Unpatriotic Dems In Virginia Erases Confederate Holiday

[Pogo]

It is the Democratic Party fighting to end Confederate celebrations

Guess which party wants to continue them?

The one that treats white southerns with the same respect they treat the rest of the nation, you racist prick.

Agree

Republicans treat southern racists the same as American patriots who fought for freedom

Tens of millions of Southerns do not support historical statues because they are are racist. You are smearing good people to justify YOUR RACISM.

Actually, hundreds of monuments, not to mention rewritten history books, were put there to smear good people to justify THE LOST CAUSE CULT'S RACISM.

Fixed it for ya.

I've always heard that the monuments were put up to celebrate the service of the soldiers fighting for what they saw as their duty.

And now you're forced to consider that what you heard was deliberately mendacious propaganda.
And here we are.

 

[Correll]

Some people are probably proud of those who fought to the end despite being horribly outnumbered and outgunned.

You mean the people who risked their lives so the wealthy elite didn’t have to pay the help?

yes, that is obviously who I meant.


I can see that you would not want to celebrate such ancestors if they were your ancestors.


Which is your choice. Other people have made other choices over the decades and centuries.

 

[rightwinger]

Why do we never hear about Northern pride?

We won and we moved on

The south never got over their racist origins

 

[Pogo]

The fact REMAINS, like it or lump it, that she's qualified to speak on this and you're not. You don't even frickin' acknowledge its existence. That's why you cut out vast sections of my post that proved its existence.

As far as the "everybody (white) was fine with it", I covered that literally hundreds of posts ago, last week. You cut that one out too.

As I said, if you're going to sit in the corner going you can successfully block it out but it never means it isn't there.

I willing to listen to the argument she makes, or any evidence she supports. But all you showed me, was an assertion very weakly supported by a few quotes from individuals that were not representing or leading the movement that she was attacking.

If I said that the Democratic Party was the party of racism, and as support from my position, I offered some quotes from a few party officials at the country level in LA and NYC, that would not support my argument.


What you need is something from the founding documents or formal policy position or at last long standing practice, by the group as a whole to smear the group as a whole.

It's nice to cherrypick a single woman and pretend she's some sort of lone voice while ignoring her credentials, but number one, the article I linked (which you cut out as inconvenient so here it comes again) ALREADY quotes UDC former Chapter President Heidi Christensen introducing the Klan promotions;

Number two, the same article also quotes, AND LINKS for perusal, the UDC's children's book about the Klan, written by one Laura Martin Rose of the Mississippi Chapter;

Number three the same article also quotes yet another historian/Professor, Elizabeth Gillespie McRae describing how the UDC did “the daily work on multiple levels . . . needed to sustain racial segregation and to shape resistance to racial equality.”;

Number four, the same article also quotes yet another UDC Chapter President, Annie Cooper Burton, who wrote the second cited Klan book;

Most if not ALL of these were already quoted in the post you wiped out. Now you want to pretend they were never there??

Want a third historian?

"Like the KKK's children's groups, the UDC utilized the Children of the Confederacy to impart to the rising generations their own white-supremacist vision of the future." -- DuRocher, Kristina (2011). Raising racists : the socialization of white children in the Jim Crow South. University Press of Kentucky. ISBN 978-0-8131-3001-9.

Want a fourth? How 'bout Professor, Stuart Towns, stating that the UDC's thrust is one of the "essential elements [of] perpetuating Confederate mythology." -- Towns, W. Stuart (2012). Enduring Legacy: Rhetoric and Ritual of the Lost Cause. University of Alabama Press. ISBN 978-0-8173-1752-2. Some of his books are here.

And oh yes, both of these hold PhDs as well. As you know, "PhD" stands for "Pshaw-- hide Dis, it's inconvenent".

But leave us not stop there. From Angela Esco Elder, Graduate Alumnus at the University of Georgia:

>> Athens native Mildred Lewis Rutherford was probably the most prominent member of the UDC. Rutherford led a crusade for what she believed to be the true history of the Confederacy in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Strongly opposed to woman suffrage, Rutherford argued that the ideal woman should be deferential to men and remain in the home. She believed that all women should hold the plantation mistress as a role model. In addition to defending secession, Rutherford glorified both the plantation system and slavery in antebellum Georgia. The textbooks she wrote, as well as her choice of which ones to censor, serve as a testament to a Confederate history that attempted to legitimize the control of southern elites. From 1899 to 1902 Rutherford served as the Georgia Division's president, and from 1911 to 1916 she served as historian general of the national organization.

