Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Rigby5]

I can't believe so many Trumpettes love our current healthcare system. This year my wife's insurer will no longer offer her current policy. They suggested a replacement. 480% increase in deductible, 300% increase in copay, 300% increase in out of pocket.

Then my local doctor was sold to a mega corporate conglomerate. We buy as individuals & buy on the exchanges. Corporate medicine opted not to accept the vast majority of options leaving us with two. One with a huge deductible & one with a 80% higher deductible & 250% higher premium.

Fighting to get things covered.

So much fun.

Get better insurance. I sprained my left knee and saw an MD the next morning. We have two sports medicine clinics literally 5 miles from where we live. We also have several urgent care centers. I pay $8400 per year for family including dental and my family max out of pocket is $5000.

You saw an MD but when did you get to see the specialist. Were you able to walk?

Prior to the exchanges, I was paying $16,500 for premiums. Were quoted $18K for 2014. Buying for my wife & I as individuals = went through the local Chamber to get that rate.

Have fun when you are young. Get older & you'll be fucked.

That was the specialist, it is a dedicated sports medicine clinic. I do have pretty good insurance. I recommend you find the same. You're getting screwed.

You are naive. You'll find out in due time.

$8400 a year for family? Must be your share of your employers plan.

I was incorrect. $6,900. My wife corrected me. Yes, through an employer. Pretty good, right?

Not good at all.
First of all, your contribution to employer based health insurance is typically half or less of the entire cost.
And it is the entire cost that matters, because that money is still coming out of what you produce, increases the cost of US goods in the global market, and all that money paid in by you is still lost when you change jobs.
And since the poor do not get tax exempt employer benefits like you do, they are essentially illegally forced to subsidize your health care.
Your health care costs are negotiated by your employer, who is essentially collective bargaining with their thousands of employees. Poor people who do not get employer benefits, then have to try to negotiate health insurance rates without this collective bargaining advantage.
It is extremely unfair that poor have to pay as much as 4 times as much for health care than the wealthy.

 

[Rigby5]

It has NOTHING at all to do with preferences.
Clearly the system in the US, where you prepay decades ahead of time, does not and can not possibly ever work.
It is about as stupid as that prepaid legal insurance scam was.
When you prepay, you get what you deserve, which is almost nothing.

Oh, I totally agree. Our system is totally fucked up. But it's because we've indulged the desire to control people with government. I just don't see how giving government even more power is going to help.

No, the reason health care is so screwed up is that we prepay and lose any ability to control quality or costs.
Government is involved with the screw up, but that is because in 1957 the IRS created the tax exemption for employer benefits, and the health care insurance industry was born.
It is a scam, essentially a protection racket, and I know because I have paid in over half a million dollars, and not got a single cent back out. That is because I have never had any medical bills greater than the deductible.

Again, I totally agree. If I was responsible for reforming the health care fiasco, the first thing I'd do is repeal the tax exemptions for benefits. It gives employers way too much power over employees.

The employer benefit tax exemption is also unfair to the poor who never got it, and it meant employees lost all that money they prepaid into insurance premiums when they changed jobs.

Group insurance isn't a viable model for financing health care. Liberals like it because it looks like socialism - but it's not. It only exists because it's propped up by ill-considered laws. I don't want to ban health insurance (normal insurance works fine) - and I certainly don't want to see government take over - but we need to remove all the artificial tax and regulatory policy used to promote it.

If we remover the unfair tax exemption for employer benefits that was started in 1957, then perhaps a private health care system could be possible, much as it was before 1957?

But the point of socialized medicine is not to add regulations or force government control of anything.
The goal instead is to provide a free low level safety net, that would compete with and force all private medical services to be more reasonable, fair, and accessible prices.
Right now there is no competition, and insurance companies have turned health care into an unfair monopoly that forces you to pay ridiculous insurance premiums if you want any health care access at all.

 

[Rigby5]

Things like justice are fairly absolute when it is so blatant like this, where illegal European immigrants took over Palestine by force of arms.
That is clearly criminal by any legal standard.
Jews have no legal, historical, or religious basis for taking Palestine from the Arab natives, by force.
And that it was illegal theft is obvious, since the immigrating Jews simply did not pay for hardly any land at all.

