Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[RealDave]

The ACA set minimums for insurers. It gave those who buy as individuals the exchanges. It helped millions buy insurance.

You mean it forced millions to buy insurance they did not want at a price they could not afford with deductibles that rendered the policy useless.

Got it!

That is not at all true.
The price of health care under ACA was lower than it was previously.
For example, I used to pay $1200/month before ACA, and it went down to about $700/month after ACA.
And deductibles did not change at all.
There were platinum, gold, silver, and bronze plans under ACA.
Here are some details:

Bronze Plans: What You Need to Know
{...
To see how the premiums of different metal levels compare, here are the average monthly premiums for the lowest-cost plan in each of metal levels in 2019:

Plan Type Monthly Premium
Bronze Plan $339
Silver Plan $452
Gold Plan $514
Platinum Plan To be determined
...}

{...
...

How Much Is the Bronze Plan?
For 2019, the average bronze plan costs $339 in monthly premiums. Below are the lowest-cost bronze plans by state for 2019:

Lowest-Cost Bronze Plans by State, Estimated Before and After Premium Tax Credits, in 2019
State Major City That Determined Rating Before Premium Tax Credit After Premium Tax Credit
Alabama Birmingham $327 $8
Alaska Anchorage $461 $0
Arizona Phoenix $333 $113
Arkansas Little Rock $320 $147
California Los Angeles $264 $87
Colorado Denver $336 $77
Connecticut Hartford $297 $75
Delaware Wilmington $450 $0
DC Washington $316 $136
Florida Miami $333 $92
Georgia Atlanta $316 $84
Hawaii Honolulu $361 $45
Idaho Boise $282 $10
Illinois Chicago $328 $151
Indiana Indianapolis $350 $179
Iowa Cedar Rapids $429 $0
Kansas Wichita $375 $52
Kentucky Louisville $275 $111
Louisiana New Orleans $336 $159
Maine Portland $335 $57
Maryland Baltimore $298 $85
Massachusetts Boston $252 $137
Michigan Detroit $225 $98
Minnesota Minneapolis $238 $144
Mississippi Jackson $474 $138
Missouri St Louis $325 $110
Montana Billings $321 $5
Nebraska Omaha $473 $0
Nevada Las Vegas $292 $130
New Hampshire Manchester $303 $107
New Jersey Newark $279 $138
New Mexico Albuquerque $241 $107
New York New York City $421 $52
North Carolina Charlotte $361 $31
North Dakota Fargo $282 $94
Ohio Cleveland $264 $143
Oklahoma Oklahoma City $334 $0
Oregon Portland $296 $91
Pennsylvania Philadelphia $370 $111
Rhode Island Providence $215 $89
South Carolina Columbia $406 $9
South Dakota Sioux Falls $331 $89
Tennessee Nashville $346 $63
Texas Houston $286 $100
Utah Salt Lake City $271 $0
Vermont Burlington $426 $0
Virginia Richmond $379 $89
Washington Seattle $319 $142
West Virginia Huntington $474 $169
Wisconsin Milwaukee $372 $16
Wyoming Cheyenne $560 $0
Source: Kaiser Family Foundation Health Insurance Marketplace Calculator and 2019 data published by Health and Human Services.
Premium and tax credit estimates are based on rates for a 40-year-old non-smoker making $30,000 per year.

...
Actuarial Values Determine Metal Levels
When a marketplace plan is created by a health insurance company, it will fall into one of the four metal levels (platinum, gold, silver, and bronze). The metal level it falls into is determined by the actuarial value (AV) of that plan. An actuarial value is the average percentage of total costs that a plan will pay for covered benefits, taking into account deductibles, copays, coinsurance and out-of-pocket maximums. Each metal level has a different AV:

Plan Type AV
Bronze Plan 60%
Silver Plan 70%
Gold Plan 80%
Platinum Plan 90%
...}

Your anecdotal evidence is of no value whatsoever.

Gosh, somehow you failed to mention, nor does your "source" disclose the deductibles on a Bronze plan. Allow me to assist.