Around 1915 Caroline Helen Jemison Plane, the president of the UDC Atlanta chapter, began the project that would culminate in the Confederate memorial carving on Stone Mountain. As leader of the Stone Mountain Memorial Association (incorporated in 1916 as the Stone Mountain Confederate Monumental Association), she solicited the support of the sculptor Gutzon Borglum and convinced the owners of the mountain to give the UDC access to the property. In addition to the carving of Confederate heroes, Plane wanted Ku Klux Klan members to appear in the design.

... From 1953 to 1955 Mabel Sessions Dennis served as president general of the national UDC. Born in De Soto, in Sumter County, she held many positions in the group before leading the national organization. During her administration she organized the national [General] Children of the Confederacy. Comprising thousands of members today, the organization inducts children under the age of eighteen who can provide proof that they are descendants of honorable Confederate soldiers. The membership creed states a "desire to perpetuate, in love and honor, the heroic deeds of those who enlisted in the Confederate Services" and "teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is, that the War Between the States was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery)."​

From the UDC's youth indoctrination program the Children of the Confederacy reference above and their 2016 newsletter:
>> Minutes were published before the recommendation was adopted at the 2015 UDC General Convention. The phrase “. . . nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery . . .” has been deleted from the Creed. <<

Note the date --- all of FIVE years ago. This was the UDC creed until 2015, more than a hundred years after they started running around feverishly putting up statues, rewriting schoolbooks and indoctrinating children.

There you go, FOUR MORE historians and THREE citations of UDC personnel, references to three more PLUS its own publications.

That enough authority for your wangly ass to go to?

My point was not that she was not qualified to speak, but that Appealing to Authority is a logical fallacy and her argument was weak.

My opinion is backed up by history. The policy of reconciliation and the way the South has been a valuable and patriotic part of American, instead of a restive and troublesome conquered territory is well known.

How odd that you try to bring up a "logical fallacy" -- built on another fallacy (cherrypicking) by committing another one --- the old "Everybody Knows", argumentum ad populum.

Oh and good luck making the case that a tenured Professor with a PhD is a "weak" source.

So there you are, it's a bit long so you've got a lot of deleting and ing to do, better get cracking.

Dismissed.

The UDC, was founded in 1894, and is still in operation. I bet if you spent the time and money, you could find just as much "evidence" of members who were Stalinist Marxist, wanting a Workers Paradise.

Don't need to. There's no such thing.

It would not mean that the southerns today, who support the statues they put up, are marxists, any more than a few examples of overlap with the klan means that the people that support the historical statues TODAY, are racist.

AGAIN --- there's no such thing. Reductio ad absurdum is as silly the second time as it was the first. And then you're trying to pervert the time tense of my history from past to present. Again, can't deal with the facts as I laid them out so you have to invent new ones.

And MY point, was not that everyone knows it, but citing the documented history of reconciliation and the last 150 years of the South being a loyal part of America.

Do you really need me to literally document that? Tell me what part, and I will.

I'm not interested in your point unless it's relevant here.

My point is relevant, because it is why the nation as a whole is fine with the memorials.

Because they are not seen as celebrating racism or treason.

How have you not learned this?

You have a lot of damn gall to suggest I "haven't learned this" -- the WHOLE POINT here is that this intensive propaganda campaign DID work, for generations. That's why they're not seen for what they are --- they were whitewashed by a disinformation campaign that was unfortunately effective. Hell it's still working on you RIGHT NOW.

 

[Correll]

Why? Do you care what they say? Or are you just being a prick?

You've got no polls. Thanks for proving that you lied about it. Sad for you.

All I asked was, if you actually cared about them. a YES, was all I was asking for.


But, as I suspected, you were just following your troll play book.