When you deal in absolutes you’re an asshole.

Me: I like the color green.

Rigby: EVERYONE knows that blue is the best color.

Fuck off. Stop replying to me. Weirdo

The rule of law exists because there are absolutes when it comes to the actions of humans to each other.
Justice can be defined, written down, etc., and is fairly absolute.
It can be relative to some conditions, but is not at all subjective.

Winners write history, you idiot.

But if you do not based actions on what is appropriate for human nature, then you will be forgotten by history.
Human history is driven by the human nature of evolution.
For example, no one remembers Genghis Khan any more because although he won, he acted contrary to human nature, and when he died, his empire totally dissolved to nothing.

If you look at those who are remembered better than Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun, it is those who provided something more useful, like the Romans, the British, etc., who were just as imperialist and colonial, but not nearly as brutal. And if you at the last 100 years or so, the greatest achievement has been an attempt to instill justice as the norm. Only justice can reduce violence and destruction.

You're so stupid. "Appropriate" is subjective. Get a job.

No its not.
Human values are consistent, based on instincts selected for by millions of year of evolution in humans.
What is appropriate for the human species is fairly well understood, and completely different from what is appropriate for some other species.

For example, incest and pedophilia are absolutely inappropriate for the human species, and that is not subjective.
They naturally do not happen in normal human social groups, and only happen when normal sexuality has been inappropriately suppressed.

Something that is relative to various conditions does not mean it is subjective because others of the same species will do the same things under the same conditions. Lots of human nature is relative, but almost none of it is subjective. Otherwise we could not make laws, live in such large concentrations, have such popular means of group entertainment, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

All real Jews, like me, are against Zionism and Israel because after the Roman defeat of the Jewish rebellion in 160 AD, it was decided by the Jewish leadership that Jews were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride, and were supposed to atone for those sins. Israel is a sin and defiles all past atonement.

So I am a fake Jew? LMAO. You’re a traitor

Zionists, like Netanyahu, all admit they are atheists.
It simply is impossible to be a religious Jew and support the immoral and unethical take over of Palestine from the natives, by immigrant Europeans.
That is against Judaism.
How can anyone argue with that?

You people... how are you people so stuck on stupid, that in the middle of thread about Universal Healthcare, you start talking about Jews? What is wrong with you people? Grow up. How childish can you get.

Health care is related to the problem in Palestine because injustice always is wrong.
The more we can implement fairness, equality, and other intrinsic human values, over profits, the better society is.
The conflict with human values is raw power, and I think that is very dangerous.

"Injustice" is subjective as are "fairness, equality and intrinsic human values". Your opinions are not facts. I find society better without people like you in it. Why is your opinion more right than mine?

If injustice were not objective instead of subjective, then there would be no rebellions because you would have no commonality among groups.
You would not be able to come up with useful laws anyone would follow.
My opinions are based on anthropology and studies of human nature and evolution, that I have read.
So they are facts.
You need to study anthropology more for your opinions to be facts.
And that does not mean just making generalizations from what you observe around you in current society, because current society is fairly subjective, as we are manipulated by propaganda, media, advertising, etc.
One has to survey many societies, current and past, in order to catalog what human nature really is.
The smaller and more primitive societies are the most valuable, because they reveal how humans have lived over the longest periods of time.

 

[Rigby5]

This health care mess is 100% about getting government involved.

Anyone who wants health care costs to drop supports junking the government's involvement and going free market.

Post the prices of the surgeries and joint replacements online.

Stop just going to your "doctor" and taking whatever pill he/she prescribes.

Make Americans accountable for their own health. If you are fat, then you did that to yourself, and hence YOU should pay, not the rest of us.

You do have a point in that the 1957 government plan to allow employer benefits to be tax exempt is mostly what screwed up health care in the US.

However, if you do not allow for health care to be universally accessible to a degree, than you would have created a legal justification for murder and theft, if the accused were doing it in order to pay for life saving health care.
The right to life, through health care access, would then legally justify any crime necessary in order to pay for that life giving health care. And you have to see why that is not a good idea.