The average deductible for 2017 bronze plans marks the first time this average has crossed the $6,000 threshold. Compared to 2016’s average of $5,731, the 2017 average bronze plan deductible for individuals is 6% higher ($6,092). For families enrolled in bronze plans, the average deductible is over $12,000 in 2017.

2017 Obamacare Average Premiums and Average Deductibles - HealthPocket.com

You assfucks need to make up your minds.

You want lower cost policies for healthy young people? High deductibles do it.

What was there before the ACA for those who do not get insurance through their employer or some other large group?

Let me know when you find those costs.

The ACA did great things. All you ignorant people do is lie about it.

When I started my own company, I called one of the local blues what it would cost for an equivalent policy to what I had through my previous employer. For a family of 3, it was $28,000 in 2003. So how about you quit your fucking lying & get a fucking brain.

 

[RealDave]

The ACA set minimums for insurers. It gave those who buy as individuals the exchanges. It helped millions buy insurance.

You mean it forced millions to buy insurance they did not want at a price they could not afford with deductibles that rendered the policy useless.

Got it!

Bullshit. I am sure a deadbeat fuck like you would not have insurance, run up a big bill & not pay it. What kind of a moron would not carry health insurance if they could afford it.

The first year of the exchanges, I bought a policy that matched what I had. $500 deductible silver plan that cost $950 a month. My pre-exchange insurance cost $1650 a month (through a local group),

You should probably get better informed. You're making quite the ass out of yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah we are REALLY stupid and poor down here in red, right to work states. Please pass thay along to your fellow neighbors who continue to move here in droves. In general, we don't particularly care for their immoral, rude(horn blowing) and obnoxious behavior, much less their idotic politics which unbeknowst to most of them, is a large part of why they left their blue state in the first place.

Not that many people are moving, and most of them are old people for the weather... Sadly, those old liberals still like getting their government bennies.... so don't be upset when they turn your states Blue like they did with KY and LA.

Right to work states reward people for hard work. Union shops over-pay for jobs that a trained monkey could do, driving businesses out and/or under. My state is flourshing from companies leaving the union states and coming here.

Funny, you never tell us which state that is.

Okay, here's a list of the poorest states in the country.

Surprise, surprise, surprise, they are all Red States.

Much of your problem is you are a product of blue state economics, which means taxes are exhorbitant and the cost of living is way too high(gas taxes, property taxes, etc.). You try to project that to red states. A person making 100k/yr in a red state is living much better than a person making the same in Chicago. Granted, you must have some skills to get that job here vs there.

Again, I'm sure you are very proud of your job as Head Possum Catcher... but the stats speak for themselves... Poverty is grinding in the South...

 

[JoeB131]

This thing is pretty simple really. If everyone is given "free" healthcare, quality will suffer dramatically. The system will be overrun with people who go to the doctor for every hangnail or if they feel a little down in the dumps. Medicaid patients already do this. They have no co-pay and nothing to lose. They can get all the tests and all the attention they want all for "free". With the system overrun, medical schools will need to lower requirements to allow for a large range of students..e.g less qualified. Also, doctors get reimbursed much less for Medicaid patients than those on private insurance plans. Imagine flooding that market with more and more less lucrative patients. Doctors pay will decrease dramatically. The best and the brightest will no longer go into medicine, allowing for even more less qualified people in the profession. They will likely have to dumb down the curriculum to allow for more to get through medical school. The government will not pay as much for pharmaceuticals and the companies will have less incentive to develop new, life saving drugs.

So, simple enough solution. Train more PA's to handle the bullshit stuff.

If you are going into medicine to make money, you became a doctor for the wrong reason.

The idea that we can only get good medical care by letting big medical and big insurance and big pharma rape the people who can pay, and neglect the people who can't is not only stupid, it's immoral.

The rest of the world HAS ALREADY FIGURED THIS OUT!

 

[JoeB131]

Group insurance isn't a viable model for financing health care. Liberals like it because it looks like socialism - but it's not. It only exists because it's propped up by ill-considered laws. I don't want to ban health insurance (normal insurance works fine) - and I certainly don't want to see government take over - but we need to remove all the artificial tax and regulatory policy used to promote it.

Then you'd have even more people who don't have health insurance or coverage.

