University of NC won't remove Confederate statue

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I’m not whining about anything.

Of course you are. You are whining that statues of genocidal traitors are rightfully being removed. It's no mystery why....

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Can’t. Democrats burned them all.

Is that your excuse for not ever having read a book? Pretty lame.

And it's an odd excuse at that, given that it's the right wingers who historically burn books, and considering your constant whining about all those "elitist liberal" places called universities.

I was being figurative. It’s democrats who remove names and landmarks of history by applying today’s standards. That is book-burning.

Of course it isn't, what an absurd thing to say. And I am sure Germany has few statues of Hitler....boy that must really upset you! Or maybe you're just trying to eke out an overwrought point where there isn't one....

It is abject censorship. You endorse it like a good 1930’s nazi.

Says the fascist. That you have no point, Rosh, is the point. The U has every right, within the laws of the State, to decide what will be on campus and not. That is governance not censorship.

It’s censorship.

 

[Pogo]

UNC won’t act on statue of Confederate soldier target of repeated vandalism

Get ready for a snowflake meltdown and more violence,vandalism etc....

Thank god, one place with a little common sense. A nondescript historical statue from a time in our history and now a bunch of idiot fools throwing blood and vandalism at it. Ah, yes, higher education! Just when and what causes kids to become raving idiots between high-school and college? They should simply round these people up, put a cattle captive bolt to their heads and end their suffering. Grind them up for dog food.

Yyyeahhh ummm.... that particular statue has been vandalized for at least sixty-four years. Probably longer but that was the reference I saw.

 

[Pogo]

I’m not whining, you are.

Of course you are. You are whining that statues of genocidal traitors are rightfully being taken down.

And what kind of fool thinks that anyone is only thinking about this, and nothing else? That don't make no sense, Ricky Bobby.

I’m not whining about anything.who gives a shit about a statue other than whiney little people like you. It’s a statue no big deal. There are bigger issues that concern us as a society that require much more thought and rational that the revisionists are capable of. “ that don’t make no sense” ? Get an education and stop whining about ignorant crap that doesn’t matter. Your ilk are hilarious you moan about this, but you don’t try to help anyone in the inner city to pull themselves out,you don’t try to teach responsibility. You only want to cry about how you have been treated badly. Life’s a bitch, stone up and make something of yourself and tell the miserable lowlifes that only want to place blame on someone else to stand up and be a responsible member of society. Statues are not the issue ignorant victimhood is.

Quite the turnabout from the other day when I educated your wangly ass on the Lost Cause and you stomped your feet and put me on Ignore so you wouldn't have to deal with the truth.

Way to "stone up", Shirley.

 

[dave p]

I’m not whining about anything.

Of course you are. You are whining that statues of genocidal traitors are rightfully being removed. It's no mystery why....

I’m not whining that they are being removed. It doesn’t matter to me. Wow whine about them being there. You are to insecure with who you are that these things bother you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Is that your excuse for not ever having read a book? Pretty lame.

And it's an odd excuse at that, given that it's the right wingers who historically burn books, and considering your constant whining about all those "elitist liberal" places called universities.

I was being figurative. It’s democrats who remove names and landmarks of history by applying today’s standards. That is book-burning.

Of course it isn't, what an absurd thing to say. And I am sure Germany has few statues of Hitler....boy that must really upset you! Or maybe you're just trying to eke out an overwrought point where there isn't one....

It is abject censorship. You endorse it like a good 1930’s nazi.

Says the fascist. That you have no point, Rosh, is the point. The U has every right, within the laws of the State, to decide what will be on campus and not. That is governance not censorship.

It’s censorship.

Nope. And once again you are on the losing, as you will be big time this fall.

 

[Pogo]

Saw something today that made me think of this thead and all the Lost Cause revisionism especially thinking back to this:

>> "Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system. The architect, in the construction of buildings, lays the foundation with the proper material — the granite; then comes the brick or the marble. The substratum of our society is made of the material fitted by nature for it, and by experience we know that it is best, not only for the superior, but for the inferior race, that it should be so." << -- Alexander Stephens, VP of the CSA on the day the War began​

Parked at Lowe's was an SUV festooned with small bumper stickers, half of them saying "Trump" and the other half Confederate flags... one of the latter had a slogan written under it so I walked up close where I could read it. The sticker said.


I swear to GOD I'm not making this up.....


It said: "Teaching our children to be tolerant of others since 1861".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Wow whine about them being there.

