US Drawing Up Plans To Sink the Russian Black Sea Fleet: Ukrainian Official

[beagle9]

It's not complicated at all. Russia and Ukraine did not stop playing nicely with each other, Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin wanted to reconstruct the USSR. Ukraine was still playing nicely and Russia invaded. See, it's simple.

Here's what Putin said in 2005, a few years before he invaded Georgia.

Russian President Vladimir Putin told the nation Monday that the collapse of the Soviet empire “was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century” and had fostered separatist movements inside Russia.

In his annual state of the nation address to parliament and the country’s top political leaders, Putin said the Soviet collapse also was a tragedy for Russians.


“First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,” Putin said. “As for the Russian people, it became a genuine tragedy. Tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory.

“The epidemic of collapse has spilled over to Russia itself,” he said, referring to separatist movements such as those in Chechnya.

Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'

In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”

www.nbcnews.com

Putin says the invasion was an act of self defense because Ukrainian Nazis were conspiring with NATO to break Russia up into little pieces. Are you unsure if that is true?

If yes, suppose Russia takes Ukraine and then claims some bs pretext of self defense for invading Poland, would that confuse you, too?

All historical context, but then we live in the now where business, capital, trade, and modernization and the betterment of all people takes precedence mostly over nostalgic reasonings by leaders yearning for the so called good ole days..... Putin wanting to go back in time where things weren't as good, ummm is just weird.

So who betrayed who when it came to playing nice, being fair in trade, understanding each other's culture's be it in tolerance of etc ??? Usually when things are great, war is the last thing on nation's mind's, and is this really about being nostalgic in Putin's mind ??? Could be, because if looking back we saw some crazy stuff go down in world history concerning these types of things over time.

Why does Putin think that desolving the USSR was a mistake, when such a huge territory would be like the Roman's attempting to hold on to it's huge expanse, and holding on as Putin as it's evil emperor ??

 

[Donald H]

We are getting a heady dose of what Biden the numbskull is all
about.Not just the act of Poking the bear.But to usher-in a full scale
attempt to start a World War.There is now no doubt about that.
The Mainstream media like all other things is fully behind the
Numbskull Biden.Like they were with all things anti-Trump.
NOT for the betterment of We the People.The exact opposite.
To poke and play with us as if some kind of insect.
Ask yerselves if Ukraine was so upstanding then how did it get so
Corrupt they weren't able to get into NATO.Plus why did they hire
on Hunter Biden.Russia was no problem under Trump.
Not until some senile career pol was able to steal an election
was Russia treated as if the New Bogeyman on the block.
The last week the latest Bogeyman is Elon Musk.
For daring to point on reality.That Biden and his Regime
are Hate Mongers.

That's all true for Biden, just as it's all true for America. Biden's war is just a lot more dangerous and careless.

At least Trump had reasons to not start a war against Russia.

 

[toomuchtime_]

All historical context, but then we live in the now where business, capital, trade, and modernization and the betterment of all people takes precedence mostly over nostalgic reasonings by leaders yearning for the so called good ole days..... Putin wanting to go back in time where things weren't as good, ummm is just weird.

So who betrayed who when it came to playing nice, being fair in trade, understanding each other's culture's be it in tolerance of etc ??? Usually when things are great, war is the last thing on nation's mind's, and is this really about being nostalgic in Putin's mind ??? Could be, because if looking back we saw some crazy stuff go down in world history concerning these types of things over time.

Why does Putin think that desolving the USSR was a mistake, when such a huge territory would be like the Roman's attempting to hold on to it's huge expanse, and holding on as Putin as it's evil emperor ??

It's not nostalgia, it's a statement of intent. In 2005 he bemoans the fact that all Russian speaking people don't live within Russia's borders and in 2014 and 2022 he states his intent to liberate Russian speaking Ukrainians from Ukraine. What we are looking at is clearly Russian imperialism in Russia's invasion of Chechnya, of Georgia and of Ukraine and Russia's demand that NATO withdraw from all of eastern Europe, which Putin clearly believes belongs to Russia. There is no other rational explanation of his actions.

 

[Donald H]

It won't lead to WW3, but what would happen next would be a frightening escalation. My guess would be destruction of the Russian fleet in Crimea, and a new set of rules regarding air space over the entire country of Ukraine.

The destruction of the Russian fleet in the Crimea can be easily accomplished in my opinion. I can't imagine, with my limited knowledge of the details, that any fleet can be defended against another highly capable country.

The details of the escalation are what will be frightening.

If an equal response against the US fleet was the answer from Russia, I'm not optimistic that WW3 could be avoided.