And health insurance is the opposite of the personal accountability you said you desire.
For it is everyone else who is healthy but forced to pay in with premiums, that finance the ability of some to become obese and kept alive through expensive insurance paid, medical procedures.

 

[LaDairis]

And health insurance is the opposite of the personal accountability you said you desire.

And "health insurance" will end up being "single payer...."

and the US taxpayer will never be able to fund it.

 

[Rigby5]

You saw an MD but when did you get to see the specialist. Were you able to walk?

Prior to the exchanges, I was paying $16,500 for premiums. Were quoted $18K for 2014. Buying for my wife & I as individuals = went through the local Chamber to get that rate.

Have fun when you are young. Get older & you'll be fucked.

So glad you love Obamacare!

Obamacare changed very little and mostly just tried to get rid of being able to reject people based on pre-existing conditions.
It did nothing to fix the main problem, which is 3rd party payers deliberately allows providers to over charge by over twice what they should be paid.

 

[Rigby5]

So glad you love Obamacare!

CocksuckerCare is Exhibit A of what happens the more government gets involved...

PRICES SURGE

POLITICIANS RAKE IT IN

The PEOPLE GET SCREWED.....


How much did Cocksucker Obama bill the US taxpayer just to pass it??

A: $4 billion to bribe 4 senators to vote for it

That is not true.
Health insurance premium rates were going up over 15% a year before Obamacare, and Obamacare slowed down that increase.

Here is a site that shows graphs on how health care was rising fast before ACA, and that ACA slightly slowed the growth.

ACA Impact on Per Capita Cost of Health Care

 

[Rigby5]

And health insurance is the opposite of the personal accountability you said you desire.

And "health insurance" will end up being "single payer...."

and the US taxpayer will never be able to fund it.

Don't get what you mean, because health insurance is always 3rd party payer, who forces you to prepay them, thus eliminating any ability of you to control costs or quality.
The only way health insurance could be single payer is if there were only 1 insurance company that everyone paid into, based on ability to pay, and with highly regulated quality controls.

And clearly the greater the move to public health care, the cheaper it becomes, as the whole rest of the world proves.

 

[RealDave]

I waited 3 months to see an ortho to address my knee pain.

You are being dishonest. Those posters in Canada have said this " OMG OMG OMG you have to wait in Canada" basically a big fat lie.

I waited 20 minutes. Get a better doctor and get off your knees.

I can call my doc with a condition & get it the same day too.

So can they in Canada

This thing is pretty simple really. If everyone is given "free" healthcare, quality will suffer dramatically. The system will be overrun with people who go to the doctor for every hangnail or if they feel a little down in the dumps. Medicaid patients already do this. They have no co-pay and nothing to lose. They can get all the tests and all the attention they want all for "free". With the system overrun, medical schools will need to lower requirements to allow for a large range of students..e.g less qualified. Also, doctors get reimbursed much less for Medicaid patients than those on private insurance plans. Imagine flooding that market with more and more less lucrative patients. Doctors pay will decrease dramatically. The best and the brightest will no longer go into medicine, allowing for even more less qualified people in the profession. They will likely have to dumb down the curriculum to allow for more to get through medical school. The government will not pay as much for pharmaceuticals and the companies will have less incentive to develop new, life saving drugs.

The whole idea of getting rid of private insurance stinks to high heavens, but the "free" stuff crowd doesn't think anything through, which is why they need "free" stuff to begin with.

So, you are saying docs will get a lot more paying customers. And this is bad?

Eh....Dave....post 1344? Care to respond....

Respond to what? You don't think there are wait times here in the US. And you think emergencies wait 12 weeks in Canada.
An obvious crock of shit.

 

[RealDave]

You saw an MD but when did you get to see the specialist. Were you able to walk?

Prior to the exchanges, I was paying $16,500 for premiums. Were quoted $18K for 2014. Buying for my wife & I as individuals = went through the local Chamber to get that rate.

Have fun when you are young. Get older & you'll be fucked.

So glad you love Obamacare!