You said there were polls that said that "most Americans support the historical statues"....and you cannot produce even one of those polls.....and then you name-call when asked to prove that these polls actually exist outside your own head. A rational person can tell you lied. Sad for you.

I did say that. But I dont' believe that you care about them, so why are you asking for a link to them?


It seems like you are just being a troll boy, and asking me, to get some type of pathetic "win" by making me do what you want.


I'm not interested in playing such a silly game, with something like you.

So let's recap the last few rants.
"RW called for whites to be enslaved" or whatever it was --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.
"Polls say most whatevers support statues" --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.
"Nobody had a problem with the Lost Cause propaganda for decades" --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.

A pattern I smell.

1. No, RW called for whites to be oppressed, not enslaved. And he is right here, so you can ask him.

2. That is what I heard. No need to post them, because no one cares about what they say.

3. I've already pointed out to you, that what we are discussing is not the "Lost Cause", so, why are you lying?

 

[Mr Natural]

I can see that you would not want to celebrate such ancestors if they were your ancestors.

Correct!

I’d be ashamed and embarrassed of them.

 

[Correll]

Don't know, don't care, doesn't change the fact that you are singling out Southern Whites and treating them differently than every other group.

That makes no sense. I am pretty sure most Southern whites don't give a damn about honoring traitors of the Confederacy.

Polls I've heard are that most American support the historical statues, your spin not withstanding.

Post a couple of them.

Why? YOu don't care. You've made that obvious. You are just being a troll.


You want to post them, go crazy.

You claimed there were polls...there aren't...you lied. Is that a cultural thing?

Who said there aren't?

And you have been clear that you don't care, so why are you pretending to care if they are posted?

 

[Pogo]

You've got no polls. Thanks for proving that you lied about it. Sad for you.

All I asked was, if you actually cared about them. a YES, was all I was asking for.


But, as I suspected, you were just following your troll play book.

You said there were polls that said that "most Americans support the historical statues"....and you cannot produce even one of those polls.....and then you name-call when asked to prove that these polls actually exist outside your own head. A rational person can tell you lied. Sad for you.

I did say that. But I dont' believe that you care about them, so why are you asking for a link to them?


It seems like you are just being a troll boy, and asking me, to get some type of pathetic "win" by making me do what you want.


I'm not interested in playing such a silly game, with something like you.

So let's recap the last few rants.
"RW called for whites to be enslaved" or whatever it was --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.
"Polls say most whatevers support statues" --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.
"Nobody had a problem with the Lost Cause propaganda for decades" --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.

A pattern I smell.

1. No, RW called for whites to be oppressed, not enslaved. And he is right here, so you can ask him.

2. That is what I heard. No need to post them, because no one cares about what they say.

3. I've already pointed out to you, that what we are discussing is not the "Lost Cause", so, why are you lying?

1. NOBODY needs to ask him what you asserted -- YOU need to prove it.

2. As in #1, if you want it considered YOU need to prove it. Again, YOUR assertion.

3. You've already deleted mass quantities of evidence posted for you but AGAIN that doesn't mean it was never there.

 

[Correll]

Back southerners trump the rest of America, including the actual soldiers that fought and defeated the Confederacy?

Based on what exactly and why are they not bound by the principles of Multiculturalism?

"back southerners"?

And tell us how many of those actual soldiers are still around for us to ask.....

None of them, of course. But they made their position on the issue clear, back when they were alive.


Obviously.

Think about the folks who erected these statues, created these monuments, named streets and towns after these traitors and racists. It was children and grand children of the Confederate trash.

Why are you so full of hate towards these people?

Why were they so full of hate towards black folks? Why should people today honor symbols of hate?

They are not symbols of hate. They are harmless symbols of regional pride.


You seem to be the one seething with hate today.

 

[rightwinger]

You've got no polls. Thanks for proving that you lied about it. Sad for you.

All I asked was, if you actually cared about them. a YES, was all I was asking for.


But, as I suspected, you were just following your troll play book.

You said there were polls that said that "most Americans support the historical statues"....and you cannot produce even one of those polls.....and then you name-call when asked to prove that these polls actually exist outside your own head. A rational person can tell you lied. Sad for you.

