Unions once again throw their members under the bus

[Joe Steel]

Hostess was destroyed by vulture capitalists not union members. Just like Bain Capital did to its victims, Ripplewood Holdings gutted Hostess. They bought it, sucked money out of it and now they're running.

 

[asterism]

Unions are needed now for the same reason they were needed then. Because the wealthy will always try to use their wealth to screw the working guy.

Every. Fucking. Time.

"The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists... they're too damned greedy"- Herbert Hoover.

Your Marxist view comes with a 100% Guaranteed Fail. It's never worked once, not ever

I'm sorry, is Capitalism "working"?

I don't see it "working".

We are currently getting the pants beaten off of us by a communist country (China), so I don't think we have room to talk.

That's bullshit. Even affluent Chinese have it worse than the average American.

 

[asterism]

Hostess was destroyed by vulture capitalists not union members. Just like Bain Capital did to its victims, Ripplewood Holdings gutted Hostess. They bought it, sucked money out of it and now they're running.

Did the investors quit? No, the workers walked off the job.

 

[JoeB131]

Your Marxist view comes with a 100% Guaranteed Fail. It's never worked once, not ever

I'm sorry, is Capitalism "working"?

I don't see it "working".

We are currently getting the pants beaten off of us by a communist country (China), so I don't think we have room to talk.

That's bullshit. Even affluent Chinese have it worse than the average American.

Actually, I got to spend a couple days with an "affluent" Chinese person from one of our offices, driving her around to visit some of our vendors.

She was impressed by the fact that a city like Chicago has clean air, something that wouldn't be the case in China.

Point is, though, our corporations just can't wait to move American jobs over there, that' how much they think of China, dirty air and all.

 

[Stephanie]

they are proud and crowing about putting Hostess out of business..
links in article at site

SNIP:
Bakers Union President: We Knew Hostess Could Die

Posted by Jim Hoft on Saturday, November 17, 2012, 7:00 PM



Frank Hurt

Bakers Union President Frank Hurt released a statement yesterday after Hostess closed all of its American plants.
Hurt said the union knew Hostess could die.
They went on strike anyway and today 18,000 more Americans are out of work.
The Biz Journal reported, via RedState:


“Our members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company they have given so much to for so many years. They decided that they were not going to agree to another round of outrageous wage and benefit cuts and give up their pension only to see yet another management team fail and Wall Street vulture capitalists and ‘restructuring specialists’ walk away with untold millions of dollars.

“Throughout this long and difficult process, BCTGM members showed tremendous courage, solidarity and devotion to principle. They were well aware of the potential consequences of their actions but stood strong for dignity, justice and respect.”

Oh well, at least Frank still has a job.

from with comments
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/bakers-union-president-we-knew-hostess-could-die/

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Unions are needed now for the same reason they were needed then. Because the wealthy will always try to use their wealth to screw the working guy.

Every. Fucking. Time.

"The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists... they're too damned greedy"- Herbert Hoover.

Your Marxist view comes with a 100% Guaranteed Fail. It's never worked once, not ever

I'm sorry, is Capitalism "working"?

I don't see it "working".

We are currently getting the pants beaten off of us by a communist country (China), so I don't think we have room to talk.

We are still the world #1 economy. Obama hasn't dragged us down to #2 yet.

You need to keep up on current events, China and Vietnam dropped Communist economics for Free enterprise

 

[thereisnospoon]

Got people good wages and safe working conditions?

Oh, the horror...

You miss the good old days, don't you?

]

Unions outlived their usefulness over 100 years ago, time to say goodbye

Unions are needed now for the same reason they were needed then. Because the wealthy will always try to use their wealth to screw the working guy.

Every. Fucking. Time.

"The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists... they're too damned greedy"- Herbert Hoover.

You just keep on spewing that propaganda. It's very amusing.
You people are so worried about what everyone else is doing. What others have.
You're the equivalent to the nosy neighbor so obsessed with what others are doing, you'd leave a frying pan of hot grease on your stove so that you can run down the the street and stick your nose in the business of others. Only to come back and find your own house ablaze.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is the very same union we have at our company!!!! and they are WORTHLESS!

What's really weird to me is..that we're with the Grainmiller's union, yet we have nothing to do with food. Our company makes silicone hoses for cars, trucks, Boeing, some medical. Lol! Anyway....like i said, they are WORTHLESS!

That's alright. The Flight Attendants at US Airways are represented by a union of unrelated work.
Happens all the time. It's kind of amusing.

I recall one of the casinos in Connecticut is represented by, of all people, the UAW.