Obamacare changed very little and mostly just tried to get rid of being able to reject people based on pre-existing conditions.
It did nothing to fix the main problem, which is 3rd party payers deliberately allows providers to over charge by over twice what they should be paid.

The ACA set minimums for insurers. It gave those who buy as individuals the exchanges. It helped millions buy insurance.

 

[Meister]

I waited 20 minutes. Get a better doctor and get off your knees.

I can call my doc with a condition & get it the same day too.

So can they in Canada

This thing is pretty simple really. If everyone is given "free" healthcare, quality will suffer dramatically. The system will be overrun with people who go to the doctor for every hangnail or if they feel a little down in the dumps. Medicaid patients already do this. They have no co-pay and nothing to lose. They can get all the tests and all the attention they want all for "free". With the system overrun, medical schools will need to lower requirements to allow for a large range of students..e.g less qualified. Also, doctors get reimbursed much less for Medicaid patients than those on private insurance plans. Imagine flooding that market with more and more less lucrative patients. Doctors pay will decrease dramatically. The best and the brightest will no longer go into medicine, allowing for even more less qualified people in the profession. They will likely have to dumb down the curriculum to allow for more to get through medical school. The government will not pay as much for pharmaceuticals and the companies will have less incentive to develop new, life saving drugs.

The whole idea of getting rid of private insurance stinks to high heavens, but the "free" stuff crowd doesn't think anything through, which is why they need "free" stuff to begin with.

So, you are saying docs will get a lot more paying customers. And this is bad?

Eh....Dave....post 1344? Care to respond....

Respond to what? You don't think there are wait times here in the US. And you think emergencies wait 12 weeks in Canada.
An obvious crock of shit.

Dave, Dave, Dave....you said: "I can call my doc with a condition & get it the same day too.

So can they in Canada".

Now you're being disingenuous at best or just down right lying with your answer.
I'm betting on down right lying on your behalf and when confronted with actual facts
you deflect. You weren't talking about emergencies and neither was I.
Real Dave has become Fake Dave, because you are a fake and offer nothing but bull shit

 

[Markle]

The ACA set minimums for insurers. It gave those who buy as individuals the exchanges. It helped millions buy insurance.

You mean it forced millions to buy insurance they did not want at a price they could not afford with deductibles that rendered the policy useless.

Got it!

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Get better insurance. I sprained my left knee and saw an MD the next morning. We have two sports medicine clinics literally 5 miles from where we live. We also have several urgent care centers. I pay $8400 per year for family including dental and my family max out of pocket is $5000.

You saw an MD but when did you get to see the specialist. Were you able to walk?

Prior to the exchanges, I was paying $16,500 for premiums. Were quoted $18K for 2014. Buying for my wife & I as individuals = went through the local Chamber to get that rate.

Have fun when you are young. Get older & you'll be fucked.

That was the specialist, it is a dedicated sports medicine clinic. I do have pretty good insurance. I recommend you find the same. You're getting screwed.

You are naive. You'll find out in due time.

$8400 a year for family? Must be your share of your employers plan.

I was incorrect. $6,900. My wife corrected me. Yes, through an employer. Pretty good, right?

Not good at all.
First of all, your contribution to employer based health insurance is typically half or less of the entire cost.
And it is the entire cost that matters, because that money is still coming out of what you produce, increases the cost of US goods in the global market, and all that money paid in by you is still lost when you change jobs.
And since the poor do not get tax exempt employer benefits like you do, they are essentially illegally forced to subsidize your health care.
Your health care costs are negotiated by your employer, who is essentially collective bargaining with their thousands of employees. Poor people who do not get employer benefits, then have to try to negotiate health insurance rates without this collective bargaining advantage.
It is extremely unfair that poor have to pay as much as 4 times as much for health care than the wealthy.

Good for ME!

IDC about the "poor" or "rich" only about Azog. Mrs. Azog and baby Azogs. Follow along.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

When you deal in absolutes you’re an asshole.

Me: I like the color green.

Rigby: EVERYONE knows that blue is the best color.

Fuck off. Stop replying to me. Weirdo

The rule of law exists because there are absolutes when it comes to the actions of humans to each other.
Justice can be defined, written down, etc., and is fairly absolute.
It can be relative to some conditions, but is not at all subjective.