The discussion on the details should take place in order for Americans to understand the realities of Biden's/America's war. The main purpose would be to balance out America's 'confidence' propaganda effort. There are far too many not understanding the possible consequences.

 

[Donald H]

All historical context, but then we live in the now where business, capital, trade, and modernization and the betterment of all people takes precedence mostly over nostalgic reasonings by leaders yearning for the so called good ole days..... Putin wanting to go back in time where things weren't as good, ummm is just weird.

So who betrayed who when it came to playing nice, being fair in trade, understanding each other's culture's be it in tolerance of etc ??? Usually when things are great, war is the last thing on nation's mind's, and is this really about being nostalgic in Putin's mind ??? Could be, because if looking back we saw some crazy stuff go down in world history concerning these types of things over time.

Why does Putin think that desolving the USSR was a mistake, when such a huge territory would be like the Roman's attempting to hold on to it's huge expanse, and holding on as Putin as it's evil emperor ??

Discussion is good even though the facts are being varnished by American misinformation.

The world's aggressor since the end of WW2 is America and that can't be brushed off.

It can't be more obvious if we take into account Russia being guilty of war crimes. It's as if America's wars against Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and about 37 more didn't happen!!

Discussion is good. At least it's been carelessly acknowledged in your conversation that this is America's war against Russia.

Just that fact alone is damaging to the 'confidence' propaganda that promoted the idea that there will be no consequences.

 

[eagle1462010]

Was the USSR a super powerful nation in the eye's of Russians after defeating the Nazi's in world war two, and upon it then building itself up into a super power that had nuclear deterrents as a means to say to the world never again ???

So yes after slipping over a long period of time, and then giving up a lot of what made it so powerful after world war two, then one can imagine how easy it is for a leader to look out into the surrounding situation, and to think to himself that Russia could be getting into dangerous territory if it doesn't shore up it's defences and sovereignty once more, and especially as it struggled against Ukraine within it's boundaries during the 2014 out break of war between Russian separatist and Ukranian nationalist that is still on going within the old Soviet Union territories.

Not sure what Putin's mind is thinking, and us cutting off communication's with him has complicated that even more.

Doesn't change what Stalin was and why we were stuck in Europe since WWII. We have fought each other via proxy Wars since then. This is nothing new. We have every right to maintain NATO and it is a Defensive alliance..........Ukraine left the USSR as did many nations. They don't want back in. Putin wants a return to glory. And he wants the Black Sea. Ukraine doesn't want to be ruled by him so they fight.

We arm them same as we have been since WWII.

Russia isn't our friend...........and they want us destroyed along with China............The back door they are ditching the dollar to give us the GREAT RESET. They are part of it.

So screw them. They don't hit NATO then we will not have to hit them back.

 

[eagle1462010]

I hope not. Why does humanity need a new strait? The Panama Canal is enough.
View attachment 648200

Then pull the trigger Ivan.............Tired of your fucking threats.......you only say Nuke us because you can't win.

We are pissing ourselves in fear..........It's terrible. Oh well..........enjoy the loses in Odessa.

 

[Donald H]

All historical context, but then we live in the now where business, capital, trade, and modernization and the betterment of all people takes precedence mostly over nostalgic reasonings by leaders yearning for the so called good ole days..... Putin wanting to go back in time where things weren't as good, ummm is just weird.

So who betrayed who when it came to playing nice, being fair in trade, understanding each other's culture's be it in tolerance of etc ??? Usually when things are great, war is the last thing on nation's mind's, and is this really about being nostalgic in Putin's mind ??? Could be, because if looking back we saw some crazy stuff go down in world history concerning these types of things over time.

Why does Putin think that desolving the USSR was a mistake, when such a huge territory would be like the Roman's attempting to hold on to it's huge expanse, and holding on as Putin as it's evil emperor ??

Putin thinks that dissolving the Soviet Union was a mistake because it's left Russia more open to US aggression. His suspicions are backed up by the fact that US promises of no further encroachment on Russia's borders turned out to be lies by the US.

We're expected to believe that America is bombing small countries throughout the world for altruistic reasons.

It's no mystery why the American people would buy into those lies.

 

[eagle1462010]

American made weapons and Russian made weapons are sold to anyone that will purchase them. Now what they do or how they use those weapon's is on the country that purchased them.

Of course there is a rival between our interest in the world and Russia's interest in the world, so as long as that exist there will always be proxy wars waged through the arming of countries that fight those proxy wars in regards to the various ideologies being opposed all across the world.

Wars have been fought in the world forever. Europe had never ending Wars forever. Actually NATO has delayed that for a very long time.

