University of NC won't remove Confederate statue

[rightwinger]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

I liked what lee said about the prospect of erecting monuments in the wake of the Civil War "

“I think it wiser,” the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, “…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”


But most revisionist confederates don't like talking about that -- in fact they flat out deny he even said it or was against monuments for Confederates -- but their need to worship this lost cause excuse is like a religion for them -- because if they abandon it, they are face to deal with the gravity of what it was the Confederate cause really was -- and that it failed and will continue to fail no matter how many times you revisionists try to find more ways to vomit it back up

Gettysburg is in Pennsylvania, hardly a southern state, and monuments are there today to remind us of the futility of civil wars, not to glorify them.

Those monuments are on a battlefield not on the grounds of the Harrisburg Statehouse

 

[August West]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

We know about the Democrats of 160 years ago. Is this breaking news to you? Lee was a traitor who received a good West Point education at the expense of American taxpayers and he led troops into battle against the U.S. and that makes him a traitor. Jefferson didn`t lead troops into battle against the U.S. See the difference? Do you understand what treason is? Are you a Trump/Putin/ KGB supporter? I thought so.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

I liked what lee said about the prospect of erecting monuments in the wake of the Civil War "

“I think it wiser,” the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, “…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”


But most revisionist confederates don't like talking about that -- in fact they flat out deny he even said it or was against monuments for Confederates -- but their need to worship this lost cause excuse is like a religion for them -- because if they abandon it, they are face to deal with the gravity of what it was the Confederate cause really was -- and that it failed and will continue to fail no matter how many times you revisionists try to find more ways to vomit it back up

Gettysburg is in Pennsylvania, hardly a southern state, and monuments are there today to remind us of the futility of civil wars, not to glorify them.

Why do you keep avoiding this part??

"not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”

Do you think Germany decided to keep up statues honoring Goebels, Hitler because of all the other good things they did?

I never understood with all the money these revisionist confederates had thru the years have they never decided to build their own museums, theme parks whatever they need to have their confederate circle jerks at

Why this insistence that it be at the public square, courthouses, etc? Because it was meant as a sign of defiance to the progressive changes that they didn't like and fought tooth and nail against -- and simply saying "but they were democrats.." doesn't change this fact -- I don't garner my sense of self identity thru a political party, you do

 

[OODA_Loop]

We know about the Democrats of 160 years ago. Is this breaking news to you? Lee was a traitor who received a good West Point education at the expense of American taxpayers and he led troops into battle against the U.S. and that makes him a traitor. Jefferson didn`t lead troops into battle against the U.S. See the difference? Do you understand what treason is? Are you a Trump/Putin/ KGB supporter? I thought so.

Please quote the law which made secession illegal in 1860.

 

[Pogo]

If nothing else is going to be removed, why should this statue have to go?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

A good number of statues and monuments and plaques etc have already been removed --- as in the three mentioned in my (second) video from New Orleans.

The first monument that city removed was actually removed twice ---- for most of its life the commemoration of the White League shooting its way into control of the city was marked by a prominent 35-foot-tall obelisk at the foot of Canal Street, the main thoroughfare of the city and the widest city street in the U.S. The insurrection was 1874 and the obelisk went up in 1891, and stood there for generations on the city's busiest street. An informational plaque was added in 1932 to make clear that the monument celebrated the triumph of white supremacy.

Another mayor in the 1970s, the father of the mayor in my video, appended a disclaimer sign near it which read, "Although the ‘Battle of Liberty Place’ and this monument are important parts of New Orleans history, the sentiments in favor of white supremacy expressed thereon are contrary to the philosophy and beliefs of present-day New Orleans.” After it was temporarily moved for construction on Canal Street, David Duke came along and sued the city to put it back up. It did but moved it to a less obvious location and finally voted to remove it altogether only a year ago, Mayor Landrieu commenting "we will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city." -- literally 152 years after the Confederacy surrendered. It sits today in a warehouse.

