Universal Basic Income

[g5000]

you links are for other countries completely different from the US,,

they mean nothing,,

Is everyone in Alaska just sitting around on their asses? They have UBI there.

There are plenty of other examples in the US.

No one is sitting on their asses in Finland, either.

 

[progressive hunter]

Most of the deductions, exemptions, and credits in our tax code disproportionately benefit the wealthy.

What's more, quite a few industries have gotten special carveouts and loopholes which benefit them.

Not to mention the subsidies they receive. Elon Musk has received billions in subsidies both here and in China.

And finally, our regulatory regime has been rigged to prevent newcomers with better business models to break into the business sector.

Just look at the uphill battle Uber had to fight to be able to provide their rideshare business to everyone. Cabbies in every city fought tooth and nail against Uber, using longstanding laws limiting the number of vehicles allowed to charge fares.

Before Uber, a taxi medallion in NYC was worth over a million dollars because the law limited the number allowed.

After Uber won the war, medallions dropped to one-tenth their value.

So, yeah. Getting back to a level playing field is going to take some serious effort.

This is why I am constantly posting about tax expenditures. They are the worst kind of government interference in the free market and in our wallets.

they benefit people with money,,

which are the same people doing the work,,

if you think UBI is a solution to poverty youre sadly mistaken,,

the only way to cure poverty is to make the poor uncomfortable in their poverty,,

if you think handing people money with no expectation of doing something to earn it all youre going to end up with is a two tiered society filled with hate,,

 

[BluesLegend]

Smells like a mooching deadbeat Dem parasite idea to me. Why do you scum always want to take other people's money? Here's an idea, piss off!!

 

[progressive hunter]

Is everyone in Alaska just sitting around on their asses? They have UBI there.

There are plenty of other examples in the US.

No one is sitting on their asses in Finland, either.

alaska is its own thing,,

they are under ice what 8 months a yr with little job opportunities,,

as I said I think their system floats around high mineral/fossil fuel profits that go back to the people,,


that could never happen in the lower 49 where jobs are yr round,,

 

[jbander]

I don't know if you've ever heard of Milton Friedman. He was a Nobel Prize Winner and Reagan's favorite economist. I'm a huge fan of Milton Friedman. And Reagan.

Friedman was a hardcore libertarian. He was opposed to big government in every way. He was against the plethora of regulatory agencies. He was against corporate bailouts. He felt all drugs should be legalized. And so forth.

On the Fairness Doctrine: "I'm not in favor of fairness. I'm in favor of freedom. Fairness means someone has to decide what's fair."

So you can imagine how surprising it is to learn he was in favor of UBI. He called it a "negative income tax".

He discussed it in his books Capitalism and Freedom and Free to Choose.


The basic idea was to eliminate all welfare programs. They were too expensive and had massive costly government bureaucracies, and subject to too much fraud, abuse, and waste.

Instead, the poor would be given money with no strings attached to spend as they please.

This I always find humorous ,trickle down goosesteps don't trickle down, and without regulation big business and the wealthy would eat our children for their bottom line , in fact that is literally what they did when there was no or few regulations. Everything about Friedman is to transfer all the wealth to the golden few at the top and that is exactly what has happened since Reagan's first year in office, 1981. I propose using demand side economics and write law that will balance the massive amount of wealth that has been transferred to the few with this trickle down lie. , It is the workers time for the next 45 year.

 

[BluesLegend]

Dem's 'if we only jack up taxes sky high' proposal #449

 

[BluesLegend]

The problem with extremely stupid Democrats is, they refuse to consider the negative impacts of their half baked take other people's money schemes.

 

[g5000]

This I always find humorous ,trickle down goosesteps don't trickle down, and without regulation big business and the wealthy would eat our children for their bottom line , in fact that is literally what they did when there was no or few regulations. Everything about Friedman is to transfer all the wealth to the golden few at the top and that is exactly what has happened since Reagan's first year in office, 1981. I propose using demand side economics and write law that will balance the massive amount of wealth that has been transferred to the few with this trickle down lie. , It is the workers time for the next 45 year.