Correct. In my view as the Casino business continues to suffer due to a slow economy, the casino owners will probably turn to the unions for concessions "or else"..
Notice how casinos only in forced union states are saddled with the burden of union labor.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Im convinced that the CIO in AFL CIO stand for Communist Infiltration Operation

Oh hell yeah. Unions are nothing but collectives.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unions representing Hostess Bakery workers were warned bu the company that a job action would result in the company shutting down and seeking to liquidate assets.
The unions refused to budge and decided the company owners were bluffing. Today, 18,500 workers lost their jobs and an American Icon was put out of business by greedy union bosses.
]

Lie.

It was the members of the union who voted not to accept the contract. Not the bosses.

Because the Hedge fund that runs Hostess lied to them the last six or seven concessions they made.

You can believe that if it makes you feel better. Doesn't make it true. This is Hostess' second time in Bankruptcy in three years.
The labor costs are just too expensive for the company to compete. And sales were regional.
I enjoy their products. I grew up on Ring Dings and other Drakes/Hostess products. Quite frankly, these brands are not sold everywhere and mostly due to pricing. Hostess' labor costs cause their products to be sold at a much higher price point than that of their competitors. Hence the reason for the company wanting concessions from labor.
The bottom line...You either compete or you die. The union bosses chose "die" and 18k people got railroaded out of work. Just in time for the Holidays. Nice going, union bosses.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

More accurately, the union bosses found the way of life of the men whom they battled so diligently against better to their liking and became as corrupt as the politicians with whom they joined forces to screw the workers they claimed to represent.

Immie

Most union presidents make mid six figures.

CEO's are making 7 and 8 figures. Even when their companies fail. The president of hostess made 2.25 million when his company went into bankruptcy- twice.

Not even a close comparison...

Sure it is. Being a labor boss requires no special skills. No college degree. No experience in economics or business. No leadership. No motivational skills. No ability to see both sides of a negotiation.
When union members lose jobs, who is left standing, making the same money they did the day before? The union bosses.
Look,unions are a business. And as such, operate in their own self interest. If the scale tips in the survival of the business( union) and the need to keep members working, the business always wins out.
I had two friends that were iron workers in NYC. When they were working, they had lots of money. When they were not working which seemed to be about half the time, they struggled to make ends meet while waiting for the union to assign them more work.
I asked them why just not go and find your own work? Set up a shop in your garage and make stuff for people? They said they could not go to a job that the union did not send them to. I asked how the union would know. They said that the union would make them go to the union hall a few times a week.
They said that if they worked a job that the union did not assign or a GOD FORBID, non union job, they would lose their union book.
I said to them that in my mind it didn't make sense to sit around waiting for $30 per hour when they could be working every day for $25....It was the benefits and pensions they were after.
I was like, The union doesn't pay your bills when you're not working ,does it?
I think the whole thing is just stupid. Imagine some strangers telling me I cannot work a job "just because"...I'd be like, "Fuck you..You're the one driving the Cadillac and living in a 4,000 square foot house with kids in private school while I am struggling to make my mortgage each month."
The way I see it is the union should allow the furloughed to go and find work where they needed to. The trade off is when the worker is called to go to an assigned job, they must go to that job in order to maintain their membership. But unions don't operate that way. No collective can. It must be a captive marketplace.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hostess was destroyed by vulture capitalists not union members. Just like Bain Capital did to its victims, Ripplewood Holdings gutted Hostess. They bought it, sucked money out of it and now they're running.

Oh please. Spare us the pro union propaganda talking points.

 

[thereisnospoon]

they are proud and crowing about putting Hostess out of business..
links in article at site

SNIP:
Bakers Union President: We Knew Hostess Could Die

Posted by Jim Hoft on Saturday, November 17, 2012, 7:00 PM



Frank Hurt

Bakers Union President Frank Hurt released a statement yesterday after Hostess closed all of its American plants.
Hurt said the union knew Hostess could die.
They went on strike anyway and today 18,000 more Americans are out of work.
The Biz Journal reported, via RedState:


“Our members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company they have given so much to for so many years. They decided that they were not going to agree to another round of outrageous wage and benefit cuts and give up their pension only to see yet another management team fail and Wall Street vulture capitalists and ‘restructuring specialists’ walk away with untold millions of dollars.

“Throughout this long and difficult process, BCTGM members showed tremendous courage, solidarity and devotion to principle. They were well aware of the potential consequences of their actions but stood strong for dignity, justice and respect.”

Oh well, at least Frank still has a job.

from with comments
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/bakers-union-president-we-knew-hostess-could-die/

Dignity is not going to make a mortgage payment or the monthly rent.
The fact that roughly half of the workers had crossed the picket lines and returned to work tells us this statement by the union about solidarity is solid bullshit
Event the Teamsters union leadership urged the other union's workers to go back to work.