 

[eagle1462010]

Russia gave back to Germany what belonged to Germany, so it's not like it would desire to take back east Germany, but Ukraine is something different because it's on Russia's border, and for some reason the Russians and Ukranian's stopped playing it nice with each other... Betrayal is amongst the charge's, but who has betrayed who, and what does oil and gas lines have to do with the mess, and why did Russia have to build and re-route it's oil and gas lines in the upper region with the Northstream pipe line etc ??

How complicated is this crazy mess, and whose telling the truth in it all ??

Poland is on it's border. Turkey is on it's border. Finland and many others who fled the USSR.

It's on my border is a BS excuse to invade.

And POLAND ISN'T ATTACKED ON IT'S BORDER because Russia is staring down the barrel of a gun there. That is WHY NATO EXISTS.

 

[Donald H]

Doesn't change what Stalin was and why we were stuck in Europe since WWII. We have fought each other via proxy Wars since then.

Establishing that it's been America's proxy wars since WW2 is an important first step.

Stalin's contribution to WW2 and the fact that Russia turned the tide against Nazi Germany can be window dressing in the discussions that are needed now.

America's/Biden's propaganda has instilled false confidence in the minds of Americans. Understand that the reason for this is to ensure that Vietnam era protesting isn't condusive to carrying on a war that has such huge possible consequences.

 

[eagle1462010]

Establishing that it's been America's proxy wars since WW2 is an important first step.

As you again play the America Sucks Card........go back to Canada.

We stood the line since WWII because OF RUSSIA..........Wars were fought around the world ........some good and some bad but much was both sides.....BOTH...in a Cold War turning hot in proxy countries.

Why should I sit here and apologize to a country that had to build walls to keep people in.?

 

[Donald H]

As you again play the America Sucks Card........go back to Canada.

We stood the line since WWII because OF RUSSIA..........Wars were fought around the world ........some good and some bad but much was both sides.....BOTH...in a Cold War turning hot in proxy countries.

Why should I sit here and apologize to a country that had to build walls to keep people in.?

You have your own anger to deal with my friend.

Establishing that it's been America's proxy wars since WW2 is an important first step.

 

[eagle1462010]

You have your own anger to deal with my friend.

Establishing that it's been America's proxy wars since WW2 is an important first step.

You push anti American BS here every day...........and it's BS...........In regards to Russia...........screw them. They are after land while we have a weak ass POTUS.

 

[Donald H]

Then pull the trigger Ivan.............Tired of your fucking threats.......you only say Nuke us because you can't win.

We are pissing ourselves in fear..........It's terrible. Oh well..........enjoy the loses in Odessa.

The 'confidence' propaganda has propped most Americans up enough to be able to not fear!

They are the shallow minded and the more informed are the ones pissing themselves as you suggest.

You're starting to get it and that's the reason why you're demonstrating that you're among the pissers.

You can't run and hide from this discussion now, you're committed by your comment on America's proxy wars.

 

[Donald H]

You push anti American BS here every day...........and it's BS...........In regards to Russia...........screw them. They are after land while we have a weak ass POTUS.

Russia is indeed after land and they have specified their objectives.

Biden might be seen as weak but your comments make it clear that you at least understand the caution for not poking the bear.

 

[eagle1462010]

The 'confidence' propaganda has propped most Americans up enough to be able to not fear!

They are the shallow minded and the more informed are the ones pissing themselves as you suggest.

You're starting to get it and that's the reason why you're demonstrating that you're among the pissers.

You can't run and hide from this discussion now, you're committed by your comment on America's proxy wars.

STFU Canuck. Wars have been fought forever. And both Russia and the United States have been in on some.

Happens in the big leagues............But you are supposedly from Canada and are terrified of HONKING........OH WELL.

 

[eagle1462010]

Russia is indeed after land and they have specified their objectives.

Biden might be seen as weak but your comments make it clear that you at least understand the caution for not poking the bear.

I also understand that there is a line they better not cross............and we as in the past will make shit hard for them in Ukraine..........

 

[Donald H]

STFU Canuck. Wars have been fought forever. And both Russia and the United States have been in on some.

Happens in the big leagues............But you are supposedly from Canada and are terrified of HONKING........OH WELL.

Thanks! You're done but I got more than I thought I could get out of you.

 

[eagle1462010]

Thanks! You're done but I got more than I thought I could get out of you.

You are a legend in your own mind..........and all over the board you post anything you can to say America sucks...........anyone can go see your posts to see it.

Oh well.

I'm still at Fuck Putin as I see him for what he is.