I did say that. But I dont' believe that you care about them, so why are you asking for a link to them?


It seems like you are just being a troll boy, and asking me, to get some type of pathetic "win" by making me do what you want.


I'm not interested in playing such a silly game, with something like you.

So let's recap the last few rants.
"RW called for whites to be enslaved" or whatever it was --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.
"Polls say most whatevers support statues" --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.
"Nobody had a problem with the Lost Cause propaganda for decades" --- yet you don't have to present any evidence of it.

A pattern I smell.

1. No, RW called for whites to be oppressed, not enslaved. And he is right here, so you can ask him.

2. That is what I heard. No need to post them, because no one cares about what they say.

3. I've already pointed out to you, that what we are discussing is not the "Lost Cause", so, why are you lying?

Link or admit you are lying

 

[Correll]

RW and I have had long discussions about our view of the future. He was pretty clear in his desire to see whites discriminated against by the coming minority majority and he was shocked when I pointed out that, whites were unlikely to just take it.


Indeed, as events lent credibility to my views, he broke and become the troll you see in him today.

You sound afraid of becoming a minority? Why would that be? Could it be because of this country's history of not treating minorities well?

Bigger than that. More the general way that minorities are treated everywhere, plus the hate I already see from people like RW and you.


It bodes ill for the future.

"The hate"....this from the person who name-calls people when he (or is it she?) doesn't get his way...........and cries about being picked on......

Funny, you could have denied hating me. But, I guess there is a limit to how stupid, even you want to look.


My point stands.


IN this multicultural society we have build, all cultures are supposed to be able to live in harmony and peace and tolerance.


But, some cultures are less tolerated than others. As you and rw are demonstrating with your hate.

Over a 150 years later and Confederates and their racist fanboys continue lying when faced with righteousness..

Maybe if God was on the side of the Confederates, the truth wouldn't sting you so much....

YOu can shove your race baiting up your ass, fucktard.

 

[Mr Natural]

They are not symbols of hate. They are harmless symbols of regional pride.


You seem to be the one seething with hate today.

Treason is nothing to be proud of.

 

[bodecea]

Tens of millions of black Southerners have always been offended by Confederate celebrations

They are finally being listened to

Back southerners trump the rest of America, including the actual soldiers that fought and defeated the Confederacy?

Based on what exactly and why are they not bound by the principles of Multiculturalism?

"back southerners"?

And tell us how many of those actual soldiers are still around for us to ask.....

None of them, of course. But they made their position on the issue clear, back when they were alive.


Obviously.

Think about the folks who erected these statues, created these monuments, named streets and towns after these traitors and racists. It was children and grand children of the Confederate trash.

Why are you so full of hate towards these people?

You seem to like to project hate..........................a lot.

 

[bodecea]

Why do we never hear about Northern pride?

We won and we moved on

The south never got over their racist origins

Maybe it was a mistake to let the leaders off so easily.

 

[bodecea]

You sound afraid of becoming a minority? Why would that be? Could it be because of this country's history of not treating minorities well?

Bigger than that. More the general way that minorities are treated everywhere, plus the hate I already see from people like RW and you.


It bodes ill for the future.

"The hate"....this from the person who name-calls people when he (or is it she?) doesn't get his way...........and cries about being picked on......

Funny, you could have denied hating me. But, I guess there is a limit to how stupid, even you want to look.


My point stands.


IN this multicultural society we have build, all cultures are supposed to be able to live in harmony and peace and tolerance.


But, some cultures are less tolerated than others. As you and rw are demonstrating with your hate.

Over a 150 years later and Confederates and their racist fanboys continue lying when faced with righteousness..

Maybe if God was on the side of the Confederates, the truth wouldn't sting you so much....

YOu can shove your race baiting up your ass, fucktard.

See? There we go again.

 

[rightwinger]

Back southerners trump the rest of America, including the actual soldiers that fought and defeated the Confederacy?

Based on what exactly and why are they not bound by the principles of Multiculturalism?

"back southerners"?

And tell us how many of those actual soldiers are still around for us to ask.....

None of them, of course. But they made their position on the issue clear, back when they were alive.


Obviously.