There are good regulations and bad regulations.

Not allowing a factory to bury toxic waste which leaks into the water table is good regulation.

The example I gave about cabbies and Uber is an example of bad regulations.

As for "the workers time", that is the whole reason Trump was able to rise to power. The middle class and the poor have been getting ripped off for a long time. But they don't know who or how.

This provides an opportunity for a demagogue to come along and point his fat little finger at a particular group and blame them for all our troubles.

Unfortunately, Trump works for the very elites who have been ripping us off.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson lived at a time where they believed the Constitution was written for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern any other. The people of that day were an industrious people who were invested in contributions to the whole. They were a moral people who had pride in their achievements. They knew restraint.

Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson would look at the tents of drug addicts getting a subsistence from cities like Portland and San Francisco and recoil in horror. That's not what they meant at all. They did not mean that people living off others should spend their time increasing their income by robbing innocent people that work for a living. Just the way welfare works.

If you want people to have UBI the way the founders envisioned it, you need the people they envisioned would benefit.

 

[progressive hunter]

There are good regulations and bad regulations.

Not allowing a factory to bury toxic waste which leaks into the water table is good regulation.

The example I gave about cabbies and Uber is an example of bad regulations.

As for "the workers time", that is the whole reason Trump was able to rise to power. The middle class and the poor have been getting ripped off for a long time. But they don't know who or how.

This provides an opportunity for a demagogue to come along and point his fat little finger at a particular group and blame them for all our troubles.

Unfortunately, Trump works for the very elites who have been ripping us off.

being a person of middle class the only thing that comes to mind about being ripped off is when the government uses the power of the gun to take from me and give to lazy fucks that refuse to provide for themselves,,


youre the only one I see pointing their fat fingers at someone,,

 

[g5000]

being a person of middle class the only thing that comes to mind about being ripped off is when the government uses the power of the gun to take from me and give to lazy fucks that refuse to provide for themselves,,


youre the only one I see pointing their fat fingers at someone,,

Let's take the mortgage interest deduction.

You may think that's a really good deal. "I get to keep more of my own money!"

However, every dollar in deductions has to be offset with higher tax rates. The MID is theft which makes every taxpayer pay more. You get to keep more of your money, but someone else is losing more.

Also, how is it in any way, shape, form or fashion a conservative principle that the government punishes you for not taking out a mortgage?

It isn't.

Next, the wealthy benefit a great deal from the MID. They have bigger mortgages and thus bigger deductions.

You think you are getting to keep more of your money, but you really aren't. You are paying more for your house than you would have without the MID.

Now ask yourself who profits from your house costing more?

The mortgage lender, your realtor, and the person who built your house. That's who.

Which is why the real estate industry spends over 100 million dollars a year lobbying Congress.


How Would Reforming the Mortgage Interest Deduction Affect the Housing Market?

One widely cited 1996 study by Dennis Capozza, Richard Green, and PatricHendershott estimated that eliminating the mortgage interest and property tax deductions would reduce housing prices in the short term by an average of 13 percent nationwide, with regional changes ranging from 8 to 27 percent.



Why Now's the Time to Kill the Mortgage Interest Deduction

Proponents of the deduction argue that it's a key component to keeping home prices up.

Do you hear that? An open admission the deduction drives up the cost of housing!


As much as homebuilders argue that eliminating the deduction would hurt them, economists agree that the biggest impact would be on the highest-priced homes, with more reasonably priced real estate seeing little or no impact from getting rid of the deduction.

The rich are disproportionately benefitting from this government interference in the housing market.

And homebuilders are whining about losing their government tit.



hunter, you are being ripped off in countless ways. This is just one example. The really sick part is that you are made to think you are coming out ahead.

Those who are stealing from you depend on it all being too complex for you to catch on.

It's easier for a demagogue to blame the poor and Mexicans.