I do!

 

[Redfish]

If nothing else is going to be removed, why should this statue have to go?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

A good number of statues and monuments and plaques etc have already been removed --- as in the three mentioned in my (second) video from New Orleans.

The first monument that city removed was actually removed twice ---- for most of its life the commemoration of the White League shooting its way into control of the city was marked by a prominent 35-foot-tall obelisk at the foot of Canal Street, the main thoroughfare of the city and the widest city street in the U.S. The insurrection was 1874 and the obelisk went up in 1891, and stood there for generations on the city's busiest street. An informational plaque was added in 1932 to make clear that the monument celebrated the triumph of white supremacy.

Another mayor in the 1970s, the father of the mayor in my video, appended a disclaimer sign near it which read, "Although the ‘Battle of Liberty Place’ and this monument are important parts of New Orleans history, the sentiments in favor of white supremacy expressed thereon are contrary to the philosophy and beliefs of present-day New Orleans.” After it was temporarily moved for construction on Canal Street, David Duke came along and sued the city to put it back up. It did but moved it to a less obvious location and finally voted to remove it altogether only a year ago, Mayor Landrieu commenting "we will no longer allow the Confederacy to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city." -- literally 152 years after the Confederacy surrendered. It sits today in a warehouse.

It must be comforting for the OP of this thread to know David Duke's behind him. Nothing like running with "very fine people".

We continue to judge those in the past by the concepts of right and wrong that we hold today. How do we differ from the Taliban destroying buddhas when we remove symbols of the past that we disagree with today? What.s next, removal of the Washington monument and the Jefferson memorial in DC? We may not always be proud of our history, but if we remove it we will not learn from it.

I too, am offended by that monument on Canal street, its gone. But so are Lee and Beauregard. Again, where does revisionist history end?

 

[Redfish]

Saw something today that made me think of this thead and all the Lost Cause revisionism especially thinking back to this:

>> "Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system. The architect, in the construction of buildings, lays the foundation with the proper material — the granite; then comes the brick or the marble. The substratum of our society is made of the material fitted by nature for it, and by experience we know that it is best, not only for the superior, but for the inferior race, that it should be so." << -- Alexander Stephens, VP of the CSA on the day the War began​

Parked at Lowe's was an SUV festooned with small bumper stickers, half of them saying "Trump" and the other half Confederate flags... one of the latter had a slogan written under it so I walked up close where I could read it. The sticker said.


I swear to GOD I'm not making this up.....


It said: "Teaching our children to be tolerant of others since 1861".

The vast majority of Trump supporters are tolerant of others, unlike the far left antifa, BLM, Farrakhan, Sharpton, and most of the democrat party who today are banning conservative speakers and indoctrinating our kids with left wing propaganda.

Sure, there are far right idiots, a very small moronic minority, unlike the far left that now dominates the democrat party.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

 

[Redfish]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

 

[Redfish]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

On second thought, I'll go ahead and destroy this point too, I got time..

The CSA and Confederate Daughters of America may have had affiliated party wise with the Democrats -- but there place on the ideological spectrum (WHICH MATTERS MOST) was conservative -- they wanted to conserve the institution of white supremacy, they feared the progressive change of re-construction and the progressive pursuit of ALL AMERICANS gaining equal protection under the law ..

Instead the Democrats position at the time was to be fearful of the change to their way of life, to their "CULTURE" -- same shit that CONSERVATIVES say now.

Play that "democrats started the KKK" deflection for someone who isn't smart enough to know the difference between conservative and progressive and how that remains stagnant while the parties themselves switch back and forth between the two

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

I liked what lee said about the prospect of erecting monuments in the wake of the Civil War "

“I think it wiser,” the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, “…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”


But most revisionist confederates don't like talking about that -- in fact they flat out deny he even said it or was against monuments for Confederates -- but their need to worship this lost cause excuse is like a religion for them -- because if they abandon it, they are face to deal with the gravity of what the Confederate cause really was -- and that it failed and will continue to fail no matter how many times you revisionists try to find more ways to vomit it back up

 

[Redfish]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

On second thought, I'll go ahead and destroy this point too, I got time..

The CSA and Confederate Daughters of America may have had affiliated party wise with the Democrats -- but there place on the ideological spectrum (WHICH MATTERS MOST) was conservative -- they wanted to conserve the institution of white supremacy, they feared the progressive change of re-construction and the progressive pursuit of ALL AMERICANS gaining equal protection under the law ..

