas and oil underneath the shale is what prevents the shale from crumbling under the weight of the earth above it where are houses sit.

We understand the consequences of removing the pressure that the oil and gas exert on the shale.
We will fix our foundations and cracks in our walls when they remove the gas and oil and crush the shale underneath our feet. The tremors have already started.

I set the newspaper beside my computer and listed the chemicals that the gas company had just received permission to pump into our soil. I'll look for it and re post it here. Then you can point out for me any that aren't harmful. We grow your food in this soil. Your hamburger dined on the corn we grew here. Your tofu used to be our soy crop.

There is no legality, no regulation, no propaganda that we haven't fully researched.
You aren't going to tell me anything that we haven't considered. Our lives, our homes are here.

And I have no reason to lie. I will both benefit and pay for the gas and oil they will be extracting from under my land.
You're rude.

 

[Mr. H.]

LOL you can talk about anything in this thread I don't mind.

 

[RGR]

The damage and chemicals the gas companies are using far far out way the damage and chemicals the coal companies used.

You mean all the water contained in the frack job is bad? Because they sure been having a tough time finding the chemicals used in frack jobs anyplace except a mile or two underground.

The EPA picks 1 maybe 2 wells that they will check on regularly. The rest they won't even inspect. China has bought a substantial part of Chesapeake Oil. We are sacrificing Ohio, Pa. and W.Va to give China a good deal on gas and oil.

The gas powers New York City, not Beijing. And the state inspectors inspect all the time, the EPA isn't the primary regulator of oil and gas production, thank God. And no, we aren't sacrificing anything, the landowners sign over the mineral rights to the companies so they can be extracted, not your claim of "we".

The perks are the $4,000 per acre, and free gas, and royalties. Gas royalties are nice, but what they have hit here is oil. All of a sudden, royalty checks are coming in at 400,000.00 a check.
It is a game of roulette now. Is the oil on red or black. Will it be our unit that is sitting on it or the one next to ours?
My husband's starting to look like Jed Clampett.

Good for you. Profiting from mineral rights is an American tradition. Just one hint for the unwary, make sure you aren't just giving them an option.