Winners write history, you idiot.

But if you do not based actions on what is appropriate for human nature, then you will be forgotten by history.
Human history is driven by the human nature of evolution.
For example, no one remembers Genghis Khan any more because although he won, he acted contrary to human nature, and when he died, his empire totally dissolved to nothing.

If you look at those who are remembered better than Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun, it is those who provided something more useful, like the Romans, the British, etc., who were just as imperialist and colonial, but not nearly as brutal. And if you at the last 100 years or so, the greatest achievement has been an attempt to instill justice as the norm. Only justice can reduce violence and destruction.

You're so stupid. "Appropriate" is subjective. Get a job.

No its not.
Human values are consistent, based on instincts selected for by millions of year of evolution in humans.
What is appropriate for the human species is fairly well understood, and completely different from what is appropriate for some other species.

For example, incest and pedophilia are absolutely inappropriate for the human species, and that is not subjective.
They naturally do not happen in normal human social groups, and only happen when normal sexuality has been inappropriately suppressed.

Something that is relative to various conditions does not mean it is subjective because others of the same species will do the same things under the same conditions. Lots of human nature is relative, but almost none of it is subjective. Otherwise we could not make laws, live in such large concentrations, have such popular means of group entertainment, etc.

It is? Some deep homosexuality as not "normal" sexuality. What sayeth you?

 

[LaDairis]

The only way health insurance could be single payer is if there were only 1 insurance company that everyone paid into,

THAT is the LEFT's plan.

Steal that government inflated health insurance profit, and then make that money VANISH, and then RAISE PREMIUMS yet again....


Big government's appetite for stealing is truly infinite, as is its desire to have the ability to "wipe out" its critics. Government controlled health care does that. If Hillary was Prez and we had single payer, those who criticized Hillary would be dying at an alarming rate because of "doctor visits..."

 

[LaDairis]

So glad you love Obamacare!

CocksuckerCare is Exhibit A of what happens the more government gets involved...

PRICES SURGE

POLITICIANS RAKE IT IN

The PEOPLE GET SCREWED.....


How much did Cocksucker Obama bill the US taxpayer just to pass it??

A: $4 billion to bribe 4 senators to vote for it

That is not true.
Health insurance premium rates were going up over 15% a year before Obamacare, and Obamacare slowed down that increase.

Here is a site that shows graphs on how health care was rising fast before ACA, and that ACA slightly slowed the growth.

ACA Impact on Per Capita Cost of Health Care

"factcheck" is a left wing liar entity that appears on every real issue we, the American people, are being lied to....


911
Obama being gay
identity of "Al Baghdadi"



Let's check the actual headlines....


CocksuckerCare premiums have been going DOWN..... SINCE the Cocksucker and his man-wife left office.... prior to that....


Overwhelming Evidence That Obamacare Caused Premiums To Increase Substantially



First, unlike Adler and Ginsburg's approach, Brookings 2014 study used actual data and found that “enrollment-weighted premiums in the individual health insurance market increased by 24.4 percent beyond what they would have had they simply followed…trends.” Second, S&P Global Institute found that average individual market medical costs increased substantially between 2013 and 2015, up an estimated 69%




The Cocksucker's attitude to "cost" was best exemplified by his need to bribe 4 Senators to pass it, and he did, with our money of course...



Payoffs for states get Reid to 60

 

[Rigby5]

The ACA set minimums for insurers. It gave those who buy as individuals the exchanges. It helped millions buy insurance.

You mean it forced millions to buy insurance they did not want at a price they could not afford with deductibles that rendered the policy useless.

Got it!

That is not at all true.
The price of health care under ACA was lower than it was previously.
For example, I used to pay $1200/month before ACA, and it went down to about $700/month after ACA.
And deductibles did not change at all.
There were platinum, gold, silver, and bronze plans under ACA.
Here are some details:

Bronze Plans: What You Need to Know
{...
To see how the premiums of different metal levels compare, here are the average monthly premiums for the lowest-cost plan in each of metal levels in 2019:

Plan Type Monthly Premium
Bronze Plan $339
Silver Plan $452
Gold Plan $514
Platinum Plan To be determined
...}

{...
...