Instead the Democrats position at the time was to be fearful of the change to their way of life, to their "CULTURE" -- same shit that CONSERVATIVES say now.

Play that "democrats started the KKK" deflection for someone who isn't smart enough to know the difference between conservative and progressive and how that remains stagnant while the parties themselves switch back and forth between the two

nice try, but you failed. whether you like it or not, the democrats started the KKK, the republicans freed the slaves, Lincoln was a republican, Wallace and Byrd were democrats, Lester Maddox was a democrat, Huey Long was a democrat, Bull Conner was a democrat. The democrats of today are using minorities, not helping them. Under Trump black and Hispanic unemployment levels are at record lows. Under Obama they were at record highs. Facts are facts,

history is history, dude. your bullshit about switching ideology doesn't fly.

 

[Redfish]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

I liked what lee said about the prospect of erecting monuments in the wake of the Civil War "

“I think it wiser,” the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, “…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”


But most revisionist confederates don't like talking about that -- in fact they flat out deny he even said it or was against monuments for Confederates -- but their need to worship this lost cause excuse is like a religion for them -- because if they abandon it, they are face to deal with the gravity of what it was the Confederate cause really was -- and that it failed and will continue to fail no matter how many times you revisionists try to find more ways to vomit it back up

Gettysburg is in Pennsylvania, hardly a southern state, and monuments are there today to remind us of the futility of civil wars, not to glorify them.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

On second thought, I'll go ahead and destroy this point too, I got time..

The CSA and Confederate Daughters of America may have had affiliated party wise with the Democrats -- but there place on the ideological spectrum (WHICH MATTERS MOST) was conservative -- they wanted to conserve the institution of white supremacy, they feared the progressive change of re-construction and the progressive pursuit of ALL AMERICANS gaining equal protection under the law ..

Instead the Democrats position at the time was to be fearful of the change to their way of life, to their "CULTURE" -- same shit that CONSERVATIVES say now.

Play that "democrats started the KKK" deflection for someone who isn't smart enough to know the difference between conservative and progressive and how that remains stagnant while the parties themselves switch back and forth between the two

nice try, but you failed. whether you like it or not, the democrats started the KKK, the republicans freed the slaves, Lincoln was a republican, Wallace and Byrd were democrats, Lester Maddox was a democrat, Huey Long was a democrat, Bull Conner was a democrat. The democrats of today are using minorities, not helping them. Under Trump black and Hispanic unemployment levels are at record lows. Under Obama they were at record highs. Facts are facts,

history is history, dude. your bullshit about switching ideology doesn't fly.

Prove to me that current day Democrats want Confederate monuments to remain because it reflects their ideology? I'll wait

The more you comment, the more delusional you appear -- that is what happens when you commit to the "lost cause" religion -- because your attempt at debating me is equally a lost cause -- I am the wrong one to fuck with when it comes to this.

 

[rightwinger]

To be clear --- you can be against statues honoring traitors being on tax-payer funded property and not be in favor of ISIS

You would think Trump lovers would have learned their lesson back during the Bush years when they tried to paint anyone who opposed their precious Iraq War and neo-con policy as being terrorists

Now they pretend that never happened

Washington and Jefferson had slaves, were they traitors? should we rip down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial? Lee was not a traitor, in a civil war there are two sides, supporters of neither side are traitors.

stop trying to rewrite history. Learn from it and use it in the context of the times when it happened.

the vast majority of CSA supporters were democrats, why do you pretend that that didn't happen?

I don't understand what you fail to grapple about "traitors" -- Jefferson owned slaves, yes -- and if Jefferson was on the side of the British when the revolutionary war was fought -- we WOULD NOT have a large contingency of people here demanding we honor Jefferson, Cornwallis or any other notable figures on the British side of the revolutionary war? do you agree? Well, you don't have to -- just show me where are all the statues on government property honoring British generals.

Now, I won't even get into the main motivating factor behind why all of these confederate monuments and other monuments that explicitly honored white supremacy were erected to begin with, my point is clear already.

the statue of Lee was not erected to honor white supremacy, that is just stupid. It was erected to honor a heroic general who fought for what he believed.

your rhetoric is influenced by your left wing indoctrination. you seem to have no concept of our actual history. You want statues of slave owners removed (Lee had none, by the way) but you justify the Jefferson memorial because he didn't fight for the British??? WTF???

He believed in fighting for a nation that was established to ensure slavery would be protected forever