Think about the folks who erected these statues, created these monuments, named streets and towns after these traitors and racists. It was children and grand children of the Confederate trash.

Why are you so full of hate towards these people?

You seem to like to project hate..........................a lot.

He is in full meltdown today

 

[Correll]

Tens of millions of Southerns do not support historical statues because they are are racist. You are smearing good people to justify YOUR RACISM.

Tens of millions of black Southerners have always been offended by Confederate celebrations

They are finally being listened to

Back southerners trump the rest of America, including the actual soldiers that fought and defeated the Confederacy?

Based on what exactly and why are they not bound by the principles of Multiculturalism?

Blacks in the Confederacy always had an awkward position. 4 million out of 9 million in the Confederacy were slaves.

Yet afterwards, nobody cared what they thought about the Confederacy

You made a point about TODAY'S blacks.


I asked you why they are more important than the rest of the nation and why they are not bound by the principles of multiculturalism.


Your reply did nothing to explain your point about modern blacks.

We are talking about today’s blacks who feel no loyalty to the confederacy. Neither do most whites

Yes. Neither of us are confused about that. So, please stop discussing it.


You made a point about TODAY'S blacks.


I asked you why they are more important than the rest of the nation and why they are not bound by the principles of multiculturalism.

 

[Correll]

The one that treats white southerns with the same respect they treat the rest of the nation, you racist prick.

Agree

Republicans treat southern racists the same as American patriots who fought for freedom

Tens of millions of Southerns do not support historical statues because they are are racist. You are smearing good people to justify YOUR RACISM.

Actually, hundreds of monuments, not to mention rewritten history books, were put there to smear good people to justify THE LOST CAUSE CULT'S RACISM.

Fixed it for ya.

I've always heard that the monuments were put up to celebrate the service of the soldiers fighting for what they saw as their duty.

And now you're forced to consider that what you heard was deliberately mendacious propaganda.
And here we are.

I don't feel forced to consider that. It seemed reasonable to me then, and it seems reasonable to me now.


Where did you get the idea I was forced to do anything?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

You sound afraid of becoming a minority? Why would that be? Could it be because of this country's history of not treating minorities well?

Bigger than that. More the general way that minorities are treated everywhere, plus the hate I already see from people like RW and you.


It bodes ill for the future.

"The hate"....this from the person who name-calls people when he (or is it she?) doesn't get his way...........and cries about being picked on......

Funny, you could have denied hating me. But, I guess there is a limit to how stupid, even you want to look.


My point stands.


IN this multicultural society we have build, all cultures are supposed to be able to live in harmony and peace and tolerance.


But, some cultures are less tolerated than others. As you and rw are demonstrating with your hate.

Over a 150 years later and Confederates and their racist fanboys continue lying when faced with righteousness..

Maybe if God was on the side of the Confederates, the truth wouldn't sting you so much....

YOu can shove your race baiting up your ass, fucktard.

No need to lash out at me....

Address all of the lying you have been doing on this post

You have lied on at least 1 or 2 people on this post and when asked for proof -- you deflect and name call....

But the names I am called by a liar doesn't bother me at all...after all, you are liar, even your insults are disingenuous...

Now address all of these lies you keep telling

 

[rightwinger]

Tens of millions of black Southerners have always been offended by Confederate celebrations

They are finally being listened to

Back southerners trump the rest of America, including the actual soldiers that fought and defeated the Confederacy?

Based on what exactly and why are they not bound by the principles of Multiculturalism?

Blacks in the Confederacy always had an awkward position. 4 million out of 9 million in the Confederacy were slaves.

Yet afterwards, nobody cared what they thought about the Confederacy

You made a point about TODAY'S blacks.


I asked you why they are more important than the rest of the nation and why they are not bound by the principles of multiculturalism.


Your reply did nothing to explain your point about modern blacks.

We are talking about today’s blacks who feel no loyalty to the confederacy. Neither do most whites

Yes. Neither of us are confused about that. So, please stop discussing it.


You made a point about TODAY'S blacks.


I asked you why they are more important than the rest of the nation and why they are not bound by the principles of multiculturalism.

The people of Virginia have spoken

They don’t want a Confederate Holiday