How Much Is the Bronze Plan?
For 2019, the average bronze plan costs $339 in monthly premiums. Below are the lowest-cost bronze plans by state for 2019:

Lowest-Cost Bronze Plans by State, Estimated Before and After Premium Tax Credits, in 2019
State Major City That Determined Rating Before Premium Tax Credit After Premium Tax Credit
Alabama Birmingham $327 $8
Alaska Anchorage $461 $0
Arizona Phoenix $333 $113
Arkansas Little Rock $320 $147
California Los Angeles $264 $87
Colorado Denver $336 $77
Connecticut Hartford $297 $75
Delaware Wilmington $450 $0
DC Washington $316 $136
Florida Miami $333 $92
Georgia Atlanta $316 $84
Hawaii Honolulu $361 $45
Idaho Boise $282 $10
Illinois Chicago $328 $151
Indiana Indianapolis $350 $179
Iowa Cedar Rapids $429 $0
Kansas Wichita $375 $52
Kentucky Louisville $275 $111
Louisiana New Orleans $336 $159
Maine Portland $335 $57
Maryland Baltimore $298 $85
Massachusetts Boston $252 $137
Michigan Detroit $225 $98
Minnesota Minneapolis $238 $144
Mississippi Jackson $474 $138
Missouri St Louis $325 $110
Montana Billings $321 $5
Nebraska Omaha $473 $0
Nevada Las Vegas $292 $130
New Hampshire Manchester $303 $107
New Jersey Newark $279 $138
New Mexico Albuquerque $241 $107
New York New York City $421 $52
North Carolina Charlotte $361 $31
North Dakota Fargo $282 $94
Ohio Cleveland $264 $143
Oklahoma Oklahoma City $334 $0
Oregon Portland $296 $91
Pennsylvania Philadelphia $370 $111
Rhode Island Providence $215 $89
South Carolina Columbia $406 $9
South Dakota Sioux Falls $331 $89
Tennessee Nashville $346 $63
Texas Houston $286 $100
Utah Salt Lake City $271 $0
Vermont Burlington $426 $0
Virginia Richmond $379 $89
Washington Seattle $319 $142
West Virginia Huntington $474 $169
Wisconsin Milwaukee $372 $16
Wyoming Cheyenne $560 $0
Source: Kaiser Family Foundation Health Insurance Marketplace Calculator and 2019 data published by Health and Human Services.
Premium and tax credit estimates are based on rates for a 40-year-old non-smoker making $30,000 per year.

...
Actuarial Values Determine Metal Levels
When a marketplace plan is created by a health insurance company, it will fall into one of the four metal levels (platinum, gold, silver, and bronze). The metal level it falls into is determined by the actuarial value (AV) of that plan. An actuarial value is the average percentage of total costs that a plan will pay for covered benefits, taking into account deductibles, copays, coinsurance and out-of-pocket maximums. Each metal level has a different AV:

Plan Type AV
Bronze Plan 60%
Silver Plan 70%
Gold Plan 80%
Platinum Plan 90%
...}

 

[Markle]

The ACA set minimums for insurers. It gave those who buy as individuals the exchanges. It helped millions buy insurance.

You mean it forced millions to buy insurance they did not want at a price they could not afford with deductibles that rendered the policy useless.

Got it!

That is not at all true.
The price of health care under ACA was lower than it was previously.
For example, I used to pay $1200/month before ACA, and it went down to about $700/month after ACA.
And deductibles did not change at all.
There were platinum, gold, silver, and bronze plans under ACA.
Here are some details:

Bronze Plans: What You Need to Know
{...
To see how the premiums of different metal levels compare, here are the average monthly premiums for the lowest-cost plan in each of metal levels in 2019:

Plan Type Monthly Premium
Bronze Plan $339
Silver Plan $452
Gold Plan $514
Platinum Plan To be determined
...}

{...
...