 

[Immanuel]

[

More accurately, the union bosses found the way of life of the men whom they battled so diligently against better to their liking and became as corrupt as the politicians with whom they joined forces to screw the workers they claimed to represent.

Immie

Most union presidents make mid six figures.

CEO's are making 7 and 8 figures. Even when their companies fail. The president of hostess made 2.25 million when his company went into bankruptcy- twice.

Not even a close comparison...

Sure it is. Being a labor boss requires no special skills. No college degree. No experience in economics or business. No leadership. No motivational skills. No ability to see both sides of a negotiation.
When union members lose jobs, who is left standing, making the same money they did the day before? The union bosses.
Look,unions are a business. And as such, operate in their own self interest. If the scale tips in the survival of the business( union) and the need to keep members working, the business always wins out.
I had two friends that were iron workers in NYC. When they were working, they had lots of money. When they were not working which seemed to be about half the time, they struggled to make ends meet while waiting for the union to assign them more work.
I asked them why just not go and find your own work? Set up a shop in your garage and make stuff for people? They said they could not go to a job that the union did not send them to. I asked how the union would know. They said that the union would make them go to the union hall a few times a week.
They said that if they worked a job that the union did not assign or a GOD FORBID, non union job, they would lose their union book.
I said to them that in my mind it didn't make sense to sit around waiting for $30 per hour when they could be working every day for $25....It was the benefits and pensions they were after.
I was like, The union doesn't pay your bills when you're not working ,does it?
I think the whole thing is just stupid. Imagine some strangers telling me I cannot work a job "just because"...I'd be like, "Fuck you..You're the one driving the Cadillac and living in a 4,000 square foot house with kids in private school while I am struggling to make my mortgage each month."
The way I see it is the union should allow the furloughed to go and find work where they needed to. The trade off is when the worker is called to go to an assigned job, they must go to that job in order to maintain their membership. But unions don't operate that way. No collective can. It must be a captive marketplace.

Actually, it seems that they are pretty good at motivating thugs. They motivate the thugs to go into a business and intimidate employees until they get what they want... control of the company which they will eventually run into bankrupcy.

Immie

 

[boedicca]

Yet more proof that unions exist for the benefit of those who run the unions, not the union members themselves.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Sure it is. Being a labor boss requires no special skills. No college degree. No experience in economics or business. No leadership. No motivational skills. No ability to see both sides of a negotiation.
When union members lose jobs, who is left standing, making the same money they did the day before? The union bosses.
Look,unions are a business. And as such, operate in their own self interest. If the scale tips in the survival of the business( union) and the need to keep members working, the business always wins out.
I had two friends that were iron workers in NYC. When they were working, they had lots of money. When they were not working which seemed to be about half the time, they struggled to make ends meet while waiting for the union to assign them more work.
I asked them why just not go and find your own work? Set up a shop in your garage and make stuff for people? They said they could not go to a job that the union did not send them to. I asked how the union would know. They said that the union would make them go to the union hall a few times a week.
They said that if they worked a job that the union did not assign or a GOD FORBID, non union job, they would lose their union book.
I said to them that in my mind it didn't make sense to sit around waiting for $30 per hour when they could be working every day for $25....It was the benefits and pensions they were after.
I was like, The union doesn't pay your bills when you're not working ,does it?
I think the whole thing is just stupid. Imagine some strangers telling me I cannot work a job "just because"...I'd be like, "Fuck you..You're the one driving the Cadillac and living in a 4,000 square foot house with kids in private school while I am struggling to make my mortgage each month."
The way I see it is the union should allow the furloughed to go and find work where they needed to. The trade off is when the worker is called to go to an assigned job, they must go to that job in order to maintain their membership. But unions don't operate that way. No collective can. It must be a captive marketplace.

Why do I get the feeling you are someone who tried to get a union card at a young age and couldn't.

The problem with teh "Why don't you scab out the union at $25.00 an hour" mentality is eventually, someone else will scab you out for $20.00. Then they'll hire an illegal for $10.00 an hour. And the job will be done in a halfass way and that steel structure will probably end up collapsing on someone, but dammit, a rich asshole made money, and that was the important thing.

 

[JoeB131]

You can believe that if it makes you feel better. Doesn't make it true. This is Hostess' second time in Bankruptcy in three years.
The labor costs are just too expensive for the company to compete. And sales were regional.
I enjoy their products. I grew up on Ring Dings and other Drakes/Hostess products. Quite frankly, these brands are not sold everywhere and mostly due to pricing. Hostess' labor costs cause their products to be sold at a much higher price point than that of their competitors. Hence the reason for the company wanting concessions from labor.
The bottom line...You either compete or you die. The union bosses chose "die" and 18k people got railroaded out of work. Just in time for the Holidays. Nice going, union bosses.