It must be comforting for the OP of this thread to know David Duke's behind him. Nothing like running with "very fine people".

We continue to judge those in the past by the concepts of right and wrong that we hold today. How do we differ from the Taliban destroying buddhas when we remove symbols of the past that we disagree with today? What.s next, removal of the Washington monument and the Jefferson memorial in DC? We may not always be proud of our history, but if we remove it we will not learn from it.

I too, am offended by that monument on Canal street, its gone. But so are Lee and Beauregard. Again, where does revisionist history end?

"How do we differ" is a fair question. The answer is that (1) the Buddhas obliterated by political zealots were not standing there to be propaganda transmitters for a revised history concocted to whitewash Buddah's contemptible actions of the past;

and that (2) they weren't sitting in public squares and in front of public buildings and as in this case the busiest intersection in town where the streetcar turns around slowly so that everybody on that streetcar and walking in the area could not possibly not notice a tribute to the White League having staged an armed coup d'êtat to "take back our state" from the scary black people. Imagine what kind of message that sends to the rider of that streetcar who is black. Well, that's not a message the City wants to endorse, therefore that and the others were relocated from those intentionally-selected locations so as to remove the implication that "this is what we stand for".

And how it differs (3) is that the Taliban obliterated those Buddhas where New Orleans and Charlottesville and the various other municipalities simply moved them out of their prominent positions that DENOTED that implication "this is what we stand for".

And in another way they do not differ, in that neither destroyed Buddhas nor relocated monuments "erase history". The only history they "erase" is the murky historical revision of the UDC that scurried around putting all these turds up. THAT history definitely needs to be told --- and the act of their removal does just that. That's why Mitch Landrieu spelled it out and that's why historians are bringing it out; this is obviously not well known, or not well known enough, what these are and what their purpose really is.

Historical events are not written in statues and monuments; they are memorialized and honored in them. Where history is written is in books. Now if New Orleans (or wherever) wanted to put up a monument at the foot of Canal street, or in Lee Circle, etc, that articulated the Lost Cause Cult and how "there once was a statue of Robert E. Lee (a man who had nothing to do with New Orleans) here" and explain how growing awareness got it removed because "that's not what we stand for", that would be great. But it still wouldn't WRITE that history --- that's already done. What it would do is honor how we fixed it.


I'm old enough to have seen signs for "Colored" bathrooms that no longer exist. Did we "lose history" when those were painted over?

 

[Pogo]

Saw something today that made me think of this thead and all the Lost Cause revisionism especially thinking back to this:

>> "Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system. The architect, in the construction of buildings, lays the foundation with the proper material — the granite; then comes the brick or the marble. The substratum of our society is made of the material fitted by nature for it, and by experience we know that it is best, not only for the superior, but for the inferior race, that it should be so." << -- Alexander Stephens, VP of the CSA on the day the War began​

Parked at Lowe's was an SUV festooned with small bumper stickers, half of them saying "Trump" and the other half Confederate flags... one of the latter had a slogan written under it so I walked up close where I could read it. The sticker said.


I swear to GOD I'm not making this up.....


It said: "Teaching our children to be tolerant of others since 1861".

The vast majority of Trump supporters are tolerant of others, unlike the far left antifa, BLM, Farrakhan, Sharpton, and most of the democrat party who today are banning conservative speakers and indoctrinating our kids with left wing propaganda.

Sure, there are far right idiots, a very small moronic minority, unlike the far left that now dominates the democrat party.

That's all very interesting but it's got nothing to do with my post. I simply reported a bumper sticker I saw, which I believe was an extremely dry-humor satire.

The hazard in humor that dry of course is that somebody's going to not-get it and take it seriously. But I doubt that would happen around these parts. But the outside possibility remains that the car's owner really DOES take it seriously. If so it heralds a massive degree of self-delusion.

Just something to ponder.