The Libertarian Motto... "I've got mine, Fuck you!"

 

[JoeB131]

Good for ME!

IDC about the "poor" or "rich" only about Azog. Mrs. Azog and baby Azogs. Follow along.

Okay... so you get it when the majority that isn't Azog decides to say, "Fuck Azog", right?

 

[DBA]

Yeah we are REALLY stupid and poor down here in red, right to work states. Please pass thay along to your fellow neighbors who continue to move here in droves. In general, we don't particularly care for their immoral, rude(horn blowing) and obnoxious behavior, much less their idotic politics which unbeknowst to most of them, is a large part of why they left their blue state in the first place.

Not that many people are moving, and most of them are old people for the weather... Sadly, those old liberals still like getting their government bennies.... so don't be upset when they turn your states Blue like they did with KY and LA.

Right to work states reward people for hard work. Union shops over-pay for jobs that a trained monkey could do, driving businesses out and/or under. My state is flourshing from companies leaving the union states and coming here.

Funny, you never tell us which state that is.

Okay, here's a list of the poorest states in the country.

View attachment 290776

Surprise, surprise, surprise, they are all Red States.

Much of your problem is you are a product of blue state economics, which means taxes are exhorbitant and the cost of living is way too high(gas taxes, property taxes, etc.). You try to project that to red states. A person making 100k/yr in a red state is living much better than a person making the same in Chicago. Granted, you must have some skills to get that job here vs there.

Again, I'm sure you are very proud of your job as Head Possum Catcher... but the stats speak for themselves... Poverty is grinding in the South...

I will let you figure out why they are the poorest. Do some Demographic research.

 

[JoeB131]

I will let you figure out why they are the poorest. Do some Demographic research.

Don't have to.

Right To Work
Institutionalized racism

That's why they are the poorest. The South is this third world country we have attached to ours, unfortunately...

 

[DBA]

This thing is pretty simple really. If everyone is given "free" healthcare, quality will suffer dramatically. The system will be overrun with people who go to the doctor for every hangnail or if they feel a little down in the dumps. Medicaid patients already do this. They have no co-pay and nothing to lose. They can get all the tests and all the attention they want all for "free". With the system overrun, medical schools will need to lower requirements to allow for a large range of students..e.g less qualified. Also, doctors get reimbursed much less for Medicaid patients than those on private insurance plans. Imagine flooding that market with more and more less lucrative patients. Doctors pay will decrease dramatically. The best and the brightest will no longer go into medicine, allowing for even more less qualified people in the profession. They will likely have to dumb down the curriculum to allow for more to get through medical school. The government will not pay as much for pharmaceuticals and the companies will have less incentive to develop new, life saving drugs.

So, simple enough solution. Train more PA's to handle the bullshit stuff.

If you are going into medicine to make money, you became a doctor for the wrong reason.

The idea that we can only get good medical care by letting big medical and big insurance and big pharma rape the people who can pay, and neglect the people who can't is not only stupid, it's immoral.

The rest of the world HAS ALREADY FIGURED THIS OUT!

I've got news for you. The vast majority of Doctors go into the field for money and job security. Not saying they don't want to help people, but don't be naive. Who would go to school for so long paying so much, finish near the tops of their classes and then make 75k/yr? They could have just as well been nurses.

You have WAY to much faith in government. They should not be in control of everyone's healthcare. That is very dangerous. Don't be so naive.

 

[JoeB131]

I've got news for you. The vast majority of Doctors go into the field for money and job security. Not saying they don't want to help people, but don't be naive. Who would go to school for so long paying so much, finish near the tops of their classes and then make 75k/yr? They could have just as well been nurses.

You have WAY to much faith in government. They should not be in control of everyone's healthcare. That is very dangerous. Don't be so naive.

again- every other country has Single Payer or Universal Health Care.

They spend less
They live longer
Less of their babies die
They don't get their families bankrupted by medical crisis.

The one cure me of this kind of conservative asshole nonsense is when I busted up my knee in 2007, and fought Cigna and my employer for nearly a year to get "elective" surgery to fix the problem.

The doctors and specialists and testing folks got very rich at my expense... It took me years to get out of debt from the parts Cigna wouldn't cover.