Again- horseshit.

After the first bankruptcy, the Bakers union agreed to concessions that brought their wages below other workers in the industry. They agreed to benefit cuts and force reductions as well.

But like most of the things done by your Hero, Mitt ROmney, instead of taking those savings and investing them in the company, the hedge funds borrowed a shitload of money to pay their investors and themselves, leaving the company under a ton of debt...

BCTGM | Giving Thanks for Hostess Workers

The reason why they "choked" was that the company didn't buy new equipment didn't invest in developing new product. They simply borrowed and borrowed until they couldn't leverage anymore.

Kind of like that scene in Goodfellas when they burn down the bar after running up tons of debt buying swag on their credit.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You just keep on spewing that propaganda. It's very amusing.
You people are so worried about what everyone else is doing. What others have.
You're the equivalent to the nosy neighbor so obsessed with what others are doing, you'd leave a frying pan of hot grease on your stove so that you can run down the the street and stick your nose in the business of others. Only to come back and find your own house ablaze.

Sorry, man, the greed of the assholes became my business in 2008, when after getting fired because an insurance company thought the hospital was spending too much of their money saving my life, their crashing of the HOusing market wiped out half of my home and stock value.

Again, their main problem is they are too greedy. They already had plenty. They wanted more, they didn't give a shit who got hurt.

 

[Jarlaxle]

[

Sure it is. Being a labor boss requires no special skills. No college degree. No experience in economics or business. No leadership. No motivational skills. No ability to see both sides of a negotiation.
When union members lose jobs, who is left standing, making the same money they did the day before? The union bosses.
Look,unions are a business. And as such, operate in their own self interest. If the scale tips in the survival of the business( union) and the need to keep members working, the business always wins out.
I had two friends that were iron workers in NYC. When they were working, they had lots of money. When they were not working which seemed to be about half the time, they struggled to make ends meet while waiting for the union to assign them more work.
I asked them why just not go and find your own work? Set up a shop in your garage and make stuff for people? They said they could not go to a job that the union did not send them to. I asked how the union would know. They said that the union would make them go to the union hall a few times a week.
They said that if they worked a job that the union did not assign or a GOD FORBID, non union job, they would lose their union book.
I said to them that in my mind it didn't make sense to sit around waiting for $30 per hour when they could be working every day for $25....It was the benefits and pensions they were after.
I was like, The union doesn't pay your bills when you're not working ,does it?
I think the whole thing is just stupid. Imagine some strangers telling me I cannot work a job "just because"...I'd be like, "Fuck you..You're the one driving the Cadillac and living in a 4,000 square foot house with kids in private school while I am struggling to make my mortgage each month."
The way I see it is the union should allow the furloughed to go and find work where they needed to. The trade off is when the worker is called to go to an assigned job, they must go to that job in order to maintain their membership. But unions don't operate that way. No collective can. It must be a captive marketplace.

Why do I get the feeling you are someone who tried to get a union card at a young age and couldn't.

The problem with teh "Why don't you scab out the union at $25.00 an hour" mentality is eventually, someone else will scab you out for $20.00. Then they'll hire an illegal for $10.00 an hour. And the job will be done in a halfass way and that steel structure will probably end up collapsing on someone, but dammit, a rich asshole made money, and that was the important thing.

I love the hysterical, mouth-frothing hatred for anyone who tries to actually better himself, instead of tugging his forelock and saying, "ya, massa!" to whatever the union tells him.

But you're right, the union quality is worth it! Just look at Boston's Big Dig...err, wait...

 

[JoeB131]

I love the hysterical, mouth-frothing hatred for anyone who tries to actually better himself, instead of tugging his forelock and saying, "ya, massa!" to whatever the union tells him.

But you're right, the union quality is worth it! Just look at Boston's Big Dig...err, wait...

You mean the one where the private contractors purchased sub-standard materials?

Big Dig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BUt they made a profit, that was the important thing.

Massachusetts State Police searched the offices of Aggregate Industries, the largest concrete supplier for the underground portions of the project, in June 2005. They seized evidence that Aggregate delivered concrete that did not meet contract specifications. In May 2006, six employees of the company were arrested and charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States. Immediately after the arrests, Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney announced he would return $3,900 in political contributions from employees of Aggregate Industries.[37]

Hmmm... big corporations and Romney. WHy am I not suprised?