How Much Is the Bronze Plan?
For 2019, the average bronze plan costs $339 in monthly premiums. Below are the lowest-cost bronze plans by state for 2019:

Lowest-Cost Bronze Plans by State, Estimated Before and After Premium Tax Credits, in 2019
State Major City That Determined Rating Before Premium Tax Credit After Premium Tax Credit
Alabama Birmingham $327 $8
Alaska Anchorage $461 $0
Arizona Phoenix $333 $113
Arkansas Little Rock $320 $147
California Los Angeles $264 $87
Colorado Denver $336 $77
Connecticut Hartford $297 $75
Delaware Wilmington $450 $0
DC Washington $316 $136
Florida Miami $333 $92
Georgia Atlanta $316 $84
Hawaii Honolulu $361 $45
Idaho Boise $282 $10
Illinois Chicago $328 $151
Indiana Indianapolis $350 $179
Iowa Cedar Rapids $429 $0
Kansas Wichita $375 $52
Kentucky Louisville $275 $111
Louisiana New Orleans $336 $159
Maine Portland $335 $57
Maryland Baltimore $298 $85
Massachusetts Boston $252 $137
Michigan Detroit $225 $98
Minnesota Minneapolis $238 $144
Mississippi Jackson $474 $138
Missouri St Louis $325 $110
Montana Billings $321 $5
Nebraska Omaha $473 $0
Nevada Las Vegas $292 $130
New Hampshire Manchester $303 $107
New Jersey Newark $279 $138
New Mexico Albuquerque $241 $107
New York New York City $421 $52
North Carolina Charlotte $361 $31
North Dakota Fargo $282 $94
Ohio Cleveland $264 $143
Oklahoma Oklahoma City $334 $0
Oregon Portland $296 $91
Pennsylvania Philadelphia $370 $111
Rhode Island Providence $215 $89
South Carolina Columbia $406 $9
South Dakota Sioux Falls $331 $89
Tennessee Nashville $346 $63
Texas Houston $286 $100
Utah Salt Lake City $271 $0
Vermont Burlington $426 $0
Virginia Richmond $379 $89
Washington Seattle $319 $142
West Virginia Huntington $474 $169
Wisconsin Milwaukee $372 $16
Wyoming Cheyenne $560 $0
Source: Kaiser Family Foundation Health Insurance Marketplace Calculator and 2019 data published by Health and Human Services.
Premium and tax credit estimates are based on rates for a 40-year-old non-smoker making $30,000 per year.

...
Actuarial Values Determine Metal Levels
When a marketplace plan is created by a health insurance company, it will fall into one of the four metal levels (platinum, gold, silver, and bronze). The metal level it falls into is determined by the actuarial value (AV) of that plan. An actuarial value is the average percentage of total costs that a plan will pay for covered benefits, taking into account deductibles, copays, coinsurance and out-of-pocket maximums. Each metal level has a different AV:

Plan Type AV
Bronze Plan 60%
Silver Plan 70%
Gold Plan 80%
Platinum Plan 90%
...}

Your anecdotal evidence is of no value whatsoever.

Gosh, somehow you failed to mention, nor does your "source" disclose the deductibles on a Bronze plan. Allow me to assist.

The average deductible for 2017 bronze plans marks the first time this average has crossed the $6,000 threshold. Compared to 2016’s average of $5,731, the 2017 average bronze plan deductible for individuals is 6% higher ($6,092). For families enrolled in bronze plans, the average deductible is over $12,000 in 2017.

2017 Obamacare Average Premiums and Average Deductibles - HealthPocket.com

 

[dblack]

But the point of socialized medicine is not to add regulations or force government control of anything.

It might not be the goal, but it is the means. Is it not?

The goal instead is to provide a free low level safety net, that would compete with and force all private medical services to be more reasonable, fair, and accessible prices.

That doesn't really line up with the proposals. We already have a low-level safety net. If the goal is a safety net, why do we need Medicare "for All"?

Right now there is no competition, and insurance companies have turned health care into an unfair monopoly that forces you to pay ridiculous insurance premiums if you want any health care access at all.

Yes, and that's because of the state regulatory fiefdoms that the dominant insurance companies have built for themselves. It's because of government - not in spite of it. We can remove their "unfair monopoly" by striking down the regs holding it in place.