"WAAAAAHHHH, I'm only going to make low six figures!" Too Fucking Bad.

 

[DBA]

I will let you figure out why they are the poorest. Do some Demographic research.

Don't have to.

Right To Work
Institutionalized racism

That's why they are the poorest. The South is this third world country we have attached to ours, unfortunately...

I should send you some photos of homes near me so you can see just how third world it is. Weird to with alll the CEO's and other execs. choosse to build/buy homes here for several million.

The poor people in our state vote Democrat. The successful people don't. We go red because more successful people vote. If everyone in the state voted, it would likely go Democrat. This is in part due to a large percentage of African Americans in the state, which, regardless of income, vote overwhelmingly Democrat, though the more successul African Americans are more evenly split.

 

[DBA]

I've got news for you. The vast majority of Doctors go into the field for money and job security. Not saying they don't want to help people, but don't be naive. Who would go to school for so long paying so much, finish near the tops of their classes and then make 75k/yr? They could have just as well been nurses.

You have WAY to much faith in government. They should not be in control of everyone's healthcare. That is very dangerous. Don't be so naive.

again- every other country has Single Payer or Universal Health Care.

They spend less
They live longer
Less of their babies die
They don't get their families bankrupted by medical crisis.

The one cure me of this kind of conservative asshole nonsense is when I busted up my knee in 2007, and fought Cigna and my employer for nearly a year to get "elective" surgery to fix the problem.

The doctors and specialists and testing folks got very rich at my expense... It took me years to get out of debt from the parts Cigna wouldn't cover.

"WAAAAAHHHH, I'm only going to make low six figures!" Too Fucking Bad.

Low six figures to be a doctor? That is ridiculous. If a doctor is going to make low six figures, then you can't justify a union auto-worker making 100k/yr. You are simply envious of success. That is the problem with the vast majority of Democrats.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Good for ME!

IDC about the "poor" or "rich" only about Azog. Mrs. Azog and baby Azogs. Follow along.

Okay... so you get it when the majority that isn't Azog decides to say, "Fuck Azog", right?

The majority is selfish about themselves as well. Here is the thing, you’re a pussy. You know that right?

 

[dblack]

Group insurance isn't a viable model for financing health care. Liberals like it because it looks like socialism - but it's not. It only exists because it's propped up by ill-considered laws. I don't want to ban health insurance (normal insurance works fine) - and I certainly don't want to see government take over - but we need to remove all the artificial tax and regulatory policy used to promote it.

Then you'd have even more people who don't have health insurance or coverage.

The Libertarian Motto... "I've got mine, Fuck you!"

Nah - that's your hysterical fantasy. The sky won't fall if government stops funneling money to the insurance industry.

 

[dblack]

You want lower cost policies for healthy young people? High deductibles do it.

What was there before the ACA for those who do not get insurance through their employer or some other large group?

There were lots of high-deductible, low-cost insurance plans. I had one. Most of them are no longer offered because they don't meet the coverage requirements of ACA.

 

[Markle]

You assfucks need to make up your minds.

Thank you for telling the world that the rest of your post is worthless.

 

[Markle]

Bullshit. I am sure a deadbeat fuck

 

[Dragonlady]

You want lower cost policies for healthy young people? High deductibles do it.

What was there before the ACA for those who do not get insurance through their employer or some other large group?

There were lots of high-deductible, low-cost insurance plans. I had one. Most of them are no longer offered because they don't meet the coverage requirements of ACA.

Which means that these policies are useless for families. You wasted your money.

 

[Markle]

They spend less
They live longer
Less of their babies die
They don't get their families bankrupted by medical crisis.

 

[dblack]

You want lower cost policies for healthy young people? High deductibles do it.

What was there before the ACA for those who do not get insurance through their employer or some other large group?

There were lots of high-deductible, low-cost insurance plans. I had one. Most of them are no longer offered because they don't meet the coverage requirements of ACA.

Which means that these policies are useless for families. You wasted your money.

That's a matter of opinion. In particular, my opinion. Not yours. Not government's. Why do you think you have a right to force your preferences on others?